>mfw people complaining that metal is a niche hobby genre now and not a mass market thing like it was in the 80s
Do you guys really want metal to be mainstream again? Because back in the day, it led to some pretty horrible things.
I'd rather not have this happen to metal again, do you?
Why are metalheads so cripplingly autistic? Nobody forced anyone to listen to Nitro back in the day.
If it means more lemmings listening to metal then yes, definitely.
I miss the days of huge metal festivals. They've been shit since metal left the mainstream fests in the mid 00's.
Calling Nitro or other Glam bands metal is like calling Sum 41 punk. I get the image and aspects of the music are there, but ultimately they're the corporate, marketed to teens versions.
>implying glam was bad
The real backbone of metal were bands like Megadeth--major label acts that were fairly commercial and had songs with hooks, but still too raw for the radio. Unfortunately, we haven't had bands like that in a decade.
Yes but corporate bands lead to more markets for more underground bands.
And let's face it, when grunge initially broke it was pretty cool to see it in the mainstream. And the impact on society was significant.
Imagine the same with current metal. It would be fucked.
>g****
>why a new general? sage
I thought metal core bands filled that niche.
I think we need something more punk. Lately the closest thing I hear on even the alternative stations are fucking feminist "guuuurrrrl power" punk.
It's horrendous. We need something so provocative that it goes viral.
But nowadays... that means something that shits over political correctness and that's a big no no in 1984 land.
A sad truth. Current metal simply doesn't have the songs required to breach the mainstream without comprising any integrity.
Grunge was painfully normie though. I really can't stress that enough. It was absolutely fucking painful and simply replaced glam but kept the same fundamental fan base.
I always get a kick out of Christgau would always complain how shit-tier metal was...but he reviewed more glam metal albums than he did the "real" stuff.
Alternative rock was mostly lumped into the general "heavy rock" category and all those bands toured with Megadeth, Ozzy, Metallica, Pantera, etc.
I really think megadeth started to decline after rust in peace when they started writing more hook oriented songs on countdown. Everytime metal gets even remotely popular it gets watered because there's a chance at the top charts. These were the worst metal genres(glam, buttrock fed to the public as "metal", numetal, and glam revival aka metalcore)
>Grunge was painfully normie though.
Only after. Initially it was a fucking god send considering what else was on mainstream radio.
Like fucking wham and boy bands.
Grunge was great for initiating people into new ground.
Believe it or not, the late 90's alternative scene was a lot of fun for many people... cringey in retrospect though.
There was a weird crossover period where bands like Skid Row (who are shitloads better than people give them credit for) toured with Pantera and Alice in Chains opened for Clash of the Titans, but that very swiftly changed and they were full normie grade from around 93 onwards.
AiC was credited to opening the door into grunge, they toured with many heavy metal bands.
I can't even listen to Countdown now. Awful album. Just awful.
If by after you mean 1994 at the latest, sure. It blew up waaaaaaay too fast.
Yeah it really just exploded after smells. Went from a gem in mainstream labels to an all out monster that killed itself.
Same happened with Tool and Korn... only Korn just went "fuck it" and ended up becoming the abomination they started.
Now the grunge era was very weird because normally, record labels want upbeat music you can play on the radio. Yet for several years, they made the very strange decision of signing and putting all their resources into promoting all this angsty, suicidal, depressing stuff. It was an unusual time and I don't think the industry would ever let it happen again.
Alice In Chains started as a hair metal band, that's not too surprising
The point where everyone was looking for the next nirvana was when that thing lost it's mojo.
Then nu-metal came in... it was fun in the mid-late 90's... then the bands like Limp Biz ruined it with their cringe.
>There was a weird crossover period where bands like Skid Row (who are shitloads better than people give them credit for) toured with Pantera and Alice in Chains opened for Clash of the Titans
This would be 1989-early 91 which was a very free for all time when alternative, thrash, and glam metal were all competing for the airwaves.
Melvins, Butthole Surfers and fucking Boredoms getting signed to major labels? More likely than you think.
Yeah I heard many grunge acts did that shit.
Mother Love Bone was hell fucking gay.
Ten, Nevermind, Siamese Dream, Jar of Flies, Pablo Honey, that Hole album I can't remember off the top of my head... and all those 2nd tier bands like L7, Bush, Veruca Salt... It was like the best then immediately the worst of times. Still, you can never deny they were all a good entry point for anyone interested in digging deeper.
Also, great to show the effects of heroin on a band.
>I can't even listen to Countdown now. Awful album. Just awful.
It's not nearly as good as TBA and lacks a really iconic song like Enter Sandman, but Metallica were always the most commercial of the Big Four anyway, so that came more naturally to them.
What happened with glam metal was the record industry trying to figure out how to market metal to girls.
More like 91 - 93 at the latest. I don't think any of those bands were quite up to that support level yet or were even signed.
Chicks were throwing out their old boy band records. Guys were throwing out their glam records.
And something changed in society.. it went from clean to sinister.
Soundgarden and AiC were signed up in the late 80's.
I think objectively based on record and ticket sales, Metallica were definitely always the most commercial band. All Megadeth really had over them was a few MTV videos, but that didn't translate to sales.
That was never as issue, user. Girls led that whole era. What went wrong was record companies underestimating the fickle nature of girls attention spans.
I'm old. The guys were listening to Thrash and a handful of the harder glam bands like Motley Crue and Ratt and the girls happily listened to Warrant, Poison and Wham and NKOTB in equal measure.
>The guys were listening to Thrash and a handful of the harder glam bands like Motley Crue and Ratt
Right. Dudes listened to thrash and Guns'N'Roses. Unless they were the little band of edgy alternafags who were into Sonic Youth and the Replacements.
In those days, you go to a record store and rock albums would be categorized as the following:
Rock: This included most of the glam metal, classic rock, and stuff like Van Halen, Aerosmith, and GNR
Metal: Self-explanatory
Alternative: Sonic Youth, Replacements, Pixies, RHCP, Depeche Mode, etc
>Metallica were definitely always the most commercial band
They were a big presence in the rock world ever since RTL came out. In fact, I remember seeing one of those PMRC whinefest books about metal. It was from 1986-ish and Metallica were mentioned in there along with Motley Crue, Ozzy, and whatnot, so you figure they were already quite well known even before One got them on the radio.
It was hilarious seeing them leapfrog acts like Ozzy into stadium headlining territory in what seemed like a blink of an eye. They were surprisingly huge prior to One, and able to command million dollar fees with no radio success. I don't even think the radio played One.
Good times.
>I don't even think the radio played One
This suggests it did.
Perhaps they did. Most likely the short version and even then, heavily edited down.
Mainstream rock in the late 80s was abysmal. Everything was just assembly line MTV pop rock. Hire Desmond Child to write you a hit based on cliches. Even old 70s veterans like Aerosmith and Heart succumbed to this sort of thing. It was like for a couple of years, nobody was able to be honest and make music they actually wanted make, everything had to be engineered for maximum commerciality.
>Desmond Child
The secret to the success of Bon Jovi.
The other huge culprit there was the initial digital studios pumping out hits. Though I still have a nostalgic fondness for that ridiculous Whitesnake snare sound. Ultimately, the millions of dollars led that whole awful era of shitty songwriter hits.
Rock is now "classic rock", like led zep and black sabbath
All those bands are in the glam rock part of the "rock" section.
And metal is still largely the same.
Alt-rock is nothing like it used to be, apart from the obvious - Nirvana, etc.
They totally forget the college rock background, which is now "indie rock".
And swamp rock or whatever was made down under in the 80's is [redacted] for being too naughty :^)
They did that to the Bangles as well. They didn't want to even record Walk Like An Egyptian, but the label forced them to because we gotta have the one surefire radio hit.
U2 are shit, but you can see why they got big, since in the late 80s there wasn't much else in terms of mainstream rock with anything to actually say in their music.
U2 were legit in the 80's up to The Unforgettable Fire.
Bon Jovi always wanted to be ultra-commercial stadium rock from the beginning. Even if you listen to their early albums, they had big shoutalong choruses and whatnot.
Heart didn't want to sell out either, but Capitol made them do it.
Thanks Desmond. I got stuck in the library some years back during a storm and ended up reading the Bon Jovi bio. The epitome of a completely manufactured act for commercial success. He hired the best pro musos and songwriters and leveraged his studio connections perfectly.
Metallica stumbled into a hit single with One by accident just like Black Sabbath did with Paranoid. Except Sabbath ran from it and made sure never to make anything that poppy again. Metallica on the other hand went "Hey...we can make money. Lots of it!"
So many sad stories of that happening to bands. Cherry Pie, The Flame, Cum on Feel the Noize...
James Hetfield used to have a guitar with "Kill Bon Jovi" written on it. I mean, these guys were the summation of everything that went wrong with rock in the late 80s.
The worst part is that everyone else then decided to copy Bon Jovi and also hire professional songwriters and make mindless manufactured pop metal.
I blame touring with The Cult, the success of Dr Feelgood, and the subsequent horror of getting Bob Rock to produce on top of running out of Cliff riffs and melodies for everything that went wrong with Metallica.
the Deathfests tend to have good bands, maybe you have shit taste?
Cum On Feel The Noize was in the early 80s, way earlier, although Quiet Riot didn't want to record it.
Actually, Quiet Riot died out in the late 80s because Kevin DuBrow wouldn't play along with the industry. He openly went around attacking the Bon Jovi kinds of bands as fake rock and sellouts. As a result, they made sure Quiet Riot would never get any publicity or airplay again.
you should listen to old crust punk like Disfear, think motörhead riffs with discharge drums
>on top of running out of Cliff riffs and melodies
And Dave Mustaine riffs. :^)
The point still stands though. Labels forcing acts to record shitty songs for hits.
Trying to think of more examples.
Yes!
>shit, we ran out of Dave riffs on Puppets and every thing we had on the Cliff tapes because Justice. Quick, let's rip off The Cult but palm mute everything!
The Bangles' original sound was kind of retro 60s pop rock, then Columbia got on them and told them it wasn't marketable enough.
By the time you get to Load, they have 1-2 riffs they use on repeat for the entire album.
>Even old 70s veterans like Aerosmith and Heart succumbed to this sort of thing
And Whitesnake.
I understand that they still had some unused Cliff riff tapes as late as the Load sessions.
>Even old 70s veterans like Aerosmith
I don't think Steven Tyler really minded selling out but the other guys hated it. You should see some of their comments on Get A Grip in interviews.
>the success of Dr Feelgood
They hated Motley Crue, but eventually became jealous of their excellent production while Metallica's albums always sounded like shit.
Nobody can claim Bob Rock didn't do a fantastic mixing job on TBA, also it was one of the last major label rock albums to use analog recording.
>Girls led that whole era
Women buy more music than men and are more likely to listen to stuff that can be played on the radio.
I don't think they hated Motley Crue as much as they were insanely jealous of their song writing skills and ability to get ladies. Metallica took ages and a lot of cocaine to get over that massive grudge they had over being a bunch of ugly autists.
Always thought Flemming did a great job producing RTL and Puppets.
>"Hey Nikki Sixx here got any heroin"
why is shout at the devil so repetitive, boring, and slow?
And yet it's a fantastic hard rock album. Stop pretending you don't love it.
It's funny becaue Motley Crue fell victim to the same commercial problem as all the other 80's bands. Compare something like Live Wire or Shout at the Devil to Home Sweet Home, the labels forced them to do the poppy shit for money. Not that they minded, I think.
They still are. James Hetfield was asked once "How come you guys never made any sex-themed songs?" He said "Gee, I dunno. I mean, we were getting it so I guess I never felt that starved for sex that I needed to sing about it."
>that laughable excuse
>yeah we got so much pussy back in the day that we didn't even need to write songs about it that's for poseurs
Motley Crue went more pop rock starting with album three, but they still always had a heavy rock number or two on the non-single tracks.
They did bring themselves back from it with Girls, Girls, Girls and Dr Feelgood though. Theatre of Pain was basically Nikki trying and failing to do some weird, I dunno, circus type thing that really didn't work at all. In a way it was a smart move that stopped them from being pigeon-holed with a tired image.
Who cares? Metal's got something for everyone these days. Just like, stick to your subsub take on the genre and you'll be good.
>motörhead riffs with discharge drums
I like motorhead riffs.
We need more motorhead riffs plus stoner heaviness plus gizzard drums.
Mainstream fests... like Coachella.
Wildside is a good song
That kicks ass actually.
I like screaming, but it won't break the mainstream.. needs to be more just growly melodic vocals.
Lately I've read a few interesting things that allude to Motley being way more contrived than you might expect. Apparently, Nikki's ex wives get well paid and sign gag orders to keep quiet about him. Be fascinating to know what's not being said. It's interesting his uncle was an LA record exec but he plays that off. It's pretty obvious the last 10 - 15 years of their career was a mass cash in. Still, always loved Micks riffs and Tommys swing and feel.
To be fair, they were fucking huge, just not hair metal bimbos tier huge. Still, you imagine they'd have got some decent enough pussy in the early arena days.
Christ, imagine getting stuck with Lars though.
>here's an 8 ball and a backstage pass if you suck off that hideous gremlin
...
Nikki Sixx really always wanted to be Steve Perry or something. If you listen to the first album past Track 1, it's full of goopy ballad numbers like Starry Eyes. SATD was the one album they did which is all rockers and has no ballad crud on it.
Legit love Dee and those early TS albums. That guy is a genuine showman.
You forgot Too Young to Fall in Love.
I think he more wanted to be The Sweet and Bowie, but crossed with New York Dolls and getting mentored by Blackie Lawless.
>Still, always loved Micks riffs
He's a very underrated guitarist and you have to feel bad for him having a lifelong physical disability.
Lyl at that backstage pic of Kirk Hammett naked. That guy is small, man. Really small.
Totally. What a completely shit thing to have to live with.
You mean Lars in that photo with Steve Harris?
Everyone who succumbs to the Nirvana killed spandex cockrock meme also forgets that by 1990, nobody was still wearing Day-Glo costumes and huge wigs. That look was mid-80s, like 1985-86. By 1988, bands had a little bit less bright-looking costumes. In fact, everyone by that point was trying to look like GNR.
>remembering when people like fucking Cher dressed like they were going on a date with Slash.
Motley Crue were always pretty shameless fad riders anyway.
>early 80s
>bandwagon NWOBM
>late 80s
>bandwagon Bon Jovi
>90s
>bandwagon grunge
Mid-80s KISS.
Promotional pic for the 1990 tour.
...
1989-ish. Anyway, you can see how that bright Miami Vice look was not a thing anymore by that point.
Honestly can't think of any examples of them sounding NWoBHM at all.
Requesting hilarious 80's metal fight tales.
>Lars yelling abuse at Motley Crue then running away when challenged
>Slayer trying to fight Poison but not knowing Rikki Rocket is a legit martial arts master
>Danzig getting punched out by one of the Def Leppard guitarists at an airport
>Phil Collen from Def Leppard beating someone else I can't recall (another legit martial arts guy)
Any others?
>Don't know Rikki Rocket by name
>"that's probably their drummer"
>mfw
I really shouldn't have thought he couldn't be their drummer
>Cherry Pie
youtube.com
Poor Jani Lane. He became so despondent that he eventually drank himself to death. You can see in this video even that he has that puffy red alcoholic face. Very sad.
Also his wife (the bimbo in the Cherry Pie video) was just a glorified rock star groupie and she dumped him as soon as their commercial success dwindled.
Christgau and all the other critics in the 80s, they were all in with the alternative/punk scene and took a huge steaming dump on metal.
>actually marrying a groupie solo mother when you're a legit rockstar
Stupid idiot