Had a random thought and wanted to share.
The universe can't be infinite.
Think about it if it was any object in the universe would make up some extremely small percentage of that space.
An extremely small percentage of infinity is still infinity, therefore, since objects in our universe are finite, the universe must be finite.
Ok
But what about what's past the "objects"?
(OP)
>since objects in our universe are finite
What warrants that assumption?
irrational numbers are infinite yet I can draw a unit triangle with a hypotenuse of root 2
Just from observation. We can't really rationalize an infinite object because they don't exist
Yeah, but that is just a limitation of our number system that irrational numbers are irrational.
If we had a number system based on root 2 then our integers would be irrational
A limitation of mathematics is it's correlation to the real world. Look at anything like Zeno's paradox and it's clear that there's there's a disconnect between the realm of mathematics and physics.
If the universe is expanding, if energy can't be created or destroyed, matter doesn't just appear, should the universe, in theory, have the same amount of matter as when it started? Just growing further apart or something? Or am I just stupid
I don't know too much about this
Also though if the universe is expanding does that mean anything as towards the properties of gravity
Like shouldn't the shit be staying together
The Earth is flat
reality is a paradox
>An extremely small percentage of infinity is still infinity
Yes but objects in our universe are finite, so they don't make up a percentage of infinity. Infinity just means something goes on forever, it never ever ends. So objects in our universe would all take up 0.0000000001% of the space, except that number has infinite zeroes in it so it is equal to zero as far as we are concerned.
Shits just getting farther apart, think about a balloon getting pumped up with air. The mass says the same, but it gets bigger and bigger.
Yeah, I think Zeno fucks my theory up.
since the universe is infinite then the object/universe ratio would be undefined. Imagine if the ocean were infinite, you take a glass of water out of the ocean and there is still infinite water, you've only captured a portion and made it finite.
or at least we havent found any. even a finite universe is a really really big field of pure probability.
You're correct. As the universe expands, the distance between objects in space will grow infinitely, outpacing the light from stars. Eventually we will be completely alone in the universe, give or take a few galaxies that are locked to us gravitationally. The sky will contain only stars from our own local cluster.
I mean a small percentage of infinite mass is still infinite by definition of infinity
And I get what you are say that it could pretty much be zero, but it isnt zero, objects have mass. That's why there is a paradox
Infinity just keeps going. If you are in an infinitely large universe, no matter how long or how fast you travel you will never reach the end, because there is no end, that is how infinity works. But you travel from end to end of a finite universe. granted, it may take 10^100000000000000000000000000000000000 years to do so but you will still be able to define where it starts and ends.
Looked up Zeno's Paradox and got a list
Any particular one or just theme that you can use limited numerical systems/rules of them to make possible things seem theoretically impossible
I get what youre saying, but I still don't think it is possible for finite and infinite things to exist in the same reality.
So an infinite ocean and a finite glass can't both exist
Underrated post.
The things that make up objects are finite OP?
Go smoke some more weed, maybe then you will think of something specisl, snowflake.
Energy Torus Model. Infinite but also limited.
>The universe can't be infinite.
>Think about it if it was any object in the universe would make up some extremely small percentage of that space.
>An extremely small percentage of infinity is still infinity, therefore, since objects in our universe are finite, the universe must be finite.
So, you've taken HS level math.
>Think about it if it was any object in the universe would make up some extremely small percentage of that space.
You can't be a % of infinity.
How do you know objects aren't infinite? Maybe space and matter can be subdivided infinitely
The most logical shape for the Universe. Constant and simultaneous contraction and expansion. Constant recycling of materials. Constant and enclosed existence.
I dont smoke
I had a math minor in college so get BTFO
What I mean is that if you take 1% of all the objects in an infinite set. That 1% is infinite
Infinity means it just keeps going, man. An infinite ocean can have a sky above it, a sea floor below, and even some islands here and there. But it will just keep going forever, stretching as far as the eye can see. I don't understand your logic that infinite objects cannot exist along with finite objects.
I'm gonna smoke a blunt and come back to this thread. Should be fun.
Your thought has been shown to not make sense so give it up.
Oh that's crazy... so are we on the other side of that thing since shit is expanding for us?
if god and mirrors isn't real how come our eyes are real?
checkmate atheists
Could we guess the max distance populated by the stars we can see or would the time it takes the light to reach us put a cap on the distance we could perceive (stars further in light years than the age of the earth wouldn't be observable)?
Or how do they measure/observe dark matter
Can't they guess at the distance and quantity of mass by the gravitational effects it exerts on everything else?
And if there's no mass past a certain point, would that just be considered the end of the universe? What if past a certain point it's just a vacuum for an infinite distance, does that actually mean anything if there's literally nothing in that space/nothing exists there?
I like space
My logic is simply, and piece of something infinite must be infinite.
I'm not saying it correctly depicts our universe, but, as far as I'm concerned, it is rational, and you can't disprove something rational even if the thing you are using to disprove it is also rational
*My logic is simply a piece of something infinite must be infinite.
Of course the universe is finite, but the multiverse is infinite.
Have you considered that there are different sizes of infinite? For example, there are infinite countable whole numbers. There are also infinite prime numbers, but it's a smaller infinity.
Once you get down to counting quarks everything is infinite as far as we're concerned.
There's small basis to your theory.
I too enjoy space
No it doesnt
Cool
We can't see anything that is further than 14 billion light years (age of the universe, not earth) that's why it's called "the observable universe".
I took a class in college about that actually.
There are only three kinds of sets finite, countably infinite, and unaccountably infinite
countably infinite is something that you can reasonably count, but it is infinite, like the amount of integers 1,2,3,....
uncountablly infinite has more things than countably infinite things, so the infinite is bigger, an example is all the numbers. so 1, 1.000000000000000000000000000000000000000...1. You see there are no standard subdivisions like there are in countably infinite
so the amount of whole numbers is the same as the amount of prime numbers actually, because they are both countable
it helps if you think of it like a balloon getting 'bigger' the more air is blown into it, its not really expanding itself into some other ether, just increasing the surface area of itself.
thats about as simple as i can put it, if you want more info go to /sci/
No one knows if the universe is infinite or not. Past the edge of the observable universe we have no idea. But if there is an end then what is past it?
A piece of something infinite is either finite, or infinite. It isn't just infinite because it takes up space. Something infinite is something that goes on forever. If you can measure an object's volume, length, mass, etc then it is finite, since it can be measured. But once you are unable to measure an object's volume, or mass, or any other measurable property of the object it is infinite. A pint of water weighs one pound, takes up 28.875 cubic inches of space. The universe weighs a stupid amount but still probably a finite amount, but takes up an infinite, unmeasurable amount of volume. That is the difference between infinite and finite objects.
Lol look up theories about the big rip. Also try to consider the idea of a finite set of boundaries within an infinite coordinate plane.
You can arbitrarily set the boundaries such that if the amount of space that they occupy it's fine night yet to determine the area of the coordinate plane you would always be approaching Infinity got to do a little bit of calculus there.
Questions like yours can be explained using math but are easier to Grasp using Concepts
I think the term "infinity" in regard to the universe, somewhat takes on a somewhat meaning. In part to do with the universes perpetual expansion but also our own lack of knowledge on the subject. Knowledge we are likely never to understand due to said expansion. So "infanite" in this case could partialy mean "we will never know". Not to mention it's entirely plauseable for timespace itself to be infinite but energy and matter to be finite. At least to me it does.
What if it's portion of Infiniti is infinitely small dun dun dun
But if you're talking about actual things, like the stars, you can have a fuckton of them even to the point where you don't have space/resources to even record the number but there is a definite/finite amount of them, right? They don't just go on forever, because things like mass can't be infinite, right? Or am I wrong?
I feel like objects that can be subdivided into units are, by definition, finite and can't be infinite because they can be divided into a whole amount (of atoms or molecules or whatever) while distance or the measure of a vacuum is just a glitch in our number/mathematical system because there's nothing to measure; it'll always be relative and undefined - it's like making an equation entirely out of variables and then thinking you'll be able to solve it without finding their values. Isn't infinity just a placeholder to bypass the limitations of mathematical processes so using relationships to other things you can eventually get rid of it to find an answer? like switching from the never ending .33333 to 1/3? The concept of division doesn't actually make sense unless you have a measure of the whole, and if you say it's infinity instead of, say, a, then you say 1% of the universe is 1∞/100 instead of saying you just don't know what "a" is. Treating infinity as a number isn't applicable to things, only relative/arbitrary concepts like distance.
TL;DR
If "infinite" means big, then yes, it's infinite because we can't define it's distance because we probably can't choose an endpoint in a vacuum or constantly shifting, possibly more than three dimensional space
If "infinite" means massive or endlessly filled with shit, it can't actually be infinite, has to be a multiple of a unit of mass, we just don't know what multiple.
Op your autistic put the bong down
The universe isnt infinite. Its trillions and trillions of lightyears big and still explanding. No one ever implied it was infinite
Also this. The term "universe" includes the parts where our laws of physics don't apply.
There is a difference between the observable universe and the entirety of the universe there's a such thing as the Event Horizon from which no light could ever conceivably reach Earth you want some YouTube links?//
Oh, so you and OP are in agreement, then.
The universe, even the observable universe, is unfathomably large. I really like this picture. it looks like a bunch of stars but actually there are only a couple individual stars in the image, the ones with the spikes of light coming from them. The rest are entire fucking galaxies. When I first saw this it blew my mind. Yet all of those galaxies that are in the entire universe aren't even big at all compared to infinity.
Some people think that the universe could be infinite
I mean
You got anything that talks about what's observable
Like does gravity have a set distance that it effects or does it's strength just keep diminishing exponentially or something, never actually reaches zero
Could we observe that?
Yes
They're fucking stupid. Infinite doesnt exist. Infinite oxygen, infinite space, infinite light, none of it. The universe is expanding from the big bang until it eventually stops and comes back together again due to gravity, starting another.
Actually yeah hmu with some links
bs , you can have a finite sub section of infinity ... the % can be approxmiate 0 since so small num/infinity ... but that does not make the object of infinite size ... its not like all of a sudden as big as the universe itself which you have stated is infinite in size
nice meme btw
>its trillions and trillions of lightyears big
wat? If you mean the observable universe, it's a sphere of 92 billion light-years centered around the observer (as every single point in the universe has it's own observable universe). We have no idea about anything past that
There's a finite amount of energy in the universe, things are energy, matter is energy.
What's infinite is space, there's an infinite amount of space in any given volume of the universe, it works both ways big scale and small scale
...
Gravity is a lot like light, actually. It travels at the same speed as light, too. If the sun suddenly disappeared, the earth would continue rotating around where the sun used to be for about 8 minutes, and the light would still continue to hit earth for about 8 minutes, and it would stop orbiting that spot at the same time the light goes out. I expect gravity diminishes at the same rate as light from a distant star gets dimmer.
>this
Sorry didnt get into specifics.
The observable universe is all we know to be fact, whats beyond no one knows. It could be nothing, it could be something entirely different
"The universe may be infinite, but we can only see a finite section of it due to the finite speed of light".
So there could be infinite energy in the universe
Could you observe gravity as a chain of events/effects? Like a pulls b this way, which pulls c this way, which pulls d... And so on, just at least be able to see that there is something beyond what you can directly observe? You could use the furthest thing you can observe and look at how it's effected by what you can't reach to get an idea of what's there?
the universe was only ever explained as virtually infinite. There are however an infinite number of parallel universes.
tl;dr - the universe is not infinite. Just impossible to travel across which in turn makes it infinite.
Is the universe expanding faster than light can travel? Is the ratio of observable to unobservable universe increasing or decreasing?
Do we know?
*MUM
I heard that it is expanding faster than light
But isn't energy relative to matter
Kinetic, potential, (thermal's just kinetic, right?)
Don't they all need matter to affect to actually be energy? Isn't energy just the amount of power in whatever type of force or measure that that an interaction with an object would have on that object?
So without anything for energy/force to be exerted on, there wouldn't be energy because there's no potential, and if energy doesn't change or matter doesn't change, if either is true because I honestly don't know which if either are, doesn't that make the opposite constant as well?
If the universe is expanding matter and energy within the universe must be expanding too. Historically speaking mass/matter, energy/speed of light are not constants, Einstein is wrong about relativity. It's only mostly correct.
But can't the empty space between atoms or whatevertf just be expanding
Matters just getting less dense?
>retards attempt to astrophysics
What in the fuck
>Historically speaking
WHAT IN THE FUCK
that's not a limitation of our number system, retard. That's basic logic. You can break up finite numbers infinitely. Same logic applies to the universe.
I know the universe is infinite because OP's faggotry is infinite and so is the number of times his mom has sucked my juicy shaft
With potential or I think any energy mass is a variable. Mass of zero makes energy zero.
I'm not sure how light works, it is and isn't a particle or some shit
But it has to reflect or be absorbed to convert to thermal and it can't reflect off of or be absorbed into nothing
How does it apply
Like if I keep cutting a piece of paper in half I'll never run out of paper because it'll never run out, just be infinitely miniscule slivers of paper
Because that's just not realistic
There has to be a base unit that you can't split
May not be the atom anymore but
Please at least read an "astrophysics for the layman" book (and thoroughly enough to understand it) before trying to discuss this stuff.
It goes i both directions op, there is an infinitely expanding universe not out of the 'finite' object but into it down to just pure vibration and what may be beyond that!
There isn't a percentage for a limitless number which is the counter argument for your gay retardation. Mathematically, insane numbers vs infinity is basically .000000000000000000000000000001% vs literally 0%
Since you've obviously at least followed your own advice and are clearly more qualified than I
Would you mind telling me why that's wrong or doesn't matter? Just trying to learn a little through discussion, don't really want to drop everything until I can find and "read a book" for thorough understanding of something that will likely never directly affect the way I spend my time
Just curious
ok