>The Western Musical society Look at the facial expressions and the INTENSITY in the vocals. The range. The story. An evil witch who attempts to get her daughter to slay her future husband. youtu.be/dpVV9jShEzU
The height of femininity, these two women sing (in the most beautiful way) about a new lover. Lyrics are not needed, this transcends culture and reading the expressions are easy to ascertain what is happening. youtu.be/BLtqZewjwgA
>In asia the octaves are more constricted and their musical scale is more narrow/limited. Less expression on the faces make it difficult to extract the story in other cultures. The cool costumes compensate the constricted emotional expression only so much. youtu.be/wzBDB-u1pRg
Compare that to the more recent pavoritii to get an idea of reference. youtu.be/xCFEk6Y8TmM
>Africa/much of the other world. The focus is more primal, whether it be sexual or intimidation. The stories are meant to act on pure rhythm through chant. Lacking complex movement or abstract thought. youtu.be/xf1fgCe0Aig
>MEANWHILE in europe Beauty that transcends natural movement. Gravity defying leaps into the air that simulates something outside of this world. This, again, requires no words. Yet it simply inspires youtu.be/KaJ060TmR90
It is required for a society to attempt perfection. This is depicted in Western music and it is why the west has dominated the world. I fear we do not cherish are music like we used to and it has devolved to more primal levels rather than facilitate exploration of the imagination. Just look at the most popular music today.
This is not a political thread, it is an examination of the different types of cultural differences in music.
>Africa/much of the other world. The focus is more primal, whether it be sexual or intimidation. The stories are meant to act on pure rhythm through chant. Lacking complex movement or abstract thought. >still thinks Africa is jungle tribes >still thinks Asian classical music is tourist attraction performances >has no idea about African classical, Indian classical or any other classical music >thinks he knows something about European culture >posts Mozart 's Flute >posts Pavarotti as examples of sublime art
You're a complete embarrassment. Now go away and think about it for a while.
Lucas Martin
>Lyrics are not needed, this transcends culture and reading the expressions are easy to ascertain what is happening. Opinion. >The cool costumes compensate the constricted emotional expression only so much. Opinion. >Lacking complex movement or abstract thought. Opinion.
All you said is "My perspective highly colored by the society I live in is superior." and it's very clear you haven't studied ethnic music beyond a cursory level
Isaiah Russell
>has no idea about African classical, Indian classical or any other classical music PLEASE POST SOME
I would love to see this
> thinks Asian classical music is tourist attraction performances This is not about that. It's about the fact it lacks substance.
Gavin Wood
>Opinion. All music is?
>All you said is "My perspective highly colored by the society I live in is superior." and it's very clear you haven't studied ethnic music beyond a cursory level Oh fuckin please. How many societies had orchestras? Which tribe in africa or america?
I posted the asian one and it is not nearly as complex as the western/european one
Bentley Reyes
It's funny when people who try to pull this shit have less than zero understanding of music theory
Guhhh Mozart is good because... notes... very emotional!
Nicholas Sullivan
>How many societies had orchestras? "How many societies had my western idea of a large musical ensemble" Like you're either young and naive, or from Sup Forums and just an idiot.
Then some of those shitty early works like the early symphonies and chamber music. Even the violin concertos are garbage.
Jaxson Fisher
>This is not about that. It's about the fact it lacks substance. What pieces you think lack substance, and I mean musical pieces, not some court stage shows. Seems like you mistake music for theater, and posting Magic Flute just proves this. We don't care about theater. >PLEASE POST SOME No, not going to educate you here, you started it, you answer us first, or get lost.
Mason Adams
This is good desu So is Mozart
Hindustani music is more complicated than Hildegard of Bingen, so what
Easton Murphy
So again, "How many societies had my western idea of a large musical ensemble"
You do realise that people who actually listen to classical music don't think that the theme to The Apprentice, a short section from a ballet score, is some kind of go-to masterpiece lol If you're going to be a racist weirdo at least learn more, you're a pleb bitch atm
Matthew Rogers
Trigger: Racism, White Supremacy
NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF
NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF
NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF
Daniel Evans
>posting one of Prokofiev's worst and cheesiest compositions >not one of the piano concertos or the toccata definitely from Sup Forums
Nolan Rogers
>No, not going to educate you here, you started it, you answer us first, or get lost. translation from faggotry to english: >No I'm not going to make my argument! You lose hahaha! so enlightened
Dylan Taylor
OP's right. It's a hard pill to shallow but most non-western "art" music out there is just a gimmick really. Just background music for tourists to take home. No one really takes it seriously. At most it's a nice refreshing break from western art music but at the end it's really a novelty that shouldn't be take seriously. Our art music has always pushed the limits of music. There's a reason why chinese kids are taught Bach and Mozart and not trad chinese music.
Liam Martinez
It doesn't matter what your little danty ass thinks is 'music'. you think an abo blowing fart sounds through a diggerdoo is more motivating than
>There's a reason why chinese kids are taught Bach and Mozart and not trad chinese music. That's total bullshit, Chinese children are absolutely taught traditional Chinese music and music is still written for traditional instruments.
Musicologists take it pretty fucking seriously lol If you don't get it then you don't get it, maybe read a book about it if that bothers you
Nathaniel Foster
All right we can tell you're b8ing now
Connor Harris
Ok? want a cookie or something?
Logan Nelson
Nope, there is a clear distinction between western music and societies that lack it. And one is IQ and inventions.
Which caused which?
Camden Butler
lol
Austin Smith
>my western idea get out
Charles Garcia
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA JESUS CHRIST REALLY RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES What is this, a Classic.FM playlist You're a fucking embarrassment to Wagner, he was racist as shit but at least he wasn't totally clueless about the culture he worshipped
How does it feel to know that a leftist SJW like me knows 20x more about your precious Western art music than you do lol
Awwwwwwh piss baby got triggered because I reminded him that his cultural perspective has been indoctrinated from birth
Jayden Mitchell
>youtube.com/watch?v=YbTn7Y9XAhA That is literally shit, and that is why no one knows this clown. Keep cherry picking >Wagner, he was racist irrelevant >How does it feel to know that a leftist SJW like me knows 20x more about your precious Western art music than you do lol Doesn't matter if you don't appreciate it. You take it for granted
Did I need to be indoctrinated about my cultural perspective to think the airplane is western invention too?
Sebastian Bell
lame b8
Anthony Moore
go back to your containment thread, weeb
Evan Smith
>no one knows this clown He's generally accepted to be one of the most important composers of the past 100+ years but okay
I do appreciate it, but I also appreciate other things, whereas you appreciate nothing except the same ten pieces that *everyone* heard when they were 4 If you give a shit about this music actually go out and listen to it instead of just clicking on YouTube related videos to troll online If you don't then shut the fuck up youtube.com/watch?v=151JjLvD08c This is more tonally complex than any Mozart btw, is it better?
Kayden Carter
>If I call it b8 I don't have to make an argument!
Jack James
>This is more tonally complex than any Mozart btw, is it better? No. It lacks structure. >He's generally accepted to be one of the most important composers of the past 100+ years but okay HAHAHA ok bud
>It lacks structure. No, it's a structure you're not used to so you're butthurt Imagine if someone used to pop music said that a tone poem like Berlioz's Symphonie fantastique had "no structure" Oh wait you've somehow never heard that insanely famous piece that's been around for centuries
>ok bud Ask literally anybody who has studied Western art music and they'll tell you the same whether they like him or not
Western Art Music is the most harmonically advanced and produced work at the largest scale. But one can only offer his opinion as to whether that makes it "supreme". Unless you have some kind of gnostic access to the platonic form of the Musical Good.
That being said, there are some issues with the way in which you presnent your thesis here. Why are you using musical theater as the high watermark of Western and Asian music? Some have regarded opera, and certain music composed for opera, as a high mark of the Western Tradition but that's definitely up for debate and there are plenty of reasons to say that it's not. Also, why don't you differentiate between the musics of various Asian cultures and the Indian classical tradition which are all completely distinct?
Also, there are some ways in which the Indian Classical tradition surpasses the Western Art Music Tradition. ICM did not develop harmonically the way that WAM did. Instead the tradition is focused on the concepts of raag and taal - raag being a harmonic/melodic/phrasing based framework, and raag being a rhythmic framework - in a semi-improvisational context. ICM developed in terms of complexity of melody and exploration of modal coloration (a simplified way of explaining what raag is about). ICM musicians have way better pitch recognition, audiation, interval recognition (there have been studies on these three), and improvisational skills (obviously, since improvisation was not used in WAM, until weird stuff in the 20th century) than WAM musicians, because these skills are required to play ICM at a high level. As stated in the first paragraph, there are dimensions in which WAM is superior, but in these dimensions ICM is more developed.
Africa is and always was jungle tribes unless you believe in some kind of non-mainstream history. There is no developed long standing tradition of music akin to the WAM tradition in Africa. Post "African classical music" if it actually exists.
Angel Jackson
Why don't you live in a society where african chanting is the musical ideal?
Is it because they have genocidal wars and live in mudhuts?
Lincoln Howard
>Opinion. >All music is? Great, so why are you demanding that your opinions should be taken as universal facts?
Justin Lopez
I wouldn't want to live in a society where Mozart is the musical ideal either, everyone had syphilis and they hadn't invented toilet paper back then
Julian Baker
>Hindustani more complex Melodically yes. Harmonically, and in terms of arrangement, no. Also, Hindustani music is not composed, it's improvisational within a loose framework of form. Only the raag and taal are set in a Hindustani classical performance. So to say that it's "more complex" than a piece of composed music, is a weird claim, since Hindustani classical pieces are not written pieces. Written pieces are considered part of the lower class, more entertainment oriented music in ICM.
Ian Gutierrez
I said I enjoyed African Chanting not that I wanted to live there you fucking spastic
Easton Rogers
>How's this? Use words Better, but it is still to chaotic. It is all over the place. Again, there is a reason this is not popular.
Glad you can appreciate shitty music though.
Kevin Carter
racist piece of shit there has been many african kingdoms many could even rival european ones
Ethan Jenkins
An improvised piece can easily be more complex than a written piece Charlie Parker's improvising is way more complex than any number of written compositions
Jayden Rogers
>everyone had syphilis wrong >they hadn't invented toilet paper and they don't wipe their aids ridden ass with leafs in africa back then AND now?
Leo Nelson
Ok. Post proof. I asked for proof. And I did allow for the possibility that you believe some kind of three-brained Yakub nonsense. But, again, if "African classical music" exists, please post it. I would be interested to hear it.
Jonathan Turner
hmm weird. why not?
The africans enjoy the chanting. I think you would enjoy being around the company of others that have similar taste in music
Robert Gomez
Of course it can. Read again. That's not what I said.
Kayden Hill
No bitch doing pirouettes in the air ever inspired me in any way.
Lmao you are the epitome of a pleb You assume the music that they use to demonstrate what music is to children is the best because you're incapable of growing up and getting into something less immediate and familiar
Is this enjoyable to you? These are all more complex than the average Mozart piece btw, so maybe you're just too backwards to get it Idk youtube.com/watch?v=5b4-rXhKpMM
Gabriel Richardson
It doesn't give you a sense of something outside of this world? It's a movement that is purposeless outside of dancing.
Joshua Turner
>this is the ancient tradition of African Classical Music >uses a guitar This is a modern trio playing African folk instruments (well, two African instruments, and one European instrument) in a modern folk style. There is no African classical music tradition.
Cooper Cruz
>So to say that it's "more complex" than a piece of composed music, is a weird claim, since Hindustani classical pieces are not written pieces
>it is weird to claim that a non-written piece is more complex than a written one It is not weird to claim that a non-written piece is more complex than a written one >That's not what I said
Michael Morgan
My favourite music is 80s goth music, I said I liked african chanting not that it was my fav type of music ever
Lincoln Jones
>Is this enjoyable to you? YES! >These are all more complex than the average Mozart piece btw I know? The point is WESTERN music is more complex. Including the one you just posted.
Did I even post a mozart piece? lmao. Its just a thumbnail stop getting triggered over it.
Lucas Morris
No. So what?
Jacob Brooks
Most famous classical composers were bizarre weirdos or raging maniacs and their fans and patrons were/are bourgeois pricks but I still enjoy classical music
I think you're pretty retarded to make such leaps of logic.
Cooper Robinson
Reminder that "Western music" is a hodge-podge of many cultures that assimilated into European music, including Middle Eastern and East-Asian music, and any notion of truly enlightened Western Music is a naive hope only held by white supremacists.
Anthony Martinez
>There is no African classical music tradition how far back do you need to go back for it to be considered a tradition? a million years?
Isaiah Gutierrez
By the same logic that Western music is better than Eastern music, why isn't Ravel better than Mozart? His music is more complex It's not like you can just stop at East vs. West, if complexity is a good trait then Ravel has it more than Mozart Unless there's a value to music that goes outside complexity or it being "motivating" (???)
>getting triggered lol
Wyatt Cooper
You have poor taste in art
Jordan Hill
In the context you were making the claim - "Hindustani music is more complex than x" - it is a weird claim. Hindustani music is improvisational so any given performance could be more or less complex. On any given occasion an ICM ensemble could choose to play very simple music, and on that day, their music would be less complex than x. They could choose to do the opposite and it would be more complex than x. That's all I mean.
But as I said, ICM is less harmonically complex than WAM, and less complex in terms of arrangement. See my post here: I recognize the complexity of ICM.
Julian Collins
Really? Did native americans/africans/aborignenes influence it too?
Logan Davis
...
Angel Cox
Better yet. What do you think influences more, western music or eastern?
REMINDER: kpop is in western music format ;^)
Evan Rodriguez
Also lol that the only piece I posted that you enjoyed was the one heavily influenced by jazz Muh Western scales
Nathaniel Russell
There is African folk music that goes back as far as you like. The length of time is not the issue. You want to say there is "African classical music" so what I'm asking for proof of is an African musical tradition akin to the WAM tradition or ICM tradition, however old it is - a tradition in which there is a long running development of a theoretical musical framework that is progressively more developed over time - as harmonic theory was developed in the WAM and the concepts of raag and taal were developed in the ICM.
Jonathan Ortiz
I understand now, sorry for the confusion
Christian Martin
Because music is not as subjective as you think. The palate for humans to digest music transcends culture. That is why mozart is 'better'. He is 'better' because his music is more true to the ear. Thus being more popular.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you are listening to some obscure music on youtube that not a lot of people like, its probably because they suck shit
Eli Gray
you seek identity through obscurity
Dylan Hill
>Jazz isn't western now Next you will tell me african americans aren't americans you racist piece of shit
>more true to the ear No, it's simpler, and thus more accessible to the general public than something more complex Same reason One Direction are more popular than Charles Mingus, people love short catchy tunes like Ride of the Valkyries and Dance of the Knights but don't have the attention span or knowledge to sit through a full symphony or jazz performance
Camden Roberts
the best of your "african kingdoms" rivaled the worst of our european ones. And that became less and less of a rivalry around AD, because we actually fucking developed
Hunter Parker
>Eastern what's your definition for eastern?
Tyler Baker
It's American but it comes from the blues which comes from African folk music, it'd be disingenuous to act like it's "Western" the same way that Bach is or whatever
Cooper Mitchell
It's because is more primal. The beats and rhythms can be appreciated by low IQ individuals and societies and high IQ individuals still have a primal bone of rhythm in them. HOWEVER high IQ society music is not attractive to low IQ societies due to lack of musical development over the course of thousands of years.
Jeremiah Adams
The saxophone is african now?
Brayden Lee
>And that became less and less of a rivalry around AD, because we actually fucking developed What are you trying to say? african societies aren't developed? Fuck you and your idea of 'developed'. You're just a racist piece of shit
Cameron Phillips
Asian. India, Indonesia, China/Japan
Jonathan Flores
Okay then yes, they HAD more influence over western until the west blew up into this musical renaissance that gave the world all types of instruments.
Jacob Johnson
>if somebody plays Bach on a guitar it stops being German and becomes Spanish
>more primal If old simple music is more primal than what came later, Mozart is more primal than Stravinsky There's not a dichotomy between liking rhythm and "high IQ society IQ music", a huge amount of the Western art music canon was written as dance music
Cooper Nguyen
>If old simple music is more primal than what came later But thats not what primal is. Primal is something that is something that requires less attention to complete. Mozart and stravinsky music is very time consuming to create. Meanwhile in africa you could be huffing gas a make new music.
>There's not a dichotomy between liking rhythm and "high IQ society IQ music", Yes, there is no issue with high IQ people liking low IQ music, its in their past. HOWEVER low IQ liking high IQ music is something foreign and too complex to comprehend
Camden Scott
>americans
Julian Gutierrez
>Primal is something that is something Primal is something that requires less attention to complete
