>illegally enter foreign land
>privy to deaths of national citizens
>refuse to answer to any authority or sovrereignty
>run away to hidden training compound instead of facing consequences
Literally a terrorist.
Americans will defend this, but hey America is the most evil nation on the planet so that makes sense
>run away to hidden training compound instead of facing consequences
To save the world from people more powerful than him probably.
but muh freedom
Damn. Once you really notice it the A on his head looks so stupid
>119 nations agree in huge hearing on the Sokovia Accords that the Avengers need oversight and accountability.
>Draft huge, thick document detailing contingencies and policies to keep everything above board
>literally disregard it, never pick it up
>MUH FREEDOM
>MUH AGENDAS
Same as it ever was. Now suck my cock, Gary.
I was more buthurt about Stark. That motherfucker created Ultron just because, Ultron want's to kill all humans so Stark decided to make another Ultron because he might be nice. Ultron almost kills all humans but instead kills whole town of them and don't bullshit me that they fit into hellicarier. After all this Stark goes full NSA because Captain killed like 30 people by accident. Fuck that screenwriter(s).
But Ultron was WHY Tony backs the accords.
Remember that whole scene with the black woman who told him about her son, and then when Tony showed the avengers his Facebook page and said "we dropped a building on him".... That was his entire motivation.
HE fucked up and people died. Now he wants to stop that happening.
>Avengers need oversight and accountability because bad guys bombs blow up innocent people and the heroes arn't good enough at stopping the bombs
WTF!? I HATE AMERICA NOW
>implying America needs to answer to the fucking UN
He's Captain America bitch.
>Telling the UN to fuck off because these American superheroes knows what's best for the world.
You can't get more American than that.
>the black woman
And he didn't gave a fuck before that and he went full 180 after they told him about Zemo.
Did you forget the time Tony challenged a terrorist on live television and then gave out his address? Tony Stark is a flawed character who only sees what's directly in front of him.
>be a fireman
>stop a fire
>you're now allowed to do whatever you want because one time you stopped a fire
>Tony Stark is a flawed character
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You mistake character with shit writing.
>UN allows actual genocides to occur, only requesting access so the mass murder isn't too rapey
>The UN has never agreed on military action against a single nation in it's existance
>In the case of world destruction the English would hold out until France was almost destroyed and vice versa for a lot of nations
>Have to wait for useless political discussion before tackling any incident and this will "save" lives
>Iron Man decides murder is okay once his daddy is mentioned anyway making the whole nobility and the desire for moral "good" moot
Yeah, fuck Captain America for not being a gun for retards who think they know what's best for the world. Iron Man apologists need to leave.
Never said it wasn't shit writing, but it's definitely consistent.
Please don't tell me you're too retarded to understand generic capeshit, user.
Why is Captain "America" white? Shouldn't he represent multicultural society of USA? 1940's were were real dark ages hope they update his appearance to 2016 standards
i was cringing watching this shit.
>the safest hands are still our own!
according to who exactly? yourself?
what a fucking clown thinking he can do whatever he wants with no consequences, and the kicker is most people would side with him in a movie, yet don't even care about their rights and actual freedom in real life today.
>he doesnt even read it
Ha! Typical American
>"It's the UN we're talking about, not the World Security Council or SHIELD"
So you're telling me the shitty organization that can't even enforce a truce between two warring african shitholes is more powerful than the guys who just decided to nuke NYC in mere seconds after it was attacked in the Avengers?
AYY LMAO.
Why is capeshit so dumb?
Why doesn't he use a gun more? I've never seen a more unamerican hero before in my life. He did in WWII for a bit and in the first avengers for one scene, but this dude should have his own signature gun.
>Ever agreeing to anything where Thunderbolt Ross is in charge
Cap should use a gun when fighting robots, aliens, or superhumans. A desert eagle would feel like a pea shooter in his hands.
>siding with Thunderbolt Ross
>siding with Tony "I'm an impulsive, egocentric retard who built a genocidal robot" Stark
>siding with any form of governing body after the events of Winter Soldier
>actually thinking the UN has any power and isn't made up of incompetent fucks
Lmao Starkcucks are hilarious.
>waltz into another country, don't even inform the local authorities of a possible terrorist attack, act rashly despite being in a crowded civilian areat and get a bunch of civilians killed
AVENGERS IZ GUD BOYZ DEY DINDU NUFFIN
yeah, let's just allow a bunch of superbeings to travel wherever they want and fight whoever they want without even asking permission from the local government.
He's only white in the movies. In the comic, black guy Falcon is Captain America
Actually yes, in the context of the MCU it's pretty clear that the Avengers have done more good are more competent than the government or the authorities. Don't forget, the World Security Council almost nuked New York and SHIELD/gov got taken over by HYDRA.
In the MCU, I would rather trust Captain America (WW2 hero, helped unravel the corruption going on at SHIELD) than the government.
I don't know user, the two memeber nations responsible for the most violations in the UN are Turkey and Israel.
But in reality, no one listens to the UN.
So should they have let Ultron blow up the planet while they wait for their visa's from sarkovia?
The thing us, government oversight just doesn't make sense or work in capeshit world.
Superheroes are an inherently fascistic concept, they couldn't do their job if they actually had to wait for government approval amd other shit like that. Not to mention, who could stop beings like Thor or Superman if they actually decided to do what they want or take over the world? Government oversight would be just a formality to keep the common people at ease, in reality they still wouldn't have any power.
Doesn't the fact that you guys argue incessantly about who is right mean that the dilemma in Civil War is actually well written?
Their world /= our world
In their world the most powerful nations in the world were infiltrated by one single organization bent in world domination.
When he was loyal, he was used for their ends.
>privy
So?
All this over Ultron, which wasn't created through the super hero antics they seek to outlaw but inside a lab, not with costumes but with lab coats on. It was the costumes that stopped the product of ego and science.
The problem with the accords is that they are a reactionary measure that clearly seeks to control a new power which has presented it self. None of the events mentioned were because of metahumans trying to help. Actually, the worst stuff is Tony, just Tony and what he does outside of Iron Man.
Cap has rebelled. He is not seeking to sow fear. He will help, with or without permission.
>Captain America is a fascist
Sutle commentary
Not to mention that literally every single representative of a government in the MCU turns out to be incompetent, a secret asshole, or actively making things worse while yelling IM HELPING!
The UN is shit tier at their job.
>implying Sup Forums won't argue about anything
>pledging himself to the UN
The UN is shit and Captain knows it. They've should've just let more foreign superheroes into the Avengers and made it into its own multi-national organization, with Captain as the representative since he doesn't do shit in the fights.
I don't get why the fuck would someone actually blame the Avengers for the deaths of all that people. Are they all mentally retarded?
On his world, it's a symbol for autism.
well hulk went apeshit and tony did create ultron, so he is directly responsible for all those deaths and destruction, im still confused how he didn't go to prison or at least face charges
This is why I've been saying that the events of AoU alone should have been enough to bring the Accords to a vote. That crap in L__A__G__O__S was pointless and forced. Did it even have anything at all to do with anything else happening?
>Did it even have anything at all to do with anything else happening?
Nope.
>Siding with the government after the events of Winter Soldier proving it's large and corruptible from the inside
> Would more than likely be led by the secret council who wanted to nuke New York during the events of the first Avengers (which now that I think about it is even dumber because it would only destroy New York, not the portal they were using to invade)
> Siding with Thaddeus "I gave super powers to a mentally unstable mercenary who destroyed most of Harlem in an attempt to catch a guy who literally does nothing but hide in a forest" Ross
> Championed by Iron Man who has been shown to be terrible in all aspects of decision making that are not technology related
> All because they successfully stopped a terrorist from getting his hands on a biological agent that would have killed millions.
> 30 people died versus millions, I can't even begin to count the sheer number of government agencies that would count that as a win.
> Oh wait I can: ALL OF THEM
> Ross makes the snark that they're terrible because they lost track of Hulk and Thor
> FUCKING ROSS COULD ONLY FIND HULK WHENEVER HE RESURFACED TO FIND A CURE! NO ONE EVEN KNEW THOR REALLY EXISTED!
Literally there is no logical way you can side with Iron Man if you've even slightly paid attention to the Marvel movies because everyone on his side are massive assholes.
Which generally makes them Marvel Civilians because I'm actually surprised they've been as reasonable as they have been for this long. One of my favorite X-men issues is the X-men stumbling upon a group of civvies lynching some mutants and the civvies are genuinely surprised that the X-men would try to stop them mid-lynching
You know what come to think about it, why the hell would a high tech biotech firm be in such a shitty part of the world and not afford their own high class security team? When Crossbones first shows up they take out like 10 guys who were guarding the place, why wouldn't they have more?
>In their world the most powerful nations in the world were infiltrated by one single organization bent in world domination.
>Would more than likely be led by the secret council who wanted to nuke New York during the events of the first Avengers
At least one of the council members turnd out to be a Hydra leader and killed in AoS.
Hulk was contained and there was no loss of life there.
Ultron was not the result of superhero antics, he was made in a lab by a guy outside his superhero persona.
The laws don't say shit about what Tony does outside of his armor, which is when the actual fuck ups occur. It could happen again.
>Did it even have anything at all to do with anything else happening?
Wasn't that the city Hulk smashed up in the last one?
>there was no loss of life there.
Did you miss the part where he was tearing dudes out of cars and throwing them at other dudes?
I know its a child friendly capeshit, but nigger got MURDERED!
Not that I'm aware of. Not entirely sure where Klaw's ship was, just somewhere near Wakanda is all I know.
Nah, buddy. They lived. I mean look at how vanilla that example you made was. He could have killed plenty just landing on them.
It's actually cannon Hulk doesn't kill bystanders.
Lagos is just the last straw I guess. You could also see it in universe as Wakanda pushing for the Accords because their diplomats got killed in Lagos and Wakanda is the richest country in the Marvel universe.
The actual, business side reason is that Marvel/Disney doesn't know if all the people watching Civil War actually saw Age of Ultron. They don't want to alienate potential new viewers by referencing AoU constantly, so they put in another disastrous event that could trigger the making of the Accords. The AoU events would be enough, but those that didn't saw AoU would be confused.
>Army of evil aliens are intent on destroying earth
>Avengers were the only ones able to stop them
>Government's plan was "hey, let's just nuke the closest city"
I can see why they might doubt the governments foresight on issues like this. Especially when Crossbones was a former government agent.
The more I think about it, it should just be called the Tony and US Govt Accords
Captain America
> Fights against crazy Nazis too Nazi for Hitler
> Fights against those crazy Nazis again after they infiltrate a supremely powerful govt agency
Thor
> Fights against invading Jotuns and defends a small town from a mech suit
> Fights against invading Elves and defends London from said elves
> Does not hook up with the hot warrior chick who is totally into him instead goes after Natalie Portman
Iron Man
> Doesn't pay attention to his company which allows them to sell weapons to many, many many terrorists eventually stops one of the people behind it all
> Gives tips to an insane genius bent on revenge before ultimately stopping him
> Pretty much all of the events of Iron Man 3
> Creates Ultron
US Gov't
> Employs Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross
> Gives Ross access to an incomplete Super Soldier Serum
> Employs Justin Hammer
> Encouraged Hammer to employ Ivan Vanko
> Thought it was a good idea to create flying gunships to police the world
> Infiltrated by Hydra
> Would have probably nuked Sokovia if they had a chance
There's probably more shit but I'm drawing a blank. Just kick off Iron Man from the team and you have literally halved the collateral damage from Superheroics.
I see what you're saying, but from a storytelling perspective, it's just weak, defensible, but weak.
Personally, I think it would have been far more interesting if Wakanda had actually abstained from voting on the Accords because they don't want foreigners telling them what their hero can and can't do in his own country. Panther could still sign as an individual, which would have had the dual effect of making him accountable everywhere but Wakanda and making Wakanda something of a superhuman refuge(for those they deem worthy of asylum). That would make Cap and crew retreating to Wakanda make a lot more sense.
>It's actually cannon Hulk doesn't kill bystanders.
Not if I actively repress any memory of that stupid shit.
Some of my post got cut for length, I didn't even mention the Gunships in Cap 2.
While Vision is right, the number of catastrophic events has increased the government's response to them is usually worse than the Avenger's response.
This wasn't some world threatening event. It was an act of theft and terrorism. Captain America had no right to do what he did, and not even warn the local governemnt, and because of his arrogance people died.
They were definitely at fault in Africa. Attacking Crossbones on foreign soil, amidst civilians was just retarded.
Pretty much this.
Stark is the one that's responsible for all the stupid shit in this universe and deserves to go to prison. He tries really hard to atone for all his sins, but the more he tries, the more he fucks up everythig.
More people would've died if it wasn't for him.
>It's a "contrarian hipster whines about Captain America: Civil War" episode.
No, they wouldn't. If Steve had any sense he'd just have Falcon trail them after the break-in and attack them once they were out of civilian areas. Also, they should have coordinated with the local cops. IRL Cap and the others would have been put on trial.
>It was an act of theft and terrorism.
Its counter terrorism.
The scene starts explaining how crossbones has been constantly getting away for months. The entire mission statement is finally apprehending him.
You seem to forget the entire scenario was made for him to reach Cap, Crossbones didn't expect to live. They would have forced Cap's hand regardless, that was the entire point.
No, those are excuses. People died because of Captain America and his illegal operation. Tell me, what was stopping Falcon and his robot bird from simply trailing them? Why did Captain Freedom think it was such a great idea to attack heavily armed mercenaries in the middle of a crowded city?
Look, that pesky Batman is creating a workplace hazard by trying to dispose of a bomb that would have otherwise killed hundreds.
Clearly the answer is to create a roadblock to any future heroic actions by adding an extra layer of oversight and bureacracy.
>Why did Captain Freedom think it was such a great idea to attack heavily armed mercenaries in the middle of a crowded city?
Because they were about to steal bio-weapons.
Are you really using a children's show as an example?
And? They weren't gonna deploy them right away.
You don't know what the plans are, but terrorist don't steal biological weapons to not use them. And who knows what kind of terrible capeshit super virus is in that tube. Its dangerous enough that if the vial broke open everyone was dead.
>Dude, lets steal this bio-agent and deploy right away out in the open so it can kill us, too, lmao.
Believe it or not, that's not what they were planning.
So instead of definitely stopping them now, lets maybe stop them later? Hydra pls.
The whole thing was a trap anyways. The shit only went sideways because crossbones suicide bombed himself to make them all look bad.
Nope I'm team Iron Man
He allahu ackbared himself because they attacked him, idiot. Again, give me a reason why they couldn't have followed them for 5 minutes to their hideout and attack there. Instead they attacked right in the middle of some crowded city, which is fucking retarded even for a guy with an A on his forehead.
People would have died regardless.
Actions that result in death are not mistakes if they served to curb the loss of life.
It's not always all of nothing.
>He allahu ackbared himself because they attacked him
Dawg, the whole point was to stage the op to get them to attack so he could suicide bomb himself so they could set up the avengers to force the accord.
But crossbones killed himself as part of the plan.
Hydra's entire M.O. is sacrifice plays from their soldiers, because two will the the one's place.
So they definitely would.
This, he is ignoring that was their goal, and would have forced Cap's hand regardless, their aim was discrediting the group.
So, you're admitting nobody would have died if Captain Retard didn't fall for Crossbones' plot. If he did things legally and without rushing it all those people would have survived, and the UN bullshit wouldn't have happened?
What bothers me the most about this movie is that it wants me to believe the UN has the power to enforce ANYTHING.
seeCrossbones wouldn't have blown himself up if Cap wasn't their in the first place.
No, more would have died until Cap showed up.
More incidents and more weapons stolen to kill mire people until he showed with the Avengers.
>Actually standing behind something that only makes red tape
Nigga its not like the bad guys are waiting for approval. signing up and waiting for fucking Ross to decide to send you somewhere only increases the time it takes to respond to a threat. Absolutely stupid.
>shitty group of plebs with no power telling others how to use theirs
Classic eu
No, he would have just gotten away like he had been doing for months and used the bio shit to kill people and Kore Cap some other way.
Are you just pretending to be retarded? The option to follow them with their flying faggot robo bird exsited. It wasn't an attack now or let them go situation. And while we're on the subject, where the fuck was Vision?
>this "what if" nigger.
And it hadn't worked all those other months, he kept getting away, that's why they were so eager to apprehend him then and there, the guy had been slipping away for months up to that point.
I presume he was with Iron Man and War Machine.
>refuse to answer to any authority or sovrereignty
good. the government in the marvel universe is fucking retarded. world would never be saved ever if the avengers had to listen to the government
You mean
>Stop bioterrorist attack
>Refuse to listen to the people who wanted to nuke New York
>Don't wanna follow idiots who send deathsquads for people when face-mimicking tech exists
>Dislike the idea of orders from politicians from some of the most corrupt nations ever
>Know that if you wait for an UN vote you might as well just let aliens and terrorists get their way
Yeah, and that made them reckless, and people died.
>I presume
Okay, so it was bad writing.
Stopping alien invasions are one thing, running counter-terrorism operations on foreign soil is completely different.
Probably because the audience has knowledge that he is literally Good mcGoodguy.
They also know how lazy, corrupt, and inefficient international politics are. And also even more so in the films
People would have died, they minimized the loss of life.
If they hadn't kept at him, more incidents would have resulted in more loss of life. Even when surprised with a suicide attack, they adapted and lowered the casualty count more.
Do you know where they all were then?
I'm just wondering is all.
HYDRA
THE SOKOVIAN ACCORDS WERE A FUCKING HYDRA SCHEME
IRON MAN WAS BEING PLAYED BY HYDRA HOLY FUCK
yes, tony was right but instead of reason he tried to use emotion.
terrorists are also saving people from the oppression of the west
ITs not about the bomb, its about who pays for all the damages. imagine if you had a paramilitary groups of foreigners running around in your city and stopping crime. would not ask your government what the fuck was up and why do they fail on so many levels?
yeah stark is kind of that guy who used to be a shithead and is now crusading and projecting his own sins onto the other men.
This is the punisher argument again. real world does not work like magic were a hero can be always 100% right about everything.
now that I think about it, caps military career is full of insubordination
The only defense against capeshit is capeshit.
The moment he put on the Crossbanes mask and stole a biological agent that could crash down the vial (with no survivors), it became a capeshit villain moment.