Basic Income

Hey Sup Forums, are you falling for the Communists subversive tactics?

Everyday:

>"hurr durr Basic Income is the future!"
>"hurr durr automation will eliminate all of our jobs! We need a Basic Income"
>"hurr durr have you seen the Humans Need Not Apply video?! Basic Income when?!"

Don't let them fool you and deceive you, Sup Forums. Now and then, they change the words but it's always the same thing. Communism in disguise.

You know who's behind this latest push. Communism is, was, and always will be the biggest threat to America.

Don't be fooled, Sup Forums. Please. I beg you. Think. Don't be fooled by their propaganda and lies.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=pwc7dJiXjlk
pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/Pcaab500.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

oh I'm way past that user

Way past

Now I create my own propaganda

watch out, zuckerberg

I know better because
>I'm in a labor union
>Our work will never be automated nor as affordable

I work hard for my shitty wages, but I'm glad to do it anyway and hate seeing people get free shit.

I hate the automation argument. It'll be decades if not centuries before robots replace all jobs.

I did notice the basic income thing seems to be mentioned a lot more recently.

Good, it makes sense and with how paranoid the US is about socialism we'll be protected from experimenting with it too early before anything is automated enough yet.

It's good that people are talking about it now, so that there's time for people to gradually get more used to the idea.

Capitalism: a system based around combining natural and human resources with capital to produce profits. Owners of the capital are naturally able to reap the most benefits; the human resources are in a very poor bargaining position from a game theory standpoint and thus unable to negotiate effectively.

Automation comes along, making capital many orders of magnitude more effective. Human resources now in an even shittier bargaining position when they're even needed at all.

>this is supposed to be a sustainable and acceptable endgame for those not in control of the capital.
It's not a commie plot. Basic income is a crutch to keep capitalists in the drivers seat.

I'll agree to MBI as long as they give up all other taxes in return.

A basic Income would be better than welfare though wouldn't it? It would better incentivize work and stop subsidizing minimum wage jobs?

We are also no where near the technology to drive unemployment sky high. The main problem is that technology is growing at a faster rate than the economy self corrects so people will be out of work while they look for jobs and the rich hire more maids and butlers. Needing a basic income would say that they is literally nothing that some humans can do to provide benefit to any other human with money.

Basic income will only work in 99% white small countries with small governments.

>It's good that people are talking about it now, so that there's time for people to gradually get more used to the idea.

Get out, Commie.

At least with welfare you have to show up and say, "help me"

Basic income is like getting an allowance as a child. I didn't even get an allowance if I didn't do chores.

>It's not a commie plot. Basic income is a crutch to keep capitalists in the drivers seat.

It is a Commie plot. You're being fooled.

>muh comoonism

Choke on a dick, faggot. It's better than seeing beggers and suffering everywhere

>all jobs.
I can't tell if this is b8 or if you're genuinely retarded.

Basic Income won't work because most poor people are stupid and wasteful. Expect that money to be wasted on crap like smartphones and shoes instead of being spent wisely.

Even commies were told you didn't get to eat if you didn't help work.

Basic income is more in line with the big banks who get free money from the Federal Reserve to pretend to be solvent.

He's an American he wouldn't understand.

This shit is all over the place. It's absurd. Every time somebody says the word "robot" there's someone right behind him to say that we need UBI.

It's liberal smugness to the max, because their position assumes that the only possible point of disagreement is that you are a fat-cat business owner that loves exploitation.

Communism creates beggars and suffering.

>Choke on a dick, faggot.

The only faggot in this exchange is you.

>It's better than seeing beggers and suffering everywhere

Right. "Hurr durr we can't have beggars and sufferers! It's unfair! Let's all beg and suffer!"

I don't think so. That argument makes sense for a large welfare state, where bigger and more fragmented countries put more strain on the system. But if we're talking about UBI where everyone is treated the same and gets the same amount, why would it make a difference if the country is big or small, or white or not?
What are you, some old geezer still spooked by the cold war? Communism is dead. Nobody gives a fuck about communism anymore. The fact that even Russia and China aren't communist anymore should be a clue. We'll have plenty of problems to deal with without resurrecting imaginary old ones.

Any professional beggar makes a pretty good living. Many people opt out of real life because it's easier.

The mental cases who can't even beg properly are the ones in need of a social safety net, and you generally have to go find their hangouts to see them.

youtube.com/watch?v=pwc7dJiXjlk

Reasons I like it

>we fire fucking 90% of the government employees pushing paper
>all "benefits" programs shut down
>americans benefit from america doing well, people will vote in favor of things that make america more money because they want money too.
>people who whine about "muh benefits" will need to learn to balance a fucking budget, eat cheaply, and live cheaply if they don't want to work
>artists are free to art, and can't whine about being a starving artist, and people will feel more free to take the risk to create art.

Reasons I hate it
>if people can vote how much they get, they are gonna inflate the fuck out of our dollar.

Lock it in at 50% of money taken in by taxes is evenly split amongst all citizens.

>What are you, some old geezer still spooked by the cold war? Communism is dead. Nobody gives a fuck about communism anymore. The fact that even Russia and China aren't communist anymore should be a clue. We'll have plenty of problems to deal with without resurrecting imaginary old ones.

Found the subversive Jew. Communism never died. It just went underground and changed tactics. The quicker you grow up and realize that, the better off we'll be.

>Lock it in at 50% of money taken in by taxes is evenly split amongst all citizens.
Lock it in at the interest on the national debt goes to fund government gibs instead of felating Rothschild dick.

And then set up state and local banks the same way as well to ensure competition.

lol. Well God damn, this no name faggot convinced me.

God damn, Britain is retarded.

A better option is negative income tax. That way, people who are working are getting more money back. People who refuse to work get nothing and die from hunger, exactly like they deserve.

It only gets worse as it goes on. Adidas has moved to full automation of their production of shoes. This puts thousands of workers out of jobs who only have skills to do jobs that are going to continue being replaced by robots. Then in 20 years you've got millions of angry starving poor people.

>Then in 20 years you've got millions of angry starving poor people.

Hopefully they succumb to the hunger. They won't be missed.

Will the black people revolt about racist lack of black employment like they did to Nike?

Marxist kike shill go back to r/fullcommunism

>Reasons I like it

>>we fire fucking 90% of the government employees pushing paper

Yes, we'll never need government employees ever again.

>>all "benefits" programs shut down

Silly, user.

>>americans benefit from america doing well, people will vote in favor of things that make america more money because they want money too.

I'll take "things that will never happen" for $1000, Alex.

>>people who whine about "muh benefits" will need to learn to balance a fucking budget, eat cheaply, and live cheaply if they don't want to work

I'll take "things that will never happen" for $1million, Alex.

>>artists are free to art, and can't whine about being a starving artist, and people will feel more free to take the risk to create art.

Great. More vagina paintings. Fucking awesome.

>Communism never died
It's still alive in Best Korea, but not really anywhere else

If you can't tell the difference between something like UBI and having the state (or the "people" or whatever) own all the capital and means of production, I don't know what to tell you.

Communism is shit because it requires a huge oppressive state to manage it. A UBI would actually allow a much smaller state than what we have now with complicated welfare schemes.

>tfw little kid
>mom takes you to the Gutenberg Museum
>yay fun field trip with mom
>this place is really neat
...
>actual huge vagina sculpture with extensive placard explaining that it's a huge vagina

Fucking Jews man.

>a non-argument
not an argument

Jesus, did poor people touch you when you were a child?

"Post scarcity" is a communist idea promoted by marxist kikes such as Ray Kurzweil and Jacque Fresco (Venus Project)

I'm not for basic income. I'm saying we've got to have a plan to handle millions of angry poor people before they revolt

>tfw fully grown adult
>mom comes to visit
>hey let me show you the local art museum
...
>huge painting of a gaping vagina in the modern art section

you just can't escape

If you can't tell that you're just being fooled and you're so short sighted that you can't see that a UBI will lead to the State owning all the capital and means of production, then I don't know what to tell you. You're lost, son.

I don't waste time arguing with imbeciles.

>plan to handle millions of angry poor people before they revolt

Automation doesn't cause unemployment it actually enhanced the economy and raises living standards

>muh poor people proletarian revolution!!!

Yeah whatever kill your self cringy marxist kike shill

No, but I'm tired of communism being pushed at their expense. The proletariat don't want communism. They want Trump. Only ivory tower faglords want communism.

>Rich people buying maids
Can we let this meme die because rich people are smart enough and work hard enough to do it themselves.

Obviously "post-scarcity" is retarded. If we ever lived in a post-scarcity society, I would personally take it upon myself to hoard so much stuff that other people would find it scarce again.

You don't need post-scarcity for a UBI, in fact the whole idea of a UBI is meant for a situation where things are scarce but there is enough automation that the natural rate of unemployment starts to grow out of control. That WILL happen, it's literally impossible for it not to, short of some global apocalypse

>tfw teacher
>taking class on field trip
>"Hey let's get these kids some real culture!"
>don't even get in the door and there's some dyke who hasn't shaved her body hair in 3 years squirting paint out of her vagina to a canvas on the ground

God damn it.

the quality of life for EVERYONE will go up when it happens

everyone except the apex economic parasites

>tfw it's just dad and me tonight
>let's eat tv dinners and watch funny SNL
>w00t
...
>Phil Hartman skit reciting Madonna's "My Vagina" book

Does everything have to be awkward?

>That WILL happen

Source? IRL all the automation that has taken place from the start of the industrial revolution until today hasn't caused a permanent secular increase in unemployment

>it's literally impossible for it not to

That sounds like marxist "the revolution is inevitable and historically unavoidable" crap to me

How the fuck would that happen? What would UBI cause that would make it possible for there to be a literal communist revolution in the US, when it's clearly impossible today?

We already have a huge welfare state today, yet somehow no communism, so don't tell me it's because it will make people "dependent on the state". People already are.

I never thought I'd say this but this Greek is BASED. Run for office in your country. Pay debts.

I'm thinking, it could potentially work. Get rid of welfare, but give people an allowance of sorts. If they decide to go out and buy all the latest iJew instead of food and starve to death, that's on them.

What is the idea behind this, that people will no longer have to work, thanks partially to automaton?

Well, I think this would end up just like the current push for a $15 minimum wage. The basic income would be to help you with costs to learn more skills to pick up a better job that pays more than the basic income.

But then you would have people complaining that the basic income needs to be increased when it should just be a stepping stone to help you rise out of your current situation and make something better out of it.

Bad idea, in the long run.

You're right, it's not really as obvious as I made it out to be. It's my biases as a computer science guy showing through. I'm a firm believer that AI will (eventually) get much better than it is today, and there is no way that being able to directly replace the labor inputs to your business with just more capital in the form of software can coexist with low rates of unemployment

You're wrong.

For the non-tax payer, it means not having to work as a wage slave, which means being free to make risky investments, financial or otherwise.

From the tax payer point of view, a guaranteed income reinvests taxes in individuals, rather than government bureaucracy.

it will be a combination of new technology with AI

for example, in Australia here they have GPS-driven farm equipment that can do a lot of the agricultural process....at the moment though it still needs petrol to power it

but there has been huge leaps with solar power (which is effectively unlimited on a human timescale) and batteries so its not too hard to image a near future where power generation and food production are significantly automated

in the short to medium-term that creates new industries and new jobs, but if you extrapolate the likely technical advances over the next decades its likely that we will reach a point where the amount of people needing to be employed to make all these things work will be significantly less than the general employable adult population

What the fuck are poor unskilled people going to do when robots take all the manufacturing jobs? There's not that many open positions at McDonald's

>money taken in by taxes is evenly split amongst all citizens.
Literally communism lite.

>artists are free to art, and can't whine about being a starving artist, and people will feel more free to take the risk to create art.
Society needs less "I always felt like I'm more of an artist kind of guy, working just isn't for me" """""artists""""". People dedicated to creating worthwhile art are going to do it regardless of basic income.
People are just going to use this as an excuse to not do shit.

ITT: People who don't know what communism are
My country is already rolling out automated self service machines. They're at half of the fast food chains/movie theatres/ supermarkets.

Self driving cars Google has already achieved. Self driving tractors are next.


This shit has been happening since the Industrial Revolution.

You are wrong because you have failed to undestand how improvements in Total Factor Productivity translate into higher real wages and allocation of the factors of production to other fields that emerge.

It's not your fault there is tonnes of marxist propaganda in the tech-futurism field.

it's not communism (utopic, abolishment of money and private property) but it's still shit

Based Germanbro

>For the non-tax payer, it means not having to work as a wage slave, which means being free to make risky investments, financial or otherwise.

Yes. The non-tax payer is already a shitty investment, financial and otherwise. They're a non-tax payer.

>From the tax payer point of view, a guaranteed income reinvests taxes in individuals, rather than government bureaucracy.

Again, why the fuck would I want to reinvest taxes into an individual who's a non-tax payer?

OP clearly favors basic income and is pretending not to to engage debate. He wouldn't have brought the topic up and then straw manned it as communism otherwise.

ελληνας ειναι αυτος? kεk

>This shit has been happening since the Industrial Revolution.

Yeah...and we've been doing just fine. No need for a UBI.

Sure, increasing productivity will put upward pressure on wages. But you're ignoring the much more direct effect of the relative price of capital and labor, just from plain old supply and demand.

Right now capital is cheap as hell, historically, and I'm pissed because it makes it harder to get any reliable returns on my investments. But what happens when it becomes common to substitute wage earners that cost you a salary, for a robot that you literally OWN like a slave? Suddenly the price of labor plummets to the cost of energy to run a computer and whatever intellectual property you have to license for the software.

No amount of productivity increase can compensate for the fact that work you used to do for $20/hour can now be done just as well for $0.02/hour. That's it, labor is done as a political and economic force at that point. So it's either something like UBI, a violent uprising that really DOES lead to some kind of communism, or just a massive welfare state with almost everyone on the dole, so like UBI only with more bureaucrats and pointless inefficiency.

You know, these people probably weren't doing much anyway. Probably working call centers, and shit.

I'm not talking a comfortable living basic income. I mean you have to work at it to cover basic needs, and limited diet. Any form of comfort comes from employment.

Don't even get me started... literally heard some liberal faggot on NPR recently talking about basic income like:

>"Yeah sure, maybe 90% of people will stay at home, smoke pot and play video games all day. But if 10% of the population still goes out and creates amazing things, that's still a significant number of people!"

Just... I don't even have words...

I'm not going to even dignify it by saying the phrase, but I can't say I'm surprised.

The only way basic income is going to work, or even have a possibility of being instituted is if automation covers enough of our infrastructure. When that happens, There would probably need to be certain societal checks. Checks such as, no breeding until you are verified as a wage earner or salary-man for two years.

If you ever become unemployed after this period, you must wait another 1 to two years in a paying job before getting licensed to procreate. The only other way is through serving as a member of the military. And maybe a police force.

We don't need people who are going to soak up that basic income and not work, even if jobs are impossible to find due to being taken by an automated robotic workforce. We will, however, always need a human face in our military and security forces.

Open breeding rights can probably be re-instituted when the pop falls below a certain level, or when we are able to handle a larger level of demand/consumption.

Basically, we might be cyberpunk dystopia before a basic income is viable.

I think you're missing an obvious alternative. How about we bring the world's population down to a "sustainable" level by just letting about 7 billion people die?

Even Henry Kissinger once made it a matter of National Security to limit population in order to avoid an uprising.
pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/Pcaab500.pdf

fuck they don't all have to be maids, they can be whores too

Oh, now you're talking like a crazy tin foil hat person, or maybe some of Obama's literally Jewish Communist "czars."

fuck your police and military fetish you gay assfag. Seriously kill yourself. treat them like anyone else

You a fan of Friedman too? My nigga...

youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

Even the skilled positions are being opened to automation. People are just not needed as much anymore due to technological progress. When it gets bad enough, there is either going to be basic income to keep people afloat, or there is going to be death in the streets, and progress toward a shining future will suffer.

If I can get machines to take over for people in my business, I will do so, where possible. Who is going to stop me? Really, who? Machines are much cheaper in the long runs, and they are being specialized to take over more than just pathetic unskilled areas.

Eventually I will be able to replace executive parasites. Even doctors are going to find it harder for their prospects. Any business owner who has the chance and the money to upgrade is going to do so. The only reason one wouldn't is if they could find immediate labor that we can underpay. Borderline slave-labor. Americans cost too much anyways.

>Yes. The non-tax payer is already a shitty investment, financial and otherwise. They're a non-tax payer.

Bus drivers are tax payers. Chronically depressed geniuses aren't. Which would you rather invest in?

>Again, why the fuck would I want to reinvest taxes into an individual who's a non-tax payer?
Because they'll be more likely to become a tax payer, and more likely to do so in a novel way.

That is the reality of the situation. Heck, even the military is receiving its fair-share of automation.

Still need boots on the ground to calm the angry jobless rioters (with gunfire). It won't matter what you say though. You will probably be jobless after whatever trade you were in was taken over by a robot who can do better than you, longer than you with fewer mistakes than you.

You are either going to be able to feed your family, or you will be trying to riot. Those that have money won't give a shit about you.

Businesses and government want to keep costs down. Flesh-bags cost more than machines. Especially in the long term. Clerks can be replaced with kiosks. Call centers can be automated, and are.

Your vacations, sick-days, your maternity vacations, they cost money and lower productivity.

>Bus drivers are tax payers. Chronically depressed geniuses aren't. Which would you rather invest in?

Oh yeah, you fucking neckbeard. Now I understand. Everyone in your utopian logic who doesn't pay taxes is a chronically depressed genius living in their mother's basement, just like you. They just need a chance. Someone to invest in them and their future and their genius ideas to make the world a better place.

Get the fuck outta here.

>Because they'll be more likely to become a tax payer, and more likely to do so in a novel way.

More likely...more likely...more likely...

Welp, I'm convinced.

yeee

chances are those poor people have low iqs.
meaning they are fundamentally useless.

>I didn't even get an allowance if I didn't do chores.
UBI: people wanting the benefits of civilization without contributing to it by using the power of the state to punish those who contribute to civilzation

Jacques is based as fuck, your argument is invalid

I start to pity bluepills really
While they re discussing their animal rights, safe spaces, acceptance and monies for everyone when white birthrate keeps dropping like a rock
Turd worlders are mass migrating and spreading like fire

Poor fucks dont even know whats coming to them

It's called a transistor
You pack a bunch of them together
Get some pajeets to do the programming for next to nothing
????
labor-free MUH MADE IN USA/EU

transistors
pajeets
?????
you lost your job

As always pol gets it in the wrong way.
Look at pic related, they are the ones that will suffer unemployment in the next decade not the citizens of the west or average citizen is more educated than the average citizen of an East Asia country (Japs and SK not included).

Do you remember when Trump says "we gonna bring back the jobs folks we gonna bring them back". He is just ahead of the curve that will happen in the next 2-3 decades this shift will take place and self correcting free market will make the west gread again.

The chinks will devastate their countries with pollution to compete with robots but they will fail and will end up swimming in a huge toxic lake.

On the other hand whites have Greenland Siberia and N Canada which with the global warming could became farmlands while the land in the equator will become a dessert

Whatever happens the West always wins, so pol stop being pessimistic

>The chinks will devastate their countries with pollution to compete with robots but they will fail and will end up swimming in a huge toxic lake.
>chinks die because their country is fucked up and they refuse to fix it

This is a problem because...?

So the self-correcting free market will make manufacturing businesses go back to paying 10x more so that westerners will have jobs again?

Ok

This exactly. Imagine what will happen in China. They have little to no labor laws so the moment machines become cheaper than human slave labor is the moment when millions will be out of work in their country alone.

Nothing wrong with Humans need not Apply. It's the truth.

However UBI/Communism is shit.

Chinks are already automating their shit. They are already building fully automated, human-free, factories. If you are a struggling Chink, I feel for you. China is not know for safety nets a lot of the time.

We really don't need that many people in logistics. We have machines that can precisely move product to staging, and machines that can load it for shipment. This means I spend less on the poor blue-collar imbecile that is going to have to go home and tell his kid that Santa is not coming.

Business remains smooth, and eventually only a skeleton crew will be needed. They are going to fight over shit jobs like it's some kind of upper-tier white collar position. Who is going to buy the product you ask? If no-one here can afford it, then I guess we look at the developing non-automated economies to export to.

Another partnership agreement should grease the wheels.

It would continue to subsidize minimum wage jobs since these people's minimal wage would still be enough to support themselves ( in theory ). Rather than the people moving away and driving up the price of labor in the area, they would stay so employers would only have to pay minimum ( below living ) wage.

Let's make a list of all the jobs that could be replaced in the next couple of decades to machines.
Any production/manufacturing job
Any driving job
Any surgery job
Many customer service jobs
Many paper pushing job

nothing, my point was that they are the ones that will be sunk by the automations, not us
machines will replace the manufacturing jobs that went to china like pic related, once machines have taken over this jobs the machines will just go to the west having closer high skilled tecnicians

And the shortfall between what is produced and what is needed will be made up by creating enemies of the state who don't get UBI.

> all benefits shut down

UBI is a benefit dumbass

> vote in favor of things that make 'america' money.

Like out of touch gibs parasites have any clue about making money

>Let's make a list of all the jobs that could be replaced in the next couple of decades to machines.
>Any production/manufacturing job
>Any driving job
>Any surgery job
>Many customer service jobs
>Many paper pushing job

"Damn...that's a helluvalotta machines."

"Yeah. Hey, who's gonna service and manage all those machines?"

"God damn, you're right. We should probably make robots to do the servicing and managing."

"Yeah. But, wait a minute. That's gonna require a lot of machines to service and manage all those machines that make the robots that do the servicing and managing of those machines, right?"

"Well...yeah...but..."

How do you suppose they address the problem then? No money means no commerce. Again, for "job creators" this can be remedied in an import market, but what are the jobless going to do?

UBI may be shit, but it will probably be necessary.

What minimum wage jobs? They are already beginning to automate most of them. There is a fully robotic McDonalds in the works. The robot does everything from making the burgers to taking the orders.

Your Amazon packages will be delivered by Drones, soon.

Don't forget creative jobs such as art and music composition. Even military jobs are looking to get more automated.