The two greatest albums of all time were released on the same day

>The two greatest albums of all time were released on the same day
>May 16, 1966

Woah

Other urls found in this thread:

rollingstone.com/music/news/lost-paperwork-to-blame-for-pet-sounds-meager-sales-numbers-20000310#ixzz3caq83sM6
gloriousnoise.com/2016/when-was-blonde-on-blonde-released-nobody-knows
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

They're both trash though

Aren't they both just shitty pop nonsense?

...

t. poptimist

No really. There's been a debate about BoB, no one is really sure when it was released.

I don't think you understand what that means.

But i do and that's why i don't like derivative fast food tier pop rock garbage like OP albums.

>my opinion on the quality of these albums is...
Not relevant to the definition of poptimism

I implied you're a poptimist in case you didn't get it, given you consider plastic pop music in the same vein as beyonce and justin bieber the "greatest" in any sense of the world.

>I implied you're a poptimist
Where did you do that?
>given you consider plastic pop music in the same vein as beyonce and justin bieber the "greatest" in any sense of the world.
See

this

highway 61 revisited > BoB

Ignoring this shitshow so far

Which is your favorite Sup Forums?
Blonde on Blonde or Pet Sounds?

highway 61 > john wesley harding > self-titled > BoB

>playing dumb and trying to lure me into invalid semantic games
You like garbage that belongs to the same league as one direction. And yes by definition you're pretty much a popitimist for elevating a bunch of teenage-preying corporate moneymakers, except you love to act as if they are any different because you are conditioned to mythologise 60's top 40 chart music, like the clueless pseudohipster you are.

Not the OP, but that's not what poptimism is you fucking moron. If anything you should be calling him a rockist because he is proclaiming AOR as the greatest genre for music. Both of these albums are huge landmarks for AOR, because they are presented as full albums that come full circle wherein individual tracks are considered to be incomplete outside of the entirety of the album. That has NOTHING to do with poptimism.

Read a fucking wikipedia page for Christ's sake.

pet sounds for me
i'm not even sure BoB is in the my top 3 Dylan albums
and pet sounds still blows me away every time
those harmonies tho

>You like garbage
Quote me where I said I like BoB or Pet Sounds
>you are conditioned to mythologise 60's top 40 chart music
That would be a rockist you dullard

anglocentrism my folks! anglocentrism everywhere!!

Highway 61 > Desire > Blood On The Tracks > John Wesley Harding > Blonde On Blonde > Basement Tapes > Bringing It All Back Home > Times They Are a Changin > Oh Mercy > Street Legal > Infidels > Time Out of Mind > Modern Times > Love and Theft > The Tempest > Shot Of Love > Another Side > New Morning > Freewheelin > Slow Train > Together Through Life > Nashville Skyline > Saved > Planet Waves > Self Portrait > Dylan > s/t > Good As I been To You > World Gone Wrong > Empire Burlesque > Knocked Out Loaded Under The Red Sky > Down In The Groove > Christmas In The Heart

Haven't heard the Sinatra albums.

>freewheelin that low

How the fuck

Yep, he's done better. Sorry.
?

this but minus the irony

Blonde on Blonde >>>>>>>> Meme Sounds

>?

?

>AOR is a real genre
>it's rockism because it's album oriented and old
>poptimism is all about singles instead of the album format
>wikipedia will prove you wrong
Fuck off brainwashed retards, clinging to definitions which can be interchangeable. It's still the same in the end of the day and describes the same phenomenon
>but muh album format
completely irrelevant, go be nerdy scum somewhere else instead of calling me retard like that proves anything
unironically this also

I don't think you understand what rockism/poptimism is

Nice damage control though

>Poptimism is a school of thought in popular musical criticism. The major tenets of poptimism are that pop music deserves the same respect as rock music and is as authentic and as worthy of professional critique and interest. Poptimism has been called the prevailing ideology of today's music criticism.

Beach Boys is fucking pop music

how much of this is seriously thought out and how much of it is pulled out your ass?

>desire that high
>BitBH that low

>BitBH
BiaBH sorry

>Beach Boys is fucking pop music
But BoB is rock music

Quote the definition of Rockism and you'll see it fits Pet Sounds as well

All of it is though out.
Yes you usually put his best releases high.
He did better.

>All of it is though out.
this is quite visibly a lie
you probably just copied some random plebs rym chart or something lmao
either that or you only listened to half of the albums once

How are you saying that about Bob Dylan of all people? How are they even comparable? It's not like Bob Dylan hasn't had his fair share of bad albums, but his output from the 60's? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.

>this butthurt
kek

Sure Pet Sounds is a pop album, but it does not fit within the realm of poptimism because of its presentation. It's success is not based off of singles, or the idea that the singles are what matter, or tracks can be standalones without the cohesiveness of an album. Sure it's pop-music, but it stands in contrast to poptimism.

>It's success is not based off of singles
You mean like the hit singles Sloop John B, God Only Knows and Wouldn't It be Nice?

briefly explain some of your choices then

Explain why I'm wrong.

"hit" singles.
You know this album kind of flopped commercially for years right? and that it was only well regarded by musicians and critics for a long time?

Again, just read a wikipedia page or something so you at least have SOME notion of what you're talking about because you clearly don't know anything about either of these albums or the poptimism/rockism debate. you probably thought AOR was a band.

>Quote the definition of Rockism and you'll see it fits Pet Sounds as well
I din't claimed that it wasn't also true to begin with. But all these retardation with implying that popitism can't apply to rock bands as well and thinking that Pop music is an actual standalone definition that somehow excludes Rock bands from being part of it is truly tiring.
As i said it's not about the album vs single format because that is itself not a prerequisite according to the definition.

Pet Sounds

also Blonde is my favorite Dylan album

this whole shitshow about poptism is depressing too

>You know this album kind of flopped commercially for years right?
[citation needed]
> But all these retardation with implying that popitism can't apply to rock bands
Rockists defend these albums, and they apply to the tenants of rockism. What they are (pop or rock) is irrelevant. Do some research before you look like an idiot.

>People actually comparing one of the most influential pop albums of that era with some bum strumming a guitar to 8th Grade Required Assignment-tier poetry

why?

Compared to their previous albums in the US, Pet Sounds achieved dramatically less commercial success; it peaked at No. 10 on the Billboard LP chart, with sales estimated at around 500,000 units.[181] Pet Sounds' initial release was not awarded gold certification by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). In February 2000, Pet Sounds was presented with gold and platinum awards based on sales that could be documented, although Capitol Records estimated it may have sold over two million copies.[182][183]

Brian was "heartsick" that Pet Sounds didn't sell as highly as he expected, and interpreted the response as a rejection to his creative ideals.[19] Some blamed Capitol Records for the album's underwhelming sales. Allegedly, they did not promote the album as heavily as previous releases.[70][184]

Again, just brush up on wikipedia, you brain moron.

that's not how this works buddy
if you're gonna make a claim you gotta back it up

>Rockists defend these albums, and they apply to the tenants of rockism
That's completely irrelevant and based on deceptive rhetoric instead of concrete proof. You also ignored the fact that i didn't denied Pet Sounds being also a tenant of rockism (atleast originally). And never did i implied that the definitions are based solely on genre. You're the one that should do some research instead of blindly parroting wikipedia articles and popular opinion.

>comparing a complex, varied, lyrically rich folk rock masterpiece that influenced literally hundreds of contemporary artists to drug induced christmas music with lyrics about girls and sail boats.

fixed it for you

>Another Side that low
Chimes of Freedom and My Back Pages easily put it above Oh Mercy at least

rollingstone.com/music/news/lost-paperwork-to-blame-for-pet-sounds-meager-sales-numbers-20000310#ixzz3caq83sM6

Learn to research beyond wikipedia you tard
You made the claim I was wrong about this ranking. if you're gonna make a claim you gotta back it up
>based on deceptive rhetoric instead of concrete proof
You mean like
>i don't like derivative fast food tier pop rock garbage like OP albums.
Nice try though.

>two great songs make an album great!
"no"

What's going on itt?

There's an autist going on thinking people who like these albums are poptimists

Then there's another set of anons butthurt about someone's opinion on Dylan

>You mean like
That was my opinion and has nothing to do with a rocking or popitism, still doesn;t make your definitions correct. But nice try, avoiding to adress my other point. In reality i know what you're gonna claim next so don't bother responding with the same non-arguments and constant appeal to authority.

>still doesn;t make your definitions correct
Prove your definitions are correct
>avoiding to adress my other point
You failed to address all of mine. Just following your example
>constant appeal to authority.
Quote me where I did this

I already posted a definition of popitism but you refused to acknowledge it because it clashes with the narrative the critics have pushed for so far. Also by the definition it's pretty clear that whether the music is singles oriented or album oriented is not a prerequisite but you choosed to ignore that too.

guys stop they are just two pretty good albums

shut up fag

>I already posted a definition
It has nothing to do with a rocking or popitism, still doesn;t make your definitions correct

How is the definion not correct then? You can fucking explain why you disagree dude instead of being a fucking dick.

>You can fucking explain why you disagree dude instead of being a fucking dick.
Are you able to do this?

I will if you can.

that's the day my Grandma died in 2014, and she loved both The Beach Boys and Bob Dylan

that doesn't even make fucking sense. it happened in recorded history. there is no debate.

AOR doesn't have anything to do with albums because the A stands for adult not album you fucking nitwit

gloriousnoise.com/2016/when-was-blonde-on-blonde-released-nobody-knows

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock

Tell me why the definition of popitism i posted is incorrest and how does the album oriented - singles oriented dichotomy is valid when in fact it's not a prerequisite in signaling the difference between the two (rockism and popitism) because according to the definition above it isn't.

i made my claim that you were wrong based on a lack of evidence
if you told me the world was a cube and i said you were wrong it would be your place to provide evidence as you're the one who made the initial claim, i merely doubted you on account of a lack of evidence

>i made my claim that you were wrong based on a lack of evidence
You want evidence of an opinion? Are you an idiot?

The definition of rockism is an attachment to the following tenants:
>that good music is somehow associated with artistic credibility
>that good music must have some underlying great meeting and is not disposable
>that good music is somehow attached to the ability to play one's instrument
>that good music can inherently be played live
>that good music is somehow attached specifically to the album format

As you can see, these seemed to have developed from perceived characteristics of late 60s/early 70s rock music, and, if believed would be true, would put post-80s mainstream Top 40 pop music at a disadvantage since:
>it's generally sample/production based
>disposable
>single-oriented
>dance-oriented

To combat this, the antitheses of Rocksim developed in the 80s--specifically around the emergence of Disco--called Poptimism, which generally claims:
>music doesn't need to have artistic credibility or underlying meaning beyond fun/enjoyment
>the end product is what matters, and instrumental ability is irrelevant
>good music doesn't need to be album-oriented.

So as you can see, the reasons why both Blonde On Blond and Pet Sounds are praised, are all stemming from tenants of Rockism, particularly the compositional quality and artistic credibility of of Pet Sounds, the lyrical tenacity and artistic credibility of BoB, and the unifying album cohesiveness of both.

You did God's work, user. Good job. Hopefully we won't be graced by anyone as stupid again.

inb4
>haha, i was only pretending to be retarded.
>le ebin trolle

maybe evidence was the wrong word, but i want you to back up your opinion in some way so that i know you haven't just arbitrarily ordered his albums

(as a sidenote evidence wasn't the wrong word
def: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid
information indicating whether your belief is valid is exactly what i wanted from you
but i digress, i'm not here to argue semantics)

>i know you haven't just arbitrarily ordered his albums
I don't care if you did. If you looked carefully enough, you could find it yourself
>no live albums
>covers albums ranked pretty low

Does it bother you I ranked the whole discography? Do you think it's not possibl;e for someone to love Dylan as much and know his whole discog? Are you b8ing some sort of info out of me for your own benefit?

>i'm not here to argue semantics
No, just my opinion?

I was trying to make a point by implying that the difference between rockism and popitism was not as big and the lines could be blurred or even merged beyond what the popular narrative could suggest. But yeah, calling me stupid will make your position credible despite not understanding where i was getting at...
With that i can agree and accept that i was wrong, my only issue was the album-oriented point which i was being a little pedantic over to the point of denial. I hope you understand the point against narrative i was trying to make and the reason i was sceptic over it's uses.
Thanks you.

Only one thing wrong here; there was never a mention of sail boats in Blonde on Blonde.

obviously by arbitrarily i don't mean randomly, i mean based on limited listens/knowledge of the music
>Does it bother you I ranked the whole discography?
no
>Do you think it's not possibl;e for someone to love Dylan as much and know his whole discog?
not at all
Are you b8ing some sort of info out of me for your own benefit?
what kind of info could i possibly want? if i was trying to find out what his best albums were or something i'd just look at your list

i'm just here to have a discussion/debate about his music, given talking about music is essentially the point of this board

>I hope you understand the point against narrative
No because you didn't seem to understand what the rockist/poptimist dichotomy meant in the first place, and just pulled the word "pop" out of "poptimist" and made up your own distinctions.

I think you wanted to just perpetuate the whole "rock music is just pop!" mindset, which is not relevant and no one cares.

>i mean based on limited listens/knowledge of the music
That logic could also apply to you since you've offered no real rebuttal
>what kind of info could i possibly want? if i was trying to find out what his best albums were or something i'd just look at your list
The list you make the assumption is wrong? Stop
>i'm just here to have a discussion
Well "no u are wrong! show evidence!" is not a great way going about that

Just ask a specific question and I'll try to answer.

Everybody in this thread needs to get stoned.
I want to go home.

>I think you wanted to just perpetuate the whole "rock music is just pop!" mindset, which is not relevant and no one cares
I understood what popitism meant, i just (unsuccessfully) tried to explore the idea that the distinctions between the two were subjective. Of course i was practically wrong but that doesn't mean I was some stupid faggot pushing my own narrative.
Also changing my view and discarting the need to oppose the definition I once thought as misdirecting isn't a "sin". I can admit i was dead wrong for once.

What a coincidence that the true number one came out the same year of the number 2 and 3.

>I can admit i was dead wrong for once.
OK fair enough

>The list you make the assumption is wrong? Stop
exactly, see how retarded you suggestion i was "b8ing some sort of info out of you" was now?
>Well "no u are wrong! show evidence!" is not a great way going about that
asking you to justify a few of your choices is exactly how you start a discussion actually
as i said before, i simply want you to back up some of your opinions in some way at some point

as you clearly don't know what that means i'll spoonfeed it to you
>why do you think highway 61 is his best?
>why do you think christmas is his worst?
>you've rated BoB, BiaBH and freewheelin lower than some people would, is there any particular reason you don't think those albums are as good as they're often credited as being?
>you've rated desire and john wesley harding a bit higher than some people would, is there any particular reason you think those albums are better than they're often credited as being?
>are there any of his albums you strongly feel are always overrated/overlooked?

obviously i know there's a lot there and i'm not expecting you to answer all or even any of those specific questions, that's just an idea of the kind of thing i'm interested in

>I can admit i was dead wrong for once.
desu senpai I think this probably happens way more than once in a while for you.

I like how you said you'll spoonfeed me, but want me to spoonfeed you. You still can't drop the aggressive user image, can you?

Essentially I take a look at
>consistency of song quality over an entire album
>artistic boldness
And I am also uninterested in the covers projects. I do recognize that many consider him an excellent interpreter of American folk, but I am more interested in him as a songwriter. Knowing that might explain some of my choices.

>>why do you think highway 61 is his best?
Most cohesive work, most impressive artistic statement, best performances, most direct and honest without being overthought. Both BIABH and BoB don't occupy those qualifications imo.
>>why do you think christmas is his worst?
I hate Christmas Music
>>you've rated BoB, BiaBH and freewheelin lower than some people would, is there any particular reason you don't think those albums are as good as they're often credited as being?
Because the other albums I listed I think are better. I think both Highway 61 is the crowning achievement of the Electric Trilogy and trump the other two, and Freewheeling is not consistent enough
>>you've rated desire and john wesley harding a bit higher than some people would, is there any particular reason you think those albums are better than they're often credited as being?
I think Desire is one of the most underrated albums in his discog and really is unjustly criticized. It has some very specific musical characteristics that were (imo) very successful and was never repeated by Dylan (Scarlet's violin, the female duet vocals) thus making it a very unique album. Also, it's consistently great (even Joey) and every song seems to have a different geographical setting, in regards to musical aesthetic.

John Wesley Harding, not only features consistently solid songs, is also a strong unifying stance on his own evolution as an artist, going against the expectations of Dylan at the time. It was a bold move.

>desu senpai I think this probably happens way more than once in a while for you.
Actually not, when it comes to real life rarely am I proven wrong or downright illogical but there's something about posting here that turns me into a pants-on-head retarded faggot. Sometimes I'm not even sure myself if I genuinely believe what I'm posting or I just being a contrarian/stubborn piece of shit for the sake of it. It might be pathological given I have caught myself on the act a couple of times.

i've got a question
how old are you?

Why?

>meme on meme
>great, let alone good

when i see people who know large artists' back catalogues as well as you clearly do i'm always interested in how long they must have spent listening to that one artists' music in order to become so familiar
if you don't want to say your age that is completely fine of course, i'm just curious

Please try to grow as a person.

In my thirties.

This is an embarassing thread
Blonde on Blonde, although both are fucking great. There's just nothing like Sad Eyed Lady, Visions of Johanna or Fourth Time Around on Pet Sounds for me

>greatest albums of all time
>two album where all songs sound the same