Sup Sup Forums

Sup Sup Forums,

Currently freshman in college, really feeling like this whole college thing isn't for me (prolly cause I'm lazy and dont care about anything that isn't itself math or comp sci).
So instead of waiting to see what happens at the end of 4 years, do you guys know of any ways i could get started learning actual shit that people need app-wise. Does Sup Forums believe JavaScript or Python is the future? Been really looking it to the whole web app thing and think I could really get something going. Also, any other tips(tips more helpful than just do better in class because clearly my aim is to get money here).

Other urls found in this thread:

shakelaw.com/blog/lying-on-your-resume/
study.com/academy/goal/transferable-credit/credit-by-exam/clep-exams-college-level-examination-program.html?src=ppc_adwords_nonbrand&rcntxt=aws&crt=212121012885&kwd=clep exam&kwid=kwd-379800750&agid=26183709788&mt=e&device=c&network=g
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

JavaScript

>any other tips
Don't be this guy.

webdev - js for sure. Find a good framework that you like.
apps (like phones) - try Java for android and Swift for iOS.

Personally, I hate webdev. Right now at work I'm working with AngularJS + bootstrap on the front end and Java Spring MVC for the back end.

I like python a lot. If I could, I would write nothing else. Haven't had a chance to check out django though.

I'll tell you one thing they won't tell you in college though. Learn a full stack, cuz unless you land a software company like google or facebook, you won't be writing apps; you'll be writing web services to keep the business productive. It's all about what the company does. make and sell shoes? you're working on new frontend stuff or enhancing backend stuff to process more shoe data (shipments, materials, etc). make and sell wine? you're working on similar things. It's all about where you wanna work (the type of work, not location specific like "I wanna work at google") that will determine what you need to learn.

Or get really REEEALLY good at what you enjoy and you can freelance or start your own company or whatever.

forgot to say this: If I were your age, I would go straight for a LAMP stack. since it's so popular, there will be a lot of help. Otherwise, pick a language with the flexibility to write apps AND webpages/webservices. Then you will have the fundamentals of programming along with tools that allow you to build what you need. Still though, you're gonna need JavaScript at some point if you're working with websites. And SQL... I thought I'd never need it so I put databases off for a long time. Well guess what? I got an internship and I had to use Spring + Hibernate to query the company's database. Not a fun situation to learn the shit. And I don't mean know how to do a select statement; I mean build the actual DB

>took two hours to figure out he was lying
they deserved a lot of wasted time.

Can they actually sue you if they can somehow 'prove' that you were lying on your resume?

>2 hours

Nigger do you know how to count?

can you?

Javascript sucks. Python is where it's at

No this shit is most certainly fake.

There was no agreement of services to be provided. You can't just go in for an interview, spend 6 HOURS with them and then realize "wow this guy really doesn't know anything."

There's not a court in the world that would reasonably say "you know what, this company has a point."

Anyone trying to claim any sort of programming language is "the future" doesn't know what they're talking about.

Each programming language has something it's better for than others. For example, most embedded applications are written in C, Obj C, or C++. You wouldn't write software for an embedded system in JavaScript, and while you can do it in Python you wouldn't really do it for production except in specific situations.

And just the same, you wouldn't write any major piece of desktop software in C unless you hated yourself

I'm not saying that particular letter is real, but I'm talking about the principle.
Let's say you just obviously lie about something in your resume, like having worked for 10 years in some position. But then they find out you flat out lied.
Isn't that some sort of crime?

With that being said, it really depends where your heart is at. Everything has potential to make good money.

It's obviously grounds for firing, but it being a crime depends on what you lied about, according to some dude on the internet we should all totally believe without looking into this ourselves:
shakelaw.com/blog/lying-on-your-resume/

Apparently it's illegal to lie about having a post-secondary degree in parts of the United states.

I actually looked this one up before.

It only becomes fraud if there's a party affected financially or if you lie about having specific degrees/certifications.

For instance, if a company is hiring a hair stylist and they don't check for certifications and she cuts off someones ear, that's on the company.

BUT if a company asks for specific documents and you lie about said documents, that's clear fraud.

There's also things called "frolics" as well when referring to work. So if you don't know what the fuck you're doing and you do shit that's not your job, fuck things up on purpose, etc. that's gross negligence, i.e. you're getting sued.

So something to speed you along to the classes that matter to you, find ways to get your English / Science / Humanities knocked out that your college will accept such as CLEP ( study.com/academy/goal/transferable-credit/credit-by-exam/clep-exams-college-level-examination-program.html?src=ppc_adwords_nonbrand&rcntxt=aws&crt=212121012885&kwd=clep exam&kwid=kwd-379800750&agid=26183709788&mt=e&device=c&network=g )

You can go grab a study book (or free online) and learn the 'lesson' in an evening of reading ~70 pages, then take the practice exams before going the next day to take the actual CLEP. Bam, no english/sociology etc...

Won't help you figure out a language to focus on, but it will get you out the gate with a piece of paper saying you're a graduate quicker.

Thanks.

>there's a party affected financially
Wouldn't that already be the case if you got hired instead of someone else?
The person who wasn't hired could claim to have been affected financially.
Also, after firing you, the company could claim that the time in which they had to look for new applicants affected them financially.

Join the marines and stop being a whiney bitch

I don't trust this kinda thing

PHP in Browsers 2020 :D

I've been taking CS160 in college for a few weeks now. Gotta say I think that Java simply because of how widespread and recent it is compared to Python. Also, unlike Python, Java is Object-oriented, while Python is "Imperative" ie. literally base coding.

imma give you a real answer here. not going to do a paragraph explaining myself, because its Sup Forums and everyone here is a liar.

you ask if JavaScript and Python is the future. who the fuck knows? I still speak DOS and that helps from time to time. language doesn't change that much, just adopts new words. Python is glorified notepad for people who don't know how to use notepad, let alone cmp prompts. I have never written anything in python, I write it in notepad, sometimes batch that shit and port it to python and people think I'm a god damn wizard with python.

your aim is to get money, then do the app thing. its trivial garbage that doesn't contribute to the GDP in a meaningful way but hey, you could make money. angry birds has its own fucking movie now. if you can afford to do 4 years of college, do 4 years. why? at the very least spending 4 years around some people that managed to pass high school might make you less of an autist. if you want to bail and just go straight for the throat of life then all by all means just do it. even if you fail, you will have a more interesting story to tell than this shit you fucked up my f5 for.

underrated post. you are doing gods work user.

Software engineer here, I would recommend JavaScript if you want to do web development or Swift if you want to do mobile development.

C# and Java are popular and good languages but they're mostly used by big enterprisey companies doing boring things. Think banks, utility companies, etc. If you want a good job you should know a trendy language like JS, Swift, or Python.

JavaScrit is the language that runs on web browsers. And computers and Internet nowadays are mostly about the web.
I see Python as a personal programing language. It is what basic used to be in the 80s. It is very good to do some coding to automate some tasks, but you don't code serious software with it.

College is free time with classes in between, you should take advantage of learning languages and frameworks with your time. As classes, you probably do not see even 20% of practical work, and that goes only for 1 language.

Javascript
Recruiters literally fight over decent js devs where I live

* IT consultant
* Have CS degree
* Work on Web Apps every day
* Have made web apps with PHP(shitty), Spring MVC(Java), EJB(J2EE), ASP.Net MVC(C#), and node(Javascript).

Like any answer you see here, this is going to be 90% opinion. As I saw another wise user post earlier "anyone who claims that X language will be the future doesn't know shit", it's best to not get wrapped up in the language wars you can find on any forum. It's a useless argument and doesn't mean anything for the most part because 99% of it is Apples vs Oranges.

Focus on learning software development, not a specific language. Most colleges don't even teach how to make web apps (not a fucking blog ... like a real enterprise app with a bunch of nasty business logic and dependencies). what you should learn and be able to discuss (know a web stack like LAMP will help you illustrate your understanding of these concepts and give you talking points for the interviews):
- How does the client/server architecture work
- What is an ORM and why do we use them (object relational mapper)
- How to write a good professional fucking email. So important folks.
- What coding practices lead to common vulnerabilities in web apps: SQL injection, XSS ... (and how to protect against them)
- what is an n-tier application and why do we make them?
- Learn MVC architecture (not the C# web framework, unless you want to)
- be able to give the classic example of the Object-oriented programming paradigm animal < cat/dog (Inheritance/polymorphism/encapsulation/abstraction)
- LEARN JQUERY/ vanilla javascript - everyone hates it, but everyone uses it. If you are a software engineer, you will run across Jquery at some point.
- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn how to work with a database and how to normalize tables. Be able to draw an ERD and perform basic CRUD operations. Learn what a inner/outer join is. Learn about PK/FK relationships.
I have a lot of other shit to post, but comment to long. who fucking cares anyway?

a lot of javascript with very little python can do a whole lot more than a lot of python and only a little js

I do, list em all friend

where do you live?

tl;dr

but defiantly agree about database. I'm a god among men apparently because of database. why is it so hard for everyone?

there really is no "language of the future" as they all serve a different purpose. try learning java first then python because from what I know their syntaxes are similar then try js

I'm back mother fuckers> LIST-SAMA is here.
I saw that point about people recruiting JS devs and couldn't pass it up. I will say that u haven't been involved directly in a company that uses JS as their primary language and business generator. In most software companies that cater to industry/ uncle sam (like the consulting firm i work for) JS is just something you're expected to know and be able to use when needed. That being said, a lot of the "JS DEVELOPER NEEDED" places will be wanting you to use React Native/ Angular/ Vue. I don't really like any of them TBH. I feel like a lot of the things they do can be accomplished easily via a templating engine and some asynchronous JS calls. If forgot to add Templating engine to the above list. Things like Thyemleaf/Razor for Java/C#. If you've used php you'll understand JSP.

Back to JS, though. It's hot right now, but that's a fairly recent phenomenon TBH. There is an absolute metric fuckton of code that will require maintenance for years to follow using most other languages. My office has one dude that just does Perl for one of our clients because they basically can't find anyone to hire that can do it.(it's a custom perl framework written by one of the clients ex-employees. no documentation what-so-ever). Holy fuck i am rambling tonight. You can make a fuck ton of money doing any type of programming at this point. Don't worry too much about what language to learn based on some internet graphs. Pick one. Get good. Get paid

Look up dev jobs on indeed or something in an area where you want to live/work. See what technologies are in demand and go learn those. You can learn all the shit you need to be successful online for free.

I'm a self taught Ruby on Rails dev making low six figures. I don't have a degree.

>Python is glorified notepad for people who don't know how to use notepad
wtf are you even talking about

Senior in a CS program - here's your future if you teach yourself web languages and go straight into industry:

You get familiar with web dev (whether it's Javascript or a compiled language like asp.net through C#).

In a few years, people move on to the next big thing (Javascript is shit and is bandaided by tons of frameworks and transpiled or interpreted languages, eventually some research group or big company will put out a web dev environment that is less of a shithole. Microsoft is already trying.)

You're completely unemployable because you only have experience with a language that noone uses anymore.

You go back to school.

No. Absolutely ridiculous. Learn real languages.

Haskell, bro.

Don't listen to this guy. I'm self taught and am currently the web/server lead for a dev shop. I've hired CS students and the only ones who weren't totally incompetent on the job were the ones who taught themselves web tech on the side. Built their own projects and shit outside of school.

List-sama strikes again --
never underestimate the amount of code that has to be written to support systems already in production. I've been involved in some rewrites of systems from an old language (maybe an old native Desktop app for Windows XP) to modern Web apps (usually C#/Java based stacks), but there is actually WAY more work out there to fix bugs and add new functionality to existing systems (hiring a company to rewrite your 20-year-old system for 20 million dollars can just be too expensive for most companies). Java/PHP will be her and need maintenance for many years. You can't go wrong there. Having gotten to work with a lot of different technologies, I am a bit biased towards C# as i find the development experience and tools available are very much better than you'll find with most other platforms.

Yeah, i kinda cringe at the idea that college senior is predicting someone's career in IT like that. Most people in the firm i work for do have CS degrees, but there are also some good developers there with math, buisness, finance degrees.

I have a 4-year CS degree. I learned a lot. I can tell you a lot of low level shit about how the compilers work and all that, but honestly, very little of that do i use on a day to day basis as a consultant. Interpersonal Skills are VERY underatted in school to what you need in the industry. Most colleges don't teach very much practical knowledge TBH. The things that helped me get a job out of college was not my coursework (and the employers honestly didn't give a fuck about it either). What they were interested in was the fact that I was an undergraduate research assistant. Had presented at local conferences. Participated and placed in programming competitions( the team ones. I'm not autistic enough to win the solo compositions). Participated in hack-a-thons / startup-weekends. Found myself a part-time developer job with some local startup product company (i'm not from a tech hub by any means, either) and all the extra shit i did. Honestly, the biggest things i got from college was networking, as in the people i met. I actually got told about the firm i work with now by a dude i was in calculus with right now and some dudes i was in a pen-testing class with.
- list-saman

I re-read my post, and I'm pretty sure it was clear. but then again, if you are defending python, then it doesn't surprise me that you have issues with reading text.

>Python is glorified notepad for people who don't know how to use notepad, let alone cmp prompts.
>I have never written anything in python, I write it in notepad

what the fuck does notepad have to do with any of this
I don't think you know what python is

>Does Sup Forums believe JavaScript or Python is the future?
just learn both fag it isn't that hard

i have to agree. Acting like python is useless is either abd troll or you're an actual idiot. If you ever do any network sec/ penetration testing/ rapid prototyping of RESTful APIs ... you almost anything... python can be your friend. I wouldn't really use it in Production, but a lot of companies do. Like Netflix/Google? Can those engineers not read text? Also, for data science/ physics simulations / AI - machine learning/computer vision python has access to cutting-edge libraries and shit.
> list-sama

What do you guys think about R?

Data science is big money. If you want to go into that field, though. most companies will want to see an advanced mathematics degree. I haven't used R, but I think they worked out a deal with hadoop which will solidify there place in that sector for a while.
> list-sama

>advanced mathematics degree
How advanced? Im about to graduate with bachelor's degrees in biology and mathematics with a minor in statistics. I've been checking out Indeed and like 90% of what I see requests a master's and like 5 years experience. It's sort of disheartening. I was always under the impression if you got a bachelor's you were pretty certain to get a decent job.

so, just for my own personal satisfaction, you are both (assuming its not a classic samefag) are saying you cannot achieve with notepad what you claim to achieve with python? like for real, all I need to see is both of (You) that it is impossible in your mind to do what Python does, just using notepad.

Python is the future you'll want, but Javascript is the future you'll be getting

lol..... joke post

apply anyway.
they all want experienced people even for junior positions, but some place will have to end up being the first place you got experience at.

it's always easier if you know someone, even just online, who can get you in the door

>classic samefag

Javascript all the things.
Use React Native for mobile devices.

I'm probably not the best source for exactly what credentials you'll need to get a job in data science, but from what i have been able to gather .. there are not a lot of 'entry-level' data scientist positions. Most companies seem to want somebody with masters in some statistics based branch of math. I was approached by a rep from IBM during my college capstone presentation and the first thing he asked us (the other members of my capstone group) was about our background in math. If you have a math minor and can demonstrate some skills you might get in. Working on some online project would probably help a lot with getting people interested in your resume.

You could write a program to pull data from Twitter or something and perform a poor-man's sentiment analysis on it or something. look up some beginner data mining / big data projects and see what you can do. Data science really isn't my area of expertise unfortunately. wish i could help more
> list-sama

totally unrelated to OP, but i'm a college freshman in engineering and classes are fucking me up bad. is real life gonna be harder than college? i can do projects and deadlines, just not mundane ass studying. any help/advice is greatly appreciated

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but are you saying notepad when you mean batch scripts?
what text editor you use to write your shit is completely orthogonal to what language you write your shit in

I don't want anything where whitespace has meaning. Gives me flashbacks to the bad old days of Cobol.

good advice TBH. One of the things i've really learned going through the job market is that the credential the HR department asks for are fucking retarded. Unless it's like a senior/junior position i would urge most people to apply. even if they are kinda fresh.
> list-sama

its all I need, newfriend. I just want one of ((their)) responses to straight up say "notepad cannot do what python does." that's it. that's all I need to see. once I see that, I will for a moment feel like I am free from Sup Forums. I will feel like I can finally walk away from this curse that was laid on me back in 2003.

Thanks guys!

I don't think all the words you are using actually mean what you think they mean >not to be a dick.

see

You say that you don't like the studying part. Real life is much harder than college, but for different reasons. You actually have to manage expectations of your clients/managers/teammates. Very little of that goes on in college. And back to the studying, it's not uncommon in this industry to be handed a book or set of videos and have like 2 weeks to learn an entirely new language with a framework and business process included. It happens to me. And the client company might not have anyone to help you get up to speed on their systems. At that point, you just have to manage expectations

> list-sama

Is it possible keep this thread updated without it timing out while I sleep?

I feel that I can work with managing expectations, I've built projects for people before. I just have a lot of trouble working toward something without a clear goal in mind, or where I can't see the results of my work in real time like a project, as opposed to grades in school. I'm on the verge of failing calc 3 right now so I need to step it up but i'll probably just end up retaking it and trying to actually make a real academic change, its hard to do when I cant see the fruits of my labor in action other than just numbers in a gradebook

What in the fuck are you even trying to get at? You can write python in notepad.. you can write C in notepad... you can write LISP in notepad... Notepad is just a text editor. the only thing it does is let you write text and for that reason, "notepad cannot do what python does." You can write almost any functionality in any language. That is a fact. You can accomplish the same goals through 60 different languages (notepad is not a fucking language btw I still have no idea what you think you are trying to say). That raises the question, why write certain types of programs in some languages and not others? It's just more convenient, bro....

> list-sama

You can hit the auto-button and it will keep refreshing so that when you come back the thread in its entirety will remain, but if you mean keep it alive until you wake up the chances are pretty much nill, not on Sup Forums

Quick what's the anti derivative of (x^2)(e^2x)?

only a community college would be teaching those things. in real university a computer science degree is like this:

two semesters of java (or python, as it is now) that goes up to intermediate (but you better know everything about the structure and hierarchy of everything or you're dead later)

discrete math (it's a monster and few get a C and most need a B to get in to the major)

systems organization (binary, octal, hex operations; binary multiplication/division. assembly language using some emulator; we used MIPS 32 bit and an app call QTSPIM)

unix/posix and C up to intermediate level, bash scripting (this is the ultimate widowmaker and very few get a C. i finally got the C by after taking it twice and finishing with a 66%)

analysis of discrete structures (sorting, runtime, algorithms, data structures)

intermediate java (impossible unless you really mastered java well enough to teach in community college. people got A on all their first assignments and failed the first exam and fucking freaked out)

parallel and distributed programmed (threads, processes, barriers, semaphores, monitors in C and java)

comparative programming (haskell and others)

operating systems or compilers (both are hardcore and i plan to take both)

even then, you barely comprehend what you'd do if you went on to master's.

javascript is a jerk off. you master enough of it in a single elective course called "web programming". i think python is retarded.

Damn it. Why do all the best threads exist during the middle of the night

i had to retake calc 2, dude. No big deal. I actually met one of my fellow consultants in that class (half that class was retaking it). Just try to buckle down and make yourself do it and do it well. That's what you have to do in the real world :(

> list-sama

Kinda makes me happy that it’s possible to get far even if you fail a class. I might fail comp sci 2 this semester or scrape by with a C. I really slacked this semester

uhh that's something with integration by parts, which I cant remember rn, it was last semester anyways
I know, I have to get over this hurdle. I just can't stop it from feeling a bit like the end of the world rn. what resources and methods should I seek out and adopt in order to do better?

>spend 6 HOURS with them
They didn't, they just sat 2 hours together in a room.
>But then they find out you flat out lied.
>Isn't that some sort of crime?
No. Because that's what job interviews are for.
As user already said, if they took 2 hours to figure him out, they're not worth their salt.

calc 3 dude here, this is a pretty comforting thought tbh. I just don't wanna fall into old habits and make the same mistakes twice

yeah it sucks but there are other boards. it sounds to me like you would feel at home on Sup Forums or /sci/. plus the threads there are much slower

>more convenient

that right there, that single combination of two words, is why we are losing. I can think of five words that killed English. can you guess what they are? I bet you cant because your education was probably free. "Latin is a dead language."

sorry forgot to add my signature

>list-sama

As far as math goes check out patrickjmt and Paul's online math notes. I got pretty behind with the material in my calc 3 class and Paul helped get me caught up

>trendy language
> trendy

Fortune 500 doesn't operate on "trendy"

I should try those boards out. I mainly lurk around b and fit, but maybe it’s time to spread out a bit more

I feel you. Old habits are hard to kill

yeah, mine was like

> intro to programming (pick java or c++)
> some intor level class where we learned C
> some class where we learned boolean algebra, hex operations, MIPS. That class fucked normies hard
> Data structures 1. Everything is in C linked lists, vectors, searching algorithms... other stuff
>Systems and networking 1 (low level stuff like how memory allocation, scheduling, How the operating system handles a lot of stuff. threading...)
> data structures 2 : lots of tree/grid-based algorithms. bin packing... optimizations O(n) .. counting problems. lots of mathematical proofs and problems in this class
>systems and networking 2 : this class fucked everyone. Client/server tcp/udp .. all kinds of networking protocols and just all kinds of complicated math-heavy stuff with a lot of proofs
> programming languages (different programming paradigms and a language that showed them off) learned how to program a compiler and make our own simple language
> theory of computation : all about maths and turing machines. this class was honestly boring until the turning machine.
> im sure i missed some others, but those are the most memorable ones.
> i took a lot of cyber sec classes that were not for my major too
> list-sama

>maths
Out of curiosity What would you call pic related?

For...
full stack: JS
backend only: Python or Java or JS
mobile apps: Java (android) or Swift (apple)
finance (you will not land a job here): C++ or K
embedded: C OR C++
games: C++ or C# or rarely C/GLSLANG
machine learning/big data: Python or R or sometimes MATLAB

IMO JS is cancer. It has weak typing, weird OOP (prototype based), and bizarre variable scoping. For those reasons it's extremely error prone, but "easy to learn" (in reality these things make it harder to learn). Just learn a sane and consistent language like Java or Python

You can make fun of my signature if you want. It's just a joke anyways TBH. You obviously think you're much smarter than everyone else, so i'll stop responding to your nonsense.

You're obviously not a serious developer because if you were, you'd aim for the convenience of development and maintainability over making something harder than it has to be.

Clients don't pay me to make something as complicated or troublesome to work for as i can... that would make no sense. Any dev worth their salt knows that a simple solution is almost always better than some over-engineered monstrosity. That's the whole point behind high-level programming languages. I mean, why don't we just write everything in assembly? Idiot.

> and i would never forget to add the LIST-samaaaaaaaaaa

haha, i know what you're thinking. I'm from Florida and that's a cooler. I just spent a lot of my math education around foreigners who always said maths instead of math. haha
> list-sama

> Erlang

What a fucking joke

Heh, if you thought Systems and Networking 2 was hard for you, should see a network admin. We took 6 classes over that, and when you get to network security.... whooo boy, everyone got screwed on hashing and other security key generation methods.

Not op, but I call those "coolers."

Alright, homies. it's time for me to get some sleep. Those juicy morning meetings wait for nobody. If you want to be in development, you can do it. Impostor syndrome is very real in the industry and almost everyone thinks they are too stupid to do it. You'll be fine.

>list-sama .. PS fuck Notpad Normie

Yeah, but did you have to program and implement all those protocols yourself in C / java (alternating between which one was the client/server to prove that language doesn't matter). We had to implement several complicated protocols ourselves in code. The concepts were not too hard and I did quite well (that professor made me his research assistant for the summer :P)

> list-sama

Yeah I think we're one of the only countries that don't add the 's'
It's a chilly bin ;p

heat shield

What the fuck?

Silicon Valley Fag reporting in.

JS is for frontend presentation shit. For medium weight backend shit. Python is for backend shit, like stuff that needs heavy lifting of in memory shit.

If you are lazy don't be a programmer. It's hard to make things and if you Havnt programmed before you will learn that quickly. Whatever you do you must work hard lest you become a basic grunt worker

Learn any language friend, it takes a couple of days for you to master other languages once you learned one. Since you have a lot of free time right now, I would suggest learning Swift and building iOS apps. Maybe download unity and make a shitty game to learn what it feels like.