Super Bowl LI

So what is the sports media saying about the game? What is the concensus?

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I had no work yesterday so I pretty much watched ESPN all day. The general consensus is that Bill was alresdy the greatest coach ever and this game only distanced himself from the competition.
It's a pretty even split still on Brady though. Almost everyone is admitting he's the greatest QB ever as far as resumes go, but a lot of people still say if you were drafting a dream team, there would be many QBs you would pick over Brady. This will innevitably trigger Sup Forums of course, but I think it's a fair analysis.

Pundits are also split on whether the Falcons blew the game or the Patriots won it, though nobody is saying that the Pats win isn't legitimate.

There is no clear consensus on where the super bowl ranks. Everyone seems to admit it was historic (first OT, biggest comeback) but nobody is saying it's top 5 material or even the best Patriots owl.

I don't know why that would trigger anyone.
I watch as many games as I can every Sunday and it seems pretty clear to me that he's not the most athletically talented QB by a long shot but that doesn't mean he hasn't had the most success, and that's the metric that matters most.

>Following what ESPN tells you

I'm just answering OP's question.
I didn't say it was my opinion per se.

Just wrong. Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers are the only ones who possibly have the "skill" argument. Peypey is not a victim of some system issues, he's a choker.

Nah. I'd take plenty over him, but he's still the best due to his career.

>nobody is saying it's top 5 material or even the best Patriots owl.
the game was legit shit for 3 and a half quarters and only became relevant in the last 5 minutes

Guys i need to rape. I have a huge urge to rape my neighbors. I need help. Im going to lose control.

>americans

To each their own.
Ranking QBs is tough because they're so reliant on their coach and recieving core.
Brady is the greatest in my book, but not the "best" at the position if that makes sense.

Who? No one else could have methodically picked apart a defense like that. This must just be some meme "athleticism" argument. Tom Brady has thrown for 50 touchdowns in a season I hope you realize. He's not a system QB, he's a genius.

Brady has had an average or worse receiving core for most of his career. When he had a great one he threw for 50 touchdowns and went 16-0 in the regular season and was the luckiest catch of all time away from a super bowl and a perfect season. Belichick is a defensive minded coach.

>So what is the sports media saying about the game? What is the concensus?
Watched a lot of reactions and breakdowns yesterday. Basically:
- Falcons blew the game, but the comeback is not to be underestimated.
- If the Falcons had won it on a field goal we would hlbe having a different conversation about Brady. As it stands he has the greatest career of anyone in the QB position of all time, but he's not the best player in that position.
- Bill is a fucking genious and nobody is better
- Overtime rules should be changed, but Atlanta deserved to lose

>luck costed Brady the 2007 win
Then we have to be fair and assess that shitty playcalls by the opposing team gave him his last two owls. You can't have it both ways. You can't call the Tyree catch "luck" and then not say the seahawks and falcons both blew their games on abysmal calls.

>Lucky catch
So the pats get credit for the self destruction of the falcons and seacucks due to bad decision making but the Ttree catch is just "luck"?

Brady has the numbers to back up why he's the best, it's not just his accolades (aka rings). Retards act like he has Terry Bradshaw numbers when Brady stats are better than Marinos', who ppl say is suppose to be the most "talented" QB ever

Hivemind confirms

I agree with this entire assessment. I don't think he's the best quarterback ever, but there's not a "bunch" of guys I'd take over him either. Maybe Marino, Rodgers, I really can't think of much else. If you had swapped Brady and Matty Ice and Ryan gets Belichick but Brady gets that impossibly lethal offense they likely would have won by 20. Yeah in 2007 they didn't score many points with one of the leagues best offenses ever but the Giants had a killer defense who were hot as hell, and if you replay that game 10 times the Pats win 8 of them.

Can I just say as an actual patsfan, I find casual Brady bandwagoners to be the single most insulting thing to my team.

>bill is a fucking genius and nobody is better
well, who was calling the offensive plays in the first half? sure hope for bill's sake, that it was mcdaniels. because that was some of the weakest shit i've ever seen in a super bowl.

I don't think swapping Brady with anyone would net better results. I think he gells perfectly with the Billachek system and it's a recipe for success.
Yeah, Rodgers is "better" at just being a good QB. So what? Brady has the better career and team. That's what matters.

I never said the Giants win was illegitimate I said it was a lucky catch. Likewise, Brady was lucky the Falcons fucked up that field goal situation so badly.

What I won't give you is the Seahawks game though since just getting that far required an absolutely retarded catch, I think there was great luck on both sides in that one.

Basically I think in 2007 the Pats outplayed the Giants all around, in this last one I think the Falcons outplayed the Pats, and in 2014 I think the Pats outplayed the Seahawks. But yeah, luck does play a role and sometimes you lose or win from it. Also helps Brady had Adam Vinatieri to kick a 48 yard field goal in snowy weather with bad winds and the tuck rule saved his ass. That was a game the Pats got outplayed in and managed to win anyway. My only point is that Brady is a pretty skilled player, he's not just a system babby

The Pats were simy outplayed by a superior team. They didn't really change much at all. They just stuck to the plan and the falcons ran out of gas. It's a perfectly legitimate way to win. You gotta play 4 quarters and pace yourself.

It's like Goku vs Golden Frieza.
Frieza was more powerful but couldn't maintain his out of control power level for the whole fight.

I'm a Patsfag, but I think a lot of that makes sense.

I think what's important to keep in mind though is that Bill's system doesn't work without someone like Brady. He's the best and hardest working person on the team, and he drinks the kool-aid. Everyone else sees that, and they fall in nice. I honestly don't think you'd have that with a lot of the other QBs.

The either/or question is stupid. Brady is a great QB and Bill is a great coach. Together, they make each other GOATs.

>Brady is a pretty skilled player, he's not just a system babby
I think at this point that's an undesputable fact.
He's the most successful QB of all time.
He's never going to get the full approval of everyone of being the best at the position, but he is in the conversation and to ask for more than that would just be greedy and in my opinion a bit disrespectful to Bill's system. Brady isn't a product of the system, he's the perfect fit for it, but we can't discount the system itself, if that makes sense.

Dropped passes and the fumble were what killed them early on, and their o line was basically nonexistent. Then Brady tensed up and started choking a bit admittedly, underthrowing passes and then the pick 6. But I wouldn't game Belichick for that.

The pats really disn't change anything. Bill eveb admitted this afterwards. He said at half time he told them to trust the plan.

The only major change was that the Falcons just got tired. They couldn't keep up for 4 quarters and the Pats had more in the tank. That's a perfectly legitimate way to win. You gotta pace yourself.

Serious question. What makes Rodgers better than Farve all time at this very moment?

This fag has gotten way too much undeserved respect, was a one year wonder in the Owl and has under achieved in the playoffs since. At least Favre made the Owl twice (got ref ball'd vs Denver) and nearly made a third time with the Vikings if it wasn't for the bounty the Saints put on him.

Yeah I agree. I just don't agree with the idea that say, put Peyton on the Patriots and they are better. Peyton was never one to make those 8 yard bullet passes and he operated in a hurry up offense focused on throwing the ball down the field. He could never be as methodical as Brady at picking up 8 yards, 5 yards, 3 yards, 6 yards, ad nauseum. He threw a lot of interceptions and made a lot of big plays.

Your way of making rational points that don't disregard people's opinions or put people down is disingenuous to the spirit of this board, and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

what? there was a sequence where they literally called the same EXACT pass twice in a row, just switched to the other side of the field. it was the most amateur, madden-esque coaching performance i've seen in a long, long time.

>Serious question. What makes Rodgers better than Farve all time at this very moment?
He plays better. He throws dragons. He reads the game better than pretty much anyone in the league.
He has a shit coach and team mates that put in half effort. I don't think he will ever get another ring. Brees and Luck have very much the same issue on their team.
Farve was Brady before Brady. He olayed for a long time, got a lot of wins, and gmbecause of how long he olayed, got a lot of records. Brady is a better version of Farve, but also with a much better coach and organization.

People have forgotten how good Favre was in his prime. Rodgers has done some incredible things, but Favre was THE undisputed best player in the league for a 3 year period.

It's a good debate which of the two was better at their very best.

>Yeah I agree. I just don't agree with the idea that say, put Peyton on the Patriots and they are better
He wouldn't be. Because Peyton is the ultimate game manager. He WAS the coach for whichever team he was on, essentially. Bill's system requires a QB that is going to work within the confines of what is planned, and execute those comfines perfectly. Peyton can't do that. Everything he does comes straight drom him. He makes his own playcalls, designs his own runs, etc.

Isn't Bill that coach that cheated a while ago? I remember that name from that south park episode.

>He WAS the coach for whichever team he was on
such horeshit

Not going to go into the Brady conversation too much, he is clearly GOAT as far as rings but its arguable from any other standpoint how good he is.

As for the falcons blowing it / not blowing it, that is kind of how come backs happen, not to take anything away from the pats, but honestly if the falcons didn't blow it they wouldn't have won. Brady still made the plays to bring them back when he needed to, but this game woulda ended if the falcons had kicked a field goal, instead the play calling was atrocious in the 4th and Ryan basically screwed his team over by himself at the end.

Max Kellerman was pretty much right when he said that choosing not to kick the field goal or run the ball in 3rd and 1 situations was the falcons basically saying "we don't want this trophy you guys take it"

It's not as bad as Pete Carrol choosing to throw it on second down, but its pretty fucking bad still, and it is kind of funny how 2 historic chokes / bad play calls come against the pats to give them a super bowl...

>He plays better.
Subjective.
>He throws dragons
I've never seen a Favre game: The Post

So basically nothing. Favre has the better resume and numbers. If Rodgers died today or stop playing football he wouldn't be greater than Favre.

He revolutionized the hurry up offense my man.

I misinterpreted the rules!

I try to be as fair as I can.
I frequent probably a third of the boards on this site and while Sup Forums is nowhere near the most autistic, it's one of the worst as far as having a deep knowledge of its own subject matter. Everything here is skin deep analysis at most.
Team wins the owl? It's the quarterback that did it!
Team loses the owl? It's the quarterback that did it!

Football is a team sport. Ranking individual players is such a paradoxical thing because plauers are so reliant on each other and their game an at any given moment. In fact, that's the reason the oats are the best team, because they're not predictable. They have no formula. Hogan might have a great game. Next game they might not use him at all.
Look at the steelers. You know exactly what they are hoing to do. Throw to Ben, hand to Bell. It's too formulaic.
I don't like this board that much because people here discount all this. Right now it's all Brady Brady Brady! It's missing the point. And in my opinion this is because Sup Forums seems to get all their info from the sports media, AKA the worst media of them all. Worse than vidya press.

>implying rings make a single player the GOAT

>implying rings make a single player the GOAT
They don't.
As far as individuals go, rings are only a mettic for coaches.
But after a certain amount of time, you can't chalk it all up to just being on the right team.

brady lady gaga gisele adverts

Agree to disagree, I don't think Brady would be the same if he was playing under a different HC. Not saying he would be garbage but no way he has the success that he's seen under Belicheck.

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and you're basing that on absolutely nothing

what exactly can't brady do?

Patriot cheated somehow but nobody can figure out how

the patriots are so successful because of discipline, and everybody always being where they need to be. brady's actual athletic ability as a quarterback is exceedingly average.

I agree with this.
On another team Brady would probably have 1 owl.
But without Brady Bill would probably only have 3

I think it is about how you look at being the best. If being the best means winning important games and being a leader than Brady is the GOAT. If we talk about athleticism or pure skill then he is not.

For me I would pick Brady because I would rather win the big games than having several regular season records but I mean you can make an argument either way.

>brady's actual athletic ability as a quarterback is exceedingly average.
Good thing he plays a position that requires a million more important things than athletic ability.

Fucking Jay Cutler has more athletic ability than almost any QB in the league

>brady's actual athletic ability as a quarterback is exceedingly average
You mean he can't run fast.

>brady's actual athletic ability as a quarterback is exceedingly average.

How much athletic ability do you need to literally throw a football? By your logic Randle Cunningham, $cam Newton, Vick, Vince Young and McNair are top 5 QBs All Time

Accuracy, poise, quick release, strong arm, reading defenses, leadership, none of that shit matters if you can't run fast.

>pure skill

Define this. Brady consistently has a top 3 QB rating every season and has an All time great TD/INT ratio

that's wrong, you can only be a pure pocket passer like brady if your COACHES and MANAGERS can build a proper team around you. otherwise your career is going to look more like brett favre's.

>your career is going to look more like brett favre's

Favre has a top 5 career for a QB. You don't know shit.

>otherwise your career is going to look more like brett favre's.
most qbs would kill for a career like favre's.

Ranking qBs is the dumbest shit ever.
QBs are incredibly reliant on their coaching staff and recieving core, and I don't just mean the elite status of the core.

TL;DR all QBs are system babbys

i said it's going to look like, you intensely disabled autists. not literally be brett favre's career. you're going to have to compensate for a lot more than brady has to compensate for.

How did Brady get 466 passing yards in this game?

>How did Brady get 466 passing yards in this game?
I have no idea. Did most of them come from the 4th quarter?

99 offensive snaps

All I can think of is maybe Vick if you're going for an all out "You can't stop all of us" offense of speed freaks

None of the others have shown Brady's pliability in running so many different offensive systems in their career

Are there qbs with better arms and accuracy out there than Brady? Yeah

Are there more athletic QBs out there than Brady? Definitely

But none of them have the desire to win and mental fortitude of Tom Brady. He's the type of guy you rally around because he never stops fighting. Look at how many patriots new and old say what a leader the guy is.

Thats why Brady is so successful.

Pats were driving up the field the ENTIRE game, the difference was in the 1st half they turned the ball over twice in the red zone and in the 2nd half they finished drives with TDs

correction: the pats were getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage and a young, cocky falcons defense racked up penalties to make it look like they were driving down the field.

He's literally the master chief of football.
Not the best in any discernable category, but he always gets the results where other fail. He never gives up.

>Are there qbs with better arms and accuracy out there than Brady?

Brady at age 39 yes, but Brady at age 28 and in his prime only Peyton was in his league.

They had around 200 yards of offense in the first half, guy.

He had a much better second half but he still had over 100 yards in the first half

you must be thinking of the falcons. the patriots had about 12 yards of offense for most of the first half.

They had 2 red zone turnovers, so they put up yards and not much else

Aaron Rodgers has a better arm/accuracy than Brady in his prime

No he doesn't

The first 3 quarters were boring as shit but the 4th quarter is probably one of the most interesting games in all of sports that I've seen

Brady is playing better now than he was in his prime (25-30 for most males) so I don't know what you mean

He's in better shape now, but he's not playing better than he was 10 years ago, the numbers prove it

It's like Star Wars ROTJ, boring as fuck for 90% of the movie but the last 10% was classic kino and pottery

Quinn having recent Super Bowl experience makes it hard to understand how they handled the extended break so poorly. only so much you can do I suppose, but Ryan and the offense going over an hour without any reps played a huge part as well

Being 4x Owl MVP with those rings does though and so does making a comeback like the one we saw the other day.

>He's in better shape now, but he's not playing better than he was 10 years ago, the numbers prove it
Brady disagrees

I'm going to continue to call you and anyone else who says throwing it was a mistake for the seahawks

Because of those faggots burning a timeout on absolutely nothing they only had 1 left. They wanted to run the clock because brady could do a lot with a full play clock. Not to mention they had just stopped him on a run for their play

They had 3 options essentially

>run 3 times but doing this means they couldn't run the clock on their 1st run and if they made it their second run Brady would have a fuckton of time to only need a field goal along with two timeouts.

>do what they did and throw the ball first so if it's an incomplete they can run, call time out, then run again leaving no time regardless of when they score

>run then throw then run which is essentially the same thing just a different order

>let the clock run down and only get two more runs

it was a smart call because the pass was supposed to essentially be a "free play" but Russel Wilson is a such a shit QB manlet he can't be bothered to not throw an interception. Seahawks are a meme team who win off trick plays and nothing else. The call wasn't bad just literally the only thing that could have gone wrong did. And if they didn't waste their time burning a TO I think it was to prevent delay of game, they could've ran all 4 times.

I have no idea what Quinn was thinking and a part of me honestly feels like it was rigged

>Throws tighter spirals
>Can actually throw hail marys

>I'm going to continue to call you and anyone else who says throwing it was a mistake for the seahawks
Then get used to calling out literally everyone in the wide world of sports.
You have the best running back in the league for 3rd and 1 on the half yard line. It doesn't matter if they know he's coming, you have 2 time outs and 3 chances.
If you can't win the game with Lynch, then you can't win.

The thing with the Carroll is simple. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. All throughout that season and the playoffs the Seahawks were taking huge risks and that allowed them to beat the Packers to get to the Owl in the first place. Carroll kept rolling the dice and kept winning and winning and winning until the very last play when he lost big.

As for the Falcons, they didn't behave any differently than they did during the season. Hell, Belichick loves doing that kind of shit like passing on 3rd/4th and short. That's generally how Pats drives die and they get shut down. Also, it must be said that the Atlanta defense being so aggressive in the first half had to have exhausted themselves by the 4th quarter and got absolutely dismantled. Look at that overtime. Brady cut through them like a hot knife through butter like they were a High School team.

>a top athlete denies he has gotten worse over the years
great post

Here is a few little tidbits and FACTS about the game that might push you over the edge

-After going up 28-3 with over 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter the Atlanta falcons only ran the ball 5 more times the rest of the game

-The Falcons also left 3 minutes and 56 seconds on the clock after the game was all said in done. This is mainly attributed to the Falcons leaving 10+ seconds on the play clock almost EVERY. SINGLE. PLAY. after the Patriots missed their extra point when the score was 28-9 as well as only running 5 times in 24 minutes.

-Coincidentally that 3 minutes and 56 seconds is the exact amount of time for Tom Brady and the Patriots to engineer their comeback.

>Then get used to calling out literally everyone in the wide world of sports.
A lot of coaches and ex players acknowledge the logic behind throwing, most people who call it the worst call ever are """"experts"""" of the Stephen A Smith ilk.

Also Lynch was a shit goal line back, get it through your thick skulls.

Throwing it wasn't risky. Going pass-run-run maximised their chances of scoring a TD and leaving as little time on the clock as possible. Picks thrown at the 1 yard line are incredibly rare and there's about an equal chance of a fumble in case of a run.

>Throws tighter spirals
No he doesn't
>Can actually throw hail marys
Any QB can throw a Hail Mary, it doesn't take any skill, it's relies on luck and shitty secondary defensive play

>Any QB can throw a Hail Mary, it doesn't take any skill
Opinion discarded

>chuck it up to the sky and pray my WR makes a miracle catch takes skill

Brady himself disagrees with you idiot

ONE timeout you faggot because they burned the other shortly before to save a delay of game penalty.

Brady had 2 timeouts if they had ran it in without wasting the clock Brady coudl've easily gotten to field goal range.

The only argument acceptable is that he should've ran 2nd and thrown on 3rd which is basically the same thing.

If Lynch was so good he would've ran it in on first down.

He's been stopped in that game and others and his stats for running in on the endzone were terrible that season despite having good stats everywhere else.

The throw was a free play because seahawks failed to manage their timeouts

about what?

He did run it on first down you moron. He got it to the half yard line

>still ignoring everything else

they've stopped him on conversions that short before they could've done it again, the throw was a "free play" or should have been if the seahawks didn't suck

Brady is the GOAT at the point in my opinion. Joe Montana was actually really frail according to Walsh which was part of the reason they had Steve Young plus he had Jerry Rice. Rodgers has great skill but he just disappears and goes through slumps. Dan Marino was arguably better then Tom but he could never get over the hump. Peyton and Brett would throw picks in clutch situations.