Damascus steel is better then Japanese steel

Damascus steel is better then Japanese steel
prove me wrong you weaboo cucks

Yes?
The iron found in Japan is of a much lower quality.
If you mean the tempering and folding processes, they are almost identical.

European steel is better than Japanese steel

Most Japanese steel is Damascus, just not always etched with ferric-chloride. Usually folded repeatedly to form over 1024 layers which at that point an etch wouldn't bring out much of a pattern anyway.

True Damascus steel would be but that doesn't exist anymore. All you get is shit from Pakistan which is questionable. I like Damascus but In a real quality comparison, Japanese would probably win. Sorry brah

Where can I get that sword op?

I'd like to know how much a real Damascus steel sword goes for, or how to find one

Just say that it's better don't be a weaboo

All it is, is a process of tempering and folding the iron repeatedly. This combined with the higher quality iron in the region, makes "Damascus steel"
Many expensive chef's knives use this same process, though not likely from iron from that region.
In many cases even higher quality iron is used, leading to much modern steel being even stronger.

I said yes
But I was wondering if you meant the process or the finished product.
Process is basically the same, and wit the same iron would have the same result.
But period Damascus would cut period Japanese steel, for sure

Modern or ancient?
And which form of Damascus? Wootz or pattern welded?

he said its better you mong
even normal common european iron is better than japanese "steel" then there is no way it could beat damascus

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Ancient and wootz, i know that modern steel is better but i am talking about the options people had back then

>folding the iron repeatedly

or cutting in half and stacking.

checked

Damascus steel was folded a shit ton to make it awesome
Japanese steel was folded a shit ton to make it viable as a weapon

Japanese shit-steel BTFO`ed

zero mechanical difference.

W/e
Literally the same principal
But yes, that.

You don't understand what iron and steel really is if you honestly think that. Steel IS iron but with the addition of carbon which is what gives the ability to be quenched and tempered.
Iron cannot cut steel by virtue of the fact it can't be tempered to any extent. Steel (depending on the carbon content) can be tempered and used to cut iron and even other forms of annealed steels, it's why tools used to cut metals (saw blades, chisels, drill bits) are high carbon and high tempered.
There's no functional difference between European and Asian irons, they're both iron sans any impurities.

...

I know. It's just that I knew about the folding and had only seen the cut-and-stack method recently.

This doesn't even make sense. Makine Damascus Steel is a process, they use it in Japan.

Japanese iron is VASTLY inferior
Even when tempered into "steel" it weaker than European iron.
This is exactly why it had to be folded so many times.
This is a very specific and well documented historical example.

Saying iron cannot be tempered shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Steel IS tempered iron.

Taking about historically.

I don't get Damascus steel, we can build hydrogen bombs but can't replicate Damascus

Tempering is the process of adding carbon. Wtf are you on about

Yes we can
We have even made it better since it can be folded by machines that can press even harder than the strongest person with the biggest hammer.
Go buy a $1,000 chef knife

well then go check tamahagane that piece of shit
constantly chips and shatters like dry stick

No you fucking moron.
You cannot temper iron.
Steel is iron with a carbon content above .5% The carbon is what gives it the ability to be tempered.

No. Tempering is the process of softening steel after it's been quenched to a desired working hardness.

The problem was the capacity to remove impurity.
Iron as found in Japan is much less pure and would have required a greater knowledge of metallurgy than was present at the time.
This is all historical fact user.

yea that's not Damascus son

It literally is though

Because it's damn near cast iron in carbon content. It's made that way on purpose.
During the forging process carbon is lost so the metal is smelted at a much higher carbon content then what is needed in the final product.
Wootz is even higher in carbon but it's carbides are precipitated out of the lattice via a long process of forging and quenching at a lower temperature, the addition of copper assists the process.

Ancient japanses smiths were doing their best with what shit quality ore they had to work with. Middle-eastern smiths (where wootz was sourced) had the benefit of vastly superior ores and the introduction of crucible casting.

>ncient japanses smiths were doing their best with what shit quality ore they had to work with. Middle-eastern smiths (where wootz was sourced) had the benefit of vastly superior ores and the introduction of crucible casting
Here you go that wasnt so hard

pattern welding) is a folded steel, with two initial layers of high and low carbon steel. This is not actually remarkable other than its appearance compared to other steels of the time.

The Japanese only had iron sands to work with, no surprise they had to improvise. Given the shit quality of the ore what they ended up with was impressive. That said European crucible steel was the best of what was available at those times. They took the best of everyone elses ideas and combined them into a process that allowed them to specifically control the carbon content while excluding sulfurs, and they damn near perfected spring tempering.

Chinese gunpowder.
>older and still ends up being better

Absolutely.
Glad to see at least one other person here has a basic grasp of how this works

>shit from Pakistan
Tell more. I live here and I've never heard of this

Japanese pig iron

There is pos "Damascus" swords shipped out from Pakistan constantly
They show up in curiosity shops and those shops for "mall ninjas"

I imagine it's easier to fool a foreigner then a local so they sell their knifes in the west

The fuck is a mall ninja

They are absolute garbage teer
Cut out from a single sheet of steel and polished then buffed to make it have those wavy lines everyone wants
Then given a poorly painted handle, always half tang or less, and sold for $100-200 to kids with their parents money and neets

Those people in the black trench coats and fedoras and naruto headbands that go but Pakistani swords and $60 katanas from the mall

You are pretty lucky you don't have them around user

I'm and wtf. I've bought shit like this for $20-50 approx. It is framed and used as decoration on walls. Why would anyone buy this cheap ass shit for $100

Someone with no weapon experience larping as a seasoned professional.

Cause "swords are cool"

honestly Damascus was for royalty at one point, who the fuck would believe its 100-200$

I wouldn't even call what they're made out of steel. They're made from sheets of the same low alloy metal used to make silverware.

Just high enough to convince the idiots they bought something special, not so high they can't afford it

Yeah this is probably true

Kek you are lucky to have them, i would go to the mall just to cringe

it isn't. damascus steel had at most 1200 layers or so, while high quality folded japanese steel can have upwards of one million layers.

This

Though now I'm thinking of making this a business. The number of weebs is only going to increase why not join in on the money milking
How many layers you on?

It's pretty funny the first few times
But it gets kinda draining seeing the numbers rise over the years

Did you? Did you really?

Was just thinking that, figured i will go back to school and learn how to be a smith or something

Fucking finally found this damn picture

Neither have shit on Sheffield Steel.

>japanese steel can have upwards of one million layers.

No it didn't. They folded their billets a maximum of 14 times. Steel decarbonizes at a set rate when heated to the critical temperature needed to forge weld it. Given the average time needed to forge weld a billet if they folded and welded it any more then that then all of the carbon would be gone and you'd have nothing more then a pretty looking iron billet.
That gives a maximum of 32,000 layers and more like 128 given that billets were more often then not only folded 6-7 times.

But you don't need skill
You need need a plasma cutter and an auto-cad to run it for you.
But some sheets of cheek as metal and cut out some dumb as fuck fantasy swords, polish them up, then sell each one for 6times you paid for the sheet metal.
Just BS some middle eastern master you apprenticed under for 10years and you just got back to the states to start your own smithy

>Duster jacket
check
>fedora
check
>sword
check
i wonder if his ancestors are smiling upon him

Also have you even ever counted to a million?
It takes a loooooooong fucking time.
I can't even imagine physically doing one thing a million times.

For those wondering, this is a Mall Ninja

It's because it's been folded a million times that it can cut through a horse with one fell swoop

i would look at it as a hobby wanted to go learn how to forge things as well

The millionth fold unlocks the metal's true nature, awaking the potential locked within the base material.

Oh, that's cool
It's super awesome to do
Dabbled in college but never made anything very neat

>pic related

Depends on what type of Smithing really.
Ornamental iron forging is profitable and the easiest to learn, no need to learn tempering.
Things like knife and general cutlery forging is a little bit more difficult since you have to treat the metal a bit more carefully avoiding ruining the metal.
I'd recommend wrought iron forging to start with. People pay out the ass for a fancy front gate, a spice rack, basically anything can be made from wrought iron. It's cheap and easy to work as well.

The market is saturated with knife makers. Unless you're trying some crazy shit nobody else is doing you're not going to stand out enough to make it profitable.

There's a lot of talk about European sttel in here. Damascus was originally from India.

No i was thinking wrought iron forging i know people pay a lot of gates my neighbor recently did

the ore was from India

Or, maybe, Damascus was from Damascus?
In the Middle East

Good clarification

Damascus = pattern welded steel of the same name

India = Wootz cast steel.

> Damascus was originally from India.
> Good clarification
the fuck do you want

The market is pretty fucking saturated with people making decorative hearts out of horseshoes too dude.

Smithing is actually pretty easy and doesn't even cost much to break in to. I started forging using my propane barbecue and a hair dryer, results are indistinguishable from a professional tier setup.
Any fucker can flatten a railroad spike in to a herb chopper or twist a horseshoe in to a boot jack. You're right about the step-up tiers in complexity too. Getting a tool steel edge on a softer steel spine and etching a hamon on to it takes legit skill which comes only from practise. Expensive, time consuming practise.

I've used it as a beer money generator for a few years but making a career out of it? I'll stick to my day job, which is software engineering incidentally.

Nothing?
I was pointing out you were wrong, then it was corrected.
So I said good job on correcting it.

I'm only saying if you actually wanted to do forging for a living to pick wrought iron forging since it's far easier to learn and the profit margins are much higher.
I wouldn't do it for a living if i had a choice. I'll stick to machining and welding, they pay a hell of a lot more.
Forging is a fun hobby though, like to make knives out of tool steels like O-1 and W-2 to pass the time but i wouldn't want to do it for a living.

And Toledo Steel is better than Damascus

You can weld fancy legs to just about anything, paint it nice, then put glass of the top and sell it as a coffee or end table.
People eat that shit up

...

To be fair, metallurgy had a few hundred years to develop

my katana is made from diamonds...the hardest mettle in the world.

>the hardest mettle in the world.

>Not using aluminum folded 1 billion times

It's lighter and can cut through anything.