Seriously, FUCK Manhattan and Adrian "killer of millions" Veidt.
FUCK THEM
AND SERIOUSLY FUCK MAHATTAN FOR KILLING RORSCHACH, MAKING THE ENTIRE MOVIE A DEPRESSING ORDREAL>
ALso slightly fuck nighthawk and mcslut slutwoman for not reporting their experience and staying happy.
FUCK ALL OF THEM, RORSCHACH WAS THE ONLY GOOD GUY IN THE MOVIE!
He wasn't exacatly a good guy but he was a decent man in indecent times.
What did he mean by this?
It was a sad scene :(
Despite the fact that Manhattan can see the future and is fully aware Veidt's plan ultimately fails, he still killed Rorschach.
Because Rorschach asked him to do it.
well, rorschach fought for truth but veidt fought for world peace
you can't have both
Manhattan was so childish. His only "stake" in the world is some dumb slut who couldn't possibly stimulate his mind, and yet he still let his dick rule his decisions.
1) veidt's plan didn't fail
2) manhattan couldn't see the future because veidt used tachions to blurr his visions
3) he killed rorschach because he would have told people the truth and then veidt's plans
would have been uselss and millions people died for nothing
did you even watch the movie you faggot ?
You can't have either.
Veidt fails.
Yeah, it's almost as if he was still a dude who fell for some jailbait and left his wife.
>not understanding the concept of the greater good
This is why you are a burden on society
Rorschach wanted to die because he knew he was wrong.
Rorschach was stopped so he wouldn't tell, right?
It's all out there, he left his journal so it would get out regardless.
Manhattan couldn't see the future while the Tachyons were being emitted, that stopped, and we know Manhattan is aware of Veidt's ultimate failure because he tells him. Veidt is full of himself and Manhattan almost laughs at his naivete.
They were useless. Veidt is exposed. You should have seen the ending, user.
He was a principled man. He was far from decent.
Rorschach diying as a Rorschach's image.
POTTERY, ZACK DID IT AGAIN
What do you see guys, a butterfly or an skullhead?
It ended up in some neonazi magazine's office. Would you believe "the truth" if it was Sup Forums telling about it?
>veidt used tachions to blurr his visions
How specifically did he do this? Wouldn't Manhatten see him planning to use them and doing tests and shit?
Nobody ever suggests that Veidt's plan is a permanent fix, it just pulls them back from the brink which they were teetering over. Veidt himself may have believed that his peace would last longer than it ultimately will considering Rorschach's journal getting out but the initial plan that actually saved the world succeeded.
Sup Forums isn't the same thing. This is a national magazine. With the truth about all that happened in detail.
And the journal contains information on many other things that can also be verified.
Try not to be glib about such a significant scene in the movie.
You only have to look at how our current media works to see how often the truth can be covered up. You think the world smartest man who engineered a million deaths can't outsmart some papers or buy them over?
It was a cold war.
But Veidt himself created the tipping point in which the Russians became much more aggressive by removing Manhattan.
Veidt's actions made a possible yet unlikely war something imminent. And then he took credit for stopping it.
Manhatten is not as omniscient and infallible as everyone thinks, that's his entire arc
DC changed that in the new 52 tho
Lol are u chris?
I had a friend angrily swear and shout at the ending of watchmen as we left the theatre
>our current media
But we're looking at another world's media in a timeline almost forty years behind our own.
And we're talking about information exposing what has been the biggest historical upheaval of their century.
Yeah, no.
>character's name is rorschach
>leaves an actual rorschach when he dies
>poetry
why did i only just notice this
You should read the comic.
Before the era of Internet and the ease of information dissemination? Enjoy sleeping with the fishes thinking you can reveal a truth that everyone in power and veidt has a vested interest in keeping covered.
>It was a cold war.
About to go hot, divergent timelines, the comic makes it much more apparent that things were heading towards inevitable nuclear war since the 50s where in the real world we moved steadily away from it
>But Veidt himself created the tipping point in which the Russians became much more aggressive by removing Manhattan.
That's a stretch, not only is that not at all what is shown to happen and therefor an assumption on your part, it's also not particularly likely. The American government is trying to avoid nuclear war much the same as the Russians, every move anyone made just hurried its arrival so they were doing nothing, but the timer was still counting down.
The success of Veidt's plan essentially set the timer back to zero and gave both parties a chance to escape the deadlock, the implication (immediately signing various peace deals) is they jump at this chance and wont soon fall back into hostilities on a nuclear level.
OMNIPOTENT SATANIC BLUE SUPERMAN ACTING AS A HITMAN FOR A SECRET TERRORIST PLOT DESIGNED TO KILL MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS IN THE NAME OF PEACE
Not at all.
The US is now subjugated to the USSR through foreign aid and the loss of their financial center.
They are also under the thumb of the billionaire industrialist who was ready for this to happen and capitalize and who was also responsible for it all.
The entire planet lives in fear of a godlike entity who may at any time destroy millions.
And you think there wouldn't be an interest from US leadership in revealing all this?
Say they reveal it. Then what? They go to war with ussr? Is that their interest?
Our current planet lives in fear of terrorist and see how many absurb bills and acts they were allowed to push through.
Revealing the plan will gain USA zero benefits. Better keep the status quo. Like how USA discovered Saudi was behind 9/11 and declined to reveal it for so long.
Watchmen was ruined by sheer mediocrity.
The achilles-fucking-heel of the movie was the SOUNDTRACK.
Holy shit.
The movie starts as the comic starts, with the dramatic murder of the character known as The Comedian. Shot very well, very stylish. Soundtrack: Unforgettable by Nat King Cole. Hmm… The ironic use of a touching old-timey ballad to contrast with the disturbing on-screen content. It worked when Terry Gilliam used What a Wonderful World at the end of Twelve Monkeys, but the dramatic effect of this technique has lessened ever since. But, fuck it, it’s the beginning of the movie, I’ll give it a shot, fine.
Next, opening credits. Song choice: The Times They Are A’Changing by Bob Dylan. In its entirety… Ok now. This is getting kinda Gumpy. Please tell me this isn’t going to be one of those Time Life soundtracks where they use blatantly iconic songs from the 20th century in a lazy attempt to give weight to the scenes…
That’s exactly what the entire movie was.
Every time I would be digging the film’s many awesome qualities, they’d plug in these tired movie music clichés.
IE:
Sound of Silence – Simon & Garfunkle: during a wistful ponderous scene
All Along the Watchtower – Jimi Hendrix: during an intense suspenseful scene
Ride of the Valkyries – Wagner: During a war scene
Mozart Requiem: After a main character dies…
Guh… and the rest.
The absolute worst though: Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah during a graphic sex scene. No, not one of the many awesome, sexy covers of this song. The Leonard Cohen version. Now, I love this version, but it’s anything but sexy. It made the entire audience view the sex scene as a joke. It was almost grotesque.
In all seriousness, during the moments when these songs were used (usually in their entirety!) it brought this highly polished professional film down to the level of a high school class project. They were an awkward blight that pulled a well-crafted film into the depths of banality.
It wasn't about to go hot.
There was no stretch.
Manhattan was the ultimate deterrent. There would be no war, no instigation when he was around.
By taking him out, he made him a common threat to eventually unite them, but first he made things perilous enough that through everyone's fear of annihilation his alternative would be welcome.
It really is simple, it's all there. He made a common enemy to unite them and once it's learned that was a lie, it'll be worse than before, since the US doesn't have their deterrent.
So long as Dr Manhattan existed it won't have went hot or if it did, it would be the complete annihilation of the ussr
This.
Quite a beautiful detail.
They reveal it, go after Adrian and liquidate all his assets to pay for reconstruction so that they won't depend on the USSR's aid.
There a billionaire behind it all. There's a real enemy. A fucking supervillain. You remember how heroes were made into scapegoats? It'll be worse.
Then they go to war with ussr? Nah. They might go after veidt secretly but to the public? Never. Announcing a threat and losing your best nuclear deterrent while financially behind to ussr is suicide.
the comics don't have this detail funny enough.
actually they do, it is just sideways
Then they have a real cold war.
USSR in Afghanistan.
CIA right behind.
All that jazz.
Dude. There is no deterrent now. Simply because Manhattan is a common enemy doesn't mean disputes or conflicts won't happen. They can go after Veidt, or stay in a weaker position.
All Veidt accomplished was taking away the safety net.
...
You think the USA wants a cold war?
Please show me the page because last time I saw it, it was not there.
More like fuck Snyder for making so many autists such as yourself get the complete wrong idea about many of the important characters and events.
>RORSCHACH WAS A GOOD GUY!
>OZY DID NOTHING WRONG!
How the fuck would manhattan know? He leaves Earth, most likely forever, he can't know a future he wasn't there to witness.
Thermo-nuclear war is heavily implied to have not been something that would have happened if Ozy did nothing.
I think it doesn't matter if it wants it or not.
The USSR will smell blood once they know thwrenisnt a big bad boogeyman out there.
He knows because at some point in the future he finds out. That's how he works. He still operates as if he hasn't found out yet.
And it was much more heavily implied once faith in Manhattan began to wane due to the cancer claims.
Yes it was, and Manhattan was the reason why the situation was escalating in the first place. The US touted him as their ultimate weapon but...
This point is addressed directly by Manhattan himself, he says he can only stop so many nukes at once, if both sides went all out he wouldn't be able to do enough by himself to save humanity from extinction.
You could argue the Russians didn't know this, hence the American media hype and propaganda around Manhattan being a literal god (omniscient and omnipotent) but if that was the case, surely they would have disarmed and surrendered as soon as Manhattan came on to the scene? They saw him wiping out the Vietnamese for the American military with little effort, so if they were going to back down why haven't they? How can Manhattan be the deterrent if the situation still getting worse?
You also entirely ignored my point that nobody actually wanted nuclear war, the Russians were not the mad aggressors you're making them out to be at all. The whole reason for the cold war in reality was that nobody wanted to lose face by being the one to back down first, once Veidt's subterfuge is revealed (even if we assume that it is A. taken seriously, which it may well not be considering that proving Rorschach was mentally unstable would be as easy as digging up his readily available medical records from his prison time and B. not simply put down as another conspiracy theory because people would rather believe the convenient lie), the Russians aren't just going to jump back into the suicidal position they only just narrowly escaped from. If you honestly think they would, why?
fascist
>He knows because at some point in the future he finds out.
How? Like I said, he leaves Earth and presumably never returns. How can he find out something he has no possible way of finding out?
His ability to see the future is based on the fact that he is living every single moment of his life simultaneously, instead of in a continuous line. He can't see the future for something he isn't there to see.
Rorschach had autism.
And like the sperg he was he sperged out and was put on the nauhty step.
No one wants Nuclear War.
But no one wants to be the second party to push the button.
Manhattan was the reason it stayed cold.
The US and their arrogant displays of power like fucking flying jets over the Kremlin because fuck you I have Manhattan, that's what was escalating shit.
>presumably
There you go.
Now I infer he knows that's not the end due to his conversation with a gloating Adrian where he says just that. You can claim he was just trying to be ominous and saying everything is infinite or whatever, despite the fact he knows things are not. If you want.
You know the rest of his journal is basically the answer to a bunch of cold cases and can pretty much all be verified, right? I mean, sure, he's crazy, but you can prove the shit he wrote down happened.
Adrian's last words to Ozy are about a dream that has been haunting him, which directly ties him to be paralleled to the pirate story, implying that he fucked up.
I say presumably because that's what makes complete sense when looking at Manhattan's arc as a character. He's completely lost his humanity, there is nothing left on Earth for him. But he is newly fascinated with the intricacies of what life is and says that he might even create some himself somewhere else in the universe. It's highly unlikely that he ever came back to Earth because the character has no reason to ever do so.
The truth will remain a conspiracy at best. The guy who murdered a million people and outsmarted someone who is literally almost God isn't going to let some rumor by who society views as insane ruin his masterplan. The point of the journal is that while the truth is out there, people like veidt have an interest in seppressing it. You know kinda like in our reality as well?
>Adrian's last words to Ozy
To manhattan* god damn it.
>plebs treating the New Frontiersman journal reveal at the end like its an open ending
The secret is out. It's the whole reason for the scene.
>1) veidt's plan didn't fail
In the edgelord Hack Snyder flick it doesn't, but
>Nothing ever ends, Adrian
Not that much sense.
His arc is him getting away from humanity and then finally seeing it's value again, and within himself.
And because of this you presume he'll never check up on Earth again.
I don't reach the same conclusion.
The secret is out to a small right wing paper which is known for posting crackpot theories. Its an ambiguous ending son, im sorry.
The secret is out but it will be suppressed like how in our own reality the truth is often suppressed. An email scandal comes to mind.
>it's a millenials can only see events in a story through the lens of their own time episode.
I'm skipping this one, its filler.
He can only see his own future, and he left hearth, so...
Do you have an image communicating a similar message with Vin Diesel and Paul Walker?
There's a few of them but I can't find them anywhere.
>Sup Forums moralbabbys got a boner for le epix xd rorshak
lmao
>Ride of the Valkyries – Wagner: During a war scene
This was the worst one for me. I thought I was watching a parody
>Governments never surpressed the truth in the past
I refuse to believe anyone is this stupid
>AND SERIOUSLY FUCK MAHATTAN FOR KILLING RORSCHACH, MAKING THE ENTIRE MOVIE A DEPRESSING ORDREAL
If you weren't already depressed by this point in the movie, you clearly didn't understand it
...
the comic is even worst with that 'alien/mutant whatever menace and now all people are happy because there is a common enemy"
...
@@74362136
Here, have a (you). Oops...
You have to imagine the escalation like a scale for the potential success of any violence of action. Let's say the US and the USSR both start at 0 and that to succeed one side has to have 100 more than the other side, so the US moves some hardware around and gains 25, and the USSR to save face matches them and then doubles down with twice as many ships, so they're on 50, the US retaliates in kind and so on.
Every time a new manoeuvre gains a bit of ground for one side the opposition races to meet them and the more firepower you put behind it the worse the situation gets, until you reach the point where both sides have nothing else left to give, all out hostilities begin and you've got a nuclear war.
Manhattans presence in the US meant they were basically constantly gaining points by doing nothing at all and were feeling high and mighty because of it. The USSR had gone from equal opposition to cornered animal and were getting more and more desperate as time went by, but believed if they backed down that the US would simply have Manhattan destroy them anyway. If they de-escalated they would die, if they kept escalating the situation they would die, but maybe, if it turned out Manhattan wasn't as powerful as the US claimed (you can't except the USSR to take US propaganda without a pinch of salt), they could actually inflict some casualties in the US too.
Manhattans presence was the numero uno factor in the situation getting worse. Veidt's plan succeeded not because he joined the world against Manhattan but because Manhattan left Earth. The point is similar to that of Dr. Strangelove, nuclear armament cannot be solved by superweapons because being dead by nuke or being dead by super nuke are the exact same thing. If you honestly read it that Manhattan was doing anything positive at all, save maybe for killing Rorschach at the very end, you read it wrong.
Most of these song choice are from the comic, where every chapter ends with a quote from a song. I agree that he stuck to this way too hard which is kind of Snyder's overall problem. Plus he should have gone with the Dylan version of Watchtower.
The only scandal is dumb shits like you being able to vote. Both options are fucking shit.
Enjoy your Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich, faggot.
The comic is even more depressing, more fucked up, the girls are also sluttier
>missing the point
fuck off, commie
T-this scene wasn't in my copy....
Sadly, no, my friend.
People do not call me Chris.
My name is Richard Rahl, Wizard of the first order, The seeker of Truth and The mate of the Mother Confessor herself, Kahlan Amnell.
The intensity of Hendrix's version was more appropriate for the intensity of the scene. Dylan's would have been more appropriate had the scene lacked action, but it didn't and so I understand the Hendrix pick.
Also two songs by the same artist and you're helping people sharpen any complaints about how creatively you're using the tracks.
>Rorschach was in the right
I don't have one saved, so just imagine I posted an image of an unkempt late-teens, early twenties fat chap adjusting his antiquated headwear.
He was in the right from a certain point of view.
Unfortunately in that scene he was up against somebody who was taller than he. Who undeniably had the moral high ground.
Nice digits as well my friend, this sub is certainly seeing a lot of them.
>le ad hominem
Only faggots don't use ad hominem
>Would you believe "the truth" if it was Sup Forums telling about it?
Yes? Sup Forums has been factually correct countless times.
spoken like a true faggot
That doesn't even make sense
I agree that the score was a bit too much and dragged out for no particular reason.
I think that it's a pretty good movie, however. Much better than the Snyder DC movies in fact.
They also lie more frequently than any other group of people that exists, you moron. Telling the truth only if you can use it to push your political agenda is not even a single step towards honesty.
is it on a different page?
it's a reference to apocalypse now
That is not quite the same at all. I see no intent to make an actual rorshach image.
Movie did Rorschach's death MUCH fucking better imho. In the comics Nite Owl and Silk Spectre fuck while he gets killed lmao what a fucking retarded scene.
that's what i'm saying. i don't remember the rorschach blood stain in the comic, and it's not on that page. so unless it's on a different page, i think it was just for the movie
That's the point moron its a morally grey movie its supposed to make you think. Your supoosed to like rorshach because he's the only one who pursues truth and justice
Retarded opinion of a Snyderchild.
Obviously the book version is better and yet you can't see it, because you need the bastardization of a character screaming no. Pfft
Manhattan can only see the future in as far as things he directly sees anyway. He says so in the interview at the beginning, even saying he's not omnipotent
*tips fedora*
>It was a cold war.
Its called such because there wasn't any conflict between the main belligerents, but plenty of blood was shed because of the Cold War.
Like Vietnam, which was depicted in this very fucking movie. And as other have pointed out, nuclear war seemed more and more inevitable
Yeah, fuck him. Before Rorschach's death the movie was a decent lighthearted comedy.
Alan Moore has a huge boner for ambiguity. In terms of narrative and morals