Let's say God does exist. Do you think it would be a man or a woman an why...

Let's say God does exist. Do you think it would be a man or a woman an why? Do you even think it would be in the form of a human? Why doesn't the devil just make his/it's own heaven, down in hell? Why does he/it choose to suffer? Why did God give the Devil powers to begin with, if he knew he's rebel and try to create a war.
>Answer me niggers

What if God is both?

>Do you think it would be a man or a woman an why?
Neither.
Do you even think it would be in the form of a human?
No.
Why doesn't the devil just make his/it's own heaven, down in hell?
Because the devil doesn't have any power in hell. He is currently in this world and will be tested and punished like the rest of us.
Why does he/it choose to suffer?
Because he is arrogant
Why did God give the Devil powers to begin with, if he knew he's rebel and try to create a war.
There is no competition between the devil and God.

That's what i get for phoneposting I guess.

>tested and punished like the rest of us
By who? And to what degree?

Those doing the punishing are angels, and the degree and length of the punishment depends on how much you deserve it.

I think I should really cook your brain ITT.
First off, do you think the devil, Lucifer, Satan, whatever you want to call him... do you think he's stupid? Do you think he's an idiot?

I don't know any Christian who would think that he is.

So Lucifer knows what he's up against. He knows how this all ends. Yet, Lucifer still does all this shit, right?
Or does he?

Look at the very beginning of the book of Job. Where is Satan? In heaven.... not just in heaven, but right in Gods throne room.
This is AFTER he was cast out of Heaven - banished.
Yet, there he is. not just in Heaven, but in the very center of it all - God's own throne room.

Now take a look at how they talk to one another. Does that sound like mortal enemies destined for a Biblical clash of titans?
no.
They sound like old friends, greeting one another at the end of work. No anger that Satan - who was supposedly banished - is in Gods own throne room. No accusations or incriminations, nothing like that.
Does that sound like the words of hated enemies?
Now let's set that aside, for a moment.
Con't..

Let me suggest something, based off what you've mentioned. What if they're one in the same.
>implying he exists

I'm no where near religious but I still find amazing stuff in the bible. There are good things to take away from it.

I think that Satan isn't doing anything besides telling God he doesn't agree with him (or it, whatever I'll just call him he)
Satan probably knew how it would end for him and that he wouldn't come out on top but still takes a stance because that's what he believes in.

Cont.

Do you think God is all knowing, like the Bible says?
Let's assume God is.
Which means, God knows everything. Including all that a being will do - before he ever does it.
Before God creates that being.
So God knew everything that Satan would do
Before God even created Satan. And yet, God does it anyway.
It also means God knew everything that Judas would do, before he created Judas.
And God knows all the evil each and every man will do, before he created them.
Including Hitler, including Stalin, Including Dr. Mengele, Jack the Ripper, Manson, Jim Jones....
But lets concentrate on Judas and Lucifer.

Both are called 'evil', and are probably the two most hated characters in the world. Yet, everything they did was done with the full knowledge of God. God made them.

Do you think God is stupid? Do you think God is ignorant?
no?
Then God created both Lucifer and Judas fully aware of what each would do. And He created them anyway. Which implies everything they do is part of Gods plan.
Yes, God intended there to be fallen angels. God planned it. He had it all planned out before he even created Lucifer. God had it all worked out before he even created Judas.

The truth is - Both are working for HIM.

Now let's go back to the book of Job.
Why are they buddies? Because Satan is working for God. Everything he did was in the service of God. And Satan knows it too. Which is why neither one seems to bear any grudge against the other.

And if the whole rebellion in Heaven was all planned out, it means it was all just a kabuki dance - a charade. But a charade for whom?

It means the whole "war of good vs. evil" was all staged for our benefit. The truth is, there really is no war. Both sides are just playing a role they were all created to play. The only fools are those humans who think they're partaking in some epic war between good and evil.

Interesting viewpoint

I'd like to disagree with the whole "working for him" thing. Feel free to tell me if I'm flat out wrong.

However I think that God and Satan have a very professional yet competitive relationship. Satan disagreed with God, so he basically left, and God left him leave. I think God was almost up for the challenge or debate because immediately eliminating him for disagreeing would almost be an admission of immorality.

But God had to know the confrontation would split the hosts of heaven. God knew how this would play out.... and still created Lucifer.
And since he created lucifer fully knowing he would start a rebellion, doesn't that imply that God planned the rebellion?

I'm no Bible buff but wasn't the thing with Angels that they didn't have free will? At what point does that change?

Another good point which falls right into place with my POV.
However, I'm not quite certain where in the Bible it says that. I know many denominations believe it. But I've read no in-depth treaties on exactly how much free will angels have.

I guess it does. Let me ask you - what benefit does staging a war between good and evil have?
That question is the main reason I think the staging thing is false; I could be wrong and am willing to be wrong however.

I'm not sure why he would create Lucifer if he knew he would start a rebellion. Conflict and free will go hand in hand. Maybe he knew that there was no way there was going to be a perfect world and thus let Lucifer live.

The bible does not really state whether or not angels have free will.

I think most of you are forgetting the point. If it does play out the way Christians say, then the Devil rules hell and chooses to torment souls that God has punished. Why? Why not make it his own heaven the way he saw fit? One user said that he's powerless in hell. How?

That wouldn't be far from the truth. There has to be conflict here on Earth. If there were no conflict between good and evil, there how would good and evil people emerge? How would there be goats and sheep if there's never any opportunity to act like either? There's no compare and contrast without that conflict.

The Bible repeatedly says Satan ends up in hell, not as a ruler, but rather as another inmate. Satan is as tormented as all the rest in the end. According to the Bible, God rules over Hell just as He rules over Heaven and Earth.

a boy, he is a lazy boy who got a c+ for his simulated universe and our universe is next to the one with a ribbon on it and that is way better than ours.

So what you're saying is that if there is a God, it's just a narcissistic dick?

Do any of you feel like sometimes you're punished when you do something wrong? Not like getting caught by someone else, doing something. But, in terms of morals and "karma." Kind of like Fallout.

No.
Many people think this and I believe it's wrong because we are but his creation if it's true.
What do you do with a creation? You experiment, you see what works and what doesn't. Perhaps having a world that was all-good did not survive, perhaps it was boring. We don't really know but I don't think the reason evil exists is because he's "just a narcissistic dick".

What are his rules to be allowed into heaven?

That's the tricky part, nobody knows for sure

This question's answer varies from person to person. I think a belief in God will grant someone permission to enter heaven.

But what guidelines does the bible say?

So "believing" or "being aware" of him is good enough? No church? No praising his name? No baptism? Damn that's simple.

Years ago, I took an interest in exorcisms. And this is one of the things that struck me as odd.
Demons seem to be taking orders to possess people - who to possess, how long, what they can and cannot do, and when to depart.
Demonic possession is tightly controlled.
But when they are asked, "who gave these orders", they always answer, "you know who".
Which could be interpreted to mean either Lucifer OR God.
They're being deliberately ambiguous - like there's something they don't want us to know.

Same goes for when, and how they are exorcised. If they are rebels, then why are they cast out by the mere mention of God? Seems to me, they should kill the host every time, as soon as an exorcist begins.
But they don't. Because it's all a playlet - a kabuki dance, and they're playing a role given to them, with a script they have to play. And if that's the case, then there really is no conflict at all. It's just God moving forward with whatever His plan is.

Again, evidence that the rebellious angels (demons) are all just playing the role they were given.

this is especially highlighted by the exorcism of Emily Rose. (which the movies is only loosely based on reported events). Even if you don't believe in demons and exorcism, the logic remains. If you take what was reported at face value, then we know God had a hand in her possession. The girl flat out told us He did.

>Man or woman
I think the impression I've been given is that a deity like the God would "take on any form", specifically, the "best" form for anyone who perceived God. Glowing ball? Glowing ball. Giant spaghetti monster? Giant spaghetti monster? Your mom? Your mom. Nothing? Nothing.

>Why doesn't
I was under the impression, from the now varying sects of Christian texts, that Mr. Satan was cast into hell to punish souls/be punished/be banished with souls instead of party with them. Then again, look at all these various Christians. Some say you can pay the gay away, some say you can't, some say you just have to accept Cheesus Christ.
>choose to suffer
Lucifer was the light-bringer, the bearer of light and what I would guess meant knowledge. As in, knowledge that God probably had, sin and all that. Be free and junk, no strings on me, etc.
>Why did God give the Devil powers
Plot device? I've been told/read that Beelzebub was once a good boy who dindu nuffin, then he flew too close to the sun, the spirit, and the holy ghost.
>if he knew he's rebel
Why put apples in the garden, man. He's omniscient or evil or has a plan or some shit.

The basic 10 commandments seem to be a good guideline

No standby stealy rapey shenanigans

Yes. It sounds simple and it sounds like it negates the purpose of going to church but that isn't the case.
People go to church to live a righteous life in the eyes of God.
I, for one, think that's horseshit. God gave us free will and I think he would appreciate gratitude but despise worship.
If God exists, he forgives people for the most disgusting acts. The Bible says redemption can be achieved in the afterlife, so I'm pretty sure not going to church can be too.

That's open to some interpretation. For instance, there are parts of the Bible that says you must do good works. But not just any good works. You can't do good works with the intention of getting Heavenly brownie points.
You have to do right because it's the right thing to do. No expectation of a reward, not even a thanks.
It's actually tougher than it sounds

>Why doesn't the devil just make his/it's own heaven, down in hell?
They did, actually. Pandemonium ("all demons") is a mock heaven created by the fallen angels. Actually if you read the book it's not even a suffering pit *yet*. The whole lake of fire thing and the righteous ascending to heaven happen after the Second Coming. Your grandmother is not looking down on you from heaven, she's still sleeping in the dirt. Hitler's not in Hell, he's still sleeping in the dirt.
Most of that "winged people playing harps" stuff comes from Zoroastrianism. Descriptions of angels in the actual bible are either abstract shapes, multitudes of spinning wheels, or amalgamations of animal heads. Most of modern "Christian" folklore has nothing to do with the bible at all.

I don't know about karma. I tend to abstract most morals often. But I get away with things I shouldn't get away with. If karma is real, I win.

But doesn't that intertwine with free will, as well as God already knowing our choices? Is that to say that "Yeah, one time I selflessly held a door open for some elderly people because it was it felt right." "Now I'm going to go home and masturbate to degenerate shit on Sup Forums and hope this doesn't scratch out my good deed."

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it just seems too slave-like to be allowed into paradise, as opposed to how easy it seems to get sent to hell.

Speaking of which, what's up with all this "deal with the devil" stuff?
If Hell is supposed to be chaos and Heaven is supposed to be order, how come you have to have a contract with Hell but anyone can get into heaven by asking Jesus?

If I'm right, free will is just an illusion.
How can it be otherwise in the presence of an all knowing God?
A God who knows every decision you will ever make.
A God who knew every decision you would ever make before he even made you.....
How does free will happen under those circumstances?
The alternative is to say God is ignorant of something. But saying God is ignorant of anything would be blasphemy. Wouldn't it?

So it seems that free will does not really exist.
So what would all this be about? Why play this all through if everything is already predetermined?

The only answer I can think of is - for the experience. Knowing something and experiencing it are very different things. Maybe we need the experience - which cannot be had simply by sharing the knowledge of it.
You can't just know fire burns, you have be burned. You can't just know how your actions affect others, you have to experience it.

Maybe the whole universe is just God imparting His memory upon us. We're experiencing His memories.

Which would explain some of the fuzziness at the edges of perception modern science keeps finding.

This is because your soul by "default" is bonded to heaven. Thus, when you sign a contract you are signing your soul away to the opposite side.

You just restated the givens.
Why is the side of order the catch-all and the side of chaos has binding rules?
That's ass-backwards.

It's because selling your soul is a drastic decision. If God created each and every one of us, we are part of heaven, why sign twice? We haven't got anything to do with hell before we're born so it makes sense to have some sort of contract to enter.

How does a chaos contract make sense?

You are assuming it's chaos. It is actually much more likely that it's insanely organised just as heaven is.

Aren't we born into sin?

i was born into a hospital

God is an alien.

But how?

I'm not ready for this.

how?

what are you chinese?

My father inserted his penis in my mom's vagina.
Biology happened.
Nine months later she squeezed me out into a hospital.

I think God is us in a time loop.
Not you and I, but God is human.
Probably a human scientist in the far flung future.
This human scientist, let's call him Bob.
Bob has thousands and thousands of years of research to draw upon.
Bobs colleagues have figured out the nature of the Universe.
They figured out how to create universes. How to muck about within them.
How to change the laws temporarily, how to cause events within those universes they create.

So Bob gets a great idea. He creates a Universe that is exactly like this one.
Bob is the creator, he created the universe.
He set the firmament and the heavens as He saw fit.
He created the Earth, and the oceans and all the life.
He set evolution evolving.
And through all the whole history of His universe, he watches as His humans build and learn.
And breed.
And eventually, he watches as his mother is born, as his mother conceives a child. This is about the time Bob decides to enter His Universe.
Bob is born.
Bob knows everything about His universe.
Bob can do anything with His universe.
Bob has done this a lot of times. Bob has been to every corner of his universe.

God is testing his creations skills. Humans have pretty impressive AI and the whole evolution thing is pretty neat way to create content. Devil is there to make things more interesting.