What does Sup Forums think about Universal Basic Income?

What does Sup Forums think about Universal Basic Income?
To me, it seems inevitable, and a step in the right direction. Jobs are being eliminated due to automation at an ever increasing rate, and the class of people who have no marketable skills will only grow as time goes on. And it's not like they're lazy or particularily dumb, a truck/bus driver has been a necessary and useful job thus far, but it'll soon be mostly obsolete. There just won't be enough jobs to go around.

But I also feel like this is only a stopgap measure and might not work in capitalism. How can we guarantee that the market won't adjust in a way that makes it impossible again to live only on UBI?

Transhumanism is the answer. We must become an undying species that cast off our physical forms and live as machines/data in the new automated utopia. Being brains in a jar sounds awesome.
We'd keep a few million proles around to continue breeding just to keep a viable supply of human genetic data/ worker slaves.

DAILY REMINDER ALL ESTONIA FLAGS NOT POSTING DENTAL HYGIENE ARE NOT SECRET WHITE QTS

We'll first have to deal with the unrest of millions of people who are suddenly "not good enough" to feed themselves or contribute to society

>this meme again
Universal income = death of incentive = stagnation and decay

Transhumanist reporting in. Theres a bit more to that but yeah b-brains in jars..awesome..

Personally I want to be a 9 foot immortal bionic dragon so all your womens can be SCALED.

When automation and AI will sufficiently advance, the excess humans will be simply killed off one way or another leaving only elites and the highly educated specialists that can't be immediately replaced.

This x7billion.

not happening any time soon

council on foreign relations estimates it will be at least 50 years before economic conditions change enough that this becomes something to consider seriously

You get less of what you tax, and more of what you subsidize.

Taxing productivity and massively subsidizing inactivity will instantly begin a shift. The likely results will be:
1. More commercial activity gets pushed into black and grey markets
2. Traditionally productive individuals ("the rich who pay for all this") will produce less
3. The workers on the lower end will work less or not at all
4. The "takers" will breed without restriction or economic consideration

I know for a fact that a basic income would make me lose 1/3 of my staff instantly and probably mean closing the doors. The risk/reward equation is already precarious.

Were already witnessing the death of incentive since meanial jobs are dissapearing which werent paying a living wage in the first place forcing people to take out welfare supplements.

UBI can allow us to erase Obamacare, Social Security, Food Stamps and Welfare. In fact, UBI is cheaper in the long run, not to mention solving poverty will solve crime since most crimes are poverty driven. Hence why people who are financially secure commit less of them. This will enable people to prepare themselves for life as a citizen of teh future. Dont believe the incentive bullshit. People will still follow goals, likely goals they are actually good at and not meaningless burger flipping.

Sure, I agree with you, there will be a whole bunch of freeloaders. But is there a better option? If you provide a normal life for an ocean of freeloaders, there's bound to be some useful individuals among them. More than you'd get when pushing them into ghettoes without proper food or education, that's for sure.

the unemployment period is just a phase, people will adapt and learn new jobs suited for automation era. People were afraid the same thing during the industrial revolution

What they neglect to understand is progress compounds on progress making change exponential and not linear. They need to revise those estimates. 2020s-2030s will be make or break. If we keep sucking the dick of neoliberalist economics then China will have RICED us completely by 2100 because faggots like you have this religious attachment to a dying 19th century economic paradigm.

There won't be people to buy your innovative god-like product in the future. Can't you understand that? Most jobs will be done by bots. There is no escape, UBI is inevitable.

You kill them. This is the inevitable end to the meme. When technology makes man obsolete, man will be put away with. I know your soft liberal heart can't stand this notion, but it is the truth, and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

Look up Stanford University professor in-class socialism experiment. When you eliminate competition by forced average equality, everyone stops working as hard.

It's fine, you just eliminate the obsolete people and progress continues.

Progress was slow during the industrial revolution, and people were able to adapt. You won't be able to make a 40 year old assembly plant worker into a programmer or an engineer.

Universal basic income is a retarded concept that is not even mathematically possible.

>world economy = sample of retarded fat liberal cucked meriburgers living with their moms and "studying" in a institution for retarded pieces of shit disguised as university

You are beyond salvation

You sound like Brave New World.

Doesn't happen in Norway. I think you're underestimating how much people strive to make more money

so you will need few generations to adapt, and considering the fact that in the automaton era everything will become cheaper it will be affordable to implement some basic income during that period

"""""""obosolete""""""""""" and """""""""progress""""""""
compared to what?
and progress to what?

There are two options once you reach the hard economic tipping point:
>Ban automation of most jobs
>Kill everyone who becomes obsolete
Pick one and only one.

Who will buy your product if you kill your consumer?

...

That's just dumb. Why would we need to kill people just because they don't work?
We have the resources to support them, it's not like the robots are eating their share or something.

Less demand = less production
Things will even themselves out.

its getting voted next month in here

Obsolescence is non-comparable. It either is or isnt.
Progress toward the end-game: Interstellar colonialization.

Will people do the math on shit like this before considering it. Same with free college for everyone. Calculate how much it would cost and compare it to the amount of money available to tax. You have to remember that the cost will go up andbthe amount of money available will go down once this shit gets implemented.

This is now a Kek thread.

Kek is salvation.

Kek is future.

that a boring and useless end-game...
being obsolete implies there is a standard to be compared to... a purpose to fulffil

The majority of goyim nowadays exist only to serve and provide for the top ruling elite class. Once they will no longer need the serfs because they will have robots that are much easier to make, use and control, they will be purged.

Because when you remove growth you only get decay. It is in the best interest to cull the heard. This I basic natural law when you begin dealing with overpopulation. If a species if given an abundance of food and no competition it reproduces until all the available resources are depleted, then it starves back to manageable population. This leads to culling being the only way to reasonably prevent resource depletion.

>mass automation causes untold resource bounties
>people can't access these bounties due to foundational flaws in the capitalist paradigm
>the solution is to genocide half the population

then find a way to make the jobs more appealing to your staff

might as well start with the niggers :^)

Yes, that purpose is to further progress to interstellar colonization. Tell me, what other end-game do you see for human civilization?

it would actually save money because you could cut all healthcare and education. and since people won't be forced to work in shitty conditions you could abolish the minimum wage and most work regulations as well. people will use their small salary to buy healthcare, education etc if they want to.

>doesn't understand the importance of competition in the context of supply and demand
Please see my other comments.

Its been the same story for fucking centuries.

>oh no the wheel is going to take our jobs

>oh no the slaves are going to replace all the jobs

>oh no the industrial revolution is going to remove the need for labor

>oh no computers and industrial robots are going to replace manufacturing

New jobs and fields always come from technological progress

you're end-game contradicts you're statement of removing the """"obsolete"""" and there is no end-game because there is no purpose, but I'd rather be an immortal brain in a jar wich is more likely to happen that intersellar colonization.

Well that sounds quite reasonable.
See ? It genocide can't be THAT bad.

And then you end up with a race of uneducated do-nothings who are valueless and simoly coblume resources. This is why they must be culled when they become obsolete.

Machines replaced physical labor in the 1800's. Computers are coming close to replacing mental labor now. This wave of automation is not the same as the last. Even if they can't fully replicate the human mind, they can do simple jobs, and they already are. What jobs will humans take once their brains are as inferior to computers as your muscles are to a bulldozer? Basic income is still retarded in the current day and this wave of socialism must die unless it transforms into National Socialism. It would be nice if the future was a utopia, though.

Should you live another 40 years, your eyes will be opened in regards to our capacity of interstellar travel. I'm not just spooking you, either. Well, slightly.

While this has been true historically, it, like Moore's Law, has started running into diminishing returns.

We're going to need to restructure our whole society because of automation, I think this is a decent idea.

>national socialism
if anything the automation era will bring a global socialism

>What is quantum computing

sterilization should be a requirement for signing up. it's the only way the system could work. the rich and genetically gifted don't need the money

Now you're getting it brother :)

Yeah I'm sure we'll be hitting light speed in 50 years buddy
Even traveling at a faster speed than we can right now it would still take generations to reach the nearest star
Don't really feel great about opening up wormholes anytime soon

you're delusional.
why in the world would we ever coloinze another planet? for recources? an astroid is easier to land and mine on than a planet with a 13 lightyears from here. Not to mention, who is going to colonize the planet? You already remove the obsolete people on earth, so everyone is needed on earth...

The current theories and some laws of physics will be cracked open and greatry expanded upon. I mentioned your mind and our capabilities. One does not know what they do not know.

UBI seems to be the excuse for NEET behaviour instead of improving upon your qualifications or choosing a different profession/education etc.

Jobs aren't being lost by automation, as much as jobs are being lost to other countries that are happy to take them..

Ofcourse the NEETS won't admit this and try to justify their NEET behaviour by saying "oh it's muh automation" "oh not enough jobs cuz of that".. If there were enough jobs for them.. they would simply find another excuse for their socialist/communist belief that working for a living is slavery, and that they should be paid and incentivized to sit on their arse.

Yes i see right through you.

TL;DR No to UBI, neets are already too many as it is.. especially immigrant neets..

You're thinking in terms of the now, and that is your limiting factor.
I was called delusional in the 80s when I openly discussed gene therapy, genetically modified pathogens, and nano-robotics, yet, here we are.

THIS.
We may be reaching peak technology under current systems. But those being developed will birth another age of technological growth, which will far outpace the upward trajectory of the one we are seeing the end of.

sad fact is that even in this day and age people for some reason still expect to be able to go out and get some manual labour job and never have to better themselves in life.

>comparing the creation of the wheel to the creation of computers that can perform mental tasks faster and more efficiently than humans
False equivalency. Machines performing physical tasks freed up humans to do more mentally intensive tasks. Will everyone become an artist or a computer scientist once desk jobs get taken away? Things won't always just be okay. Things have been accelerating at a crazy rate the past few hundred years.

It's so weird that most burgers in this thread can't comprehend anything besides capitalism, it's rooted so damn deep in you.
Why do you talk about supply and demand, in a simple humanitarian situation.
Disregard monetary value for a second.
Earth produces enough food and energy to support the human population. Suddenly, there's not enough room in the abstract economic framework we use becauss we are not in survival mode anymore.
Who the fuck is at fault here, the framework or the people?

>yet, here we are.
shitposting on a pedophile community forum, yes how far you have risen.
dont they have a time limit on how long you can occupy a computer in the mental asylum?

Truth bomb

>dismissing ideas instead of refuting them
How high upon the pyramid do we sit, user?

Exactly.

All the automation stuff will do is switch the job market to different sectors and create new jobs that require different types of education or skillsets etc.

The future will be more educationally oriented and complex rather than jobs that require no to very little education to be able to do. That's the only thing that's going to change..

But NEETS fabricate it as some kind of doomsday cannon in order to justify them being NEETS.. This is why they always tie that argument together with calling for UBI.. cause what they really want is not to work and just sit on their ass getting paid with other peoples money the rest of their lives no matter what, and UBI if implemented is the ultimate guarantee for that.

NEET acceptance is already causing people with no money and no work getting massive amounts of kids that then Others have to frigging pay for aswell.. It has to stop very soon otherwise it's going off the deep end.. Because their NEET cash doesn't come out of thin air, it comes from the people who actually work for a living..

NEETS are like the ultimate parasite, i had a discussion in another thread about it earlier today where he actually called people who work "slaves/slave labour" that's how much these couch potatoes justify their own self entitled behaviour..

ok so we will just tell all those people they will die on their own I'm sure they will take it well and not resort to illegal things

comfortable enough to not being erased by your """"obsolete"""" theory

No, we will just use an engineered virus what we hold the vaccine for and give to select people (many unknowingly), and that will be that. They will never be told when they are going to be culled, but they will be.

No, it's just stupid.
In his system, you'll end up with increasingly fewer people, and all those machines that were built to eliminate forced labor are servicing less and less people.
How the fuck does that make sense?

Can someone explain how universal basic income makes any sense?

Where is this money coming from? If the government is giving you your income, therefore it's not taxed, how will they make the money to give people their income?

Also, won't the market just adjust to make UBI the new 0?

yes I'm sure no one will try and stop the murder of millions :^)

An obsolete machine ceases to utilize resources once it is retired, unlike humans.

Are you so sure? :^)

That is a stupid statement.

We need people to screw lids on things, run a machine that even a child can learn in 10 minutes, and place stickers on stuff.

We pay people $15/hr do do this work (way too much - it's probably worth $9.00. But we like to have a consistent staff and people who are friendly and nice to be around).

The only reason people do the work is that they need the $15/hr to get by.

I'm not going to pay someone $30/hr for screwing lids on things because prices would have to go up quite a bit and we'd be fucked sideways in one quarter. I'm not going to offer blowjobs in the breakroom either.

And don't say that they will be "bored" and happy to do the work on top of their free money. After all the extra taxes, the pay rate would probably end up being back down to $8/hr or so. The idea is complete bonkers

kill yourself moron

UBI is retarded as fuck. If it gets to the point where the majority of the population can't work, and this is permanent, why do you think these masses of useless people will be kept around?

It's a good idea. Everybody should be profiting from the welfare state, not just niggers, single moms and autists. It shouldn't be high enough to allow a comfortable existence off the dole of course (cut the current welfare payouts in half). Getting rid of neetbux centers that are useless bureaucratic pitholes will also help with the cost.

africa and middle east and other places have way too many kids, it's not really a secret.. Those places need a one child policy immediately.. Other nations are already using their breadbasket to feed these stupid incompetent NEETS and their too many children that they insist on having without themselves having the ability to provide for them..

West and europe on the other hand, should start having many more kids, cause the opposite is the case for them.. we have too few kids because we're concerned with bringing them up right, if we are good parents, how we're going to pay for them.. to not have too many to impact negatively our environment etc.

These faggot migrant neets just poop them out like a mass production facility, without even thinking about any of these things and barely care about them when they're out.. And then hold them up in front of other peoples faces and go "help muh poor child.. he needs halp" he needs a better fucking mother and father that's what he/she needs you stupid cunt..

Under no circumstances should these people be allowed to mass migrate to west or europe, simply because they managed to procreate like rats.. they made their bed now they must fix it or lay in it..

It's rough but there it is..

>automations guise
its not going to happen just because you saw some retarded neck beard video about it. The whole automation argument was started just last year.
I bet people in the Industrial revolution were also bitching about industrialization claiming it would end the worlds workforce. its not going to.

What do you think will happen with these people? Mass genocide of 6.5 billion?

It's a trap. The ideals of basic income are incredibly noble, but at what point do we just become the Proles? When you are dependent on government to survive you are not free. You are a slave.

Giving people free money doesn't help. What we need to do is reduce the cost of living without just artificially subsidizing things (and thus just kicking the cost down the road).

So what's the end goal here? Compete with robots for jobs until only one human is left?
I thought we could have the robots for all the boring stuff so humans could do things that we actually like?

> I am a high school dropout, the post

Morality is not universal, newfriend. If I can selectively recruit people with verified ideological viewpoints necessary to carry out these tasks, who then would stop us or even know what was happening?

UBI is communism/socialism lite.. creates dependence on the state.. and after a few generations of that.. the switch to the fullblown thing becomes way too easy, and then shit rolls down hill.. fast

you sound like teen with autism.

Your talking about communism. It doesn't work. How many times are you going to be tricked when they invent new words for things. Basic income is just communism. Communism is just slavery.

This.

It is a trap. If only our founding fathers knew how strong the desire to be slaves was.

The goal is to give our species enough legroom, so to speak, to accomplish interstellar colonization, at which point, people can breed back to reasonable population, under reformed conditions which will betier serve progress. This cycle fluctuates until we reach biological immortality (with supportable resource) for all. The human race is not a linear function.

Lel no. The USSR didn't have any sort of UBI. What it had instead, were useless "garbage pile projects" that ensured the 100% employment quota will be met.

for most people being NEET is not a choice.

More personal attacks instead of reasonable refutations. Please, continue shedding your brilliant light upon us.

No, but probably left to die. I just can't envision a future where 90% of the population doesn't work, has no purpose, which can sustain itself.

Why have money/income at all? Worked for Star Trek

people expect to much of people. someone working 40 hours rasing 3 kids is not going to magically better themselves. You can find some anect dotes. But thats not the real world for most people.

I have refuted your theory, you're just ignoring it

It would be a step in the right direction IF and ONLY IF ALL other forms of redistribution cease immediately.
Otherwise it's just adding relatively less shitty shit on top of a huge load of relatively more shitty shit, and hence, my friend, it is shit.