Should prisons be privatized?

Should prisons be privatized?

Other urls found in this thread:

volokh.com/2013/01/11/the-effect-of-privatization-on-the-public-and-private-prison-lobbies-part-2/
abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/prisoner-numbers-in-queensland-jails-exceed-bed-capacity/5241588
washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/
bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
reason.org/news/show/pennsylvania-contract-recidivism
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

No.

I want small government, but that's completely retarded.

Are you retarded?Private Prisons are literally hell on earth.

No, because it will encourage the public courts to reduce the average sentence length to lower the costs paid to private prisons.

Not in the US. In fact they're basically daycares.

t. Ex-con

Especially if they're an island.

Kill yourself poorlaysia

>Leader refuses to suck malaysia's dick
>Cut off water cause butthurt
>Still surviving

Hell no.

Think about it, privatised prisons would have to earn income somehow, other than whatever the government gives them.

So, thanks to some shady-ass laws, you get prisoners doing sweatshop work for sweatshop pay.

They earn a tonne of profit, government taxes it (all while keeping their hands clean by not directly causing the sweatshop style prisons) and they all get a cut.

Now, what happens when we get a perfect, crime free society?
They lose money.

So it is in their financial interest to keep locking people up. Leading to stricter laws, more random searches and police "quotas" causing more innocents to suffer.

Granted, it's like this now, however by privatising prisons you also open yourself up to corporations and lobbyists that will provide alot more funding to expand this pseudo-slavery empire.

At least when the government runs the prisons, they at at the mercy of public scrutiny.

Death penalty across the board
Fuck criminals

No. A business should never be in charge of monopolized violence.

>Death penalty for tax evaders and litter bugs
Kek

America has private prisons. They are ok.

obviously

privatized prisons would be way more effective than private one

the same goes with courts, universities, hospitals, schools, kindergartens, army, police etc.

literally everything should be private

Absolutely not.

Your whole continent is a result of convicts you retarded roo.

Hell no
workcamps for the poor
la catedral for the rich

Hei guis I was referring to Australia

I'd have cunts flogged to death for a parking ticket.

Singapore does the same thing but can't finish them off because they are driven to finish themselves off by wanking like the homo perverts you are

K...
Don't talk about our judical system like that,ISA you know...

no

Prisons are the worst thing when it comes to wasting public money.

One high caliber bullet costs approx 50 cent and it's more than enough to rid the world of criminals.

Get rid of them entirely

Nice fallacy.

That is some dumb shit right there. Why would not they do the same if the prisons were government run?

Because there is no profit incentive on either end.

>army
How would this work?

>death penalty for litter bugs
Yes please.

You know that there's a reason why every country doesn't do this right?

A private enterprise's primary motivator and goal, far above all else is to maximize profit. There are many things in our society that should not be structured around that concept. Schools, hospitals, police, military, courts, universities

In the US they already are to some degree. Healthcare, food, prison stores, phone etc. are already in private hands. And ofc the service is bad. Healthcare is bare minimum, people have to pay three bucks for a phone call etc. But then again the people aka niggers who are in prison deserve that. So it's ok.

Nigger what? If prisons are public it would cost the government (who does the sentencing) less money to reduce sentences. The government pays for public prisons. Did your terrible innutritious britbong food cause you to grow up intellectually stunted?

>public courts would try to reduce costs only when dealing with private companies

You sound like you work for the government...

>Should prisons be privatized?

Doesn't make much of a difference.If anyone thinks that, in terms of real world effects, there's any substantial difference between """"""""private""""""""" prisons and directly-government run ones they're delusional, biased idiots that let their generalized hatred and anxiety of all things "private" cloud their judgement and make them impulsively oppose them.

>Things I think are important should be controlled and run by the government

So what about farms and grocery stores dipshit? Food is more of an important need than anything you mentioned.

But prisons don't arrest or sentence people. And having blacks contribute to society at least while doing slave labor in prison is better than have them hangout and do nothing.

Yes. And we would put libertarians there

>implying selling heroin to 5-year-olds should be illegal

>So what about farms and grocery stores dipshit? Food is more of an important need than anything you mentioned.

These people who spout this shit are all communists who will unironically advocate collectivized farming, grocery stores, etc. as soon as the Overton window shifts to the left enough to make that seem "reasonable".

These are the same people do the same thing every time any formerly private enterprise gets hijacked by the government, they ignore all previous history of it working prior to nationalization, proclaim that ONLY government is even capable of doing X service, and wildly make up uneconomic bullshit saying why it would result in a Mad Max-tier level of chaos if (god forbid) private actors were doing it instead.

Building roads and other government-owned infrastructure is outsourced to private contractors and nobody seems to have a problem with it. But whenever it is suggested that it's probably better to outsource the building and management of prisons to private contractors, everyone goes ballistic. Do you care about nigger criminals that much? Let them rot in private prisons.

It's essential services that I'm talking about, not consumer goods necessarily. If the FDA does its job then there's nothing wrong with privately owned markets.

You've taken my view to a ridiculous extreme in order to argue it. Let me know when you can debate like a rational adult.

Fuck no if you privatize something there's an incentive to make profit. Which only leads to more people in prisons.

There was this case with a Judge that was bribed by this private youth prison owner to sentence as many kids as possible.

Also, why can't public prisons make the prisoners do slave labour?

It's fine when private owners run labour camps, but when the government do it, it's not?

>Not in the US. In fact they're basically daycares.
You're an idiot and that's why you were in prison.
The biggest problem with private, for-profit prisons is they make money the more prisoners there are. We also have an extremely corrupt election system in America where we call "bribery" words like "lobbying" and "free speech" so the private prison companies can hand over cash to candidates in order for more prisons to be built with tax payer money and "tough laws" to put more people behind bars longer.

Americans have the most prisoners. Eventually under this system, we'll all spend prison time behind bars just to prop up this new forming economy.

In my country university is all about profit.

Subhumans after communism got raped by capitalism.

>But prisons don't arrest or sentence people.
lol, in America they can pay our government officials to make sure the cops and courts do.

You pay your mercenary army until it becomes too much of a burden for them or you can no longer pay them, then the mercenary army turns around and over throws your government for luls.

for-hire private armies are extremely stupid for defending nations.

Asking a Polack about communism or capitalism is like asking a rape victim on a date.

>implying education is more essential than the food trade

yeah fuck off

>The biggest problem with private, for-profit prisons is they make money the more prisoners there are.

I'm sure there are at least a few like that but from what I've seen the prisons are paid the same amount of money no matter how many prisoners they have.

>so the private prison companies can hand over cash to candidates in order for more prisons to be built with tax payer money and "tough laws" to put more people behind bars longer.

Can you give me any instances of prisons influencing laws like that?

>1 fifty cent bullet
>Killing all the criminals in the world
>Tippy toppy zoz my friendo

no. when there are corporate profits to be made by people being locked up, you better believe there is going to be a lot of people locked up. the US has the highest imprisonment rate it the world for a reason.

For all the shit that private prisons get for supposedly lobbying for "tough on crime" legislation people conveniently ignore how government prison guard unions do it openly.

volokh.com/2013/01/11/the-effect-of-privatization-on-the-public-and-private-prison-lobbies-part-2/

At least with private prisons the state can terminate the contract if necessary. It's a constant risk for the private prison owners so they need to be at the top of their game.

Yep they can cram the cunts in I don't care. In Queensland Australia the cuck Labor government are letting them out Cos there's too many per cell! so what let them just roam about society with no reason to NOT rape murder and steal.They blame the previous Government FOR LOCKING UP TOO MANY CRIMINALS..how fucked is that??: abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/prisoner-numbers-in-queensland-jails-exceed-bed-capacity/5241588

Pic is the cunt who lets them out Bill Byrne.

If we had a tenth of the conditions in our jails as the convicts did I'D BE HAPPY man!

And the biggest problem with government prisons is that they make money regardless of what they do...

Generally, no.

I'd be interested in a "cash for results" privatisation, where the government awards a sum of money proportional to how much the prison exceeds its targets. Targets would be given in metrics like recidivism, quality of care, security, etc. etc.

Basically, use the profit motive but make profit dependent on the results that we want.

The problem is that the profits have to be worthwhile for the businesses involved, so they have to be running costs plus profit. If that's the case, why not just have government run it and only pay the running costs?

>In 2013, Pennsylvania cancelled all of its contracts with private operators of community corrections centers and rebid them on a performance basis, tying vendor compensation to their performance at reducing recidivism rates among the populations they manage. The state corrections agency recently announced an overall 11.3 percent reduction in recidivism across its 42 contracted community corrections centers between July 2014 and June 2015, marking the second consecutive year of decline.
>That same year, Pennsylvania awarded a five-year correctional mental health services contract that was updated to significantly enhance performance expectations, including financial incentives to reduce the number of misconducts for mentally ill offenders, the number of inmates recommitted to prison mental health units, and the number of recommitments to prison residential treatment units. Conversely, the state can impose financial penalties on the contractor if it fails to achieve targeted baseline results for those same metrics.
>The U.K. has piloted similar recidivism-based, pay-for-success contract models for prison operations in recent years.
>A number of pay-for-success (or "social impact bond") contracts have been implemented in Massachusetts, New York State, New York City, the U.K., and elsewhere to provide private-sector sector financing and nonprofit delivery of inmate programming aimed at reducing reoffending among those nearing release from prison.

You're not a "big picture" person I see. Due to the increase of for profit prisons in America the amount of prisoners has, predictably, increased significantly.
>Can you give me any instances of prisons influencing laws like that?
washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/
just because you're narrow minded, and ignorant doesn't mean shit is happening hard and fast.

In our country, if a company has money, they start writing their own laws through "lobbying", which is bribing and should be illegal like it is in the rest of the world.

>implying education and food are the same thing
Education has positive externalities. Food does not. The free market will undersupply education. The free market will not undersupply food.

Welcome to Microeconomics.

>For all the shit that private prisons get for supposedly lobbying for "tough on crime" legislation people conveniently ignore how government prison guard unions do it openly.
crime rates have dropped yet they keep sentencing new criminals for longer, harsher sentences than ever before. They want to keep that "upward trend" for incarceration and they have to do it somehow. Still, it looks good during an election cycle to say "We're being tough on crime".

Further, here's the best indication that something fucked up is going on. The vast majority of people in prison in America are non-violent drug offenders.
bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
fascinating website. Didn't know we had a "Federal Bureau of Prisons".

Only 9% of inmates are held in private prisons. The industry is really not as big as people think it is and as I've quoted here private prisons are making tremendous strides in reducing recidivism . You just can't provide those sort of financial incentives to government prisons.

>And the biggest problem with government prisons is that they make money regardless of what they do...
They don't "make money" the same way your local elementary school "makes money". A government owned/run prison works on an actual budget and if there is less prisoners the better.

The actual statistical trend works opposite of what you're implying.

Yes because the state doesn't make use of the fuckers and is bound by a bunch of bullshitt laws to treat them well.

>"I'm a massive retard please rape my face."
It's not that there are more criminals, it's that the LNP's assfuck laws turned a whole bunch of normal people into criminals, as well as mandatory minimums meaning prisoners who would have been let out are now trapped for 10 more years or so.

It's fucking dumb.

This attitude that somehow criminals are a different species of animal and normal people are never criminals and criminals are never normal people pisses me off to no end. 99% of non-violent offenders shouldn't be in jail full stop. They should be punished in other ways, but jail is a massive waste of money that's only used because it's there and everyone's too lazy to think any harder. Non-drug violent offenders usually don't belong in jail either. Druggies ought to be shot, so they don't need jail.

Why do you blame private prisons for influencing sentences when they only make up 9% of the industry? I've also provided direct evidence of prison unions from government run facilities lobbying for the same shit that you accuse private prisons of doing.

Bullshit there are more criminals your probably one of them!

>Only 9% of inmates are held in private prisons.
You're underestimating the amount of public prisons being run by private companies.

It's "State Capitalism" where they make the state pay for the investment and losses yet they take the profits. It's the worst of capitalism and the worst of socialism.

Like state built highways where the government gets lobbied to hand it over to a private company to collect tolls for profit.

Most are worthless scum. not worthy of rehabilitating.

>Why do you blame private prisons for influencing sentences when they only make up 9% of the industry?
Does your company keep you on Google alerts so you can lie of Sup Forums and tell people "Private prisons aren't the problem! People are the problem!"

How much do you get paid?

What do you have to say about private prisons being more effective at reducing prisoner recidivism when they're given financial incentives?

Drug offenders are still criminals that will never change regardless of the pro drug campaigners efforts to legalize every toxic substance as a recreational pursuit faggot!

People ARE the problem the criminal class has a BIG hold on your leftwing ideology

Also call Public Private Partnerships PPP...you ever invested in one...the private sector almost always lose. Never do business with governments.

Yeah you caught me. Now you can conveniently ignore my arguments.

You type like a 17 year old from Inala. Pick up your game.

I, on the other hand, am a defence lawyer. Believe me - nobody has more experience with criminals than the people that they pay to defend them in court. You're right, most of them are worthless scum. That's not some huge revelation. Most of all people are worthless scum. In your comfy privileged gated-community private-school life you may not have realised this, but you will. Most people are not very intelligent and most people are not very principled. When they see Granny's purse they grab it, not realising the consequences. When they see the unlocked house next door they run in and take shit, not realising the consequences. The only difference between the average criminal and the average person is that one of them got caught.

Jail is incredibly expensive. It's also incredibly risky. It only takes a week locked up prior to a bail hearing to get a truncheon upside the head from an overzealous guard and come out a vegetable, which I can assure you is a VERY expensive lawsuit for the government. It ought to be a last resort, not a "fuck it too hard lock 'em up." If punishment is the goal then you can punish them in other ways - garnish their money, waste their time, ban them from owning a car, or a home, or marriage, or do whatever petty cruel vindictive thing you want to fuck up their lives and tell yourself it's justified and that's fine - so long as it's cheap. But jail costs a FUCKLOAD of money and I'm sure your infantile I-like-to-burn-ants mind can come up with a cheaper way of inflicting equal suffering for less dollars. The only people who belong in jail are violent offenders who are a continuing danger to the community.

The only exception to the above is habitual drug users. They need to be shot dead on a three-strikes basis. I fucking hate druggies. Anyone who says drugs don't cause crime needs to be shot too.

The jails do fuck all to rehabilitate because the Governments keep letting the Crims out for political reason and bowing to leftwing pressure groups.

If I was from Inala Id be on your side faggot OH a fucking defence lawyer probably with legal aid and gay too!.

Privatizing prisons is the best thing.
Why should tax payers pay for the criminals upkeep?

>What do you have to say about private prisons being more effective at reducing prisoner recidivism when they're given financial incentives?
that it's a PR campaign used by people like you to justify private prisons when the larger, overall-trend is severely the opposite.

Hilarious how you talk about pouring more money into a for-profit prison to make them do their supposedly cheaper job.
Portugal disagrees with you.
I'm not left-wing. I don't want to put people in prison and make profit off of them either, like you.

We have a criminal class in America, and they make money of the misery of people. They write our laws for themselves and they buy or government officials.
"Disaster capitalism" is quite profitable for people involved. You can milk an enterprise, pay yourself a shitton and then walk away while the government foots the bill.

Privatize the profits, Socialize the losses. Many people get rich off of fucking over government "partnerships" that way. It usually comes in the form of destroying company benefits and pensions then filing for bankruptcy.
I followed your arguments and refuted them. You have an agenda and don't care about facts. So fuck off.

You are a defence lawyer...You are A CRIMINAL in my opinion. you cunts should be jailed along with your friends/cash cows in Inala.

I didn't say you were from Inala, I said you typed like you were. Apparently your reading is at about the same level. Go back and actually read my entire post - I know you couldn't possibly manage it in under 2 minutes - and then come back with an actual reply.

Or don't.

It's up to you.

>this autistic furious double, even triple-posting
Seriously, how old are you?

Nope. They tried it here and the goverment had to step in due to contraband and a fight club.

Oh your an anarchist..thats as far left as it get.

America also has more incarcerated people than any other nation on earth - This is what happens when you make prisons a business model instead of something controlled by the State.

>that it's a PR campaign used by people like you to justify private prisons when the larger, overall-trend is severely the opposite.

Yeah it's just a PR campaign. It's certainly not something that can be independently verified.

reason.org/news/show/pennsylvania-contract-recidivism

Defence lawyers are the scum of society. They would have to be the epitome of sociopaths everywhere.

Fuck Im glad your here!

Absolutely.

Government prisons are inefficient and expensive.

You can privatize and have the exact same "standards" and do it for 2/3 the price.

This well let us keep people in prison longer who are violent thugs. If we can't just shoot them, this will at least ensure we can lock them up forever.

My preference would be to go back to executing felons in the public square, but since that's not an option, this is the next best thing.

Prisons are wrong. The bible got it right.

Fine, beating or death.

>Yo dawg you can spend 5 years in prison for cucking his wife or get 15 lashes.

Which would you take?

How long you work for the Legal aid board scum bag?

I agree user. Every single person who has ever been charged with a crime was guilty. No innocents have ever been charged with crimes in the entirety of the history of our legal system, dating all the way back to the Star Chamber and the circuit courts.

Think about what you're posting for more than 10 seconds and you wouldn't have to write so many replies, user.

i thought that canadian jail would be comfy because we are leftwing. I was wrong.

Yeah, I don't want fucking for-profit prisons and I'm an Anarchist. Oi Oi!

>reason.org
lol, wow. Fucking Randroid over here.

Simply put: the more you associate with scum the more it sticks to you.Logic and reason will be of little help to you and your profession in the future.

They already are.

you're gunna hate me senpai (drug using degenerate) but I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying

I breached my curfew and went to jail for 3 days and while I was there this dude was talking about how he hopes his murder charge gets reduced to manslaughter. He killed his gf and her friend. I literally dindu nuffin and I'm in a place full of literal murderers, Like c'mon, it's the current year.

You realize that government unions are huge opponents of things like legalizing marijuana because it would mean less people in jail, right? We already have a huge lobbying organization that advocates for more prisoners, and they do it on taxpayer money via mandatory union dues.

It would be folly of you to think all people who, hate crime and think criminals are scum and should be put in jail, live in gated communities and are wealthy or some shit. Nobody likes what the cucks like you have done to their communities

Actually, the more you associate with scum the more you form utter disdain and contempt for them.

Regardless, none of that changes these simple facts:
1. defence lawyers do a valuable and important job
2. people who work with criminals are going to have a better understanding of criminals than people who don't, though not necessarily a more impartial one
3. you still haven't addressed the points i made in the post i directed you to read and reply to

Well, at least it sounds like you're over it now. My advice to you: stop using drugs. Stop drinking too, if you can.

But yeah, it's things like throwing normal people in for extremely minor infractions that's pants-on-head retarded. The government probably paid over 10,000 dollars to keep you locked up for three days when you consider wages for the guards, the cost of building the prison, etc. etc., and for what? Sure, jail is great punishment, but there are cheaper ways of doing that. Outside of punishment the only thing jail is good for is security, and if people don't need to be secured (like somebody doing a 3 day stint for breaking curfew) then it's literally just wasting money.

Meanwhile, every day that you're in jail is another chance for something to go wrong, you to get injured, and the government to be facing down a lawsuit because chances are you shouldn't have been in jail anyway.

It's insanity, but the pervasive attitude of there being 'criminals' and 'normal people' and ne'er the two did meet - as exemplified in this very thread - leads to absolutely fucktarded policy championed by "tough on crime" political elites who have never interacted with actual criminals in their lives.

With the possible exception of when they look in a mirror.