When did you realize that he was right?

When did you realize that he was right?

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no it's actually a 4/10

When I got deeper into hip hop to the extent where I can discern rhythms better. That's the point you get to then realize that not a single Kanye record is that great because Kanye's just not that great as a rapper, most of his backing arrangements have straightforward rhythms unless it's Diamonds or Power, and his mixing's always too brickwalled which especially hurts his more detailed/layered stuff like the two previously mentioned tracks.

Yesterday

>not a single kanye record is that great, kanye's not that great as a rapper
listen to college dropout again. i do agree with your other points though

Came here to post this

Who cares what you think, faggot? Did you really waste your time posting that? Oh you're deep into hip hop, huh? I guess that makes you King Retard.

Hip hop is shit.
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when i listened to the album

He's wrong. It's a 10.

this album is a 9/10 you contrarian faggots

>MBDTF is 6
>Flowerboy is 8
>Rodeo is 8
>DAMN is 7

Hmmmm

I am not gonna lie he has some nice bars on that record, and that does make him above average. But compared to the very top of rappers, cream of the crop guys like Nas/GZA/Eminem/Kendrick/El-P/etc?

I legitimately don't understand the universal acclaim for this album. I like it, sure, but it didn't really do anything new.

>Eminem
My sides

The second I heard it

Reddit numale detected

Em is objectively more rhythmically technical and versatile than Kanye though. This has been documented like a million times now in every from Rap Genius articles to YouTube videos.
There's no track out there where Kanye's vocals are able to carry the energy of the track. Kendrick has managed to do that on DNA, Eminem has managed to do that in practically every song he's ever done, El-P has really only been doing that since C4C. Kanye's literally the most nu male of them all.

I mean he at least Rodeo right

Kanye has plenty of songs that it's just them and most of them are good, also eminem being more complex doesn't mean he's better.

When you quote rap genius articles you automatically loose the argument.

Better luck next time

CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWLING IIIIIIIIIIIIIIN MY SKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN

>Kanye has plenty of songs that it's just them and most of them are good
What does this mean?
>also eminem being more complex doesn't mean he's better.
It sure does in this case. Hip hop is a genre centered around rhythm, and Kanye's lacking in bringing a variety of interesting vocal rhythms to make the music engaging meanwhile Em is literally probably just that.

>white people's shit taste in hip hop

Go listen to rock my white friends

Today actually. I actually don't care about Kanye and his personal life. And the lyrics are kinda bad.

What if Kanye's songs involve more than just rhythm? Whoa. And also you make Hip Hop seem really shitty in this sense. Single voice rhythm can never be that interesting to begin with.

But they really don't. So you got a handful of tracks that do some interesting stuff like the aforementioned Diamonds From Sierra Leone or Power, but his arrangements otherwise aren't doing interesting melodies or obtuse structures. The core of his work is more rhythmically simple hip hop with simple melodic work added on top for non-hip hop fans to be able to more easily digest what's going on. I guess in some of the records there's the whole "maximalist" thing, too, but that kind goes out the window thanks to brickwalled production. It's in that way no different at all to what was happening with the genre at the very mainstream in the 2000s.
>And also you make Hip Hop seem really shitty in this sense. Single voice rhythm can never be that interesting to begin with.
But I never said that's what it's all about? I said the genre's centered around rhythm. That means the kind of rhythmic interplay that's often happening between the rapper and his backing arrangement, both of which require conjuring a variety of different rhythms/styles of delivery to make this genre interesting.

You focused just on the part where I focused on his rapping, but not the parts where I lambasted his production as well.

Sorry not going to bother reading this

Then don't waste both yours and my time at some half-assed attempt at discussion with me.

You complain about his production when Damn. is has hands down the worst production iv'e ever heard in my entire live.

Just because the genre is slightly "centered" around rhythm doesn't mean that his simple rapping makes his albums inferior. Look at MF DOOM, all of his flows a simple 1-7 break on 8 and repeat, or Entroducing... which is instrumental.

Saying Nas Eminem and Kendrick are "cream of the crop" guys probably means you haven't been here very long, this might help.

This guy completely ignores lyrics.

>You complain about his production when Damn. is has hands down the worst production iv'e ever heard in my entire live.
Yet TPAB is easily one of the most dense hip hop records ever made. Also if you think DAMN.'s production job is bad, I would recommend opening up a DAW just to recreate some of the smaller details that went into making that album. Even though it's sparse, it's still absurdly maximalist in many ways.

>Look at MF DOOM, all of his flows a simple 1-7 break on 8 and repeat
Seriously did you just give MF DOOM as an example? You mean the guy that messes with rhythms so much that his lines technically often don't end on the same measure as where the beat loop does? Come on, his signature flow is loved literally because he uses lyrics to create atypical rhythmic interplay considering where his rhymes land and where his beats does.
>Entroducing...
The album rarely if at all actually follows traditional hip hop structure. It's closer to trip hop/plunderphonics.
Name more technical rappers who are well known enough to be used as examples then.

lol

>Also if you think DAMN.'s production job is bad, I would recommend opening up a DAW just to recreate some of the smaller details that went into making that album.
If you think the production on XXX is maximalist, I honestly feel bad for you

Also, I bought fl 5 years ago and its not that hard to open a limiter and turn it up or level vocals correctly. Not to mention multiple tracks on the album use sample packs which is honestly laughable

>his lines technically often don't end on the same measure as where the beat loop does?
having what sounds like accidental atypical rhythms doesn't make the music 20 times better

Embarassing

ETHERED

ur opinions suck and i pity you

imagine thinking el-p is a top 5 rapper when hes literally been spitting pure memes since he started rtj

what if they think that's the reason he's a top 5 rapper

>deep into hip hop
>Eminem

what is going on

2000 years in MS paint

already been made and shared by melon himself

i was looking for this, but couldn't find it

read the first two sentences

there is nothing wrong with having uncomplicated music

thats not the defining factor of "good" music

>If you think the production on XXX is maximalist, I honestly feel bad for you
We aren't talking about XXX though what the fuck?
>Also, I bought fl 5 years ago and its not that hard to open a limiter and turn it up or level vocals correctly. Not to mention multiple tracks on the album use sample packs which is honestly laughable
>muh sample packs meme
Again, maybe actually REALLY try replicating it. Here's someone making fun of it on YouTube: youtube.com/watch?v=zQZnOmDq_e8

>having what sounds like accidental atypical rhythms doesn't make the music 20 times better
But they are intentional, and it's this sorta polyrhythmic work that forces a listener to engage with the music to really digest the whole thing. It's not random/DOOM trying to sound like he messed up.
At least I can back them up.
Sure his RTJ stuff is very simplistic production wise compared to his solo stuff, but even on RTJ he still brings great bars.
Appreciation is what's going on. When I was more entry level, I also used to be all "kek muh cringe lyrics dae Em aged terrubly?" like the hivemind around here. But you really get a good appreciation for what he does once you really start paying attention to the music. Also a good example since he's well known enough for even the most retarded person to know what I am talking about (or maybe not considering your post and that other guy's post.)

That's untrue, but complicated doesn't mean a lot of parts/very little parts. A Tribe Called Quest for example had a very minimal approach on Low End Theory, yet they make far more engaging music than Kanye who's music can only really be engaged on a surface level as it has no depth despite having so many layered parts.

Sorry you're too ADHD to appreciate more engaging and well made music?

>We aren't talking about XXX though what the fuck?
the song, a matter of fact almost every song on damn has the vocals too loud, too quiet, or awkwardly placed.

>muh sample packs meme
? what meme is there. The producer used fucking sample packs

> it's this sorta polyrhythmic work that forces a listener to engage with the music to really digest the whole thing.
Again, that doesn't mean it's better than something that's more simple

>When I was more entry level, I also used to be all "kek muh cringe lyrics dae Em aged terrubly?" like the hivemind around here. But you really get a good appreciation for what he does once you really start paying attention to the music.
If you just started paying attention to the music, that means you really just started listening to it, implying that it's entry level.

*that you're entry level

>the song, a matter of fact almost every song on damn has the vocals too loud, too quiet, or awkwardly placed.
Wanna give specific examples? Because while I don't think that album's all that great myself (I mainly based my backing of the guy from his work before DAMN), I still think the vocals are fine and their dynamics has more to do with how Kendrick himself adds dynamics than anything.
>Again, that doesn't mean it's better than something that's more simple
It does though in a discussion. Everything else is based off your own personal subjective experience, which is meaningless in a discussion like this. Besides, you have yet to bring in specific examples and keep spouting this. Meanwhile I have said it multiple times that Kanye lacks both the skill and creativity to delve into more diverse waters, sticking to the easy way out that results in easy listening pop crap.
>If you just started paying attention to the music, that means you really just started listening to it, implying that it's entry level.
Start paying attention isn't the same thing as REALLY start paying attention. A more seasoned listener of any genre is capable of picking up more details. Analogous to metal would be the person that only listened to Metallica and Iron Maiden because death metal bands were too grating until he became a more seasoned listener of the genre.

Kanye has made 8 critically acclaimed and/or classic rap albums varying from hip hop, pop rap, industrial rap (even if yeezus IS shitty), some of the first autotune rap, and some experimental shit. If that isn't diverse or skillful in music idk what is

>Wanna give specific examples?
XXX when the vocals are way louder than everything else, including the beat, Pride the vocals are too quiet, Loyalty is a mess where the bass is too low to be heard so when it comes up it bursts out of no where while the vocals are way too loud, Blood the vocals are quiet, and element they're obviously spliced

>Kanye has made 8 critically acclaimed and/or classic rap albums varying from hip hop, pop rap, industrial rap (even if yeezus IS shitty), some of the first autotune rap, and some experimental shit. If that isn't diverse or skillful in music idk what is
Critically acclaimed, cool, that's the critics' opinions. It's mostly pop rap with a new coat of paint. Yeezus really isn't industrial rap outside the first track (eg. there's nothing industrial about BOTL's brass heavy arrangement nor Bound 2's RnB feel.) T-Pain did the first autotune rap not Kanye.
>some experimental shit
>experimental
>kanye
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>If that isn't diverse or skillful in music idk what is
Diverse yes. Skillful nope. Anyone can change styles constantly yet not be good. An example of that being Kanye himself, but also Nickelback who had a more metallic sound, then post-grunge, now Djent.

>XXX
That's fucking bullshit. The down beat of the percussion is easily the loudest thing on that track. Kendrick's vocals have a ton of effects to make them cover more of the "musical space" in terms of stereo, but they aren't louder.
>Pride
Yeah his vocals aren't at the top of the mix, but what's worth noticing is that neither is the downbeat/snare either which often tends to be as well. It's an intentional choice where the rhythmic emphasis is coming from the backing arrangement not Kendrick nor the rhythmic section.
>Loyalty is a mess where the bass is too low to be heard so when it comes up it bursts out of no where while the vocals are way too loud
>too low to be heard
I have no clue what you're on. But I can hear it and feel the bass fine. Vocals aren't even that loud, sure they are louder than the arrangement bit, but that part's also very high pitched and would automatically stick out more for being that high pitched if everything else's volume wouldn't be higher.
>Blood the vocals are quiet
Not sure what you're talking about here either it sounds fine to me.

Don't bother replying to me, I gotta go to bed, and you ain't spitting anything substantial at all. Just vague shit.

LMAOO my man really tried sliding El-P into "very top of rappers"

Are you trying to say Nas and Em aren't stellar MCs? If so, you might need to hop off of MC Ride's dick and learn to judge things properly

I don't really get the point about Kanye West's personal life. Even though I know the lyrics are /about/ his personal life, in the same way that Blood on the Tracks is about Dylan's divorce, that doesn't mean I can't separate the art from the artist. It's an enjoyable album on a sonic level.