Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1856

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Read the guide before asking questions.
djtguide.neocities.org/

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discord.gg/neA547g
guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/honorific
my.mixtape.moe/ognetd.zip
pastebin.com/qdaYzitJ
geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Dice/7371/top.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Jerusalem shel zahav

The only thing you can do to fight laziness is form habits and just make the rational decision to do the goddamn work. Worst case scenario, you barely do any new anki cards and have to wait years before you're good. If you learn 5 kanji-vocabulary a day, you'll know 3,000 kanji in less than 2 years, and would have barely spent time studying. Obviously this is suboptimal but you can be a lazy shit and still do it.

Another thing would be to force yourself to read manga in Japanese. That's what I'm trying to do and it's ridiculously helpful. Reading practice is the most important thing to do while learning Japanese. If you do nothing but anki for 100 years you will never learn Japanese. Try reading a single chapter or something a day and build up as time goes on. Do *not* rely on motivation. Just make a schedule and stick with it. If you can't do that, sorry, but you really can't learn Japanese.

bump

Any good elementary school level manga? I'm talking grade 1-4 or so. Very basic.

>75057946
>Why do you call ぬ a verb when it appears to be a suffix?
Because I prefer to use Japanese grammatical terms for the sake of preciseness. Especially in classical Japanese I believe they are necessary for understanding the grammar properly.
"Auxiliary verb" is a direct translation of 助動詞, which is one of the four kinds of inflected words in Japanese alongside 動詞, true verbs, 形容詞, i-adjectives, and 形容動詞, na-adjectives.
In modern Japanese, things like past-tense ~た, negative ~ない (when attached to verbs), passive (ら)れる, causative (さ)せる are all auxiliary verbs.

>I thought 連用形 is supposed to go before the noun it refers to. Like 差し込んだ日差し、泣きじゃくった少女. Not after.
In your examples, 差し, 込ん, 泣き, (し)ゃくっ are 動詞 conjugated into the 連用形 (which you might call verb stem, masu-stem, root, continuative form, etc.). た/だ is a 助動詞 conjugated into the 連体形, which is the form that comes before the noun or nominal that it modifies. In 来ぬ, 来(き) is in the 連用形 and ぬ is in the 終止形. The general function of the 連用形 is to attach to certain auxiliary verbs (like ぬ or た), to other verbs as an adverb (like 差し and 泣き in your examples), or even to whole phrases (a process called 中止法).

Yotsuba

>After some googling, it looks like only Haruo Srirane uses this term. Why "bound"? [...] Is it [...] just another emphatic particle from the same group as wa, sa, yo?
Haruo Shirane's "Classical Japanese: A Grammar" is where my studies into 文語 began and I highly recommend it if you have the patience. The English terms he uses are all direct translations of Japanese grammatical terms, and learning them can improve your understanding of modern Japanese as well, in my opinion.
From his book:
>Bound particles (係助詞) add meaning primarily by emphasizing, interrogating, or posing a rhetorical question. A major characteristic of bound particles is that they modify the predicate and are "bound" at the end of the sentence.
In classical Japanese, except for the so-called "topic particle" は and the addition particle も, which are bound to the 終止形 and therefore do not change the ending of the sentence, 係助詞 are bound to a certain conjugation and change the form of the predicate (a process called 係り結び). The emphatic particles ぞ and なむ, as well as the doubting/rhetorical particles か and や, are bound at the end to the 連体形. The particle こそ, which is even more emphatic than ぞ or なむ, is bound to the 已然形.
In modern Japanese, the bound particles は, も, and こそ still exist, as well as others, but 係り結び has dropped out of the language and no longer occurs. The bound particle しか might be thought of as "bound" to the negative form at the end of the sentence, but this is not technically the same since ~ない is an auxiliary verb/adjective and not a form of conjugation like 連体形 or 已然形.
わ and よ are 終助詞, final or sentence-ending particles, and さ is a 終助詞 or 間投助詞 (interjectory particle) depending on how it is used. These are separate from 係助詞. ぞ has become a 終助詞 in modern Japanese, though.

Other categories of particle include:
格助詞 (case particles) like が, を, に, と
副助詞 (adverbial particles) like だけ, ほど, まで, さえ
接続助詞 (conjunctive particles) like から, けど, ば, て

how is Sup Forums DJT still going?
I thought you all would have migrated to /jp/ by now

Why are you people still using this old thread? The discord discord.gg/neA547g has completely replaced this thread, stop making them and go there instead.

Sup Forums DJT serves a different purpose. This is the Yotsuba questions thread while /jp/ DJT is the anki assistance thread.

fuck off pls

I prefer anonimity over a circle jerk

That excuse might pass on Sup Forums or /jp/ but with flags Sup Forums really isn't anonymous at all, if anything the discord where half the people are named "user" is more anonymous than it.

>/jp/
autistic screeching and hateful people

go away imabi

It wouldn't hurt to incorporate the discord link into the generic op text, would it?

Fuck off japshits

This might be a dumb question, but what's the function of the 「ご」in 「ご挨拶」?

guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/honorific

see Honorific and Humble Conjugations

What kind of responses do you usually get when you tell people you are learning Japanese?

>telling people you are learning Japanese

Only a coworker and some family members know (family think I'm learning Chinese). My coworker is going to Japan soon so he's pretty supportive. Everyone else doesn't care which is fine by me.

Oh you're learning Japanese! Sugoï!!!
konnichiwa!!

Learning japanese doesn't have a good rep for obvious reasons.

There are more weebs in France than people who dislike weebs.

Everyone else seem to envision Japan as a big collection of temples and 鹿威し.
That's my experience at least.
I used to think Japanese had a pretty bad rep too, but I've been told on several
occasions to write on my resume that I was learning it.
A math teacher also told me to talk about it during job interviews, though I couldn't bring myself to.

I'd assume it's got a pretty good rep actually.

がんばります!

Woah, really? You're crazy, man! Hahaha! Why Japanese, though?

Then:
Say something in Japanese!
or
How is THIS called in Japanese?
or
Oh yeah, what are some Japanese food?

I also have a friend who, whenever I say "yesterday I learned a word for X in Japanese", will ask me "what is it?" As if she knew any Japanese and that knowledge would be helpful. I just want to tell a story related to me learning that word, but I always get this question before I'm able to.

>I thought 連用形 is supposed to go before the noun it refers to. Like 差し込んだ日差し、泣きじゃくった少女. Not after.
Forget about it. It appears I wasn't quite awake at the moment and peceived 連用形 as 連体形. Hence this misguided question.
Apart from that, I'm not yet quite clear on how ぞ affects the predicate verb. Simply adds る? What does this whole structure add to the meaning of a sentence? What connotation would that sentence lose without it?
>秋来ぬと目にはさやかに見えねども風の音にぞおどかれぬる

That's still a pretty impressive feat especially if you have a decent level and a N1 or N2 to show up for it.

それを聞いた兵士達が笑い出そうとした時、轟音が響いた。

Minor question here, but still curious: would it be "before they burst into laughter, there was a roaring sound", as in, the burst into laughter hadn't happened yet? I'm pretty sure that is it, but I just want to make sure. The official translation messes with the original text, so it's no help.

>風の音に おどかれぬ
I am surprised at the sound of the wind.
>風の音にぞ おどかれぬる
It is the sound of the wind at which I am surprised!

ぞ marks the preceding word/phrase for emphasis (which I translate as an exclamation point), and "binds" it as a special condition that the predicate applies to.
This is similar to how は binds things to the predicate:
>お金がある
I have money.
>お金はある
As for money, I have it (but I might not have something else)
ぞ has an emphatic meaning instead of the comparative/contrastive meaning of は, but the process is similar:
>音が聞こゆ
A sound can be heard.
>音ぞ聞こゆる
A SOUND can definitely be heard!
It takes the focus away from the predicate and onto the word/phrase that it marks.

The sentence ending in the 連体形 gives it an explanatory/descriptive overtone, and when you use ぞ the sentence NEEDS to end in that form, similar to how the sentence NEEDS to end in a negative when you use しか, just because that's how the particle is used. I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

新言葉ゲット!
ところで、酔狂と粋狂の中、どっちがいいですか?

I would welcome the posters of this thread at personally. I think if we get a /djt/ going there that would improve the board quality a lot. And there is no spammer there. Beware the lack of moderation through.

Isn't that a metaboard that got turned into softcore Sup Forums because mods don't give a fuck?

It is basically /jp/'s spinoffs wandering back to the site.

There is an IRC post from the official Sup Forums public channel with some user asking the mods to moderate /qa/ and the mod telling the user to basically fuck off, that it isn't a board they care about.

なにかの面白い話→轟音→兵士の笑い声(not yet)

I don't tell people unless they explicitly ask me about hobbies and shit

either this this >Say something in Japanese!
or this

So why do people that speak a language so reliant on context need a particle to be able to realize something is an explanation?

It's not reliant on context.

Got it, thank you.

普通は"酔狂"
でも"粋狂"は結構粋だな。

>kimi ni wa
>no verb to work with the ni
Is something after the wa particle modifying the kimi ? What is the ni there for?

君に fits into the statement somewhere but nobody cares where and it might even be ungrammatical to do so with words

Started reading yotsuba, have to keep referencing grammar guides and looking up words I don't know/forgot (which is good I suppose since it reinforces stuff) but this bubble is extremely confusing for me:

>どこってそりゃおまえ

I've already googled it to see that it means something like "What do you mean 'where'?", I can't really figure it out for myself though. My translation is something like: "That is 'here', you" which makes no sense

According to TK the casual usage of って sometimes leaves out a bunch of particles. Is that the case here?

I think the って here is being used as a quote like What do you mean "where"

In this instance って is directly quoting どこ、as said by よつば. そりゃ is それは.
Have you seen the よつばと! Reading Pack? Try it out, you may find it useful:
my.mixtape.moe/ognetd.zip

So basically the sore refers to Yotsuba?
The sentence would be 「"Where?" That is you」That is you meaning she is the one who said that? It doesn't make a lot of since how the translation would be "What do you mean where", especially since there doesn't seem to be any indication he is questioning her, it just seems like he's making a statement.

Help

The それ is referring to the answer to Yotsuba's question. The おまえ literally means "you" and is an expression of exasperation, like, "You absolute twat."

Does anyone know if you can you use the Japanese to English dictionary for books converted from epub to mobi on a kindle?

They have to be sent to Amazon's cloud service to be processed into their DRM, don't they? If properly converted into a mobi, the resultant azw3 kindle file should have no problems with the J-E dictionary.
For reference, this is the paperwhite series on kindles we are talking about, right?

Yeah I'd be using a paperwhite. Does my kindle need to be connected to the internet to use the dictionary, or can I use it on the go?

I think of it like "'Where?' You mean you don't... [even realize that we're moving?]"
Like maybe 「どこ」って? それはお前・・・(気づいてないのか?)
Yotsuba& has lots of casual expressions like this and isn't as beginner-friendly as some people would have you believe, unless maybe you've watched a lot of anime and can kind of hear how they're intoning things as you read.

the kindle downloads the dictionary initially, should be able to use on the go

the hard part is getting the kindle books to actually recognize the words - unless it's a book directly from amazon it will often try to parse THE ENTIRE PARAGRAPH as one word.

Sorry about the late reply. No, the dictionary is downloaded and stored locally. You can look up words online using it, but that's only for wikipedia and goo/yahoo (from memory). The online aspect is only for the first time you open a book and the dictionary is prompted to download.

>unless it's a book directly from amazon it will often try to parse THE ENTIRE PARAGRAPH as one word.
This is incorrect. All of the azw3 files in the CoR should work properly, as they were processed by Amazon. You can use Amazon's desktop app to send .mobi files and it will encrypt the book in their DRM and send it to your Kindle. From there you can either keep it like that or copy/remove it from the Kindle and remove the DRM with Calibre. Either way, if done properly it should have no issues.
There are two guides covering this process:
Aozora Bunko to Mobi:
pastebin.com/8cRxRcQu
Mobi to AZW3:
pastebin.com/qdaYzitJ

What's the equivalent for "Wherein"

In an English sentence:
In case of a situation wherein I must leave, etc etc.

jisho.org gives me "その中" but the example sentences don't look right.

there isn't one

Thanks a ton!
I guess I'll have to buy Haruo Shirane's book after all. Since I couldn't find a downloadable scan anywhere.

I concur.
/jp/'s DJT is a veritable hotbed of douchebaggery.

I'm trying to write

"However, it is expected that not just that person moves so gently"

しかし、その人だけそれほどお手柔らかに動くはずだ。

I've been using google translate to check but it says that that would mean only that person should move gently.

Is my grammar wrong?

Where did you get the "not"? I see no negation there.

>音姫
>melody or flushing sound played by a Japanese toilet to mask excretion sounds

Is that a play on the "princesses don't poop"?

>princesses don't poop
They do, but farting music while they are at it.
Like Blue Danube.

When 中 gets appended to words to show that something is in progress, like saving game data, what reading does it take on?

WHAT?

This machine makes no sense. If you poop on your own, there is a 50% chance you will silently dump your flotsams.
By using this you will automatically warn everyone you are shitting, so regardless of hearing it or not they will imagine you doing it.

Chuu. I wish I knew the answer for some other frequent ones, like 後 and 前

Thanks

>they will imagine you doing it
What else can they possibly imagine of a person in a toilet?

"呼吸するように勝利です"

What does this even mean? Like, the sentence structure is simple and I know all the words and what "you ni" does but still.

If they can't hear you, they might not even know you're in the toilet.
But when you open Pandora's Boombox, even the postman will receive the poopsignal.

萌豚 - もえぶた
声豚 - せいとん

Correct?

It's saying that winning would be as easy as breathing.

Ah, thanks! Only had the "in order to" meaning stuck in my head for the "you ni" part. Now that makes way more sense.

>tfw it takes almost an hour to translate a page of yotsuba because of all the confusing slang and shortened casual versions of things i have to refresh my memory on
i won't give up

What are you guys reading right now?
Just finished Kakegurui, quite dissapointed MC didnt fight the President yet.

Re-reading through ゆるゆり.

>yotsuba
Bad choice.

>Bad choice.
What's a better choice? The only other one I hear recommended for beginners is Chi's Sweet Home but it sounds like it'd be annoying with the cat speak.

この素晴らしい世界に祝福を!
It's pretty easy going so far.

Also reminder that June tadoku is coming up very soon

Heard good things about the anime. Is the manga good?

Pretty sure people just think I'm a weeb, most can't relate to why I would and my Grandma is so disconnected from the east she thinks it's the same as Chinese and Korean.

If I do tell people I want to talk about though because I spend most of my free time practicing or just thinking about it so it's kind of frustrating. I'm inching towards just not telling people anymore.

Would Ace Attorney be good for a beginner? Looking for a game with a ton of text. Ideally for younger kids.

I mean, until you get fluent it's just a side hobby. You don't give a shit about what your friends and family do in their spare time do you?

Learn Japanese because you enjoy it, not to show off to other people.

It has lawyer vocab, so if that doesn't put you off sure. The names are all puns too.

Script of the first game so you can dip a toe in:
geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Dice/7371/top.html

>You don't give a shit about what your friends and family do in their spare time do you?
If it's important to them I do

I don't try to show off but I might come off that way

Well the hardest part of doing something out of the ordinary is not that friends and family won't care. It's that they're lack of understanding makes it hard for them to talk about the topic with you.

I graduate with a bachelor's in computer science next semester. I can't talk programming with my family. They're more concerned about who I work for and how much money I make. It sucks, but that's just how it is sometimes.

From experience manga is really bad to start out for the reason you mentioned earlier. You won't progress reading manga.
What I did was going through easy light novels with a dictionary.

I actually told people I read Japanese at a job interview and they liked it. Just don't act like a weirdo and the weeaboo shit won't even cross their minds.

I was under the impression that you would pick up conversational Japanese better from manga, maybe I'm wrong though, I haven't started reading yet.

>Just don't act like a weirdo
Hahaha

It has made me more conscious to listen to people when they want to talk about their hobbies.

Well, then don't talk programming.
Talk about interesting shit like how it has not been proven so far that humans are capable of performing tasks that computers are not able to perform.
If you have taken ANY lectures on computability, you can do that. Turing Machine etc.

It's trivial to say something interesting relating to CS, that everyone can try to understand.
Maybe attempt to get them thinking about P!=NP. The more people think about it, the better.

The Japanese found in manga is too quirky to be used in real life.
It will only slow your learning down.
The best is light novels. You have more dense text, a lot of furigana most of the time, and the sentences are simple and varied.

What books did you read? I'm looking to start reading and don't mind a challenge. I don't particularly care much for manga either.

To give you an idea I think the first one I read was 伝説の勇者の伝説. But the best is to pick one you like.
Should be challenging but not impossible.

Any suggestions on easy light novels?

Do you ever accidently speak in 日本語 instead of English?

nvm I didn't see this post