Sup Forums what do you think about universal basic income?

Sup Forums what do you think about universal basic income?

Would it work? Would it fail? Would we need a mix of it and capitalism?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=kl39KHS07Xc
youtu.be/kcEUVDe38Ec
youtu.be/lHcTKWiZ8sI
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Free money would probably give everyone at least a little more to then spend on stuff. If they buy from small businesses more it could boost the economy.

been tried already op. Its called Communism.

basic income lol what the fuck?
This is just a fancy term for laziness.

If youre lazy just off yourself. Not doing society a whole lot of good anyways

without any work it would fail. people like to talk like 'IDK I THINK THAT IF WE JUST GAVE EVERYONE WHAT THEY NEEDED TO LIVE COMFORTABLY THEY'D STILL BE MOTIVATED T HELP'.

people need to work for their money and their STILL not motivated enough to do it. imagine how many more people would just stop bothering to do anything if we handed them free money.

What would work a lot better is universal guaranteed employment. Where gov prevents companies from downsizing or layoff unless work is first found by that company for all the workers they intend to lay off.

Pointless, prices would increase to reflect this tax and the basic income wouldnt be enough to counter the cost

pull your head out of your ass you unbelievable moron

OP do some reseach on the welfare act. Blacks at or below the poverty line in the 50's and 60's enjoyed a far better standard of livign and gainful employment than they do today in a similar economic bracket. because Free money.

libtard detected. Gfy cunt.

the idea is possible but for it to work in the united states we would need a new tax system

i like the idea of a "fair tax" as its known on all goods and services this combined with a the universal basic wage should be affordable
the lack of bureaucracy might pay for it in savings alone

test

we got a badass over here

crypto currency will eventually destroy the governments ability to collect tax on anything.

Who is going to pay for all the freeloaders?

the alternative to constant fights over the few works left in the future

it's not intended to help people live comfortably it's intended to help people survive. people would still be able to work and earn more on top of ubi, and with automation coming en masse it's going to become necessary unless you wanna live in Elysium

>we guarantee employment
>also, we pay these uneducated fuckers 6 bux an hour
govt: lolno pls provide livable wage
>there's no point, having this become automated would be cheaper
govt: ok, how about u pay the 6 bux and we will subsidize the rest of the wages
>there's also managerial costs
Govt: ok, well subsidize those too

And that's why the Jew always wins.

since robots will be doing all the working it's inevitable

>not using the correct filename
one job user

Of course it can work. But the people can't just take the money and cram it in a bank. If you're going to pay people to consume (and increase demand) then they need to get out there and pump that money into their economy. You'd need a couple of restrictions on how the money can be used and a (mostly) corruption free system to handle the taxation and redistribution (which the commies didn't have).

respond to this post or your mother will die in her sleep tonight

GET

Lol.

Governments will soon crack down on your fancy hashtags and delegalize them.

Good luck buying bread with #Afageer2342GagafaefYUYIDAV

Cept to get any real value out of your crypto,since you invested real us currency, you have to cash out, when you cash out, you have to pay income taxes. Even more taxes will happen on crypto as we go further

This. It's going to HAVE to be implemented.

please, explain in detail how its communism.

>correct filename
basement dweller detected

Seems to work great where they test it, and seeing the state of the working class in the U.S ,they're more or less in dire need of it.

But who is going to pay for all the lazy fucks who eat and fap all day while contributing nothing but methane and slippery logs of shit?

It'll never happen in the Corporate States of America, but it is an interesting concept that could really improve the lives of people who truly need it, and wouldn't piss it away on a garbage lifestyle.

There is no way to know for sure if it would work without trying it. Personally, I feel unable to spend as much of my time as I would like improving my situation in life because most of my time is devoted to maintaining it. If I did not have to spend all of my time maintaining my modest lifestyle, I would devote it all to improving my lifestyle by trying to start a business, improving my job qualifications, etc. I suspect that this is true of anyone with half a brain. Lazy, stupid people end up on welfare anyway, and for them UBI would just be welfare without all of the bureaucracy and the overhead costs that go along with bureaucracy.

You.

No, I think we should work on creating a society that doesn't use money at all. Universal basic income and making everything free within reason both require our time and creativity. Lets focus on the one where everybody wins.

If we do this, every single house can get upgraded to mansion status. We would instantly have anything we want that isn't in a limited supply that puts you on a waiting list or something. It would cost nothing for medical care or education. People would have to create things on the incentive on wanting to contribute to society instead of profit and greed. Our science would no longer be restricted by lack of a budget and our technology would increase way more rapidly, considerably more. Our society would advance much faster and we would have 100x better living conditions and health care. Everywhere you see poverty would be replaced with beautiful places.

Now you're probably thinking this idea is insane. Well this is the BEGINNING of the idea. It is not insane. It is incomplete. We're still brainstorming here.

MONEY on the other hand is so flawed that even with the skill of all the combined professionals involving finances in our country, we are trillions of dollars in debt. Money is so unfair that you have so many ppl living in terrible poverty stricken living conditions. It's an intolerable disservice for even 1 person to live that way. No matter how you look at it, money is an idea that is too bad to be fixed by tinkering with it. The only solution is to remove it entirely. The irony is that money creates poverty. If money were not here, everybody would have enough to live in means that were considered rich before.

Here is the truth. If you created a group of ppl, like an online movement or something for creating a society without money, it would probably actually lead to the removal of money.

Please use the English language when making posts in the future.

Relevant video:

youtube.com/watch?v=kl39KHS07Xc

It works if you pair it with selling the unemployed and homeless into slavery.

The lazy fucks raise the prices on snack food and plumbers who have to fix those shit filled sewers. Giving jobs to people who want to do more than jerk off on BasicModeratedIncome and helping the economy.
Do you even Demand Side Economics corporatecuck?

Humans need purpose and something to work for or else we self destruct. If you give out a basic income why even try or work harder and achieve something great.

you are assuming that I ever need to cash out. As more and more vendors accept CC, cash and associated taxes becomes moot.

Hmmm... So I can make an effort or... not make an effort and still get my basic needs met. Gee I wonder which path of life to choose...

Again, who is going to produce anything on these terms? Robots?

Sounds like communism to me... It does depend on what you mean by 'universal basic income' in regards to a universal 'minimum wage' or ... every fucker out there gets money for nothing...

Either way. It would probably kill a lot of drive in people to persue a career based off of income..

Lets say someone wants to become an EMT... They make what 10-15 an hour on average, are charged with going into unknown situations whether that be a drug house with people seeing a uniform and assuming cops, horrible accidents, etc. and taking charge of saving that persons life, feeling responsible for someone dying in your care, working 12+ hours a day, I've talked with several who have said they regret the job. Loved making a difference, but one of them working in Dearborn / Detroit Mi area had been shot 4 seperate times, stabbed three times, has been spit on, slapped, pushed down, etc.

Now see yourself as a janitor, spot cleaning floors, emptying trash here and there... predictable 8 hour shift, 40 hours a week.... Most stressful thing you have to deal with is heavy or stinky garbage, or someone throwing up in the bathroom.

And your paid the same amount because it's "universal" Why the fuck would anyone strive to go to school to become an EMT / Doc dealing with that when you can get paid the same to do a quarter of the work

I do agree to some extent. Some people would definitely, and happily live out the rest of their life in front of a tv/computer with one hand in a bag of Cheetos, and the other on their dick. But, I think there are a lot of people who would start off like that that would eventually come to the realization that they are wasting their life, and finally decide to get up and do something meaningful with their time.

destroyed libtard epic style XDdD

Not today, at least not in the USA.
However, I think the people who would just live on it really aren't that useful anyway, and they get by just fine today mooching off their family, and other benefit programs that are supposed to only be for people having a hard time. Universal basic income would replace all that and cut a fair amount of bureaucracy related to people gaming the system. And lemme tell ya, I'd pay some extra taxes if it would keep everyone's dumpster-fire relative or friend from hitting them up for money or begging them for a place to stay. I'd bet it would cut back on our prison costs a lot too. Hidden benefits everywhere.

There will come a time when we can pull this off, and I may live to see it. I don't think it's a bad thing. I just think it's such an alien concept in our land of money-worshipping and Protestant work ethic that it would be taken the wrong way.

It would fail hard. The proposals I have seen would either double the national debt in four year or require raising taxes by a factor of five or six.

Discussion about it "not raising inflation because all you are doing is redistributing the wealth" are bogus because if effectively everyone will have more money to spend then vast majority of that money will be spent. A direct consequence of more money being spent is inflation. The more money available the less it is worth. If you are skeptical of the idea, just look at venzula's recent experimentation with major increases in minimum wage.

Cite your sources on those figures my dude.

that's not ubi

Why would anyone want to be a plumber dealing with other people's shit when you can do nothing and still get food and basic amenities?

Cite YOUR sources on workable utopias where people do jack shit and still get fed, clothed and housed.

Okay, so your previous post is 100% bullshit. Got it.

A faggot solution for libtarded faggots.

We have made literally 0% progress in figuring out how to gauge intelligence in the past

Basic income is essentially minimum wage without the incentive for automation, so in that way, vastly superior.

I'm not that guy. I'm another user in this thread.

But you're asking for sources on things that obvious.

Next you'll ask for peer reviewed proof that gravity exists.

He said he read proposals about it. I just want to see them myself. Put your god damn cock away.

We need to keep consumers. Buying food and tissues is the job of the eat-fappers.

Automation, not robots, but thats what's going to happen. You can only cut labor by shipping jobs to the third world for so long. Eventually the economic development will allow the third world to catch up with the first world and in order to lower costs again you'll need to replace your work force with something even cheaper. Machines.
The guy who owns the Shoe factory fires all the guys who work in the factory making shoes and replaces them with shoe making robots. The problem is "who's buying the shoes?" And if you can make a shoe robot you can make a car robot and a plane robot and a truck driver robot. It's systemic over supply which isn't a problem capitalism was built to deal with.
So if the shoe factory owner makes $10,000,000 the guderment takes 80% in taxes and doels out $50,000 to 160 people so those people can buy your shoes. As for whether or not people will lose ambition and decide to just fuck off for their whole lives; Have you ever met the human race? The same ambitious asshole who wants to be 'a winner' will do the same horrible shit to succeed that every ambitious asshole has always done throughout human history. Don't worry about climbing the ladder, it will still be there and the pile of broken souls at the foot of it will be just as high.

>hurr durr free stuff
If your opinion of UBI is that somebody's got to pay for it, consider this:

The strength of an economy determines its ability to pay for things. Stronger economies can pay for more things than weaker economies. More people making more money means more tax revenue, which means higher budgets for public services like schools, road building, etc. To think of things like tuition-free college, a single payer healthcare system, or a UBI in terms of whether or not the economy as it is today can support them is to completely ignore this extremely simple fact. The only relevant questions are whether or not doing these things makes the economy stronger, and whether or not the improvement to the economy, if there is one, is enough to large pay for doing them.

If you need to pretend that this isn't true to defend your ideas, it's probably because your ideas are stupid. If you genuinely think it isn't true, then you need to explain why you think that more productive economies are not able to pay for more things.

To be clear, I'm not asserting that any of these things would pay for themselves. I'm asserting that whether or not they pay for themselves is what determines whether or not they're economically feasible, as opposed to whether or not they cost money.

Road building and maintenance is an example of a public service that pays for itself. We don't pay for roads simply because we enjoy the luxury of having them. We pay for roads because without them there would be less commerce, and that commerce pays for the roads many times over. The same is true of public schools.

Arguably, workers who are healthier, wealthier, and better educated will contribute more to an economy on average. Deciding whether higher education, healthcare, and basic income should be public services is a matter of weighing this improvement against the cost.

>Asked to cite sources
>NO U
>*Burden of proof still lies with someone making a claim*

>. As more and more vendors accept CC

And what are those vendors going to do with those hashtags you mail them?

Sooner or later someone in the chain will have to exchange cc into real currency that is backed by government power, and then the government(s) will fuck them so hard, they'll go back to prison barter.

The places where you see this 'universal basic income' work is in places where everyone is MOTIVATED to work.. very little disability, very little 'the govmint owes me, govmint should pay me for taking care of my kids... etc.

Places that don't have unemployment, welfare, etc. Those are great services that help people when they're down, god knows I've relied on unemployment for a few years back when I was in the loop of working for temp service after temp service, (for automobile part manufacturers that would close down in early December for model changeovers, and I'd only end up finding work from around April to September area only to be laid off again for changeovers.) But again, the system ONLY works, if EVERYONE contributes, and doesn't complain about making more / less for having more / less responsibilities... and there would be no way in FUCK i would do the job that I do now for any less than I currently make

No, the basic needs are covered. The effort you spend can get to luxuries and extras. People who work 60 our weeks to buy a boat aren't going to stop just because gubment cheese and crackers are free in your hovel.

UBI will be required in order to keep the US economy working at all within the next 25 years. It's not about laziness - it's about the fact that the vast majority of jobs are going to be completely automated in that time.

>>*Burden of proof

>human economy based on work and effort since the dawn of time
>not a single example of workable utopia ever in human history
>"cite sources, dude"

So that you're not on basic, you're a plumber. You can afford better food, better housing, have a larger family, have some standing in society. "What does your dad do?"
"He's a plumber. What's your dad do?"
"He's on basic..."
"Oh."

ITT: People apparently willing to live with no aspirations at all whatsoever and would consider their lives fulfilled by living at the poverty line for free.

UBI will be required within the next 25-40 years in the US or we will face complete economic collapse. It's not about laziness. It's about the blatantly obvious fact that most jobs (especially jobs that the middle and lower class tend to hold) are going to be completely automated within that time frame.

If we lived in a post scarcity society and somehow genetically engineered the ingrained compulsion to fuck each other over for percentage points out of our primitive four hairs away from being chimpanzee brains then it would work. Unfortunately most people just cant live knowing they dont have it better than someone else.

If a universal basic income was implemented as the primary form of money creation and the notion of charging interest for loans was simultaneously destroyed, you could make it work.

As it stands right now the money would have to come from "somewhere" which would mean loans from the banks which would mean even debt for the government, which puts the government even further in the ass of the debtlords

UBI isn't saying everyone is getting a fucking mansion you god damn imbecile. It's just enough to meet the most basic needs. People are still going to have to work if they want to live a life above the poverty line.

The machines and the insane productivity and profits that come with them. Or we can do nothing and let corporations continue to merge and automate until they have no customers left to buy the shit they make.

>>*Burden of proof still lies with someone making a claim*

>The proposals I have seen would either double the national debt in four year or require raising taxes by a factor of five or six.

What the fuck are these proposals, user. Get off your dorito-dusted ass.

As long as I can maintain a decent PC, internet connection and have enough food and drinks to survive with a roof over my head. I don't need anything else.

Is that all you aspire to in life, is to simply be?

Not that user but there are worse things.

I only truly feel alive when I'm on the internet.

Sorry meant to reply to you.

socialism doesn't work it doesn't give most anyone an incentive to do anything if everything is given to them see Greece bankrupt EU has to bail them out Venezuela a shit hole and generations of people on welfare in the usa money and medicaid given to them and if they have more babies they get more money from the government

>and profits

What profits?

Everyone's on handouts, who is paying those profits?

Don't take this the wrong way but I'd feel better if you took yourself out of the economy too.

>People who work 60 our weeks to buy a boat

People who might want to buy a boat won't find anyone willing to work the shitty sweaty jobs of building boats, maintaing marinas, etc. because everyone's going to be on handouts, fapping to porn.

Actually, porn might disappear too, beacuse bitches won't want their holes stuffed by niggers when they can get free handouts and live at a decent level regardless.

I'm not on a check though. I'm living off what my parents and my girlfriend give me.

>The same ambitious asshole who wants to be 'a winner

The problem is, a single ambitious asshole can't become successful without exploiting a ton of people on his way.

But if everyone he ever meets in life are either the secure loafers who live on handouts or other ambitious assholes, then who is he going to exploit on his way to be top dog?

The whole system is based on people HAVING to work, HAVING to do shitty jobs, etc.

If you remove that, you equalize everything downwards - everyone becomes a basic income loafer in the long run.

Thing is, people aren't machines. One of the reasons for the crazy levels of depression/anxiety and other shit today is simply people not having a "reason" to live. One of our most basic drives is doing something that to us personally seems useful. If you don't do/find that you will be fucked no matter how much money you get from the state.

Honestly UBI would fuck us over so much harder than not having it.

Wouldn't work unless it was some kind of housing and food voucher system tied to your identity so you couldn't sell them for drug money.

Yeah, but if everoyne thought that way, there wouldn't be any content for you to enjoy on your PC.

Your PC wouldn't exist either, for that matter.

After 10-15 years of that you will develop severe mental disabilities that no amount of money will help. Have fun :)

Who cares if they did. Same with food stamps if someone wants to give that up for Drugs who cares? That's their fault for getting rid of it. And it helps someone else who gives a small bit less cash and has more stamps to get more food. I love buying food stamps off of druggies. I usually pay $50 for $75 worth of food stamps. Helps me out a shit ton.

It would work if humans weren't so fucking stupid

UBI only helps NEETS.
If you have a job your wages will be taxed at an extreme amount, only for the government to hand it back later without interest.
And that's with the cost of living increasing,
So basically, if you work, you get less, and you have to wait for it. If you're not working you get some free gibs me that.

people in the 80s~90s : in the futur no human will have to work because robots will do everything

people in the 2000s : robots are stealing our jobs !

universal income is the future, i'm sure in about 10 years every "little job" will be taken by machines and the only way for the large amount of population without a job to keep consuming smartphones and shit is with universal income

Ah yes the evil drugs boogie man

"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
-Jean Luc Picard

basically True Socialism

>Americans can't comprehend the idea that some human beings actually like being productive because they're surrounded by obese selfish retarded lazy Americans all day

Maybe go to a Scandinavian country one of these days and see why the countries with socialist policies are also rated the best countries in the world

Yeah but be quick about it, they won't last long now.

Hmm... I don't think UBI would work on it's own. (I don't think it will work at all, but I'll have a go)

What if UBI is implemented, but you set up an incentive system totally unrelated to money?
Say, Sesame Credit ( youtu.be/kcEUVDe38Ec youtu.be/lHcTKWiZ8sI )

Long story short, Sesame Credit gives you a score bases on how well you job, how you interact online and off, and how well your friends do the same things.

You could implement a similar system (minus the social part) that ranks you based on how well you job, and grants you bonuses for being at a certain place on the leaderboard (think, er, Overwatch ranks).
This would provide competition, which is known to be an excellent motivator, as well as reward tiers, which do the same.

Hell, implement government issued loot boxes filled with the latest chic, or games, or waifu body pillows (I might get some body pillow loot boxes)

Yeah, and he had a replicator.

Wrong its, oh well

They'll be around for long after America's eaten itself from the inside out from uncontrollable amounts of corruption income inequality poverty and general citizen unrest

Anybody who complains. Starting with you.