Is Paying Rent A Scam?

What are Sup Forums's thoughts on this.

I live in an around 50 to 60 year old building.

The building is paid for a gazillion times. The cost of me living here are not that high since i take care of which is not even my own.

I also put in some money up front .. added a new floor, painted the walls and put some wallpapers on. All in all its taken care of.

What are the owners true costs? Even the taxes, garbage memes, water and shit is included in my rent.

I pay for the electricity myself aswell.

I get the point that its necessary in new buildings to get back the costs but the building i live in now is a pure money maker for my landlord.

Is this justified?

Other urls found in this thread:

zillow.com/wikipages/List-of-Closing-Costs-and-Fees/
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>Is this justified?
It doesn't matter.

Not an arguement

how so?

Shouldnt a society uphold some decency? It already spiraled out of control in many places.

I get why its happening but it seems there is no end to this spiral nor does anyone talk about it.

"Society" is just a bunch of people doing whatever they want. You can't expect them all to act a certain way. Shit happens.

No, it's not justified. You should just steal the building that guy paid for and keep it for yourself.

Don't pay for a house of your own though. That'd be stupid.

Its justified in the sense that they are not obligated to let you live there for free or for any price lower than what they ask for.

Its why I wont move out of my moms house until I am making a comfortable amount of money. The pros just do not outweigh the cons and I get along very well with my mom.

Yes, it's a scam.

Now move out of there and live on a bench so that you don't have to pay rent.

over here in belgium usually the landlord pays for renovations, isn't that the same with you guys?

Rent is justified. Just because the building if paid off doesn't mean there aren't property taxes, or maintenance costs, etc.

Is buying food a scam?

10 years of rental income is usually the price of the unit.

The issue with renting is if you pay 1k/mo and rent for 3 years, you've lost 36k. If you were paying a mortgage of 1k/mo, you'd have roughly the 36k in equity. It doesn't make sense to rent if you're in a position to buy.

Just trash the place when you move out. Do thousands and thousands of euros in damage. Sure, you'll lose your security deposit, but it's worth it. And they were probably going to jew you out of it anyway. I have to sue three different landlords for the return of my security deposit. Now I just trash the place.

Food is a scam in general. I shouldn't have to eat to live.

It's a business, OP.

You living there is not for charity. It's so the owner can make a profit.

Don't like it? Move out.

are you a fucking retarded piece of shit. You need to live somewhere and they have a place to rent out for you. Guess what you need that fucking place cuz u need shelter so they will charge you as much as they know ur willing to pay dumb fk

Your mind is wrapped. You're a brainwashed socialist, I'm truly sorry for you.

Do you have anywhere else to live ? Would it be better or cheaper to live somewhere else ? If so then go there, if not then shut up.

Don't want to pay a landlord for living somewhere ? Then shut up and work to buy your own place.

No, renting/leasing vs buying each have their own pros and cons. Most of the cost of housing goes to jew bankers via interest, and property taxes. The owner makes money because he took the risk and put up money.

The assumption that the value of something is equivalent to the cost to produce it is a bullshit marxist idea.

It's an extreme simplification, and not true at all in the real world.

You've been fooled the socialist propaganda.

Your only other options are

1. Take a loan from a bank and buy a house or apartment and own that, pay the load instead of rent.

2. Inherit property from family (depending on where you live you might need to take out a loan to pay inheritance tax, but it's much less than a full house loan)

3. Move back in with family.

4. Make enough money that you are able to pay for a house up front without a loan at the same time that you're paying rent where you currently reside or live rent free at parents.

>property taxes
that's silly. Why would you tax land?

For the price one pays in rent most could qualify for a mortgage on a condo the exact dimensions of said apartment.

The problem with owning a home is that you're solely responsible for its upkeep, insurance and paying taxes.

Condos have commons fees which cover all of that, but more often than not exceed the mortgage expenses...which is asinine.

If you prefer city living, buy a co-op or condo, if you live outside of a city, buy a house. That's what I did. I bought a 4br house and moved 3 of my friends into vacant rooms charging them $600 a month in rent. They paid all the bills, everyone benefitted from it. When I got engaged I asked them to leave.

Only idiots rent, yes...my friends were idiots for paying off 1/5 of my house.

If there weren't any property taxes or maintenance costs it'd be justified just stealing some guy's house and living there, of course. Good point!

This is why I'll never rent anything to anyone and always make a point to get paid for everything upfront. People are a bunch of communist savages nowadays.

Doesn't matter, it's a free market and you choose to live there. It was your choice that the rent was well worth the money and you were happy to exchange your work for his roof over your head.
If society as a whole didn't decide that the rent was very reasonable and well worth the cost, there wouldn't be demand to live in his building and he would be forced to lower his prices.

To get money. Same reason you tax anything else.

Go read what rent-seeking is.
Don't reinvent the wheel.

No, property is inherently valuable and not utilizing it is wasting the value.
If it wasn't being rented to you to live in, it could be used as space to build/grow/sell things.
Letting some deadbeat live there for free is equivalent to letting it sit vacant.

The OP lives in a country which exhumes corpses when cemetery fees aren't paid. In comparison taxes aren't too terrible. Property tax in your town is what pays for road maintenence and for the police/fire department. It's mutually beneficial.

>You can't expect them to all act a certain way

Its what we do though

Thats why we have laws, constitutions etc. We expect a framework.

>that guy paid for

He didnt even pay for it. It was his dad hes just managing it now. Now its paid for multiple times already.

I get that but the taxes are part of my rent. I literally pay for it.

Maintenance costs - sure i'll pay for them but rent prices are way way higher than the "true" costs.

i didnt have to put up any security deposits cause i did all the work here .. like i explained in my OP

Unfortunately its borderline impossible to afford a house in Germany as a single men.

Banks won't give you a credit ever.

What if the demand is only there cause not enough new houses get build?

You rent so that you don't have any responsibility to pay a mortgage.

Rent is perfectly justified because it is for people who need a flexible structure for their cost of living. If you miss a rent payment you get an angry call and a passive aggressive letter, you miss a mortgage payment a very polite man who looks like the undertaker will show up at your door to break your hands before the cops send you to debtors prison

If you are secure enough to be able to do long term projects on your rented home you should either consider buying it or atleast look at getting a mortgage and buying a place of your own.

>Is this justified?
Supply and demand.

You are not paying for keeping the house intact. You are paying for the profit of the owner.
Same thing when you buy something in the supermarket.

no you wouldn't, most of that payment would go to interest and escrow. but your point is that buying is better, which i would agree with if you are in a position to stay put in one spot for 15-30 years.

I'll just leave this here
zillow.com/wikipages/List-of-Closing-Costs-and-Fees/
Between all the pointless fees involved in buying a house, old people have a vested interest in keeping available housing low. The property values of their homes go up when the supply is low, so you're stuck being their little bitches forever. So they make lots of fees and laws to prevent you from buying a home. Construction companies have to deal with these barriers so they don't make money on building cheap houses.
don't ever complain about it either, or you're a socialist who hates muh "free" market

Depends on where you live.
If you live in a city then it isn't that much of a scam.

Owning property in a city is a very expensive thing, so paying rent is more feasible than owning some land.
Also you can't really own a room in a building, so that means you would have an entire building in a city to yourself.

So pretty much renting is you letting someone else live in part of your property for something of equal value.

Sure you do not own something, but being able to live near some place where you can not afford to own property is an investment.

Buying a house might be a better investment however because all you have to do is pay off the expense of owning it then you have it, you can sell off your house for money, it is a form of currency. But owning property is very expensive, depending on your job, you will make more money by investing it in something else besides property, working at a job, and just paying rent to live near your job is better than owning a house nowhere near an optimal job opportunity.

>if you are in a position to stay put in one spot for 15-30 years.

nobody is anymore in todays society

we need to be flexible or we can't pursue our careers. That way we get cucked in paying rent for the rest of our lives.

Yes rent is money down the drain
Only first worlders fall for it
Landlords are able to NEET comfortably off rent money
Buy property as soon as you can

you aren't factoring in interest.

but yes you will have equity, and eventually 100% equity when you pay off the mortgage, but not every dollar is going towards the principal

interest rates are super low right now, it basically makes no sense to rent when you can buy - unless you are moving very frequently (ie college student), because there are unrecoupable overhead expenses (finance costs, closing costs, selling expenses) every time you buy and sell a home

>He didnt even pay for it. It was his dad hes just managing it now. Now its paid for multiple times already.
So when your dad dies you're gonna hand over everything he owns to the poor? It's his inheritance. Why should the shit his dad paid for be handed over to you?

You have no respect for property rights, you fucking thief.

I'm out of this thread. I have low tolerance for communist bullshit.

>If you miss a rent payment you get an angry call and a passive aggressive letter, you miss a mortgage payment a very polite man who looks like the undertaker will show up at your door to break your hands before the cops send you to debtors prison

In America, it's actually the opposite. Legally, it's much harder to get kicked out of a home that you have a mortgage on compared to one that you rent.

That's why during our housing collapse of 2008, many people simply stopped paying their mortgage, because the house was worth less than what the owed. It often took the banks 1.5-2 years to get them fully evicted from the property.

Conversely, a landlord can get a nonpaying tenant out of an apartment in as little as two weeks via court order and sheriff enforcer, in many circumstances.

>but the building i live in now is a pure money maker for my landlord.

Yes, that's generally how running a business works if you're successful at it. Do you think you should be allowed to just live on the guy's property for free?

The laws, constitutions, etc. are just a subsection of "people doing whatever they want". Some people want to be politicians, so they end up making laws.

no i don't. I respect that but should the costs be10 Times higher than they actually are?

Lets say it costs 100€ per person but the rent is 1000€ ... 900€ every month for free for no other reason than a shortage of living space created by banks and politicians to cuck us into wageslavery until we die.

Why shouldn't you pay to live in someone else's place?

No because you pay for a place to live.


You get a place to live, see.

It's called rent seeking. Not a scam per se, but about on par with taxation

no i dont expect to live here for free

I'm happily paying for all taxes and whatever it costs (i even pay for it already .. the taxes, garbage stuff etc - its listed on my yearly overview bill memes).

Its just a fraction of the actual rent. He never had any maintenance costs here either (so far) but even if you factor that in its still just a fraction of my rent.

I'd even give him some profit on top but this is getting out of hand entirely.

Then move cities. You are not entitled to live in the place of your choosing at the price of your choosing. You can live exactly were you want at a price you have no control over, or you can move and live at the price of your choosing in a place you have no control over.
If demand was too high and prices got too steep the free market would solve the problem with other businessmen who would come in and build new buildings to take advantage of the lucrative rent profits, until the margins of profit got so low that it wasn't justified in building more houses.

Paying rent? Who fucking does that in their own country? Only a fool would.

You wat? Do you also believe you should be able to buy an iPhone for its assembling cost?

>If demand was too high and prices got too steep the free market would solve the problem with other businessmen who would come in and build new buildings to take advantage of the lucrative rent profits

>what is cronyism

it doesnt work like that in the ((current year))

the free market is just an illusion

i love you somali bro

hope you post pics of your house soon

>what is opporunity cost
He can sell the property and invest in stocks or some other shit. Why should he just let it sit there to be used by you for free?

>muh free market
The fact that rent seeking exists at all proves your theoretical models false

Think of it this way: You're paying the landlord not to sell the apartment to somebody else.

>I'd even give him some profit
HOLY SHIT

Like you're a fucking saint for "giving" him "some profit" out of the goodness of your heart.

I tried to go but I can't look away from this trainwreck of a thread. I must force myself.

*glurf glorf*
Mmm thank you mr shekelstein
*slurrrrrrp*

except in my example i'd pay full new price for a 60 year old iPhone and the guy after me pays the full new price again and again and again

>rent-seeking

others have pointed it out already! go look it up!

thats kind of the opposite of how it should work though in a "free market"

this is what enslaves us all

You're adorable. Tell me all about your plan to go around stealing houses from people. I'm sure they're all jews, of course.

> 60 year old
That's not how property value works

No, you'd have maybe 5k in equity because of Subtract house loan fees, property taxes. You might even be in the minus area. This is why people rent instead of buy you fool

>go look it up!
While I go look it up you'll just move into my house and stay there without compensating me. Nice try.

> thats kind of the opposite of how it should work though in a "free market"
Lel, no it's not. In a real free market, prices would be even higher. Welcome to lolbertarianism. Decent housing is scarce in Western Europe and our countries are overpopulated.

>thats kind of the opposite of how it should work though in a "free market"
>this is what enslaves us all

How is it the opposite?

He can make a lot more money in the short term by selling the house to somebody, than he can by renting it to you.

How is that against the free market?

>Be GRATEFUL you had the chance to suck dis cock, goyim! You some kinda thief tryin ta steal my house and gas me?

if you dont like paying rent, easy, just move out!

Do you know how businesses work? Do you think people only pay what is necessary to recover costs?
The cost of goods in a free market is determined by what consumers are willing to pay. Obviously your apartment is worth that much BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING THAT MUCH.

The people who bought that building have the entire value of the building tied up in the building. They made their capital illiquid so that they could yield a return on that investment. If they don't get a high enough return on that investment, then they take their capital elsewhere and get a more desirable return. If rent is reduced so much that their return is no longer comparable to other ventures, then they invest their capital in something else and you lose your home.

Yes, the prices they are charging are fair. If they weren't fair, people wouldn't live there.

Learn 2 economics.

OP is acting like a "muh feelings" feminist who doesn't understand how the world works

>provide no benefit to the economy
>make money anyway
Reality isnt an econ 101 graph

Don't know, I don't pay rent and I see no reason why anyone would unless they are actually, you know, not the owner of the property and are just renting it from someone.

I own the property and I just pay for water, heating, Internet, electricity and maintenance. Oh and whatever taxes the fascists in the government come up with.

Hay germanbro, I have been gone from sometime, but I promise I will post my living quarters in my next thread. You will be in for a suprise.

>paying rent is a jewish conspiracy
>just squat in someone's house and pay them nothing because that's not greedy
I am learning so much today.

>decent housing is scarce in western europe

yeah i wonder why that is goyim ...

in a free market the owner is the one who is worried about not being able to rent to me anymore but to someone else providing me with a better housing experience for less money

since the politicians, banks and housing businesses have 0 interests in that happening there is no such thing as a "free housing market" in western europe

Germany has these large organizations for example that rent out a lot of property. They actively bribe and lobby politicians so that there will always be a shortage of available living space. That keeps their profits huge and our rents high.

>He pays rent while rapefugees get free, brand new housing

You are a massive moron.

> complains about rent

Then buy the apartment? You won't need to pay rent then.

> but I can't afford it!

That's why you're paying rent you moron.
If you don't enjoy it or think its unfair (which it isn't) enjoy being homeless.

Fucking moron

After posting my response, I've read some of OPs messages, and I regret saying anything. OP is clearly either underaged and therefore knows nothing about the world or is undereducated, yielding the same outcome.

Go read a book or some shit before trying to reinvent economics on your own via Sup Forums.

>Do you want to live in my house?
>Yes, I do
>I'm asking for X amount
>Yes, I would pay that
>Ok, we have a deal
>This is unfair. I'm not paying you anymore rent. This is my house now.

>in a free market the owner is the one who is worried about not being able to rent to me anymore but to someone else providing me with a better housing experience for less money

In a free market, it's always both.

The people who are buying need to offer more than anybody else.

The people selling need to offer less than anybody else.

If housing is too expensive in germany, don't live there. That's how the free market actually works.

>Youre not ecstatic with me charging you out the ass because physical space limitations prevent competition from actually occurring?
>Help! Thief! Gypsy thieves!

This

You rent, you pay a set amount of money for a place every month, but the landlord has to pay for all the other expenses. You also have the freedom to move out within a month's notice. No sweat.

You buy your own place, it's an investment you have to take care of. You have to pay property tax, you have to pay for all sorts of maintenance, and if niggers move next door the value of your property can plummet overnight. If you're planning to start a family, buy a house at least ~5km from nigger infested areas.

You can basically rent anywhere with no risk, and while investing in buying your own property seems wiser, it has a hell of a lot more risk involved.

I pay like 37.5% in capital gains taxes on a few apartments I rent in the US in NYC. The building is paid for, I do write off expenses, so the gov. does take a good chunk of the rent payment, way more than any other possible cost, the gov. makes out good doing nothing. I DO KISS MY TENANTS ASSES THOUGH. The heat in winter is a stable 73F all around the clock, they don't pay for hot water or water usage either, they only pay natural gas for their stove and electricity they use, such as for lights and air conditioning. Something breaks, I try to repair it using professionals in a timely manner. A tenant like you spending so much to remodel the apartment would make me feel bad you had to do all that and I would say to bill me for it so I can at least write it off. I'm not sure if you can write off stuff in Germany like this though.

False. Land drives up the cost of owning a house. Land is finite. If you want to own a house cheaply then you need to move out into the countryside where you can buy a 1 acre plot of land for less than 2 years worth of rent.
You are not entitled to live in a city. You choose to live in a city and you choose to pay the price.

I myself prefer an upscale apartment over a house. No yard work, no maintenance. Toilet starts leaking water at 2 a.m.? I don't pay the $300 plumbing bill. I like living close to other people, I find it enjoyable to see my neighbors in the hallway or the elevator to chat in the morning. You can move out of an apartment whenever you want, within lease terms, were moving houses can be a huge burden of paperwork and fees. If you choose the wrong place to buy a house, 20 years down the road the neighborhood could go to shit and your property value falls through the floor.

Were you coerced into paying the rental agreement?

If no, then this is justified.

nice i can't wait

so uh you are saying businesses work like that:

>invest 100k
>get 100k back 10 times
>have 1 million

never invest anything again

expect to get 1 million again and again until the world ends

no additional value gets created?

How is the "initial investment" argument a thing if you already got it back 10 times.

The expected return is pretty much infinite.

Like i said in my OP its completely understandable if its a new building etc but this one here is at least 60 years old and paid for multiple times so your arguments don't make sense.

Even compared to traditional investing the money 60 years ago instead of binding it up in this illiquid asset its still huge and since we all get cucked by this shortage artificially (there is no free market) its an unfair game.

Land Lord Jew here.

Over the past 10 years me and everyone else have doubled rent prices. Why? Big tech companies are moving and paying huge bucks to their employees. That means prices go up on everything, including real estate. Part of the what you are being is a rental unit within a 10 minute drive of these nice jobs. It's part of the value. If you want a good deal move out of town, they have the same rental units for half the price but it's a 4 hour commute to the nearest decent job.

Also repairing things is fucking. The city, the county, the state, the fed, the contractor, the union they all want a cut of my shekels. A building is collectively damaged by all the tenents and so they all need to pay for it. Awhile ago I had a dindu nuffin burn down half the roof. We think he fell passed out from his malt liqueur while smoking his cigarettes but couldn't prove anything. Insurance premiums went up after that. Before that we had a Mexican couple move in and we got an infection of some huge giant bug I had never seen before.

Well said. I'm doing the same thing right now. Just bought a house and have a friend paying rent and half of utilities. I charged him a bit less than normal but I've known him forever and it still saves me close to 400 dollars a month + those utilities on a 1500 dollar mortgage.

Market forces retard, they reason why rent cost so much is because people are willing to pay that much.

yeah but unlike public housing most apartments are decent to live in and generally much safer. as long as your not living next so some curryhead or drunkard you should be okay. most people generally live only 2-3 years in an apartment anything longer and your just cucking yourself out of a decent home.

Are you in NYC brother? How do you jews do this? I'm just a goy who wants to learn! Teach me!

How come there aren't more homeless people with rent being so expensive?

I live in a city. I make around $10 per hour. I can't afford a one bedroom apartment. That shit is like fucking over $500 per month. I still live with my parents.

The only way that I could afford to live on my own would be if I had like three or four roommates in some shitty house/duplex. Is that even better than living with my parents? How? It's equally as pathetic in my eyes, shared housing is shared housing. If I live with some random cocksuckers I run the risk of one of them stopping paying rent or breaking the lease and getting us all evicted. Or other dumb bullshit like that.

>Were you coerced into paying the rental agreement?

the alternative is losing my job, living on a park bench and starving to death

so yeah kinda feels like i am being coerced into paying htis much rent

nobody likes paying that much

they are actively trying to prevent the creating of new living space for dubios reasons that can't be explained anymore

i live in Munich btw

You might call it a scam.
Housing/capitalism is a system that is meant to fuck over the poor. It forces you to a choices that fucks you over.

Option 1: Buy a house to get fucked over by jewish bank interest rates because you are poor. Have to buy insurance/closing fees/taxes. If you have to move within 5 years, you literally get nothing when selling because most of your money went towards interest.

Option 2: If you do rent, its literally throwing away your money for someone else's benefit.

Nobody likes paying that much but they do anyway, what is so hard to understand about this?

There's no magic. Invest wisely, intensely manage your costs and reap the benefits later.

>but they do it anyway

they have to or else they end up on the streets

whats so hard to understand about the fact that there is no such thing as a free market here?

if there was we had lower rents but ((they)) don't want us to pay less

>I also put in some money up front .. added a new floor

If you put this kind of money into a rental you are a fucking moron

>no additional value gets created?

Your concept of value is wrong. Value isn't stuff.

"Giving somebody a place to live" is a valuable act.

The apartment isn't the value. The act is the value.

>Why don't people let me live in a building they own for free?

I don't understand how I, a neet that hasn't gone to school in 5 years and just dicks around all day, can still be less retarded than most of the people on the internet.

What is wrong with people?

>socialists don't understand startup capital and upkeep
Do you genuinely have mental issues?

>force politicians to maintain a monopoly on who to give a place to live in in a certain area

doesnt seem like value to me. Seems like you are ruining your own people.

Keep the wealth in the family. The worst part of real estate is the first 50 years when you have to pay it off. Also tax rates are based on the most recent purchase price. My jew-grand father bought these stuff in the 60s and we are still working with the original price.

Keep everything a trust fund so that if your children get a divorce the building is not split in two. Have as few as heirs as possible to consolidate wealth in one person. I am the 3rd in a generation of Bergs. My child will literally be able to be a NEET and live off rent money. Also teach your children to be miserly Jews and not piss away all the shekels.

Avoid renting to niggers and mexicans as possible. Asians and gay men make the best tenants because they are clean and do not damage property. Do not ever rent to a Lesbian couple no matter what you do.