Had a debate with my friend. It started out about the importance of pitcher in baseball vs. quarterback in football...

Had a debate with my friend. It started out about the importance of pitcher in baseball vs. quarterback in football. He stated that quarterback is so important that if you put Aaron Rodgers on a team like Cleveland, Jacksonville or Tennessee they would immediately become a playoff team. Is this true Sup Forums?

No a QB can play a perfect game and still lose.

If a Pitcher plays a perfect game then they'll win 100 % of the time, hell that's why they have a stat in pitching called "perfect game"

I don't need convincing that a pitcher is way more important in a one game situation. My question is whether QB is as important enough of a position that upgrading a poor one to a great one would turn a team from last place into a playoff team?

no it wouldn't no matter how good a QB is they also need a Oline to give them time to make throws. Then they need a decent recievers to make catches and a decent RBs to take pressure away from the pass game. a NFL offense is like a complicated machine that needs all the parts working correctly to function.

Pitcher is more important than QB desu. QBs still have to rely on receivers and blocking. A pitcher is simply facing the person at bat.

I know that man . Do you think if you put the best quarterback in the NFL on a last place team that they automatically become a playoff team?

okay but if we're talking about the NFL, the O line/receiver talent is much more equally distributed than QB talent. in other words, the gap between the worst QB in the league and the best QB in the league is vastly greater than the worst RB and the best RB (or any other position for that matter)

Nope, not at all. Depends on who's around him, the scheme they're running, etc. Football is a unique sport because individual talent is less important than game planning and preparation. I'd say at best you'd give them 4 or 5 more wins.

That's a good point. They are all big and strong and fast. I know Rodgers would improve the team, I'm just not convinced that it would make them playoff caliber. Football is a team game in every sense of the word. Also if you look at the reverse effect (Trent Dilfer) where a quarterback is average at best but the team is a champion I believe it shows how much the other 21 starting players have to do with a teams success.

No but a QB alone can get you close. Brees gets shit for help on the other side of the ball and still manages to go near .500 most of the time.

If you add an elite QB to an otherwise shitty team it will improve greatly but not automatically in the playoffs or a winning record.

However that is only true for the complete shit bags of the league. If you put an elite QB on a team with something just decent you are in the playoffs for sure nearly automatically. I would say an elite QB is worth 5-6 extra wins a year give or take.

Add one to shit Cleveland they still go 6-10 or 7-9 and miss. Add one to bad but not a completely dumpster fire like the Rams and you probably go 9-7 or 10-6.

O-line is really really important, can only do so well without a good one.
Receivers can be improved by a good QB, but still be meh.

See: Seahawks.

Only in a bad division
Luck turned hot garbage into a playoff team while the AFC South reigned supreme in shittiness, but now that the Texans, maybe Titans, and hell maybe even Jags now that Bradley is gone are looking competent, just a QB can't do shit anymore

How many top notch QBs drafted high in the draft totally crumble and yet QBs drafted in later rounds excell? Because those QBs drafted 1 or 2 go to the shit teams, the worst teams in the league. teams that have nothing, no o-line, no receivers no anything and they have very short careers. While a BB team can draft or trade for a #1 starter, he'll get about 32 starts over a season and win 15-20 games on their own.

Aaron Rodgers on Cleveland would probably not be a playoff team, but Jacksonville has a pretty good defense so I could see him turning them into a contender. Tennessee almost made the playoffs last year, so with Rodgers they could be very good.

If that was true the Colts would have made the playoffs last year with Luck.

the Broncos as well.

everything about that team was geared for playoffs EXCEPT offensive line. Did they make the playoffs? nope.

Says a lot when two teams with great defenses, and good roleplayers can't even make the playoffs because of one major weakness; The Offensive line.

Gotta be the most underrated positions in NFL. They never get credit but goddamn are they important.

On the positive side example: Dallas went 14-2 with a mediocre defense and great o-line.

Packers are basically a Cleveland team without Rodgwrs; no talent at all

I think Vegas considers an elite QB to be worth about 7 points per game. The difference between the worst team and the worst playoff team is about 8 points per game.

Well you have to have a number of pitchers, no matter what, so the one REALLY GOOD pitcher isn't as valuable because he can only be a certain fraction of a units pitching, in a season...and Yes, Aaronn rodgers could make a lot of teams, a lot better, immediately

o line > qb

Teams like the Colts would absolutely be Cleveland tier if they didn't bumblefuck their way into Peyton and Luck. Irsay is the most stupid owner in the NFL.

I honestly believe that PRIME Peyton Manning could take all three of those, (well maybe not the Browns straight away) teams to the playoffs next season. While people make a fair point about a lot of offense's being capable of making their QB look better than what they are, Manning was able to make the entire offense look better, and more often than not, put enough points on the board that the Colt's usually subpar defense only had to prevent less than 21 points a game to guarantee a win.

Brady has the post-season success to make it pretty clear he is the best overall QB of all time, but in terms of regular season play and OP's criteria of doing well enough to drag a bottom feeder into the playoffs, I'll go #18 all the time

Peyton had great recievers. He was never the only quality like Brady or Brees has been

>treating O-line like it's one position

Yes Runningbacks-Receivers-Tight Ends is an important position as well.

Marvin Harrison would have been a great reciever without Peyton. With him he became a HOF Contender.

Reggie Wayne would have been a good receiver without Peyton. With him he became a great one.

Same with Dallas Clark at tight end etc...

His airing it out and playcalling even helped Edgerrin James become one of the leading running backs in the NFL for a period

Well you really have no evidence to back up those claims seeing as they did play with Peyton and so we can't see them in his prime without them. All I know is that Peyton fell apart of the postseason and once Brady takes his regular season win record Peyton won't have anything

Browns weren't a bad team during Payton's prime, went 10-6 once with Derek Anderson as the QB

Brees is one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever live and the Saints are a perpetual 7-9 team.

That's cause his arm is becoming a noodle. Hasn't aged nearly as well as Brady; threw like 15 interceptions last season

From a team-building perspective any one pitcher is only ~15% of your season's innings at most. Whereas a football team's quarterback is intimately involved in every offensive play.

I don't think either is as important as All-Star Basketball Player though

Tennessee isn't even that bad anymore. They'd go to the playoffs for sure if they had Rodgers

Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the history of the league, he makes any team a playoff team

15 picks is just about average for him, if you're looking for a stat to point at to show he's aging then that's not it. Using interceptions to try and claim a QB has a weak arm is retarded anyway, Favre as a pick machine but noone doubts his incredibly arm strength.

Brees actually had one of his better seasons last year statistically.

That defense has sucked massive nigger cock forever and Loomis is the dumbest GM in football. Complete waste of talent just like they did to Archie Manning, well at least Brees managed to squeeze one ring out of that shit team. Have him play for a competent organization with a defense and he'd probably be the 2nd best ever after Brady.

Fraudgers is nothing but a fraud.

Atrocious comeback record when down 8+ points.

Constantly chokes in the playoffs.

I'm convinced the guy pay the media to lather his balls and constantly make excuses for him.

Wayne played with Luck and was still productive

You can throw a no hitter and lose. You can throw 9 perfect innings and lose