Why was its so weak?

Why was its so weak?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Kėdainiai
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatichi
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820
polishgenes.blogspot.com/2015/09/finno-ugric-poles-in-kushniarevich-et.html?m=1
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Poleshits

democracy ruined it

Low centralization due to long distances

>be pole
>get cucked by a small baltic shithole

CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP

It was a coalition of useless european nations. Why are you in any way surprised it too was useless?

because it is a powerhouse in my autism simulator

Find the mistake:
1 2 3 4 5 liberum veto 6 7 8 9

tolerance

Retarded nobles ruining everything by following their own agendas, underdeveloped cities and industry (all the effort goes into agriculture).

Here you go.

Hohols dragged it down

Shouldn't have betrayed us

Poles ruined it.

We or Sweden constantly rigged their democracy by ordering our shills in their "congress" (don't remember proper name) to shout NE MOJNO at every good preposition

>wróbla
that's bałuty friend.
Literally a no-go zone.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Kėdainiai
Lithuanian "nobles" ruined it.

That's what you get for trying to treat pagan baltic animals equally with you.

Ah yes Lithuanian, when something goes wrong they're Lithuanian when claiming their achievements their Polish. Typical Polish double-think.

>Radziwiłł family
>Polish
Stupid baltic subhuman.

PLC was an idiotic policy on Polish part, it only dragged Poland into wars against Eastern animals to defend your overextended pagan shithole.

No one would even hear about Lithuania if it weren't for Poland.

what should Poland have done instead of forming PLC?

>open the floodgates for lithshits
>lithshits finally see the light of civilisation
>start polonizing themselves en masse
>fast forward 400 years
>polonization was terrible!

Putting one of the nobles or a Silesian Piast instead.
Silesian Piast line was still alive and kicking.

Invest everything into science, Invent nukes asap and nuke ourselfs and everything in 6000 km radius.

Calm your tits Pizdinski, besides you're so historically illiterate that you ignore the fact that after 1500's Poles themselves waged wars against Russians, like Bathory.

Democracy was a mistake. All the power was in the hands of nobles and magnates ultimately, which resulted in the king being forced to grant a ridiculous amount of privileges to pass any sort of reform. In addition to that, the stupid Liberum Veto law allowed a single noble to stop any diet, so once again, passing reforms was nearly impossible.
Also it was easy for foreign forces to influence our politics, since we held elections for a king.

If we had a different system, like hereditary monarchy, it most likely wouldn't crumble. I wonder how would the history go if that was the case.

overextended
plus low man power
after mongol conquest rus lands were basically empty
shit political system
shit diplomacy
tldr poles happend

What does it have to do with anything, you stupid baltic monkey?

1500 was alrady after union and Bathory was the kind of both Polish Crown and Lithuanian Dutchy. It was more of a defensive war than conquest, stupid fuck.

Why the fuck am I even talking to you, you won't understand human anyway.
Get Turk'd, balkan nigger.

using turk as derogatory term only proves my point
poles draws shit moves through their entire history
you are dogshit at diplomacy, that is a fact

>Democracy was a mistake.
You mean elective monarchy?

When everyone outside and inside your country hates you you are bound to fail

KIll yourself stupid ruskie neet
Don't bark at me, dog.

>The Polish–Muscovite War or the Polish–Russian War (1605–1618), also known as the Dimitriads, took place in the early 17th century as a sequence of military conflicts and eastward invasions carried out by the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, or the private armies and mercenaries led by the magnates (the Commonwealth aristocracy), when the Russian Tsardom was torn by a series of civil wars, the time most commonly referred to in the Russian history as the "Time of Troubles", sparked by the Russian dynastic crisis and overall internal chaos.


Ah yes defensive wars, Polish revisionism at it's best.

Kingdom of Poland > PLC

that's a fact

Preventive war.
Conflicts with Moscow were already a thing before that, especially when Lithuania dragged Polish Crown into your war.

>implying you're a lith
Das rite.

To be honest, I am kinda glad that Poland was always opressed by their neighbours.
If Poland ever became a real great power, they would have been worse than nazis

Why can't Poles and Lithuanians get along
You've basically been the same people for 500 years

Poles are basically Catholic Russians and just as imperialist as them, though less successful. Poles are genetically closer to Central Russians than Belarusians or Ukrainians are.

I am glad Communists murdered so many Russians.

You should be utilized and then simply removed from the surface. You're all disgusting asiatic animals and I hope one day I will see your demise at the hand of the Chinese.

If you don't understand genetics or autosomal DNA, don't even bother using it as an argument. You're only making a fool out of yourself.

you aint wrong
polonisation of Lithuanians, Ukrainians, belorussians
same shit russians did to their subjects

I understand very will, this is from Genetic heritage of Balto-Slavic countries study. Using Central Russians as a proxy population.

I agree
And I find it really hilarious how much Poles hate Russia, considering they would have done the same to Russia if they have had the power

No, you don't. You already proved that with your idiotic opening statement.

pls stop fighting and discuss history ok. praise jesus

more like WOKING up

they aren't weak they have amazing cavalry units in eu4

This damage control, you haven't proved me any wrong. Just saying you're wrong without any arguments or facts doesn't cut it, poleling.

didn't help them against German tanks though

>squatting poles
rare

You're wrong, because you don't understand how atDNA works, you also don't take population shifts into consideration.

Western Poles (resselted from Kresy aka Eastern territories) were Polonised Ruthenians to being with, so it's natural they cluster with Russians. As for the Polish core population issue, Kiev Polans are clearly visible around Kiev area to this day.

You didn't discover anything new. You simply don't understand anything. Which isn't that suprising, considering average Lith IQ.

>I wonder how would the history go if that was the case
There would be no WWI and thus no WWII. We would live in a totally different world today.

>Germans still believe that happened

that's a ruskie neet, he considers himself "german with russian ancestry"

pic rel, his ancestor

All talk no data.

>Notably, genetic distances remain low after adding Poles to the Belarusians, Ukrainians and Russians from the central-southern regions (DNei = 0.144 for NRY; FST = 0.0006 for autosomal data)

Why are you such a braindead mong and can't read a simple study?

Because you still don't take population shifts into consideration, you brain dead lith imbecile.

That doesn't change the fact that you're still closely related to Russians more so than Belarussians and Ukrainians save for eastern ones.

it's a joke, my American friend

No, only Kresowiak Poles are.

That's not what the study says.

>some shitty chart from god knows where
>study
From my study it says Lithuanians are actually Niggers white-washed by Finns, hence your flag colours.

DAMAGE CONTROL.

>23andme
>West Poles taking tests proves that they cluster with East Slavs
Whoa, fucking magic.

Like I said, you're fucking stupid and can't read for shit.

>Posts pic that shows Poles cluster near Russians

lmao

West Poles(Kresowiaks from former East territory) do cluster with Russians, because their origin is in fact Eastern Slavic. What don't you understand?

I bet you're gonna go into haplogroup argument next.
>Look RUssians are R1a and so are the POLES :DDDDDDDDDD WE DA SAME NAO
Too bad you don't understand how it works either. But let me help you:
If a Ruskie with haplogroup R1a goes to Africa and rapes a Nigger whore, their son will have R1a as well, does that make him a fucking Russian or white in any sense of the word? Huns were Q, which was Asiatic in origin, but by the time they hit Europe, they already white-washed themselves from Mongol-look.

Autosomal DNA and Admixtures is where it's at, not some haploautism gore for teenagers with identity problems.

This thread is perfect proof that pooland fucks up everything it touches.

The Lithuanians speak the closest language we have to the original protoindoeuropean 'aryan
'tongue.

They kept alive the ancient aryan religion for 6000 years, even into the 1500s. They even btfo the teutonic knights, and survive a fucking crusade against them by german fucks who were cucked into a foreign religion by rome.


And then they join with fucking cucked catholic poland and it all goes to shit. Just like this thread did, as soon as poland showed up.

The lingua franca of the european union shouls be lithuanian.

too many land
not enough poles

>lecturing me on haplogroups

Nigga you fucking retarded and your fan fiction theories fall flat, the reason you cluster close with Russians because there likely was a migration in medieval times from West Slavic lands to Russian ones or something that we don't know. For example Novgordian language shows West Slavic traces or the Vyatichi tribe show traces of C/European marker M458 which weren't atypical in Russian lands.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatichi


As I said my point still stands Poles are basically Catholic Russians or vice versa however you like it, you're the same shit.

I am sorry we opressed your people, friend

What does it have to do with anything I've said though?
First you sperg out about some part of Poles clustering with Russians then you jump on the Kiev Polans argument.

Just because some group with M458 marker migrated there doesn't make entire Russian population close to Polish one.

But keep grasping the straws.

On the other hand Liths have the same R1a mutation as Russians and other East Slavic populations, which is ironic, considering your resentment for the Russians.

Is this self-hatred?

I didn't mention Kiev Polans at all stop moving goalposts retard.

>Just because some group with M458 marker migrated there doesn't make entire Russian population close to Polish one.


>Just because some group with M458 marker migrated there doesn't make entire Russian population close to Polish one.

Not entire, just Central and Southern Russians, Northern Russians are as distant as you can get.

And you're argument doesn't really work that you're saying those resettled Poles were just Ruthenians or w/e. How come they cluster more closely to Central Russians then the fucking core Ruthenian populations like Belarussians or Ukrainians themselves? Are those Western Poles some sort of uber East Slavs that are more East Slavic then the East slavs themselves?

>lithuanian "geneticists"
lmoa

What a shocker.

>I didn't mention Kiev Polans at all stop moving goalposts retard.
But they do matter when you mention M458 marker in Russia, stupid Lith.
>Not entire, just Central and Southern Russians
23andme only uses short amount of samples they've collected.

>And you're argument doesn't really work that you're saying those resettled Poles were just Ruthenians or w/e. How come they cluster more closely to Central Russians then the fucking core Ruthenian populations like Belarussians or Ukrainians themselves? Are those Western Poles some sort of uber East Slavs that are more East Slavic then the East slavs themselves?
Ruthenian is a term for all East Slavs in Poland and Polish history.

Like I said, keep grasping. M458 isn't even common in Russia, just some left-overs. And Z280 is only common in the west of Poland to obvious reasons. Ressetlements from places like: Wilno, Belarus, Galicia.

So you don't have anything on me here, Lith. Keep trying though.

That was not from 23andme you mong trash.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820

poles are annoying as fuck

Not actually my people. Just a proponent of Europeans finding common ground in their shared heritage.

And dont worry too much, everyone was fighting everone back then. We didnt know any better.

But now we do know better, and know we are all branches of the same tree. Indo-europeans shouldnt fight. The differences between us are minimal, and the shared culture and values is so much.

Learning lithuanian really makes learning any other IE language a lot easier, including even persian and indian languages. And it is easy for any indoeuropean to learn too- it uses a latin script, and all the daughter families have kept something of the parent . It is the closest we have to PIE, and I am occasionally overwhelmed by how close the world came to losing it. I'd urge you to look into some of the videos online of qt lithuanian grills teaching you to speak their tongue.

Oh no, portion of the people that used to live in the same place at Dniepr and had close historical ties later on are close to each other :(

You tried to pass it off as they're the same, you stupid animal. That's my only problem.

Zitto animale.

Total lack of centralization and unruly, short-sighted, selfish nobles.

I'm Lithuanian as well, but KYS, please. You'll add to the count and help us take back our rightful place from Greenland.

Nobles weren't really an issue, it was mostly Magnateria behind the most fucked up shit.

Also, Magnateria became a thing because of Deluge and how many Nobles lost their estates, they wanted to regain their old position so they sold themselves to foreign powers.

It was simply a bad spot in Europe for this kind of political experiment.

We do get along. It's just faggots like on both sides who go at each-other's throats over something that happened almost 100 years ago and was resolved in our favor.

How were magnates different from the nobles?

Actually, disregard that. I suck cocks.
Nobles were lazy niggers that just wanted to make their bellies bigger. They set the country 300 years behind niggers. But they were still somewhat patriotic.

Magnateria were of course Nobles, but they had their own agenda behind every move. They didn't care about the state, only their families.

It's not okay when Nobles have their own armies that are close to the number of people PLC send to war with Russia. Like what the fuck. Jarema "Hammer on the Cossacks" Wiśniowiecki had around 3k of his own soliders. It can't end well. And it didn't.

Why did this happen in the PLC and not in other countries?

In school they told us that the whole nobles' rights thing came from Poland (which is why Lithuanian nobles were initially so supportive of the union), could you tell me more about the rise of nobles in Poland, specifically, pre-1387?

>Why did this happen in the PLC and not in other countries?
West Euros massacred their nobility every time they got uppity. They were also more into Absolutism and the serfdom was a lot harsher there. No one played in stupid ideas like: equality, religious freedoms etc etc.
>could you tell me more about the rise of nobles in Poland, specifically, pre-1387?
They gained significant power at the death of the last Piast(from direct line) Casimir the Great.

>Casimir was facetiously named "the Peasants' King". He introduced the codes of law of Greater and Lesser Poland as an attempt to end the overwhelming superiority of the nobility. During his reign all three major classes — the nobility, priesthood, and bourgeoisie — were more or less counterbalanced, allowing Casimir to strengthen his monarchic position. He was known for siding with the weak when the law did not protect them from nobles and clergymen. He reportedly even supported a peasant whose house had been demolished by his own mistress, after she had ordered it to be pulled down because it disturbed her enjoyment of the beautiful landscape

His death made a huge gap that was quickly filled by the "underappreciated" Nobles. And besides Piasts were already looking at Lithuania and other East Pagan states as the way to expand their political power.

stop the hate guys we are BFF now with Lithuania don't cry about some shit that happened 100+ years ago

Liberum Veto.

So much butthurt ITT, what's with old worlders and crying over shit nobody has cared about for the last 100+ years?

>Lithuania conquers Ruthenia from the Mongols
>Poland takes it from them and adds it to their own shitty crown

>life and history are my paradox map simulators :)

>Genetic heritage of Balto-Slavic countries study
Isn't it that one russian "study" in which they used "Poles" from Estonia as a representative of the Polish nation?
Top kek, of course it is.
polishgenes.blogspot.com/2015/09/finno-ugric-poles-in-kushniarevich-et.html?m=1

Ok, glad we have this cleared up. Now, FYI baltshits are much closer to mongoloid finno-ugrics and russians than Poles will ever be.

>Fine-scale population genetic analyses like this should only be done with lots of samples from the right places. Self-reported Poles from Estonia, and perhaps also Russia, who clearly don't resemble Poles from Poland aren't good enough. Estonian Biocentre scientists do a lot of useful work, but in this particular instance they were rather sloppy in labeling these Estonian Poles as simply Polish.
lel

>considering they would have done the same
Explain why the prussian fief was left under german rule then? If we really were so keen on polonising shit do you think it would have been so hard to turn prussia into poland? Lithuanian nobles had a weak identity to begin with all they needed was interaction with any other culture to switch in a instant.

Poles+liberum veto

Mfw reading this thread

Sorbs are close to East Slavs too

Because it was democratic

geography

SOPA

This thread is a pretty good explanation of why PLC fell apart

Can someone edit this so only Poland is in it?