Why does disco get such a bad rap?

It seems even today disco is seen as something of a dirty word for those who like to claim that the 70s, particularly from 1974 onwards sucked for music (those who clearly haven't taken the trouble to dig deep to find the dozens if not hundreds of great albums that this era had to offer us in all sorts of genres, not to mention many by black artists that had little or nothing to do with disco music).

I don't understand this. I could see why people dislike genres like punk, rap, metal, or even prog, but disco was hugely popular and beloved worldwide for a reason; it blended the best elements of Motown, soul, and funk from the 60s-70s along with other elements like Latin, classical, reggae, and blues. Most importantly, it was a huge pioneer in mapping out so many of the paths of music that would occur from the late 1970s onwards - it had a big influence on so many of the greatest popular artists, producing some great stuff from a whole range of musicians such as David Bowie, Paul McCartney, the Rolling Stones, Michael Jackson, Abba, the Bee Gees and ironically later punk/post-punk acts like Talking Heads, Gang of Four, Public Image Ltd etc, and was the genre which established the roles of producer and DJ as having just as equal if not more prominence as the singer, performer and songwriter, a very important facet of later styles such as hip hop (which sampled a lot of disco in its formative years), electronica, turntablism, to name but a few.

It's been suggested that rawk fans couldn't deal with some other genre taking over the airwaves from them. And of course contrary to revisionist history, disco didn't die out in 1980, it evolved into new forms of dance music.

Well I think I've rambled on long enough, so to wrap it up, whether you like/dislike disco, what are your thoughts on this?

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Overexposure.

While there were unheard from small groups listening to the likes of Pink Floyd, and AC/DC, It was ALL disco as far as the media , and pop culture was concerned. This pop culture in the 70s went like this:


Kiss > Kiss > Disco > Fleetwood Mac > Disco > Disco

You had your disco music, disco clubs, disco dancing, disco ducks, silk disco shirts, disco, disco, disco! On TV shows everyone from "CHiPS" to Buck Rodgers were disco dancing. Even the rock guys started doing disco.

For those that didn't care for it it was just too much. The whole end of decade was being defined by it. Just no comparison to dance music of today.

I'm not reading your personal blog post. I just want to say boney m and eruption is patrician. I mean almost all of disco is. But Italo disco is dogshit.

As much as I love disco, there were a number of bad and cheesy disco records.

I think that overexposure of the genre was what doomed it. Disco so fully saturated the culture of the late 70s (radio, TV, movies) that you were forced to either love it or hate it. And many of those who initially loved it eventually grew tired of it. By the time of its decline, it seemed like everyone was ready for something else...anything else.

Also, I think disco grew to represent the excesses of the 70s...symbolizing a decadent lifestyle that increasingly felt more alien to people suffering through the recession of the late 70s. I think people got to the point where they wanted a more organic-sounding music that they could better connect with. I don't know if the 80s necessarily provided that...but at least some artists (like Bruce Springsteen) seemed ready to capture an audience turned off by disco.

The interesting thing is that several of today's artists are adopting some of the sounds of disco again. It seems to have caught on somewhat with the generations who either didn't live through the original disco era or were too young to remember it.

>It's been suggested that rawk fans couldn't deal with some other genre taking over the airwaves from them
^This. Rockists are sensitive and touchy as fuck.

This is all true. Overexposure, commercialization, some bad songs, and yes, of course rockfags upset that they weren't front-and-center.

you don't need to add "bad" in front of rap. it can be assumed that it is bad already.

disco sucked ass

Lots of rockers bandwagoned disco at the time, but those songs sure didn't stay in the live setlists very long. Has Elton John _ever_ played anything from Victim of Love in concert?

Nile Rodgers, and his former Chic band mates Bernard Edwards & Tony Thompson, were all very well respected for their musicianship and production work. None of them had difficulty finding work, post-Chic.

As someone who was 14 in 1978, I can tell you that me and my friends were into Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Molly Hatchet, etc. None of us wanted to listen to fucking Donna Summer.

But that's the catch. Plenty of people sought Nile Rodgers and the Bee Gees as producers during the 80s, but very few people wanted to buy a Chic or Bee Gees album.

Racism and homophobia. Disco was seen as too gay and black.

I don't agree there because me and my friends grew up in the sticks pretty much, we didn't know a thing about gay culture that we could mentally link disco with it.

you're not supposed to rap on disco beats duh

desu a lot of black artists really didn't like disco much either for a number of reasons--one being the push by record labels to do disco songs and the white-ifying of the genre. Jazz artists wrote it off as too simplistic while funksters like George Clinton disliked it for the above-mentioned reasons.

maybe cause the lyrics were always meta about dancing and such

Bullcrap, tons of rawk songs were about being a rock star and doing groupies.

It got repetitive after a while with the same four on the floor beat in every song. It was like having sex in the same position for three straight years.

Eventually it evolved in what would become dance/club music in the 80s. Madonna's everybody and shannon's let the music play were early disco derivatives

You'd have to be a major revisionist to deny that disco was the soundtrack to gays and people of color coming of age and celebrating it. For many it still is. And you'd have to be musically illiterate to gloss over the genius of men like Moroder, Midney and Costandinos - to name just a few.

Of course there was a lot of disliking of disco because of its fanbase--it directly confronted the notion that the straight white male was the sole arbiter of truth in popular music. Disco didn't suck in Europe or on the US coasts: it just sucked with flyover country rednecks. No surprises there.

"The industry" only barely tolerated it because it snowballed outside the claws of the majors: thank God they were severely burned when they tried to cash in by acquisition and quickly found their mass-market disco LPs returned by the millions. Guess disco really sucked for them.

Overexposure didn't do disco any favors. Marketing can run anything into the ground and FWIW I think funk was better dance music than disco, that four-on-the-floor beat you mention lacks a good groove.

>Disco was seen as too gay and black.
Are you retarded?

I'm, sure disco had it's share of racist haters, but it is my opinion that the Disco Duck song had more to do with it's downfall. It seemed that's when the line had been crossed, and it became a parody. A big unfunny joke. People became embarrassed to be a fan. Overexposure then turned it into to a cartoon.

Blame it on the media, and Rick Dees.

>Italo disco is perfect
ftfy

Exactly. It became a spoof after a while with disco duck, and disco dog, and cheap bands where the producer was the star - like silver convention. It had a good run and they milked it for all it as worth, but eventually people got sick of it.

I don't get your insistance that it's about racism and homophobia. One of the most popular films ever was Saturday Night Fever that made millions of white heterosexual kids want to be John Travolta.

Racism, sexism and homophobia exist and no one is denying that. But it's not why disco got a bad rap.

No, that user has a point. People in the Midwest generally disliked it for these connotations. If you were alive back then you would know this

I think the problem was that it ruined the extremely solid black R&B tradition that went back to 60s Motown (Berry Gordy, the O'Jays, the Temptations, etc) and replaced it with a lot of formulaic dreck.

>I don't get your insistence that it's about racism and homophobia
Here, I'll help

>people of color
>fuck Straight White Males™ amirite

Xir's a tumblrina, everything is about racism and homophobia.

When I was a kid back then, we didn't even know what a gay person was.

Tell that to the Sugarhill Gang

>People in the Midwest generally disliked it for these connotations
So a minority of hardcore "rayciss"" Christianske disco therefore it wasn't beloved? That's such a generalizing statement, disco was hated because of the sole fact that it was seen as dancey mainstream appeal shit by dadrockers. The people who though it as a racial thing we're a vast minority.

>being a rock star and doing groupies
neither of which is dancing

I'm sure there was a little bit of homophobia in the sometimes over the top negative response to disco...but OTOH didn't the Village People have several top ten hits, and got so popular they even got their own movie? It's hard to think of a more (perhaps stereotypically) gay act than them.

Also Elton John and Judas Priest were huge with rawk fans despite being queerer than a three dollar bill.

I don't. R&b music was great during that time with the spinners, Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson's off the wall, etc etc. It remained strong through the early 80s with prince and teddy pendergrass

When I was a kid back then, we didn't even know what a gay person was. We just disliked disco because it wasn't Zeppelin, Aerosmith, or ZZ Top.

I'm not saying that race was the sole reason, but I also think your looking back on the period with rose tinted glasses. I lived through it, and many thought disco was for "fags and niggers" to quote my father at the time

Nah I think what ruined disco was really the Yuropean stuff like ABBA that managed to systematically strip out all of the blues and funk sounds from the stuff. I mean, even Christgau, who was generally quite supportive of disco couldn't stomach ABBA.

>overexposure
This. Every kind of popular music fades from popularity at some point, but disco was so aggressively popular and pushed by advertising execs that it died a fiery, public death instead of fading away nature.

You forgot when Kiss did disco.
youtube.com/watch?v=u7isxoTIeYM

Nah, it bites the dust dead last.
>Hi-NRG >Italo disco

It's a funny thing because most of the music acts that really generated the big anti-disco backlash like the Bee Gees were white as a snowflake.

>to quote my father at the time
Not every dadrocker in 1977 was your faggot dad

>Also, I think disco grew to represent the excesses of the 70s...symbolizing a decadent lifestyle that increasingly felt more alien to people suffering through the recession of the late 70s. I think people got to the point where they wanted a more organic-sounding music that they could better connect with. I don't know if the 80s necessarily provided that...but at least some artists (like Bruce Springsteen) seemed ready to capture an audience turned off by disco.
Right. This is also what happened in the early 90s when grunge broke. There was a recession going on and nobody wanted to see some faggot in Beverly Hills posing in a hot tub with strippers. Grunge managed to connect with audiences better than glam metal.

That was because the bee gees were played incessantly on the radio. You literally couldn't escape them - it was to the point where a.m. stations were having 'bee gees free weekends'

Uh huh. And tons of people who didn't know jack about gay culture loathed disco because of the Bee Gees being horribly overplayed and overexposed.

I also don't deny that a lot of rock fans didn't like it because they said it was manufactured electronic crap that took no heart/soul/talent/instrument playing to make.

And let's not forget Nile Rodgers didn't like it either. He may have softened over time, but at the time he hated that Chic got lumped in with the disco acts, when he'd intended them to be sort of an "urban Roxy Music".

Disco does sound pretty gay if you listen to it, and I don't mean in a homophobic way. What started out as a mutation of 60s-70s black music styles ended up as a mass-produced, corporate, white bread brand of music. But was still connected with "black music" by racists.

From a musical standpoint, I see disco as being a bastardization of funk music. Much in the same way that hip-hop and rap are bastardizations of funk music (but that's not the topic of this thread). It's much more clean and way less offensive sounding...very radio friendly. Also it tends to be way poppier, which adds to the radio friendliness. The technicality, musicianship, and feel are all almost non-existent. It doesn't have the nasty groove that funk does. The music is very predictable, cheesy and formulaic...string orchestras predictably inserted. There's not really any blues. Like rap and hip hop, it's pretty much inferior to funk music in every way.

Of course there are a few exceptions to every rule, like The Bee Gees. But even then, songs like Stayin' Alive I'd have trouble considering to be disco.

Forget the gay/black thing. Disco was inherently a social form of music. You go to parties, bump ass, have a few drinks, bring along some girls. That obviously doesn't appeal to /r9k/ neckbeards who listened to Rush in a dark basement.

The problem is most casual listeners judge disco by the pop hits, which is a bit liking judging all rock music based on hearing Nickelback.

There were loads of great producers and artists that just never got heard by mainstream audiences. Look to labels like Salsoul, West End for the real deal. A lot of those records where made by musicians with real chops. The stuff that was played at clubs like The Loft and Paradise Garage by pioneers like David Mancuso and Larry Levan is in another class compared to what most people think of as disco.

I think it was more a case of this really. I'm not really buying into your homophobia argument as the glam movement was dripping with it...and that didn't really seem to bother anyone too much. And soul was huge in the early 70's...right before disco broke out. No problems with any racial boundaries there.

I just think people felt slightly betrayed and shocked when rock and rollers and pop stars started jumping on the bandwagon, and giving up their rock and roll sound in order to get airplay or crossover into previously uncharted territory. (i.e Bowie, Elton, etc.) I think people felt they were selling out.

Along these lines, one of my favorite things about disco is that it was the pinnacle of instrumental virtuosity in pop music. As a tromboner from a family of brass players, those horn parts are insane. After that, electronics began to take over, and pop musicians stopped playing instruments primarily.

Hi-NRG is wonderful, but it lacks the gloriously broken English of Italo disco.

Glam was mostly a British thing. Alice Cooper found out early on that Americans were far more receptive to shock antics than crossdressing dudes. I mean, KISS had a hell of a lot more commercial success than the New York Dolls (nuts to you, Christgau).

I think homophobia was an element of why disco fell, but not the main one. There were a lot of contributing factors, and that one certainly didn't help.

Also, glam was nowhere near as popular as disco.

>Disco didn't suck in Europe or on the US coasts: it just sucked with flyover country rednecks. No surprises there

Partially true. Disco was an urban West Coast/Northeast thing that didn't connect well with people in Texas or Iowa. Studio 54 became so exclusive and elite that Steve Rubell pushed people away unless they were a big-time celeb. Disco became too elitist.

Hey, fuck you kid, Donna Summer is great.

As others have said, its probably due to disco's exposure to the mainstream through the film "Saturday Night Fever". Disco was its own deal, its own scene kind of rolling along, then SNF came out, and it all got really overexposed.

The industry did the same thing ironically again, to less effect, with John Travolta in Urban Cowboy, with country line dancing/mechanical bulling riding in bars, to the masses.

I think folks will buy and go along with a lot, but if it begins to feel like they're being force fed stuff, there will be pushback for sure. Even happened with the old rock dinosaurs, and newer rock acts.

I would disagree that that disco was a fad - two of the biggest artists of the early 80s, Michael Jackson and Madonna, kept that disco groove going right on into the 80s and beyond. So did indie/alternative artists of the 80s such as New Order and Depeche Mode. Disco never went away.

Disco came out US R&B in '71-'73.

Something like Edwin Starr's 'Running Back and Forth (Motown, 1970) is a staging post; or 'You're the One' by Little Sister (Stone Flower, 1970).

By '73 it's recognisable as a style in Love Unltd's Love's Theme' or Harold Melvin's 'The Love I Lost'.

There were European records being played (Crystal Grass, Chachakas, etc) but as curiosities, not major hits.

The European guys didn't really show up 'til 75-76: Moroder, Cerrone, Alec Costandinos; by '78 Eurodisco was everywhere and ABBA had a big part in that.

It got rebranded. It became dance music. Donna summer survived into the 80s. She worked hard for her money. Same with the pointer sisters

>it blended the best elements of Motown, soul, and funk from the 60s-70s along with other elements like Latin, classical, reggae, and blues
personally I don't care about most of those elements on their own, so why would I want them blended?

ABBA's great too.

Again though, growing up in Tennessee I didn't know what a gay person was. The reason we didn't like disco had very little if anything to do with racism or homophobia, in fact all the disco fans I knew were straight white people. We disliked it because it was flamboyant, cheesy, and didn't involve playing a real instrument.

>Liberalism was an urban West Coast/Northeast thing that didn't connect well with people in Texas or Iowa. Washington became so exclusive and elite that Hillary Clinton pushed people away unless they were a big-time celeb. Democrats became too elitist.

Not to derail the thread, just noticed the similarity, carry on.

And also, from what I remember, most blacks were into funk, not disco.

Earl young young and David mancuso were the really big contributors, imho. Morose was also important

*moroder

That's why I said that homophobia played a part in the anti-disco backlash, instead of saying that it was the sole cause of the anti-disco backlash.

This. Disco became a dirty word, so they started to be like "oh, yeah, disco sucks, how about this dance/pop/Hi-NRG instead?"

For further evidence, look at how the word "disco" survived and thrived in Europe throughout the 80s with music that wasn't that much different from what was happening in America.

ebin post

>ywn never ruin normies fun by blowing up their shitty gay dance music while blasting anti-numale macho rock

At least it happened

>flamboyant

So in other words, faggy. Nice contradiction.

Like someone else said, radio stations were playing disco all day every day and rock fans couldn't deal with it because they're oversensitive ninnies.

>didn't involve playing a real instrument
Ironic that this was a widespread enough view when was true.

except it was just a different brand of normie that did that

Pretty hilarious that some were blasting Another One Bites the Dust in these scenarios when that's practically a disco song with a gay singer.

Don't agree. The FM stations in my neck of the woods didn't play any disco at all other than maybe the Rolling Stones' "Miss You". But come on, it's ridiculous to say that rawk wasn't alive and well during the height of disco. It's more like rawk fans couldn't handle anything other than rawk being #1. No different than my grandparents listening to Cab Calloway and Lawrence Welk on repeat back then and acting as if Elvis and Little Richard had never happened, let alone Jimi Hendrix. Same basic stubborn refusal to move out of one's comfort zone.

I can't come to any other conclusion than it's just lousy cookie-cutter music which was, at least visibly, enjoyed primarily by despicable slimy posers with coke spoons around their necks looking to get laid. I can't think of any positive connotation disco brings to mind whatsoever - everything I associate with it is negative. It hasn't aged well, unlike other musical genres (I can still listen to classical, swing, folk, proto-rock, hippie rock, AOR stuff, early hip-hop, etc., but not KC & The Sunshine Band). I have never heard of the so-called "good" disco music artists mentioned in this thread, but this thread has made me think about seeking some of it out just to see if I'm not giving the genre a fair shake.

I agree. Rock didn't go away, but it was sure harder to hear on the radio for a while. Lots of fantastic rock records came out in the late 70s, including Neil Young's "Rust Never Sleeps", one of my personal favorites, but disco owned the airwaves for a couple years.

Of all of the clichés that get trotted out as to why "disco sucks," I find the "it had a repetitive beat"/"anybody could pound out a four-on-the-floor beat" cliché to be perhaps the most hilarious.

Vicki Sue Robinson's "Turn the Beat Around" brought Latin rhythms into the disco mix, The Bee Gees' "Jive Talkin'" got some seriously funky counter-rhythms going on the rhythm guitar and the keyboards on top of the basic disco drumbeat, and the high-hat pulse of disco hits such as "The Love I Lost" owed a great deal to the swing-era jazz style of keeping the rhythm on the ride cymbal.

Not to mention that many of the "disco sucks" crowd seem to have absolutely zero problem with pounding, repetitive four-on-the-floor beat of so many classic Motown 60s hits. Or with the pounding, repetitive four-on-the-floor beat of the Rolling Stones' "Satisfaction." "Satisfaction" is generally regarded as one of the greatest rock and roll songs of all time, if not the greatest, but if you watch any vintage live performance of the Stones playing "Satisfaction," Charlie Watts is just pounding away on the snare drum on every beat in an even more simplistic manner than 99% of "repetitive" disco drum beats. Yet that's the greatest rock and roll song of all time. Precisely because of its brutally repetitive beat, and because of Keith Richard's brutally repetitive and musically moronic three-note guitar riff.

The whole "this music is too simplistic and it takes no talent to play it" was the same canard heard all the way back in the 50s when the adults said that rock-and-roll was noise that didn't require any talent to play.

It's funny how there wasn't any homophobia towards disco or glam, but people were "betrayed" and "shocked" when gay artists such as Bowie and Elton flirted with R&B/soul/disco sounds in the mid-70s? OK. I certainly think it was the case that glam was not as big in the US as it was in the UK - prior to his "plastic soul" makeover with Young Americans, Bowie was big in certain American cities such as LA and Cleveland, but was nowhere near a big a star in the US as a whole as he was in the UK.

I think that very few people are so prejudiced that they will come right out and say "I hate disco because I hate gays and blacks," but it's pretty clear to me, as someone who actually lived through the disco era, albeit as a young child, that homophobia played a part in the anti-disco backlash. The "disco sucks" rallying cry itself carries homophobic overtones.

Elton John had gone from "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" to "Philadelphia Freedom" and "Don't Go Breaking My Heart". I assume his fans felt very sold out especially since they didn't know he was gay. After that, his disco attempts were just pitifully bad IMO. (Bite Your Lip..Get Up And Dance...Argh.) Seriously, what credibility did Elton have to "get down" all of a sudden? That's the problem I think people had with a lot of these artists jumping on the bandwagon. That was my point.

But yes, you guys are obviously correct in that the Glam movement was much bigger in the UK than here in the US.

>I assume his fans felt very sold out especially since they didn't know he was gay

Are you Squidding me? Ok maybe Elton had some macho rock numbers like SNAFF, but other stuff like All The Girls Love Alice should have clued you in. That and of course his outfits.

I mean, think about all the Queen fans who just couldn't believe it that Freddie Mercury was gay.

Freddie Mercury was flaming from the get-go, he never tried to hide it. My mother was friends with a woman who grew up across the street from him.

I mean, you'd think a band named Queen would be about as obvious as Rob Halford wearing bondage gear on stage.

Wasn't he married to a female for a brief bit in the 70s? I always thought of freddie as more of a real life jack harness than a flamer.

There were plenty of reasons why it should have been obvious, especially if you read any interview that FM gave back in the day. I think that part of the backlash against disco was because some disco artists were so overtly gay or appealed to a gay fanbase that it wasn't possible to overlook it, while you could kind of pretend that Freddie Mercury, Lou Reed, Rob Halford, Elton John, David Bowie, etc weren't gay.

What disco acts were gay aside from the Village People who were a manufactured gimmick band anyway?

Sylvester (basically the that DePaul ripped off)
youtu.be/VyAHULpMXKQ

*rupaul

I can't really name a lot of gay disco artists (although I'm sure some were), but the fanbase was definitively very gay, or at least people assumed it was. As we see with artists like Justin Bieber, in a lot of case people don't really hate the artist so much as his/her fanbase (in Bieber's case, tween girls). Often we see that kind of snobbery towards the perceived audience of a particular genre of music encoded right into to the ostensible put-down of the artist in question, as when we see, for example, Garth Brooks referred to as "Wal-Mart country" or REO Speedwagon referred to as "Camaro rock." It's one thing to come right out and say we hate the lower classes who shop at Wal-Mart or drive Camaros, but it's slightly more acceptable to fold that kind of class-based put-down into an aesthetic attack on a genre of music whose (perceived) listeners are the kind of lower-class peons whom we secretly scorn.

Anyway, as we've pointed out, quite a few rock legends like Bowie, Mercury, Halford, etc were gay but somehow redneck rock fans could overlook this fact while mocking disco for being gay, and at the same time disco clubs in the late 70s were the best place for a swinger to pick up chicks. In that sense, it was more of a straight culture than prog or metal which only appealed to angry neckbeard virgins. Not to say some women weren't into the shit, but you were going to find a lot more chicks in your neighborhood disco club than at a Rush concert.

Some of the disco fans were gay. So are some rock fans, and some country fans, and some jazz fans, and some classical fans, and some reggae fans.

>too black
lmao disco is white people's funk

The earlier days of disco when it was semi-underground were a lot better than the commercialized sewage being pumped out in 1978-79 which is really what turned people off. In short, I never really had anything against disco, but I did have problems with the force-feeding of a diet of almost nothing but disco by the media and AM/Top 40 radio.

R&B veterans making bad disco records, rockers making disco records, disco dancing lessons for old people, disco lessons from Jeannie Ernst, rollerskating, Mad Magazine's "Making Out" record, it all became massive overkill.

BTW, Alice Cooper did a very good disco record in 1977. "No More Love At your Convenience" was played on the radio, and I think it was slated for single release, but it never was.

This is true. The media narrative was framed as if disco was the only thing that "the important" people were listening to and buying and that rock music and its' largely blue-collar fans were beneath contempt and not even worthy of acknowledging, unless somebody died at a concert. I saw it as a class division. The media were upper-class and held disdain for the working class who supported rock music.

In short, I never really had anything against disco, but I did have problems with the force-feeding of a diet of almost nothing but disco by the media and AM/Top 40 radio.

That's why the first hip-hop song to go mainstream was also a disco one.

Totally disagree. Bruce Springsteen, the patron saint of blue-collar rock, was on the cover of Time and Newsweek in the same week in 1975. But "The media were upper-class and held disdain for the working class who supported rock music." Right.

In 1979, when disco was dominating the airwaves, Time Magazine put the post-Keith Moon Who on its cover, and declared that they were pushing rock's "outer limits," even though a large part of the band's fanbase at the time probably would have disagreed with that assertion (and still does disagree with it, judging by the number of "The Who should have hung it up after Keith Moon died' comments I've read on this forum over the years). But "there was a concerted effort on the part of the media to ignore rock groups even though they were still clearly a major force in music." Uh huh.

The center of rock journalism in NYC was if anything pushing punk rock as hard they could...Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, etc even though none of these guys got played on the radio. Devo and Patti Smith got on Saturday Night Live, I never recall any disco acts getting that honor.

Everyone sampled chic