We have no free will

We have no free will
God doesn't exist.
You will not go to hell for your bad deeds.

What are you gonna do now?

Well if we don't have free will I can't tell you what I'm going to do now retard

Good. At least world will remain unpredictable and exciting.

And you are only partialy right. It just means you have no plans at the moment.

the usual...i already knew that

Sure we have free will. We just do fuck all with it.

This is true. But bad deeds will create a hell on earth eventually.

the same thing I was doing before

>create a hell on earth eventually

We're already there.

Going on with my life as usual; you are saying that with lot of years late. I already knew that when I was 18

How about we create a controlled hell (prisons) with bad guys for other bad guys running free to force them to behave?

Any physicist will tell you that we legit do not have free will. We are all bound by the laws of causality and have been since the beginning of time. We have the illusion of free will, but everything that we have ever thought or done or ever will think or do has been determined by series of events that have occured long before we existed.

Doesn't mean it can't get worse

SOON

Lay on him and wait for him to stop breathing.

Wash my hands, baka.

That depends on your definition of "will" though. Sure, you gave the scientific objective perspective, but the question of "free will" is usually associated with concious thoughts, emotions, and decisions. What you choose to eat for lunch isn't necessarily determined by the rotation of the earth or the trajectory of a raindrop in that lens. Two different perspectives that don't seem to mesh. Science vs Religion/Spirituality. This has been one of the driving forces of human thought since we could make fire with sticks. Unless we discover Cthulhu or some shit it's never gonna stop and yelling at your screen on a Chinese basket weaving board accomplishes jack shit. Fuck these threads.

>no free will
>no gods
Choose one user
Either we have free will and no gods
Or gods but no free will

fap to pics of millie bobby brown

This

You fukkin' weeb

Nope. You mistake free will with causality. Which are two very distinct things. Think you need to school more user

>chinese basket weaving board

Oldfag detected

rape someone and kill myself

No it means you can’t have plans because everything you do is predetermined.

Which, by the way, is impossible in a quantum universe.

I am free to hit the gym or not, it depends on my will.

Soon nibiru Will be here

Not Op, but you don't really need to pick one or the other. You could believe in a very general spirituality, but no actual gods, that decide fate; or you could see nature as the driving force and our perception of free will is simply to allow ourselves the psychological satisfaction and evolutionary drive that we require for motivation for existing.

Yeah, it's not influenced by the Earth and Jupiter but it is influenced by a number of factors, e.g. when and what you have eaten before, where you have been born etc. It's still science. Now fuck off.

Causality has nothing to do with free will

Causality is the chain of events that started... well at the beginning of everything. Obviously we are all a product of what has already happened, and confined within those parameters, we can do nothing to change that.

But we are free to do what we please within the situation that we are presented with. There may be consequences obviously, depending on the choices we make, but we are still free to make the choice.

Quit contradicting yourself.

Do good deeds to screw with your shitty psych study

You can have plans. For example if you think "I'm gonna take a shit first and then eat a dinner" it doesn't mean it was an act of free will. You probably realized at some point in your life that taking a shit before eating is better than doing otherwise. Now you are just following that rule. Was a realization an act of free will? No, you were just smart enough to make that conclusion. You had no other choise.

It's spelt casuistry

But how we come about making that choice is determined by our past experiences and external influences, which we had no control over. From the moment you are a fetus in your mum's womb--where she is loading you with nutrients and/or drugs that you don't decide--you have no real choice.

Disavow any both Freud and Niche. Get them out of the schools since it is a religion.

Ok. Let's do an experiment - decide whether you wanna go or not. Then switch decision. Will it be your decision or "someone's else"?

>You probably realized at some point in your life that taking a shit before eating is better than doing otherwise. Now you are just following that rule. Was a realization an act of free will?

Yes, thats exactly what it was

keep scrolling down

Yeah, you can't decide to not do what you did after you've done it! It always happens this way!

>Your fault for measuring me making me act classically.

...

keep on smokin thats what im gonna do

Wtf are you tripping balls about?

I'm trying bro

We can build a machine that checks whether you have changed your mind before "you know".

Ur a good person, user.

I shit after I eat. Seems to work better that way from a cause-and-effect perspective; food in, shit out

If god doesnt exist then free will is naturally a given. Thibk about it like this. Free will is the freedom to choose what you WANT to do. Naturally these are guided by urges you have. Urges that come from your beneath your awareness. However you arent a slave to them. You as a human being have the capacity whther to act on your urges or not. The ability to choose is the definition of free will.

Of course you'll be enviromentally limited but that would be the case in any circumstance.

I dont have a shit routine based around when i eat at all, i shit when i feel like i need to shit.

Could be before, could be after, could be hours in between meals. Its almost like we are free to choose!

Ok faggot. Free will requires having a choice. Can you choose not to realize something?

They already did it. The result was that the decision was made in the brain before you knew it. Just search "free will experiment" on youtube.

Think about it like this: most of your life is instinct and the few conscious decisions you make are guided by factors outside your control.

Hahaha good one. You are a true free spirit.

A realization is not a choice

Irrelevant

Kek
You could also believe we are in the matrix
Doesn't change reality
There are no gods and free will exists
Of course we are all the products of our lives, and our lives are the products of what came before. But nothing is ever predetermined really, else chaos wouldn't exist. Change wouldn't exist and evolution wouldn't exist..

Fuck off, cunt. You know nothing about anything you miserable, worthless piece of shit. You clueless cunt.

But an act of free will is being able to make an uninfluenced choice, right? So realization doesn't prove free will.

Theyre guided by the needs that are required to keep you alive (hunger, thirst, belonging, safety). NOW granted that these are the instincts that rule your thoughts, if you take them away there's not really any reason to exist. You have free will in what stimuli you attend to (whether hunger, a woman, cars or even the birds). The ability to decide what to commit your resources to is free will.

No, free will is being able to make a choice period.

There is no such thing as an uninfluenced choice.

People like you will be cleaning toilets with their tounges when I get to the top.
Now leave my thread.

Write a magic book and make up some shit in it, then get fucking rich and laugh of people 2000 years from now who still won't get that it's just a prank.

Despite my belief that we have no free will, I don't let it affect my life. Reality is very little of our lives, when so much of it is our perception. In the end, we all live our lives as we will, but that's not anyway to argue free will versus fate.

I would also add that chaos is just our idea of chaos as humans. Our lives being destroyed really means nothing to an outside force. It would be akin to watching a kid flood an ant hill with a hose.

And when you think about it: nothing has really changed. We biologically evolve slowly, but that doesn't mean it wasn't planned out to do so.

Ok. You still didn't prove its existence. Actually by saying "there is no such a thing as uninfluenced choice" you proved otherwise ahhahhahaha!

So who here hated Sam Harris before it was cool? I remember thinking he was the bomb debating William Lane Craig

>No free will
>Doesn't let that stop him

We do have free will, most of us just choose not to use it, because if you do it is easy to become lost.

>People like you will be cleaning toilets with their tounges when I get to the top.
>Now leave my thread.
You never get to the top with that mindset. Be good to the people on the way up, you will see them again when you are falling back down.

Im talking about reality, not hypotheticals that dont exist.

There is always a choice.

Even a slave can choose to obey his master or not, there are consequences if he doesnt for sure, but he is still free to choose.

If we did not have free will there would be no choice to make. Simply being able to think for ourselves is all the proof you need.

I'd do whatever the fuck i want whenever the fuck i want wherever the fuck i want. I'd live like there's no tomorrow, each day would be different than the previous. I'd bang hookers and sniff coke off of their booty holes. I'd fuck like a rabbit with no fear of judgment. I'd make money in whichever way i can and spend it on whatever shit i like. I'd join a gang just for giggles. I would read as much as humanly possible and I'd travel as much as i can. Would be one hell of a life. But that's not the case, is it

No... that's stupid.

Why are you so stupid, user?

Well it's not in my psychology to just allow myself to devolve into moral degeneracy due to a belief that what I do is not really in my hands. But it's not really a decision, just a fact of my biology and psychology. It's really difficult to describe when our language is largely designed to describe acts under a free will basis.

You could if you had the means.

Just because you dont possess said means doesnt mean the choice isnt there.

Dont blame the universe for your ineptitude.

Yeah but thinking for yourself is still influenced by how you grew up and what possible choices you have. You have a will to think for yourself but it's not free.

Is there at least one "something" in the universe that is completely free, not influenced by anything else? Maybe the universe is?

Just go and do it. It's part of God's plan anyway, he will forgive you, I promise.

Your mother takes out a second mortgage on the house and gambles it all away.
Jung says she was tempted by a demon. Freud knows demons aren't real, and points out that the chemicals and electricity inside one of her organs were acting in an untoward fashion.

You're being Freudian.

And I am missing how this is a negative in this scenario.

Maximum kek
Very proud of you user

Think about it this way - you can do whatever you want but you will be judged by others for what you do, what choices you make, people will upgrade their perception of your software. If you don't want to keep running away you will do what they like. This is not a degeneracy, it's the next level shit.

You are being reductive in calling your mother losing the house to her gambling addiction an "electrical problem". This is like describing baseball as a stochastic central force problem solving challenge. Kind of true, but stupid and irrelevant.

Yes i don't have the means, but i have chosen a path that is hard to walk but I'm walking down it with faith. I have boundaries and standards

It's another of those unarguable points.
All of our concepts are based on our limited perceptions and thus are surely flawed.
But the whole concept of a predetermined fate is in itself a human construct which we created along side religion, when everything was scary and incomprehensible.
Too understand the lack of fate, it is beat to observe nature, because lacking a developed conscience, nature only evolves and moves by instinct and random events.
If everything was predetermined, why were there species that evolved in a way that disadvantaged them and led to their extinction? Why would fate bring about something that has no purpose, no use, and was destined to disappear and be forgotten?
If there is no chaos and no free will, then everything everywhere in every moment would serve a distinct purpose and function, because causality...
Thus fate doesn't exist and free will does

Most conversations about life are stupid and irrelevant, and yet here we are

Again, no, thats not what free will is.

Youre applying a impossible standard to it. We are all products of causality yes, but so is everything else.

So since everything exists within this "limit" (for lack of a better word), and yet we are still free to be able make choices within that sphere, so thus we have free will.

There is nothing within our comprehension that exists outside of causality, so trying to say that since we arent able to make a choice free from causality means we dont have free will is foolish.

Its a logical fallacy

I would move to a better thread

That's not at all true. You use causality as a law to prove your point, but you also say all human concepts are inherently flawed, which would make causality flawed.

Simply because you or I can't understand where fate is headed doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like I said before, your definition of chaos does not mean it's actually chaos.

And as for the function of our lives: how could we comprehend it? Does a fish in Russia know about Argentina?

It's an interesting philosophical concept.
Which cannot be proven or disproved.
Thus will always be a question of debate
These debates ate actually important
They are the roots of philosophy which in turn became a very important part of the development of society, science and pretty much everything else..

>casuistry

Hehehe
We're running circles here
See

Nature is random, that's what quantum physic says right? It means it can get trapped in a dead end. If something is influenced by something random, does it mean that what is being influenced is being random too? Yeah. Does it mean it is free? No.

ITT: pseudointellectual underages and some 18+ who think they're onto something.

Grow up. Post tits. That's what really matters.

Interesting. Give me a moment to think about it. One additional question. If everything is "limited", does it mean infinity doesn't exist?

You first

You sound like the underage tbh

...

I'm thinking I'll shitpost. Maybe fap or play some vidya.

Theres is no proof that infinity script exists... it's primarily a mathematical concept and then again, it is used to describe functions for which the Y tends towards infinity or minus infinity when closing a given X.

Hummm.. "script" instead of "actually"... >thanks autocorrect

Hmm. Can things be random in a finite space?

As for the previous post - you said we are "free" to make a choice. What is the definition of that word then? I could say "we are relatively free to make a choice". Fucking relativity.

Continue going to church because I love the people there and the fellowship and friendship. Continue trying to live life as a good person and help other people whenever possible I guess. Idk what are you doing OP?

At the micro level, free will may or may not technically exist, but with the complexity of human consciousness, it appears to, which might just be close enough. Good enough for government work, anyway.