Would metal be more respectable if they weren't trying their hardest to scare outsiders by being edgy and 'hardcore'. There are professional music critics who refuse to take metal seriously because of their try-hard image. Metalheads always talk about how they don't want any outsiders in their circles but what they don't know is that people look at them as being a bunch of loser manchildren. They may scare soccer moms with their sacrilege album art but do they dare disrespect Islam? No, of course not because behind all the though guy macho facade all the people who are deep in the metal scene are just a bunch of posers. I can't think of a genre that I dislike more. There are maybe five albums or less that are of genuine quality but other than that it's just a self-masturbatory wankfest of who has the toughest image.
Would metal be more respectable if they weren't trying their hardest to scare outsiders by being edgy and 'hardcore'...
the fact that metal has remained relatively niche after all these years is one of my fav things about it.
Look at what happened to hip hop after it blew up in the mainstream. A bunch of norm teenagers flocked to it who know nothing about the history of the genre, the classics or anything of the like. I'd bet a large portion of high school kids who are "into" hip hop couldn't tell you a single thing about chopped and screwed, boom bap, g-funk, or anything of the like. Then you get guys like Lil Yachty shitting on hip hop icons like biggie. It's just a mess.
With metal, anyone who is into it is into it enough to know the difference between black metal and death metal, and where those genres originated. You can talk to any of those guys about mayhem or cryptopsy or morbid angel and they will know what the fuck they are talking about. Also, you'll never get a metal band showing anyhting but respect and reverence towards Sabbath, because they understand and respect their roots. It's extremely comfy desu.
Yes, it would be. I don't care about it though, if people can't listen to a genre because they don't like things like that, it's their problem, not mine.
This, as well.
Nah, because it's not the image associated with the music that scares people away, it's how much commitment the music can often require to get into that does that because the music is both abrasive/visceral yet also pretty complex for pop music structurally at the same time. Your last sentence makes this aspect of the music pretty apparent as well.
>Look at what happened to hip hop?
It got more creative and dropped the focus on afrocentric topics? Don't act like you know anything and I mean ANYTHING about hip-hop if you're implying that it somehow got worse over time. Starting with the Chronic it was just a tiring race of who could be hardest and most gangster. The early 2000s brought a much needed change to the mainstream sound and underground started to flourish with some really creative projects.
Metal, at least the scene, seems to be stuck in it's gangsta phase. No creativity, no experimentation, just the same hardass 'brutal' image. If any band tries to approach metal from a different angle, like Deafheaven, they'll get labeled as not metal. I remember the whole collective online metal scene having an aneurysm over the album art because it was in a bright color.
yea metal is pretty embarrassing today. not only because of how it evolved into this cringy teenage angst garbage screaming over how dad asked you to take out the trash, but also cause ive chosen the "respectable citizen" path in my later years and metal just doesnt settle well with that.
imo the only hope for metal is thrash
youtube.com
Metal doesnt care about being mainstream or respectable.
Thats the whole fucking point, that is the essence of metal.
Metal is supposed to be loud, abrasive, scare your grandma music.
Metal is supposed to be a 1 minuet song of distorted pig noises with an album cover of a zombie getting an abortion and like the album is called "legalize murder"
Metal is elitist, its a cult, it survives on the margins. Metal heads hate when metal is mainstream, you can find hair metal and nu metal buried out back under the portapotty.
The mainstream has never recognized metal or respected it. Niggers complain about them not respecting rap, when was the last metal album that won grammy of the year?
The true essence of metal is to be as non mainstream as possible and possibly a borderline sociopath
>brutal image
>implying every band is 90s death metal
>bright colors
>implying some of the most iconic shit in metal didn't have bright colors
Sounds like you got no clue what you're talking about. If you think the current group of guys in hip hop are doing anything different you're also retarded. Mumble trappers still talk about money n bitches n being hard. The conscious guys still talk about the same afrocentric topics (Kanye, Kendrick). The weirdo types still do sci fi themes or whacky characters (Shabazz, clipping). Hip hop has more potential as a genre of popular music than any other genre of popular music, yet it hasn't achieved shit because it doesn't innovate that much.
Like this, peste noire, a french nationalist right wing band that sounds like they summoned a demon to sing on their records. You are never going to hear it on the radio. Thats the point
>that is the essence of metal
no it's the essence of indie garbage
the essence of metal is being spectacular and badass and violent, like pro wrestling
why don't you go listen to cascadian black 'metal' instead? it's very socially respectable. you get to cut your hair, read books, post on instagram and wear flannel shirts, unlike with thrash where you gotta be a mean metal-thrashin mad headbanging maniax
>Would metal be more respectable if they weren't trying their hardest to scare outsiders by being edgy and 'hardcore'.
If they weren't, then it would just be hard rock.
the braggadocio of gangsters in hip hop has never gone away, only changed it's image slightly. 21 Savage, Vince Staples, Danny Brown, all these guys are or were gangsters and their lyrics tackle themes dealing with that. Anyway, that wasn't what I was talking about at all. i was just referring to how the current young hip hop fanbase has a culture of disrespecting and shitting on "old head" music. It's just a shit culture. THAT was my point. I was comparing it to the general metal fanbase who are usually pretty damn knowledgeable about metal.
If you think there is no creativity or experimentation in metal you are sorely mistaken. Deafheaven were only controversial because they were referred to as black metal when they really weren't a black metal band at all. And a bunch of people who were unknowledgeable about the history of the genre (like most current hip hop fans) came in and went "OMGGG I love black metal now!" PLENTY of bands have expanded and experimented within metal and been met with wide praise within the community such as Agalloch. Plenty of metal uses bright colours. Plenty of metal is experimenting and expanding. The niche nature of the genre means it has a small but always active consumer base, so it doesn't really stagnate like the rest of rock has.
>there are people on /metal/ who actually believe any of this bullshit
Get out of my general you poser bitch.
I bet you don't even have a spurdo folder or a jap glam playlist.
Paranoid comes to mind on the bright color thing, that stuff is bright as hell.
user
we know that we're perceived as loser manchildren
but it don't matter, cause we aren't quite as image-obsessed as rap kiddies and their "beef"
also there's some specifically anti-islamic metal out there.
metal is the only music that has not been swallowed by the majin buu called pop music (a few close calls in the 80's and 90's though). It still retains its original ethos of being fucking brutal.
Rap, punk, rock have all been destroyed and distorted but metal marches on
>Sodom
I can't believe I'm autistic enough to find that shit funny.
i agree, but theres got to be some kinda appeal and todays metal just isnt providing it. full boar maxed out screaming from the beginning to the end of an album is too much. egregiously vulgar and violent lyrics and themes achieves nothing. goofy tales about the dark satanic demons of ashteroth get old quick.
i mean i understand it has to be abrasive but its got to have some base appeal to have some kinda following.
it needs to get back to its roots which is basically thrash.
You shouldn't agree with him, though. He's taking the piss.
the appeal is riffs, riffs don't need to be thrashy to work
what about harsh noise
I disagree completely. Just because the genre's kinda got a built in inaccessibility to it doesn't mean it should water itself down. That's not metal's fault, but the fault of others' limited exposure to culture. Also, lyrics and their themes matter far less. I couldn't give a damn what they are talking about. But metal can certainly benefit from more creative approaches to songwriting, but really any genre can right now. At least metal has bands like Pyrrhon, who even if they make very inaccessible stuff, are at least bringing something fresh.
it's got no dynamics or rhythm
dynamics and rhythm are crucial to make something sound brutal
if it's just a continuous sound texture it can't have any percussive power
harsh noise is like rubbing your dick with sandpaper, it's painful but not brutal
>Metal doesnt care about being mainstream or respectable.
They play metal in fucking car commercials
>professional music critics
nice meme
that's fair I suppose
Its appeal is that normalfags like you dont like it.
The worst thing in the world for metal heads is if metal went mainstream again and normalfags started liking it and ruining it. Like they have to electronic and rap music
Like i bet if rap became unpopular rap faggots would kill themselves.
Metal heads are all like "lol who cares",
Its the complete oppiste, if varg had a number one hit on the charts meal heads would be fucking mad
Metal is the music equivalent of pro wrestling, horror flicks and action movies, some of it requires a degree of self-commitment and authenticity from the artist (hence the guys who brag about actually worshipping Satan IRL), but at the end of the day it's just spectacle. All of music is just that, but metal is a bit more self-aware of this than, say, punk rock or gangsta rap.
That's why metal allows itself to go way over-the-top in terms of abrasiveness, theatricality and tone. Cause it knows it doesn't have to sound "realistic". Realism is just a stylistic option among others.
>but do they dare disrespect Islam?
yes, it's called national socialist black metal
You don't seem to know much about metal
why speaking about a genre when you just have the stereotypes in head ?
pleb metalheads maybe
real metalheads know that Burzum is already pretty fucking mainstream and that it doesn't matter one bit.
>national socialist black metal
That's not the general metal scene at large. The general metal scene still has a predominately anti-christian sentiment and imagery and doesn't come close to anything that has to do with anti Islam because it's such a hot topic. Every genre in existence has a 'white nationalist' scene yet metal as whole prides itself for being anti-religious. It's just a bunch of posers who go for the easy target. Ask most big metal bands that are respected in the scene what they have to say about Islam. They won't talk about it because they're pussies.
or because they don't care due to never having had any problems with islam
let's face it, all islam does is kill a few schmucks every now and then.
If anything that's a reason to celebrate islam
christianity on the other hand has been nagging and bothering everyone in minute but close and personal ways for a very long time.
well the only reason metal ever caught on at all is because in its infancy it wasnt so over the top. it was actually a feasible anti-establishment lifestyle that had somewhat of a mass social reinforcement. then it started getting so dumb and obnoxious that it only appealed very few, and particularly the metal chicks flocked away to hip hop and pop making it even more embarrassing.
in my youth though i had this mentality, the harder the better and fuck everyone else, but now i see how its made the genre an incredibly small fringe group that is pretty much died out and has no relevance anymore
The philosophy of metal is extremism.
If you align with the right politically you heil hitler.
If you allgen with the left you say "maybe pol pot was right"
>muh popularity
>muh chicks
You are the one who sounds like a fucking faggot teenager my dude
Why should ALL metal do it? Like, why are you holding it to a standard no other genre of music even comes close to meeting compared to metal? It's not like you'll see various groups from national socialists to actual arabs to south asian guys make anti-Islam indie rock or anti Islam hip hop. But you'll see that in metal for sure. Not to mention the anti Islam is still a budding trend that'll definitely get bigger in coming years. As the genre spreads, there's also other anti-religious stuff coming up too in religions like Hinduism as well from Indian black metal bands.
and if you align with neither you just long for the nuclear apocalypse. Like most sensible metalheads.
...
Pretty much lel, ridiculous standard, what other genre ever criticizes Islam as a main target anyway? The closest I can think of is Siouxsie's Arabian Knights. And reminder that Melechesh had to move out of Israel for being too anti-religious.
>wanting to see the human race get exterminated is centrism
nice try, vermin
Sounds like you didn't really grow up at all if you let external non-music factors affect your own personal enjoyment of music. Holy shit, I bet you just turned 18 or 19, listened to some entry level shit in middle or high school, then decided that you "grew out of it" as many people like you claim. Shit reeks of immaturity and pretension. If you want more accessible stuff, listen to older metal or listen to the million revival bands or listen to something else. For what it's worth this isn't only the case with metal. Most classical post-WW2 outside of minimalism is like this as well as modern takes on avant garde jazz but these are even more extreme as they experiment with even more obtuse ideas. In all these genres, the only people who feel things should slow down are the non fans, and such non fans have nothing to worry about because they'll always have something like Djent in metal's case, Max Richter in classical' case, or Kamasi Washington in jazz' case where there's something mainstream that's easy to digest that'll help bring in new fans if they truly give a damn about the music.
>thread about MUSIC
>discussion is about POLITICS
I agree. What happened to the 80s when metal bands could actually write songs with hooks on them instead of atonal screaming about demons and gore over generic E minor riffs?
>being a slave to your ideology
>implying metal didn't escape generic e minor by becoming more extreme
Did the downtuned guitars or the atonality not make this obvious?
Glam happened
and it became worse as a result
say no to unriffs and dankspell memega
The riffs didn't disappear. They just got more creative with them. DsO has far more riff variety than older crap while also offering a far more abrasive, intense, and visceral experience than that stuff as well.
Metal still has room for growth. You could fuse many metal sub genres with shoegaze still, the most obvious one i have talked about here would be thrash. Thrashgaze.
And the idea of indie metal should be explored more, like the smiths meets burzum type of deal.
Then you could explore the idea of dance metal more. Create a sort of rave metal, fuse metal with the various electronic and dance genres, acid metal, house metal, disco metal.
Then of course there is the idea of jazz metal, i remember seeing a video a long time ago of a band that fused metal and jazz. personally i didnt like it, but i still think it could create new ideas.
There is still lots of ideas to be explored, although metal shitters seem content to just rehash shit instead of being progressive, i agree with that.
All that being said, op and all the shitter in here clearly only care more about muh popularity and muh getting laid more than the music. You shitters can fuck off to rap or EDM or some shit. Metal is fine with itself
Something like Temple of Baal---that's going a little too far for my taste. Is it that hard to write catchy singles like The Number of the Beast nowadays?
>Then you could explore the idea of dance metal more. Create a sort of rave metal, fuse metal with the various electronic and dance genres, acid metal, house metal, disco metal
Ever heard of trance metal? That sub-genre is actually pretty good and fun with minimal posturing.
Well, the ideas you're offering aren't real innovations and sound more like surface level gimmicks than actually fresh ideas. True innovation in metal can be achieved, but it requires creativity, not a blender for genres.
well was actually a huge pink floyd fan in middle school, then introduced to metallica in high school then into fear factory, sepultura, pantara, slayer and that hole 90's metal gaggle. then got into christian music after high school. then went to army and was introduced to drumnbass and got all into electronic, then came back and was introduced to jazz fusion which was awesome, then started playing civ4 alot and got brainwashed by its soundtrack and got big into classical then learned a bunch of classical/latin songs on guitar, now im kinda back on christian music again.
i dont know, it might just be a personal thing but i need a movement behind my music. this whole isolated musical enjoyment idea has left me quite cold
I feel that for a The Smiths-inspired metal to work, it has to be really, really syncopathed and be inspired by Johnny Marr's guitar work. You could go the Morrissey route, but that might not work, especially since I don't know anyone who could really incorporate Morrissey's style of Oscar Wilde-based satire. I definitely would love to check how it'd sound, though.
>no slamgaze yet
c'mon metal step it up
Lol, how do you think new shit is born, its just fusing genres and sounds together, stop moving the goal post, you are just mad because i dropped some fucking knowledge on you that metal is far from over and you are also mad because metal gives no fucks about being top 40 garbage
The only scene within metal that plays on the image and has fun with it is slam and to some degree porngrind, yet it gets ridiculed by the rest of the scene.
Oh yeah, if you wanted to bring punk back you would fuse it with shoegaze too.
gazecore, crustgaze, coming up
metal is a bunch of pre teens thinking they're breaking the rules for using black shirts with skulls which impress no one besides their religious mothers, also saying edgy shit while they've never been exposed to actual violence
honestly any metal head past 18 years is mentally ill but not in the "cool" way he thinks
That's definitely one way to go about things, though I feel it doesn't feel too much like a fusion between The Smiths and metal and more of a metal cover of a Smiths song.
variety
well it's musically pretty forgettable, and image-wise it's a joke
so of course we're gonna make fun of it, it's basically comedy music
Wtf are you on about? I didn't move any goalposts. All I said was that just doing it surface level like you said doesn't lead to actual innovation. Also not sure anywhere I said that the genre's over especially since I have been arguing the opposite itt. My aoty is Pyrrhon's new album, and that's definitely fresh for the genre, implementing actual jazz inspired improvisation really well (as opposed to having gimmicky jazz sections like you proposed and what bands like Sigh have already done.)
he said, whilst posting a wojak
Yeah, and DsO offers that madness on a far higher level than boring ass Venom. Stop being such a pussy.
Innovation is just a way to provide novelty value
If you aren't an ADHD kid you won't get tired of rehashes.
t.
>higher level
they just sound like they didn't tune their instruments.
You can't even headbang or mosh to their shit
it just sounds mildly uncomfortable.
basic thrash is exhilarating, it's fun to listen to
it's fresh but is it fun?
>hey just sound like they didn't tune their instruments
Yeah, if you're mentally retarded and have an ear based physical disability.
>You can't even headbang or mosh to their shit
One can technically headbang/mosh to anything. Including DsO.
>it just sounds mildly uncomfortable.
Can your ears not handle atonality at all? Fucking get off Sup Forums, kid, this is utterly retarded.
>basic thrash is exhilarating, it's fun to listen to
It's also extremely formulaic and weak sounding compared to what the genre offers today.
you're both wrong, if you say hip hop got like that way, metal was like this some decades ago. And metal got more criative over time as well, Deafheaven aproached from a different angle and that's cool, if someone says they didnt like it it's because they didn't like it and that's ok. It doesn't mean it's all bad.
"But do they dare disrespect Islam?"
I direct you to: youtu.be
Exodus, "Children of a Worthless God"
>technically
yeah fuck you my man
DsO has shit riffs because they only care about their jazzy atonal memery, they're like "oooh we're gonna make the EVILEST music ever. What does evil sound like? Shit, I guess? We're gonna make music that sounds like shit then."
Thrash is extremely formulaic because the thrash formula works extremely well
don't fix what ain't broke
otherwise you end up with ugly bullshit like DsO
>There are maybe five albums or less that are of genuine quality but other than that it's just a self-masturbatory wankfest of who has the toughest image.
wtf are you talking about? have you really listened to metal? name some albums you've listened to
Deafheaven tried something and it failed. That's not cool.
The posters arguing that metal has to be either pop-pandering pablum or inaccesible to all but the most degenerate of edgelords are a big reason why metal sucks right now. One good thing about having your genre atomized into a million subgenres is that artists can pursue any style and aesthetic they want and, if they succeed, contribute to the overall prestige of metal as a whole. I don't know what's more idiotic, people who think metal is only stupid atonal noise or people who only want metal to be stupid atonal noise.
Metal still has a long way to go before its dead.
Metal heads need to stop being broke brains elitists and embrace being progressive though.
Like we need to be thinking
what if the beegees.....but metal
what if new order......but metal
what if the smiths.....but metal
what if the stone roses.....but metal
What if miles davis....but metal
>what if dumb gimmicks
that doesn't make for good music
You're saying it as if metal musicians had a MORAL OBLIGATION towards metal to make it progress
Don't think the genre cares about being respected in that sense. To me, metal has always been about pushing boundaries and catharsis. There's a lot of metal out there today and much of it has become stagnant to a degree, especially depending on the genre. You can only put out a shitty production BM record with a forest on the cover so many times before it gets old. However, it does help innovative bands to stand out.
And that's the beauty of it. A metal band can come out of nowhere and make a sizable impact on the scene if it's innovative.
Nothing wrong with technicality provided the atmosphere and intensity is there to back it up.
There's nothing jazzy about DsO and if you think atonality means shit then as I said gtfo Sup Forums your ears aren't acclimated to that shit making you a very shitty music fan.
Nah, thrash is formulaic because none of those guys really wanted to get to the next level. Calling one thrash artist good when they more or less copy pasted another thrash artist is disingenuous. Youre just a weak ass grandpa that can't move on from his boring relatively watered down crap.
this is a genre were people run around worshiping satan and wearing corpse paint.
This is were metal is heading.
Art metal were people are head banging in museum and being pretentious twats
Dance metal, a guy in corpse paint wearing bell bottom genes or swinging glow sticks around
Introducing the sax, trumpents, and jazz metal
finally, bubblegum pop fused with various extreme metal genres. This will be the final stage of metal before it actually dies
All of these already exist in some form, and it's all treated a the joke gimmick shit.
so you think metal can't mix with others genres?
>Metal heads need to stop being broke brains elitists and embrace being progressive though.
ok i can agree
>Like we need to be thinking bla bla bla
wtf are you talking about? music it doesn't work that way.
Metal certainly can mix with other genres
just not shitgaze
all of that already exists you idiot
>art metal
THORNS got an exhibition
>dance metal
Turmion Katilot (since you're thinking of something more disco)
>jazz metal
Shining (norway)
It all exists and it doesn't catch on because there isn't much we can do with those concepts
>do they dare disrespect Islam?
Til Helvete med Muhammed og Muhammedanerne; utilgivelige skikker.
so you don't like shoegaze and think no one should be allowed to like it right? fuck off, what if someone likes metal and shoegaze?
Pretty much everything that can be done with Metal has already been done.
But whiny progressivists don't notice it because it's only done by one or two bands at a time, instead of spawning whole scenes like back in the 80s and 90s.
That's because weird, dumb hipster ideas are just that, and as such they can never gain enough traction to inspire many bands and become noticed by genre tourists.
As a result, genre tourists take a glance into metal and ask themselves "b-but why isn't there dance metal?"
There is, you just didn't bother looking into it.
Then that person should punish himself for having shit taste.
>implying metal's unaccessible aesthetics and concepts are only like that to scare outsiders
No. Metal being an extreme form of music, specifically death and black, I find it only logical that the concept, lyrics and aesthetic are extreme themselves. These so called "extreme" bands trying to disassociate themselves from this same concept are just bastardizations..
>professional music critics
Music, as all art, is entirely subjective. Needing approval from a music critic is beyond pathetic, and something I'd equate much more to a "loser manchildren" than linking certain genre.
>do they dare disrespect Islam?
Well, yes. The entire NSBM scene, a considerable percentage of the pagan scene, a considerable percentage of eastern European bands, Canada, the US, Thailand, Singapore - to name a few Svolder, GBK, Absurd, Intolitarian, Taake and Shining come to mind. Besides, the anti christian posture was only logical in the inception of the first black metal bands. Yes, "fighting Christianity" might be a ridiculous and unnecessary endeavor nowadays, but it's a traditionalism that couldn't fit the music better so it's irrelevant.
>there are maybe five albums or less that are of genuine quality
This proves that you don't know absolutely nothing about metal.
tl;dr fuck off and die.
Great post, never heard music talked about like that
> If any band tries to approach metal from a different angle, like Deafheaven
No. Bands like that get shit because they're absolutely perverting the true core of their genre and merely commercializing it in the most obvious pandering possible.
Plenty of innovative bands get respect. Stargazer, Sigh, Shining, Necros Christos, Deathspell Omega, etc.
What do they have in common?
They're not absolute shit like "cascadian black metal" and Deafheaven and similars.
>Anything Pete Helmkamp has been involved in
>Ares Kingdom
>Arghoslent
>Sigrblot
>Absurd
>Stargazer
>Sacriphyx
>Deströyer 666
>Teitanblood
Plenty of mature bands right now, and that's just scratching the tip of the iceberg. You clearly don't know much about metal.
>No women listen to metal anymore!
>My taste isn't validated by critics and the media so the genre sucks!
Fuck off.
>Vulture
>Enforcer
>In Solitude
>Portrait
LOTS of current great heavy metal bands.
>mentioning Maiden's most known and overrated sng
>implying death metal is the only prevalent genre nowadays
>implying only extreme genres are prevalent
>implying revival thrash, heavy and doom scenes aren't considerably big
You don't know what you're talking about.
>paranoid plays in a car commercial
>wtf metal is mainstream!?!?!