>B: I have nothing against Kanye West. Help me with this—I’m not dissing him—this is about how people talk about him. With the last album he did, he got all the best beatmakers on the planet at the time to make beats for him. A lot of the time, he wasn’t even there. Yet no one would question his authorship for a second. If whatever I’m saying to you now helps women, I’m up for saying it. For example, I did 80% of the beats on Vespertine and it took me three years to work on that album, because it was all microbeats—it was like doing a huge embroidery piece. Matmos came in the last two weeks and added percussion on top of the songs, but they didn’t do any of the main parts, and they are credited everywhere as having done the whole album. [Matmos’] Drew [Daniel] is a close friend of mine, and in every single interview he did, he corrected it. And they don’t even listen to him. It really is strange.
Sexism is still a problem in music industry
this is an 18+ website
Sup Forums is the last place to discuss sexism. A bunch of introverted, awkward teenagers have not experienced anything in the real world. Think their lonesome Xxxtortellini listening sessions prove they are true vessels of depression.
yeah but
kanye talks more and is always embarrassing himself.
bjork problem isn't sexism. its just that she is very passive aggressive on what she actually does and then gets mad when shitty journalists fills in the banks for her.
anyway sexism exists in everything in this world. its cruel but until women start outperforming men by majority it's going to keep happening
I thought she was exaggerating things but after seeing people in Björk general saying how Arca did most of Vulnicura while it was the same thing as Vespertine (Björk was mostly finished with it and Arca came at the end), I started believing what she's saying is true
I'm not a feminist or anything (im even a little right-wing) but she's not wrong.
again thats kinda her fault. you don't see majority of ppl mentioning max martin co-writing for taylor swift on her releases.
The funny thing is that Björk probably does more work in her albums than Taylor Swift or Beyonce,
hers the deference: while kanye west does all of the music alone björk doesnt she needs somebodey
I'm pretty sure everyone knows of and mentions Max Martin's role in today's mainstream pop music so I wouldn't agree with that
It does annoy me when people say Arca did most of the beats on Vulnicura when it was pretty much done by the time he came on board. Same for most of her albums tbqh. If you actually read interviews with her collaborators they all say she takes over and they don't really do much.
??? Have you seen how many writers and producers were on TLOP?
Absolutely, she writes all the music apart from the odd song where there's a co-write, and records most of it herself.
i rarely ever do see fans ever mention tswift getting helped by max on any of her songs. or even reviewers?
but maybe im wrong then. sorry
I think most people just assume she and other mainstream pop stars don't write or produce anything all by themselves.
mostly this, it goes without saying that people like taytay don't write things by themselves
on the other hand, people are used to Björk doing all by herself so when someone jumps in to help it's immediately "OMG HE DID EVERYTHING FOR HER"
Beyonce's Lemonade had over FIFTY writers, producers and collaborators.
How can something like that be deemed her solo work and not a collaborative effort of a big team of people is beyond me.
And Adele cried when that album didn't win a grammy instead
Adele aka muh white guilt
I think that's a big problem with all of modern pop music, hip hop included. There are artists in the mainstream that are doing their own work, but so much of it is manufactured stuff made purely for consumption by the masses. It's like we're back in the Tin Pan Alley era.
>I'm not dissing him
yeah right
all dg fans diss kanye
>until women start outperforming men by majority
so never
kek
im confident it'll happen very soon. would be interested in somebody like bjork or grimes writing and producing for male artists instead of vice versa.
she kinda tried it with dg
I really wanna fuck björk but I don't want to fuck any male artists. How's that for sexism
We will eventually end there. Don't know when, but eventually.
Give me a break. Beyonce doesnt write any of her shit and has the best beat makers from all around and people praise the shit out of her.
You are probably heterosexual or a lesbian. That's why.
It's not about praise, it's about getting credit for your work.
>Yet no one would question his authorship
Yes we would
i disagree. she still wants the praise. so her opinions on things can get considered.
if not she would have ended up like inga copeland or holly herndon being pretty much invisible to mainstream culture
I question his authorship.
are you fucking kidding me? no chance. unless you castrate all males at birth, it's not gonna happen.
i think it'll happen. too many males are either whining about rock music being dead and disliking rap/electronic music. so all of that talent is too busy trying to revive old rock genres.
females are mostly above that since they never really felt welcomed in rock music. whereas electronic music as being more "friendly"
...
it stops happening the moment you stop thinking like that brother.
Of course sexism is still a problem. Look at things like the "Women are wonderful" effect. Absolutely outrageous, men deserve equality.
one of the most retarded posts I've ever seen on Sup Forums
the only ye album that was a one man job was TCD, and even then he didn't write the raps
I fail to see how collaboration is inherently a negative. You'll never see people criticizing Kanye for MBDTF which had like 387 people working on it. I get criticism for not writing most of your own album though (ahem, Taylor Swift and Travis Scott)
My point is I don't see how more collaborators = manufactured bullshit
>My point is I don't see how more collaborators = manufactured bullshit
its not
anybody who makes art acknowledges the fact theirs certain limits you can't do unless you're a special kind of person. thats when you hire people to execute your dream
I've heard rumors of Ye slowing a beat down or just adding a hi-hat and taking main producer credit
also, every song post 808s is ghostwritten, save yeezus
who wrote
bleach on the asshole t-shirt?
what's this?
a smart man? in my 4chins?
CyHi the Prynce and everyone fucking knows it
damn
I take that back, Cyhi wrote Yeezus too
>My point is I don't see how more collaborators = manufactured bullshit
I'm not saying it is. Obviously you need people with certain expertise to help craft a proper record. But there's a clear difference between what Bjork did with bringing in people near the end of production and with Kanye who get's these large numbers of producers and songwriters.
yeah but kanye himself gives props to his homies
bjork doesn't
yeah, Kanye spreads my faith in him pretty thin, although I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully we'll see songwriters standing up for themselves similar to how producers have in the past two decades.
>I know nothing about any of Kanye West's albums
>seriously nothing, CD to TLOP
This is such bullshit.
She's seen here in the OP doing just that! She offers off her material to Death Grips, and involves literally all of her collaborators in multiple remix projects.
Showcases their works on her youtube and commends them in interviews and AMA's.
I'd like to see some interviews where he talks about the work Arca did on Yeezus please.
Even if Arca produced the whole thing on his own, it wouldn't matter, because the coolest thing about the album are the string arrangements anyway. Mouth Mantra's arrangements for example are insanely complex and beautiful and they were all done by her.
This. She never stops talking about how great Arca is recenty, and vice versa, they've become best friends.
>Xxxtortellini
yeah so where's the yusef and cyhi and mike dean and jon brion shout outs
She's right and it is an issue.
There's also the issue of female acts being seen as sex objects above musicians which is visible in the threads here - though a lot of them play up on it for sales (and often rely on it to hide their lack of talent - e.g. Grimes - with photoshoots and dressing overtly sexually). It's a commercial market and that's the real problem. The art world doesn't have these issues.
>There's also the issue of female acts being seen as sex objects above musicians
I'm glad you pointed out that the issue is sex being above the music, and not sexuality in and of itself.
Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
Nothing wrong with using sex as a concept, but sex thrown on top of something to increase sales is a different story.
Could do a whole thing about the market and how men are targeted harder to consume historically because they have typically been the breadwinners while women looked after the kids and whatever. There's an ingrained societal issue there that gives rise to an association of women in the media as desirable sexually. But the big outlets that could be talking about that are too busy forcing girl power narratives that don't look at the root of the issue.
Do it, I'd gladly read through it.
I'll consider it. If anyone needs a humanities thesis topic feel free to take it.
wrong
kanye made a whole track shouting out the silver surfer
where's bjorks shout out on the record
oh wait it doesn't exist
Get a job kanye
no you get a job
he made a 11min song shouting out everybody who took a chance on him getting a record deal
where's bjorks homage to the ppl who put her on the map??????
Well Arca didn't put her on the map, but there's going to be a song about their friendship on her new album. Bjork's been in the same small indie label since the 80s, owned by her manager, I don't think she really needs to do a shout out to him.
i think she does buddy.
kanye did it
would be more interesting than the same ol songs she sings about.
Explain how this track would go down. How would it be structured?
imagine leaving LA like father john misty
but instead of a boring piano ballad we get some god tier string arrangements ambiently
bjork sings for 12mins talking about how she got into the music industry and dealing with the sexism and the ppl who helped her on the way. she also discusses her sadness and insecurities
At that point you could just watch her fucking interviews and put on some classical music in the background.
oh no problem bitch, the same way i question your authorship i also do it with every hip hop 'artist'
thats one thing you and them will always have in common
nah
>everyone knows of and mentions Max Martin's role in today's mainstream pop music
dude i don't wanna sound ignorant, but i've never in my life heard of this dude. While, even not being a fan of hers, i still know for sure who taylor swift is.
>they never really felt welcomed in rock music
>mfw
>75103856
also most girls i know aren't that into electronic, i know way more guys interested in that kind of techno stuff, while the girls i know (who declare themselves to be into music) are way more into rock/indie/punk usually. But that might just be a trend in Europe.
im referring to upcoming artists user. not your normie friends brainwashed by society
Basically first problem non-issue that can only be solved by installing Communism because that's the only thing that will make art school nu-males and women happy. Artists are pretty much fucked in capitalism and we'll always have these complaints, unless you're a very popular pop artist. They still find ways to complain though.
*first world
we wont
women are stuck with an issue they cant solve their brains are 10% smaller than a mans
women on average however make more neuroconnections
but thats the things neuroconnections are made you arent born with them
women can never reach the upper bounds of men they will always be behind
women are stock in slightly better than mediocre no matter what
Look man, men are just better at everything.
Women just cant handle industries that are meritocracies because they find out the reality is they fucking suck so they have to start whining about how they need special treatment.
Comedy, music, sports.......politics.
Men are better
>Men are better
Then why are you on your own tonight?
Because tonight is just like every other night.
Men dont need contact with other human beings and thrive in both isolated and social environments.
Women should pretty much just commit Sudoku
>beats
>beatmakers
And these people claim to be musicians that make music.
i'm listening to music that women will NEVER be able to understand
She's got a point
her point is no one is allowed to criticize her
>and often rely on it to hide their lack of talent - e.g. Grimes
nice bait, fucker
Fair enough desu
>mentioning Björk and Grimes in the same sentence
Gee, its Blur and Oasis again, isn't it?
Fuck off dude, this kind of actual real talk is not allowed here.
i don't think she's wrong but er specific example isn't as simple as sexism. in hip hop, it's assumed that someone else is making the beats. for whatever reason, hip hop producers don't ever get much credit. if you were to look at, say, a niki minaj album, no one would be talking about her producers and who's making the beats, and i highly doubt it's her. it's still a "niki minaj song"
bjork even as a "pop artist" often errs into the experimental electronic bubble, which is obviously one where people are already paying a lot more attention to producers. especially when she's bringing in big names like matmos and arca.
that being said, i can understand how it'd be frustrating for her, and feeling as though people are much quicker to attach male names to her own damn album
i believe anything mommy bork says. i want her to pet me
This is actually the realest shit i've read on Sup Forums in fucking years.
That being said this thread wasn't that bad, Sup Forums is generally pretty good with these things compared to most other boards as long as the thread is actually about music and musicians.
How much of kanye's music is actually made ny him? This is kinda disheartening since I love all of his music. I just assumed he does most of the beats because he used to make beats for jay z.
...
MOOOOMMMMYYYYYYYY
women r dumb stupid vaginas lol
>he made every beat on TCD
>most of the beats on LR (with input from Jon Brion)
>most of the beats on Graduation (starting to get more help from other producers at this point)
>808s is kinda different because the instrumentals are different from his usual hip hop style of producing, but the still came up with most of the melodies then produced the instrumentals together with mike dean/mr hudson
>MBDTF was when he started to enlist a shitload of producers to send him beats that he would then perfect and work on (i.e. Power, Devil In a New Dress), pretty sure he made Runaway by himself
>Yeezus was done the same way, only I think he made Bound 2 himself. A lot of the beats were made by more electronic producers such as Arca, Gesaffelstein, Hudson Mohawke
>TLOP is hard to tell but he was definitely involved in every beat (i.e. Bam Bam sample at the end of famous, sample in the beginning of FSMH pt1)
around 808s/MBDTF is when he started acting more as a director and curator of other people's beats instead of producing them all by himself
but I dont think there will ever be a Kanye album where he isn't at least somewhat involved in the production side of things
also pusha t confirmed that King Push will be exclusively kanye beats so he might be back to solo production which would be cool
Well you do sound ignorant, I think the point wasn't that Taylor Swift and Max Martin have the same amount of popularity (which is obviously not true), but to never having heard of a guy that had written more #1 hits than even The Beatles is pretty ignorant for a music fan on a music board.
What are you talking about? This type of shit gets parroted all the fucking time. You're a fucking dumbass if it took you this long to realise what he said had some truth. Sup Forums is just random people on the internet. Talk about anything and it'll turn to t a shitflinging contest most of the time.
>What are you talking about? This type of shit gets parroted all the fucking time.
Yeah, but in other boards it generally is met with "fuck u fag" and sagebombing entire threads because anons are in denial and sperg the fuck out.
It didn't happen here and the thread staid on topic, that's what i meant (well, until you decided to post i guess).
yeah dw about me just had a shitty day. don't really come to Sup Forums much anymore. I couldn't take all the shit desu, the irony and baiting is way too blurred anymore and it messes with me.