Sauron vs. the Night King

Sauron vs. the Night King

Both with their armies.

Wo wins?

if we assume a 1:1 kill ratio
then the night king
Sauron just brought together the underprivleged races of middle earth to fight against their oppressors, so his army can be killed
but the night king formed his army by re-animating the bodies of his fallen enemies, so every kill by his army increases its size by 1

>Sauron just brought together the underprivleged races of middle earth to fight against their oppressors

So basically he's the Trump of middle earth?

I never saw the movies... did they actually show Sauron? The books never do.

>never saw LotR
>books
>show

okay, it was an infelicitous phrasing
what I mean is, I just read LOTR and was expecting some scene in the novel with Sauron, and he is never in any scene
so I was wondering if the movies do show him, because, in the sense that a book 'shows' a character by including him in a scene in the book, LOTR the book(s) never show Sauron
clear now?

while looking at a picture FROM THE MOVIE you ask this.
What do you think thats fan art?
fuck off

The Lich King

Sauron is a literal angel of creation, and only by cutting off his ring can you temporarily banish him.

Where are they fighting? sort of makes a difference, doesnt it

obviously Sauron because he doesn't look like a chilly cancer patient

There's a scene showing when Sauron was first defeated, before the one ring was lost to time, long before it ended up at the bottom of that river where Gollum (or whatever he was at the time) found it.

You aren't missing anything. I loved the books, and I watched the fellowship and couldn't stomach any other of the movies. They fucked up too much.

They didn't even include Tom Bombadil, ffs. I mean, come on.

Sauron, 100%.

bombadill was an ancillary character, if that, no need to drag those movies out any longer

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>Trump
>Underprivileged
Huh?

Stick with the books. The movies were a decent attempt but they can't help but fall short.

I could bring up over a dozen specific things they caught wrong just within the first hour of the first movie. I mean, one glaring issue I had with the movie was that in Moria, where they fought the cave troll, Frodo was seen speared and saved only by his mithril shirt. If it happened like the movie showed, frodo would have been skewered like an hors d'oeuvre, with the mithril shirt hanging off the bloody end of the spear along with his entrails.

The fact is that Frodo wasn't stabbed by a troll in the book, he was stabbed by an orc, and he wasn't just wearing a mithril shirt, the book clearly states Frodo wore a coat of leather over the mithril shirt.

Anyway, the list goes on and on. The books are way better, naturally.

>>Trump
>>Underprivileged
>Huh?

His followers are underprivileged. Physically and intellectually.

I'd have to say The Night King, because for every one of Sauron's soldiers that dies, that adds another to the army of The Night King. And on top of that, to defeat Sauron all you have to do is remove his ring somehow, so through sheer numbers The Night King would eventually win. And the white walkers literally bring the cold, so the orcs would be fighting in hostile territory that they aren't used to regardless of where they fight. AND orcs can be killed by the weapons of the white walkers, but white walkers can only be killed with obsidian or valeryian steel which the orcs would have no way of obtaining. So they would be left with obsidian, which is brittle and not well suited for larger weapons so they'd need daggers, which requires them to get in close, which is not smart with white walkers.

Fuck tom bombadil that singing faggot

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Night king.
His commanders are literally invincible to normal steel, as well as every weapon except the special fancy steel and fire.
His foot soldiers are pretty much indestructible too, because if your dismember them, the limbs keep fighting.
Sauron is just an old guy with the ability to torn invisible and some orcs to send into the meat grinder

jet trolls can't melt mythril beams buddy

Tom Bombadil was one of the only other people in the entire story that was not only in possession of the ring, but also wore it. Reading the books for the first time, it isn't clear that Frodo was given the one true ring back until later in the story, because Tom Bombadil took it, made it disappear, and put in on his finger before giving it back to Frodo.

well, I thought it might be the leader of the Ring Wraiths or perhaps some other character
as it is, it's a shame they showed him... kinda misses Tolkien's point

night king doesn't look menacing to me
weak traces and body, looks like a zombified beta male

ah, so it's a flashback
interesting

And thats not even mentioning what this guy brought up with the wights literally continuing to fight until they're completely destroyed physically, whereas if you cut an orcs arm off he's pretty fucked. So through being basically a completely unrelenting indestructible ever growing army that brings the harshest winter imaginable with them, they'd win. Think of the nazis going into Russia in the winter.

Morgoth not Sauron.

Finally, some one said it

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I realize kids today are watching the damn movies before they even know it's a book written during WWII, but the books are a better story. They focused too much on the movies on the epic fight scenes, which were cool, but not what the books were about.

THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!!!

How did you get to 2017 and not see the movies but have read the books?

You shut your jew mouth.

Tom Bombadil is fucking awesome, dudes. Tolkein included him in the story, and removing him as as arbitrary as removing the story of the Ents, or Shelob or the elves or anything else.

Sauron. His armies have generals who are capable of independent thought and magic, not just mind controlled mobs. He has actual magic on his side. He wouldnt have to even take to the field except for maybe a 1 on 1 with the night king. His Nazgul and top tier monsters/generals could easily take on a white walker.

Saurons only disadvantage would be the inferior quality of his weapons and front line infantry (who when killed would join the enemies ranks). But since the night kings armies biggest weakness is obsidian and Sauron lives on a volcano, he wouldnt take too long to adapt.

this

>his armies have generals who are capable of independant thought and magic
So does the Night King, thats who the White Walkers are. They lead the wights. And they're magical by their very nature.

David Xanatos.
Don't ask me how, but I'm sure it will work out in his favor.

Mordor is full of volcanic mountains. I don't think it would take a wizard to organize Sauron's armies to produce obsidian arrowheads and other weapons.

I mean, I'm not saying it's a sure win or anything, but saying they have no way of obtaining obsidian when it occurs naturally all around mountainous areas and volcanoes, is just not thinking.

is it fuck. bombadil did nothing. he just motivated the hobbits and saved them from some evil forest shit. Take away the forest visit, no threat or story changing events lost.

The Ents took on Saruman and saved Helms Deep, Shelob was part of Sam and Gollums arc with Frodo, and without the elves there would be no fellowship, Helms Deep would have been lost and Aragorn wouldnt have had Anduril back or motivation to become the King of Gondor with his elf mistress.

He didn't say they can't get obsidian, he said they can't get valeryan steel so they'd only be able to use obsidian.

They had to cut it down to a decent length for the films, and on the whole he was an unnecessary character to the story arc. Plus movie audiences wouldn't get the whole can't be corrupted by the ring but overall doesn't give a shit, he'd rather stay in his woods porking his wife while the world burns around him theme.

My point is that Tom Bombadil is just as important. You talk about "some evil forest shit" like it was nothing, but the books are full of shit like that that was just ignored in the movies. The point isn't that Tom Bombadil was some shining pinnacle of the books, he's an example of the many things they cut from the movies.

The whole point I'm making is the books are better and they are. They are complete and whole and not some money hungry action movie wannabe best picture shit.

Lets be generous and assume they can raise/control the dead and make other whitewalkers (both things which only the night king has been shown to do so far), what actual magic do they have? Summoning the cold? Shattering steel? Above average strength?

oooh scary

Well the Night King's standard white walkers will be able to take Sauron's infantry very easily HOWEVER that's all the Night King has. If you toss in the Nazgûl lead by the Witch King and other dark creatures like Olog Hai and Shelob, not to mention the Balrog, a great beast of literal hellfire and the same thing as Sauron is, then I'm going to have to give this one to the Dark Lord.

In the books, the elves never show up at Helms Deep. But I agree with everything else.

The Balrog isn't the same thing as Sauron dude. It's way less powerful.

no argument about the books being better, but you implied he was as important to the plot as the ents, shelob or the elves which is just not true. There is a lot of filler in that first book.

Bombadil DID give Pippin (or Merry I forget which one) a special enchanted Elvish blade that more or less killed the Witch King, it was specifically made for that very thing, which wasn't mentioned in the movies so it looked like the great evil lord of Angmar look like he was taken down by an ordinary butter knife, turning one of my favorite characters into a screeching little bitch.

I think they end up working together tho

Would Sauron fight an army or relatively weak creatures that can only be destroyed by Dragon Glass, Valyrian Steel or fire, without any of these?

Sauron's hordes and generals aren't mindless ghouls, in fact, they join a battle with precisely the units and constructs needed for that battle.

How about being functionally unkillable in the LOTR universe?

Yea Sauron was a chief lieutenant of Morgoth but they are still both Valar. Either which way the Balrog still is a being of pure evil and it doesn't matter if white walkers need valaryan steel or obsidian to be killed. If those frosty corpses are whacked by a whip of hellfire, they aren't getting back up.

But how would they know to use the obsidian?

And that's without the One Ring. With it he is like a god of mortal realms, so powerful every good character in the Lord of the Rings is terrified of the thought of Sauron having it again. The story didn't even pull a "bad guy got the MacGuffin but it turns out live conquers all" sort of deal. They are just straight up "if this guy gets this ring we are So. Very. Fucked."

Tom Bobadill was the literal embodiment of the world, or the planet if you want. Tolkien showed through Bombadill that no matter the dealings of Valar, Elves or Men the planet would still endure.

Much like if we killed ourselves the planet would still spin around the sun and the sun would make its course around our galaxy.

Bombadill is the most powerful creature in the stories simply because he doesn't give a fuck. He is happy to sustain and nurture the hobbits for the indescribable period of time they spend in his realm. But once they feel it's time to leave he lets them. This also shows in the warped time the hobbits experience while with him. A planets timescale is way beyond our own and therefor doesn't function as the rest of us mortals experience it.

I got that mixed up. They weren't Valar, they were Maiar, whoops.

Listen faggots the night king has not shown that he can raise the dead as often as he wants without draining himself. He waited till after the battle to do it heavily implying he doesnt just have some inexhaustible aura around him doing it without effort.

Sauron has an army 100,000 + strong including elephants, trolls, winged creatures (the beasts the nazgul rode) possibly dragons and of course balrogs - living creatures of fire.

His army would roll over and dismember the undead and pull to pieces the 10 or so white walker lieutenants. If they had to they'd use 50 orcs per walker and carry them to the volcano of fucking fire.

This is all ignoring the fact that Sauron doesnt just use magic he fucking makes it. He overpowers all evil creatures wills and commands them. The night king would be a fucking thrall of Sauron before he ate his Wheaties. Just another king fallen to the shadow realm like the nazgul.

sauron has no dragon glass or valarian steel. Unless he can rustle up a dragon he's pretty much fucked.

Sauron fucking created dragons in middle earth.

You only need dragon glass/valerian steel to kill the white walkers and night king. Theres only a handful of those. Pretty sure the remaining 90,000 troops could pull off overpowering them and pulling them limb from limb. If not they could carry them to the fucking volcano. Sauron would have the idea and tell them to do it.

Yes

>a dragon
Look up Ancalagon the Black, Tolkien's dragons make RR Martin's dragons look like salamanders.

Here, for reference. Note Daenery's dragons are about the size of Smaug.

That isnt an accurate scale representation. Noone knows how big he was.

If he could destroy the peaks of mountains then he had to be a pretty fucking big boy. Not only that, but dragon's fire is supposedly hot enough to melt the One Ring, with Ancalagon's fire being hotter than any other dragon that has existed. That ain't your papa's barbecue. What does Martin's plot armor say about incineration?