Imagine the 70s without brian eno and krautrock

imagine the 70s without brian eno and krautrock

Other urls found in this thread:

tanika-poemeelectronique.blogspot.com/
stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/opus-8-gesang-der-junglinge.html
youtube.com/watch?v=zv-I-CNv3JI
rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=1970s&genre_include=0&include_child_genres=1&genres=ambient, krautrock&include_child_genres_chk=1&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries=
rateyourmusic.com/genre/Post-Punk/
imdb.com/rg/an_share/title/title/tt0236216/
youtu.be/-nds8KOUTy4
onairwithryan.iheart.com/content/2017-07-05-watch-kendrick-lamar-rank-his-albums-from-favorite-to-least-favorite/
youtu.be/RuXIMQGqXGk
twitter.com/AnonBabble

It would be much better because then people would look to the likes of Stockhausen, Varese, Beatles' Revolution 9, early Klaus Schulze/Tangerine Dream instead of the watered down memebient we got.

Bowie would have never released a good album

Imagine the 70s if George Clinton and Sly Stone didn't get intimidated by the Black Panthers and kept making the music they wanted to actually make and didn't pander to anyone

This is a point. We got new age rather than great ambient

This. Brian Eno is a dank meme at best.

where should i start with stockhausen and varese?

I know you're not talking shit about New Age.

Glam would have lasted forever and David Johansson would have been the new messiah

>1/1
>not one of the greatest pieces of the 70s

Ahhh, the death of rock with its peak, absolutely none worth listening to after that

>Rock stays good and doesn't get infected with new wave and post punk cancer

Sign me the fuck up

story?

>40 years of shitty blues rock
Yeah, nah.

Read the wiki on There's A Riot

you got a lot of nerve, kid

Stockhausen: Gesang der Jünglinge
Varese: Poème électronique

That is, in terms of electronic music at least. I would also otherwise recommend Gruppen from Stockhausen and Ionisation by Varese.

Start with the Varese first it's infinitely easier to digest.

Some things to read/watch that might help explain what's going on if you're completely unfamiliar with the music:

Poème électronique: tanika-poemeelectronique.blogspot.com/

Gesang der Jünglinge:stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/opus-8-gesang-der-junglinge.html

youtube.com/watch?v=zv-I-CNv3JI

just read it
literally nothing

post punk was a great cancer tho: it killed blues.
a great achievement.

>Watered down
>Mentions Revolution 9
You don't see the problem here, do you?

>all this Eno roasting
You guys are fucking plebs you know that?
PLEBS!

>and the Black Panther Party, with which Stone had become associated, was demanding he make his music more militant and reflective of the black power movement, that he replace Greg Errico and Jerry Martini with black instrumentalists, and replace manager David Kapralik
Damn

what's your fucking problem with new age?

Same thing happened with George and Maggot Brain, those fucking scumbags murdered his passion

ok
rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=1970s&genre_include=0&include_child_genres=1&genres=ambient, krautrock&include_child_genres_chk=1&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries=

It's not the most in-depth work of sound collage, sure, but it's one of the most well known and mainstream takes on avant garde music of the time. Also it's not memebient stuff and would've been the gateway to the real crazy stuff.

>Post punk
>PiL, The Pop Group, Minutemen, Pere Ubu, Glenn Branca, Nick Cave
>Cancer

Why are you so against ambient music? Not every ambient album is ambient techno and IDM with ambient elements.

Because that early ambient and krautrock codified that popular music forms of electronic music have to fit the minimalism structure instead of having the genre be more free to use whatever structures it wants to work with. This is especially annoying since the structure didn't encourage enough interaction with a wide variety of timbres like what electronic music is good with, and that's why the genre feels so oversaturated today even though it shouldn't be.

>gang of four, wire, joy division, television

they're great too.

>>gang of four, wire, joy division, television
LOL

Post-Punk is pretentious garbage.

What does krautrock have to do with popular music? You know they wanted to escape schlagers and any notions of western popular music I'm sure. And are you also implying that krautrock bands championed ambient music and didn't allow room for further improvement and development? We're not talking about shoegaze here.

Do you have an argument you want to express or are you posting without your trip Montie?

You're right. Cream, Zeppelin, and 70s Stones are so much better.

Can you fucking plebs stop using "post-punk" like it's a fucking genre? Christ

Of course.

Post-Punk sucked the energy from the punk movement and made it into artsy bullshit. If hardcore hadn't come along punk would have died.

Krautrock is still popular music no matter how hard they tried to get away from the perception. Stuff like Future Days, Faust IV, and Neu! helped codify minimalist structure just as much as Eno did.

>b-but Tago Mago side 2!
A brave effort in the tracks where it does happen, but everyone just cares about the subpar repetitive groove jams.
>m-muh Faust I!
Only the electronic parts, the rest is also minimalist structure rock.

Oh yes, let's ruin a potentially positive thread by playing word games until the bump limit.
rateyourmusic.com/genre/Post-Punk/

>muh three chord fast rock

Oh, so no one should dare to elevate and improve on music genres? Or otherwise they're considered try hard wanking schlock, right?

Ambient is the music for housekeepers

Punk rock perfected the energy of rock n roll that made it such a hit and so powerful. Post-punk added aspects of other musical forms and watered them down. Thus you get watered down aspects of *insert genre a particular post-punk band messed with* due to lack of exploration of those genres and watered down punk as it's never as energetic as punk rock.

I remember that response from other bait threads. Thanks for confirming you're not worth being taken seriously.

Eno is for plebs. That's the whole point of his music.

Who cares? 70s punk was boring and derivative of itself.

Imagine 2000s without Linkin park

t. Nu Males

t. housekeeper

>muh epic meme buzzwords

>rym
Fucking hell mate you could at least try

>Post punk
>Watered down
I hate to break it to you, but presumably one of your favorite three chord energetic bands were a manufactured boy band and a project of the McLaren. That's talked about in the official Sex Pistols documentary.
imdb.com/rg/an_share/title/title/tt0236216/
And here it is from the horse's mouth:
youtu.be/-nds8KOUTy4
So much for authenticity, artistic credibility and being anti-establishment, aye buddy?

Of Malcom McLaren*

Imagine the 80s without synths

Post-punk is objectively more interesting than punk

Imagine the 70s without rock

What are you even talking about? It's as if you think ambient music achieved high chart placement.

It did

Sure, some of them were students of Stockhausen, although not avant-garde classical composers themselves. But those bands didn't have hit singles, nor did they intend to. Is every genre besides classical music popular and therefore artistically blank music now?

>brings up back story instead of the actual qualities of the music itself
Thanks for proving me right.
Nah, post-punk is objectively a jack of all trades, master of none. There's no other genre of music that's more straight visceral than the main punk rock and its subgenres. Post-punk tries to cop from actual cerebrally rewarding genres like free jazz, musique concrete, minimalism, etc. but is nowhere near as good at exploring those ideas as those genres themselves are. I would rather listen to punk rock and those genres than post-punk garbage.

Damn. I'm convinced now. Thanks for opening my eyes to the truth. This is hopefully the last (You) you're getting.

>those bands didn't have hit singles
wrong

yeah and it's still better than punk

>has no clue about the formal definition of popular music
Yeah, most stuff outside what's labeled as "classical", quite a lot of jazz, traditional folk music, and their ethnic equivalents aren't popular music. The rest are.

How did I prove your right? The world isn't black and white. Even John Lydon and Devoto of all people hated punk and the bands they were in before (Punk Britannia BBC documentary part 3).

Post-punk is punk rock for art students

Sure, if you're a pussy who can't handle real complex music nor actually energetic visceral music. Post-punk isn't good at anything it does.

Care to provide a better source? But you said it, that's all we need, right?

>STILL relies on aspects outside the music itself to make his point
Jesus christ, how fucking pretentious can you be? Look at everyone else in this topic and how they are making their "X is superior" point talking about the actual music itself. All you have done is link to what people say about certain things connected to the music rather than talk about the music itself.

I know which genres are classified as popular music, I was making a sarcastic remark. And even those lines are getting blurred with time. Many progressive rock subgenres are getting recognized by academia for example.

But all you've said is - I like punk, every other genre I don't like sucks. And I've provided proof of people who've made a genre of music you enjoy later dismissing it and washing their hands of it.

Where did I ask for a source? Linking to a rym page with "GENRE: POST-PUNK" isn't a very convincing argument.
"Post-punk" is a subculture movement comprised of massively varying styles of music that have little to do with each other and weren't labelled as such until after the fact, instead usually being grouped with New Wave.
It's utterly useless using "post-punk" as a genre because there is no common factor in post-punk music.

That sucks that it got so heated but fresh was at least in the same league as riot desu. Its as if those niggas never heard everyday people.

>And I've provided proof of people who've made a genre of music you enjoy later dismissing it and washing their hands of it.
Appeal to authority fallacy.
>But all you've said is - I like punk, every other genre I don't like sucks.
No, I said that punk rock is known for being the most visceral form of music out there, and post-punk waters that down. In return post-punk adds elements of avant garde classical/jazz/electronic or dub music or whatever, but it also offers watered down ideas in those genres, with a band like Pop Group unable to push the envelop full Ornette Coleman style. My argument is that post-punk is jack of all trades, master of none. Pay attention.

>Where did I ask for a source? Linking to a rym page with "GENRE: POST-PUNK" isn't a very convincing argument.
But taking your word for it is? That's why you're against providing any sources. Let's just stop derailing this thread by playing word games.

Because if you use your head a bit and read about the subculture it's not very difficult to reach that conclusion, I'm not making an academic argument.

>Appeal to authority fallacy
You are in such denial it's palpable. Whatever. And here you are, in the same breath, praising pushing the envelope musically and innovation, but still over romanticizing punk, even though some of its pioneers referred to it as "three chord trash".

fucking hell you are talking nonsense. in what way is pop group related to ornette coleman? why are you comparing them?

damn, 70's without Eno and Krautrock. That cuts off a lot of the more experimental stuff.

But still a decade loaded with greats in multiple genres: Kraftwerk, Marvin Gaye, Late-era Miles Davis. Dylan's Blood on The Tracks came out in the 70s, Neil Young, Sly & The Family Stone...I think we would survive.

>denial
Nope. It's literally appeal to authority because you bring zero logical thought behind anything you say. Just "oh, these guys said it sucks so it sucks".

Miles Davis hates his earlier stuff like Kind Of Blue well into his electric era.
Kendrick Lamar thinks his best record is DAMN.
Varg doesn't even like metal anymore.
Beefheart's favorite record of his own was Lick My Decals Off, Baby.

Oh, you want an example of a non-musician, what about Ray Bradbury saying that he literally wrote F451 because he hated TVs not because of the message that gives it the legendary status it has?

It doesn't matter what the artist thinks of their own work. We can only analyze the qualities of the work itself to come to any real conclusion.

Have you never listened to The Pop Group? Maybe go past Beyond Good And Evil. Oh wait, you probably haven't, because it's subpar free jazz on Y after that track.

Not him, but they had free jazz influences, although not being a jazz band and not fitting a particular genre classification either. But that's apparently not good enough for him.

kraftwerk started as a krautrock band

Kendrick thinks his best album is Section 80. Says it was, "him at his hungriest"

onairwithryan.iheart.com/content/2017-07-05-watch-kendrick-lamar-rank-his-albums-from-favorite-to-least-favorite/

>Nope. It's literally appeal to authority because you bring zero logical thought behind anything you say. Just "oh, these guys said it sucks so it sucks".
Are these not your posts? What are you even talking about? Are you deliberately being dense and not acknowledging contradictions in your arguments? Either way, punk rock is objectively a simplistic form of music, which took popular music back to its infancy. Power chords, I-IV-V chord progressions, songs are usually 2-3 minutes long, most songs are in 4/4 and songs are often simplistic in their predominantly verse-chorus form. These are not peaks of musical thought and experimentation as you're over romanticizing them to be. But in the same breath, you're praising innovation and a radical approach to music.

well i'll be DAMN-ed. It does tread the line between TPAB and GK;MC well. I prefer TPAB; DAMN probably 2nd. GK;MC sounds a lil dated desu.

thanks for the source mate.

>all these people defending babbs 1st "deep" genre
Truth is punk has attempted more than it is regularly perceived as and it's evolution has developed genres that aren't perceived as such

Denying the impact it had compared to a wave of artists that only lasted for 20 years is ignorance

No, I am not the first one of those two. And again you think it's just harmonic progression (muh three chords) but you aren't looking at performance/delivery style which is the most important innovation punk brought in just how fast and hard everything's played. That's where the radical innovation came from. Post-punk totally drops that in favor of something no different from what was already being done. But nope, it's gotta be muh three chords, right? Like I can't believe I am even having to explain this. Punk would sound exactly like rock n roll if it didn't do anything new at all based on the premises you set up.

Ah, much better.

So, the only innovation you accept is the one in BPM? Sure, here are Joe Pass and Oscar Peterson playing a mind bogglingly fast version of Donna Lee long before punk became a thing. So, what now? Do they "win" because they can play almost twice as fast as punk bands? I'm not sure I should even give you the benefit of the doubt of not attempting to discuss a delivery of a jazz standard and simplistic punk rock songs.
youtu.be/RuXIMQGqXGk
What's already been done before post punk? Did punk rock incorporate musique concrete, dub, funk and free jazz influences? I'm sure it magically did, because it's a genre you happen to enjoy. Are you aware of where I-IV-V chord progressions came from? Rock & roll and blues, just played at faster tempos in punk rock. Not to say pub rock paved the way for punk. That was a musical regression too, because songs from the 50's were played in majority of pubs in the UK and all in the same decade when some of the most sophisticated and innovative genres of rock music existed (progressive rock). I'm also sure, even though it's been recognized and analyzed by academia, that it's wankery and artistic schlock because you personally don't enjoy it and would label as a jack of all trades, but master of none. And again, you supposedly praise innovation in certain forms.

>Post-punk tries to cop from actual cerebrally rewarding genres like free jazz, musique concrete, minimalism, etc. but is nowhere near as good at exploring those ideas as those genres themselves are.

this must be bait

Refute it

>Marvin Gaye, Late-era Miles Davis. Dylan's Blood on The Tracks came out in the 70s, Neil Young, Sly & The Family Stone..

maybe only gaye is passable

Whateaver bring the internet faster is better

there are countless post punk bands (and they
are actually the most interesting) that never made any of those experimental genres: JD, cure, wire, etc.

>Whateaver bring the internet faster is better

Thats a better situation

What if computer 32bits soundcards existed widely at 80s and internet was pay per month unlimited internet like it is now

That link sounds nothing at all like punk rock. The fuck did I just say it's just BPM? Hell I even gave rock n roll as an example, and a lot of the early stuff wasn't that much if at all faster than that. Jfc you're mentally retarded.

>What's already been done before post punk?
Minimalist takes on rock? Done before. Free jazz in rock music? Done before. Dub style rhythms in rock music? Done before. Now I'll remind you that my initial argument had jack shit to do with innovation and YOU are the one that brought it up while I just wanted to talk about what the music itself is. I say that because personally "innovation" like post-punk is a regression because it achieves nothing.
>I'm also sure, even though it's been recognized and analyzed by academia
Is this a way to determine whether or not something's important? Because let me tell you there's far more musicology pieces on punk rock's cultural importance than any you can find analyzing post-punk or prog rock. All these attempts at making pop music complex is dumb, and will never really be analyzed much by academics because it isn't complex enough like classical to be analyzed musically nor is it as culturally important as punk or hip hop (bar The Beatles of course.)

>JD
Minimalist song structures.
>Cure
electronic music
>Wire
classical and electronic music