/FUG/ General - France, UK, Germany

A place for sharing:
•History,
•Culture,
•Photography,
•Self Improvement Progress,
•Fashion,
•Art,
•Creative writing,
•Poetry.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany
nyaa.pantsu.cat/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

/balt/

Was Brest-litovsk Justified?

Wikipedia:
>In the treaty, Bolshevik Russia ceded the Baltic States to Germany; they were meant to become German vassal states under German princelings. Russia also ceded its province of Kars Oblast in the South Caucasus to the Ottoman Empire and recognized the independence of Ukraine. Furthermore, Russia agreed to pay six billion German gold marks in reparations. Historian Spencer Tucker says, "The German General Staff had formulated extraordinarily harsh terms that shocked even the German negotiator." Congress Poland was not mentioned in the treaty, as Germans refused to recognize the existence of any Polish representatives, which in turn led to Polish protests. When Germans later complained that the Treaty of Versailles of 1919 was too harsh on them, the Allies (and historians favorable to the Allies) responded that it was more benign than Brest-Litovsk.

Uganda Russia
Albania
Finland Armenia Greece

I think I get why Russia is hated by other nations, they are adamant about collectivist politics.

All the other nations at the time just had to see how poor Russia made themselves whilst trying to push their idea onto everyone else.

Simple shit really, how could they let this happen.

What historical happenings towards your nation make you shudder?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

In Taken by Force, J. Robert Lilly estimates the number of rapes committed by U.S. servicemen in Germany to be 11,000. "copulation without conversation is not fraternization" was used as a motto by United States Army troops.[56] The journalist Osmar White, a war correspondent from Australia who served with the American troops during the war, wrote that:

After the fighting moved on to German soil, there was a good deal of rape by combat troops and those immediately following them. The incidence varied between unit and unit according to the attitude of the commanding officer. In some cases offenders were identified, tried by court martial, and punished. The army legal branch was reticent, but admitted that for brutal or perverted sexual offences against German women, some soldiers had been shot – particularly if they happened to be Negroes. Yet I know for a fact that many women were raped by white Americans. No action was taken against the culprits. In one sector a report went round that a certain very distinguished army commander made the wisecrack, 'Copulation without conversation does not constitute fraternisation.'[57]

>As in the eastern sector of the occupation, the number of rapes peaked in 1945, but a high rate of violence against the German and Austrian populations by the Americans lasted at least into the first half of 1946, with five cases of dead German women found in American barracks in May and June 1946 alone.[55]

Carol Huntington writes that the American soldiers who raped German women and then left gifts of food for them may have permitted themselves to view the act as a prostitution rather than rape. Citing the work of a Japanese historian alongside this suggestion, Huntington writes that Japanese women who begged for food "were raped and soldiers sometimes left food for those they raped."

cont.
>French troops took part in the invasion of Germany, and France was assigned an occupation zone in Germany. Perry Biddiscombe quotes the original survey estimates that the French for instance committed "385 rapes in the Constance area; 600 in Bruchsal; and 500 in Freudenstadt."[60] French soldiers were alleged to have committed widespread rape in the Höfingen District near Leonberg.[61] Katz and Kaiser,[62] though they mention rape, found no specific occurrences in either Höfingen or Leonberg compared to other towns.

According to Norman Naimark, French Moroccan troops matched the behavior of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg, providing the numbers are correct.

>French Moroccan troops matched the behavior of Soviet troops when it came to rape
The resulting babies were aborted, right?

>The exact number of German women and girls raped by Soviet troops during the war and occupation is uncertain, but western historians estimate their numbers are likely in the hundreds of thousands, and possibly as many as two million. The number of babies, who came to be known as "Russian Children", born as a result is unknown. However, most rapes did not result in pregnancies, and many pregnancies did not result in the victims giving birth. Abortions were the preferred choice of rape victims, and many died as a consequence of internal injuries after being brutally violated, untreated sexually transmitted diseases due to a lack of medicine, badly performed abortions, and suicides, particularly for traumatized victims who had been raped many times. In addition, many children died in postwar Germany as a result of widespread starvation, scarce supplies, and diseases such as typhus and diphtheria. The infant mortality in Berlin reached up to 90 per cent.

In any case, just as each rape survivor carried the effects of the crime with her till the end of her life, so was the collective anguish nearly unbearable. The social psychology of women and men in the Soviet zone of occupation was marked by the crime of rape from the first days of occupation, through the founding of the GDR in the fall of 1949, until—one could argue—the present.

West Berliners and women of the wartime generation refer to the Soviet War Memorial in Treptower Park, Berlin, as the "tomb of the unknown rapist"

Hannelore Kohl, the wife of former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, had been gang-raped at age 12 by Soviet soldiers in May 1945, according to her biographer. As a consequence, she sustained a serious lifelong back injury after being thrown out of a first-floor window. She had been suffering long and serious illnesses that experts thought of as the consequence of childhood trauma. Hannelore committed suicide in 2001.

I'm still very sore about the whole World War thing, It happened less than 100 years ago, bro. At least humanity has learned from it but jeez..It really makes you shudder how close it was to us.

>puncuating bullet points
literal idiot

Y'know in such calamities you really need a community to accept and support you.

It's your community and how they think of you that matters. We are social creatures in need of social approval.

How did the Germans cope with this trauma?

Makes me think how the world woulda been if we just kept out of WW1 and said to the austrian:
> You want serbia but fight the whole world? We're out!
But fucking wilhelm had to join.

MY KINGDOM FOR A RUSSIAN CUTE

then again
>According to Antony Beevor revenge was not the only reason for the frequent rapes; but the Soviet troops' feeling of entitlement to all types of spoils of war, including women, was an important factor as well. Beevor exemplifies this with his discovery that Soviet troops also raped Soviet and Polish girls and women that were liberated from Nazi concentration camps as well as those who were held for forced labor at farms and factories.[28]

>Richard Overy, a historian from King's College London, has criticized the viewpoint held by the Russians, asserting that they refuse to acknowledge Soviet war crimes committed during the war, "Partly this is because they felt that much of it was justified vengeance against an enemy who committed much worse, and partly it was because they were writing the victors' history."[29]

>Historian Geoffrey Roberts writes that the Red Army raped women in every country they passed through, but mostly in Austria and Germany: 70,000–100,000 rapes in Vienna, and "hundreds of thousands" of rapes in Germany. He notes that the German Army probably committed tens of thousands of rapes on the Eastern Front, but that murder was the more typical crime for them.[30]
Russians are literally animal subhumans
Deadsilence, you couldnt speak about it without people saying the holocaust was worse. Also most women didnt want to talk about it of course.

>He notes that the German Army probably committed tens of thousands of rapes on the Eastern Front, but that murder was the more typical crime for them.

>Russians are literally animal subhumans

National Soc led you to murder civilians, I'd say that's more a lot more sinister than rape.

Pic related, from soviet war film. German paratroopers murdered this kids entire village. This is HFW.

I am Breton and I want to be in the UK!

How many children do you want to have?


>soviet war films

2
When our country finally support big families it will be like 4

>> You want serbia but fight the whole world? We're out!
>But fucking wilhelm had to join.
It's a lot more complex than that. There are historians who believe the outbreak of WWI may be the most complex event in all of world history.

What was it like in France after these Terror attacks and how do you feel now about it?

You must be a paranoid nation.

> •Culture
It's part of German culture to be quiet in public transport. Is that a thing in your countries too?

>When our country finally support big families it will be like 4
What do you expect?

In berlin people casually talk on bus and train, but never too loud.
We are not autists like finns who are almost literally mute.
nothing. This country just doesnt have its priorities set.

>nothing
You're misunderstanding me. I was asking what would constitute a proper state support for big families in your mind.

Didn't Merkel just recently say say multiculturalism failed in Germany.


And secondly the Germans are conformist and shun those who are not. I'd say your priorities are better than a lot of other countries.

>Didn't Merkel just recently say say multiculturalism failed in Germany.
Yes, but that doesn't mean she's against immigration. It simply means that successful integration is nothing else but almost complete assimilation. In other words her goal is to make the Syrians proper Germans. Just like we did with the Ruhrpoles.

something like the opposite of what china did to lower child births.

An assimilation program. Finally!

And like wise the German people should also work to prod new comers into German culture through something like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Its rewarding positive behaviour and shunning negative.

That's so unspecific as can possibly be. Is it that you don't actually know what you want but just feel uneasy and uncomfortable, like a contrarian teen?

wow that picture makes my blood boil. jesus christ... good propaganda 2bh.

> In berlin people casually talk on bus and train, but never too loud.
> We are not autists like finns who are almost literally mute.
Woah, it's almost like that's the reason why I wrote "quiet" and not "silent".

It's a complex issue how to make integration work. It's an interdisciplinary field of research. We know that employment makes up the single biggest puzzle piece in this riddle and we're good in this department. But it's not everything. And we're still trying to figure out the rest. Language obviously is very important too.
Crusial will be to make them accept our set of values, which, admittedly will be more difficult than with the Poles in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Lower taxes for big families, whats left to say?
> Is it that you don't actually know what you want but just feel uneasy and uncomfortable, like a contrarian teen?
>this entire sentence
No need to get insulting

>Lower taxes for big families
And what is the difference, financially, between not having to pay taxes and getting Kindergeld?
In both cases your financial situation is being eased by the state at the expense of those who don't have children.

Sorry, I don't believe that you want to have children at all. Not seriously. To me you appear like the typical case of "verbale Aufgeschlossenheit bei weitgehender Verhaltensstarre"

>Crucial will be to make them accept our set of values, which, admittedly will be more difficult than with the Poles in the late 19th and early 20th century.

This mostly applies to women and what they can wear etc. I don't see it as such a hard moral lesson to come to terms with. Perhaps teaching the diversity of world cultures throughout the ages, along with their norms would work to put it all into perspective.

The immigrants believe German culture is morally wrong, but they could easily accept to live along side it without causing a fuss.

>lower taxes for big families

Oh God please don't. This is a great way tip the scale in favour of the uneducated leeches of society.

>This mostly applies to women and what they can wear etc.
It's also things like religious freedom, meaning not only freedom to practice religion but also to be free from relgion. The entire notion of a modern secular state that religion has to be a private matter.

Equal rights, sexual freedom etc are also big things that are not easy for people of that culture to adapt to. Democracy is easy. They dig that, but the cultural stuff is more difficult. But it's important for the overall success of assimilation. Because otherwise they will form parrallel societies.

Then how would you encourage people to breed?
Money is one of the biggest reasons why people don't want to have more than 2 children.
And what is your fixation with me being some kind of evil person? Can't you hold a normal argumentation without going ad hominem at the end of every post?

How do you feel about my proposal to educate immigrants with history lessons on the various cultural norms of the world and how normal it is to be different?

I can't think of another way you could convince an immigrant to accept your culture without putting it into context why they should except it.

>Then how would you encourage people to breed?

Definitely not through lower taxes because of But there are a number of ways, all as important as each other.

-Maternity pay
-Higher paying jobs (better economy)
-A invigorated culture, by that I mean more community orientated events to increase social relations between strangers and neighbours.

>Then how would you encourage people to breed?
I don't know. I even doubt there is somebody in the world who knows this. I would like to see a serious effort of the state to fund science into really finding out what makes eople in modern societies have many children. A true Apollo program, if you will. Because IMO it's the most imortant question of our time. And it's being neglected by politics and the populace for half a century now.

I don't believe in the economic argument. It was in the late sixties, early seventies when birthrates dropped like a stone (pic related). But this was a time of economic success, before the hurricanes of technilogical progress and, to a far lesser extent, globalization caused the big unemployment problems with the strutural change that came with them.
It were in fact social changes that made people want to have less kids. We obviously can't roll those changes back. So we need to find out how make people want more kids within this new environment.

Yes, this is necessary. And the earlier the better, even if it means to hold those lessons in their language rather than ours.

Franco-German war was brutal for the french.

To follow up on this. I know of some research, mainly comparisons between European countries. It seems that giving women more options with full kindergarden coverage etc helps, as well as sharing the burden of raising, which the state can influence by making parental money you get for the first weeks and months after birth forfeit if the father doesn't take parental leave too, like is done in Sweden e.g.

But 2bh, even though this does help to raise birth rates from German levels of ~1.4 to Scandinavian or French levels of ~1.8-1.9, it's still not enough, because what matter is the number before the decimal point.

>Those low birth rates

Well now it makes sense why you have an Einwanderungpolitiks as you do

I think many people still don't realize that if we do nothing we are crashing head first into a concrete wall.
We spend €600bn annually on families, that's a fifth of our entire GDP with next to no effect. Time to try something different.

The occupation was way more brutal than the war though

Im interested
Mind telling more?

My Great Granddad who was in the war always told me we needed another big war.

4+

>nyaa is gone for good

nyaa.pantsu.cat/

I like this general. But shouldn't we invite Spaniards and Russians too?

italians would be the closest option

Poland should be in it.

I see. But I thought we could make this a Europe's Big Five (UK, France, Spain, Germany, Russia) thread


NEIN

I have a personal story (well kind of, it's my grandpa's) to tell.
Merely an anecdote, but hey, it's Sup Forums.

My grandpa (born in 1920) was enrolled (or volunteered, I never knew how this happenned) after the surrender in what was then called Chantiers de jeunesse. It was a creation of Pétain who wanted to create a paramilitary troop of youths, that would be of use, for or against the Germans, I'm pretty sure he hadn't a clue at the time. The primary intention of their creation was pretty much gray (they had a cult of the leader, namely this good maréchal), but it soon came as a home to many movements of resistance, in particulary in the Alps.
In 1944, when the Wehrmacht invaded the so-called France libre after Unternehmen Anton, my grandpa, who was a trooper in the Chantiers de Jeunesse in the Alps, happened to be together in the bad place at the bad moment when an occupation group decided to investigate the village where he lived near Aspremont.

All members of the chantiers de jeunesse were arrested in the village in front of my grandpa's house, it was the last house before a big slope that leaded to a heavy forest were the rest of the camp was.
All were arrested at gunpoint, but my grandpa's cousin, who was likely involved in some sabotage operation, took his chance on the slope. It took no more than a single gun-fire to shoot him dead. Everybody was arrested, they took the cousin and my grandpa's mother searched for his spectacles. They were never to be found. My grandpa moved in town after the war.

Fas forward in 2006, my grandpa (86 years then) did a visit with his two sons at his family house ; he was showing them around where this all happenned, when he saw a glittering in the slope. My father went back with a pair of glasses.

No offence but did he have a cushy post?

No, he was in the infantry and fought in France/Netherlands/Germany.

Thank you for sharing your touching story.
My grandfather was born in 1920 too and fought in France in 1940 and then again in 1944

>and then again in 1944
My Granddad might have tried to kill your Granddad.

I am very glad both missed their targets.

Feels standard. Strikes and self-destruction are in our DNA.

You're welcome, my grandpa was born on 10 may 1920 and he was having his 20year birthday as Guderian's panzers strolled through the Ardennes.
He doesn't like to speak about that period, I don't know what he did specifically before the Liberation, but I understood he was somehow implied in minor stuff. Never heard him hold a grudge about Germans or Italians, though.

He's still alive and very scared about the future of Europe and always tells about how he doesn't want our generation to experience it anymore.

As for your grandpa, he can consider to be lucky if he only fought in France and not in Russia where the conditions were terrible.

In fact we merely think about it daily, only when in shopping malls or when the place is crowded.
The first thing I personnally do when I come in a place is search for a backdoor to escape if it was needed.

If they wanted us to be fucked they would snipe Marine le Pen, it would be a fucking bloodbath in the political scene.

This.

How long does it take the learn French? I've tried to learn German a few times but I get too frustrated having to remember der/die/das/er/sie/es and all the suffixes it requires

Agree.

French vocabulary has a lot of overlap with English so that is probably the best advantage. French is still a language with genders though so I don't think this will change much.

He fought in Russia, lost two toes due to frost bite and was heavily wounded in 1943 but he survived. He was hospitalized in Germany and when he was ready-enough for the Eastern Front he was first sent to France for a two month long military exercise. That was in June 1944 - in the greater Normandy. But in the end he survived the war, maybe it was the landing in the Normandy that saved his life because he hadn't had to return to the Eastern Front.

He is dead now, but you can be very lucky to still have yours and I hope you still can learn from him. Ask him your questions, because everyone's time is unlasting. Hopefully you'll have some more years together.
And I am too very concerned about the future of Europe. Many things are changing these days- ant not for the better.

Stop whatever you are doing and drop a picture of somewhere beautiful in your country

...

Brits, do you actually know that the Bretagne (/Brittany) is also called Klein Britannien (Little Britain) in Germany?

...

No.

>Brittany

KILL
I
L
L

Most germans don't even know that, its a pretty dated term.

Thanks user

Britain's turn now

Love u guys

Thanks I love myself too

...

...

Classic but doesn't get old
I'd visit Scotland first but Wales looks good too
i've already been to Britain but didn't see much beside London

Most people who are born in London never leave the city unless they are going to another country

...

That's your own Mont Saint Michel I believe, it reminds me the French guy in the ISS took a picture of the French one from space with the shadow of the abbey it's pretty cool

Shit map

are bretons different from the french in noticeable ways? like physically or culturally?

Bretons are cucks and darkies, and they're women are coalburners as well

I don't see any qualities to them aside theystill A BIT tribalistic

:^((( my family comes from there and im like olive skinned and shit. I look like a jew almost. but I've heard that brittany is really cool and there's a lot of cool historic stuff you can go see there and what not. plus the invented crepes? not bad 2bh not bad.

*Mysteriously walks towards you*

>physically

I don't think so, French people are already very diverse as far as looks go

>culturally
Yeah they are pretty anal about muh unique celtic culture but then again every French region has its own identity

>but I've heard that brittany is really cool and there's a lot of cool historic stuff you can go see there and what not

Same, can be said for every place here. There are excellent castles, old towns and other landmarks in Brittany as well as beautiful landscapes at the Atlantic coast but no more than other regions desu
/fr/ dislike them because it's a very leftist region

*opens third eye*

why do the french pronounce sphinx as sphonx?

They don't
Well that was easy

ok
well why is it pronounced that way in that song by La Femme ?

Hold on I'll listen to it in a minute

god I love that fucking band... seriously I haven't heard catchier songs in my life.

Alright I just did and she doesn't pronounce it like "sphonx" at all tbf, she does it like a normal French person that is "sphynx"
Maybe you think "sphynx" is pronounced differently and it sound a bit like "sphonx" but it's the proper way