Why did the kicks have to be synchronized? Was that explained and I just missed it?

Why did the kicks have to be synchronized? Was that explained and I just missed it?

They need to be bigger the deepest you are, but some of them involve explosions in thee deeper levels, explosions that will kill the inceptionist if they don't wake up to up one level before they fall to their deaths or are crushed by debris.

You should have been on this board when this came out. Holee fuck.

I don't think that answers my question. Apparently, kicks just don't work if there isn't a kick on the deeper level, which explains why they weren't all awakened when the van first hit the bridge, or when they tumbled.

If they're awakened as soon as an explosion hits on a level, it wouldn't kill them if it wasn't necessary to have a kick on a higher level.

I guess the logic is to make sure that a kick doesn't wake them up when they don't want it, but I don't think they ever said that.

Also, when was it established that the fourth level would be limbo? Did the sedative work not only for three, but four levels? Is three the limit before you start going into a limbo?

No movie made me want a take a piss more than this movie.

All that fucking water.

kek

Also, without everybody already out of those levels, how did he get a kick in levels three and two?

So he was in the dream from the part where he tried to trest the spinner on the bathroom sink and it fell off right?

What?

No? Otherwise, he would have realized he was in a dream.

A "kick" is actually the person dying on level below. If you don't wake up the person in the level above, exactly at the time they die on the level below, they slip into limbo.

With the way that time fuckery works, I was under the assumption that all his time in the last level was practically seconds in the level before, and milliseconds before that, so he still got the kicks, the reason that he took so long to get out of the car is a mystery to me

He didn't check again after that point until the end of the movie where it wavers, and since it falls off the sink he never actually sees that it's stable

This is incorrect

>A "kick" is actually the person dying on level below.
That's never established. They say a "kick" is "that feeling of falling, you get the jolts, you awaken snaps you out of the dream."

Otherwise, they didn't need anything so elaborate on the second level as using explosive and an elevator shaft, but just needed to kill them.

This scene is just implying that he just wanted to make sure that he was awake. I'm sure if he was in doubt of it, he would have done it again.

There was no gravity on that level, so he had to create a sensation of dropping using the accelerated elevator. The 2nd consequence of that was also exploding the the elevator, killing its occupants in sync with them waking up from dropping off the bridge in the level above.

And if they only needed to kill them, explosive wold have done the job. Why are you arguing this? The film already explicitly defined a "kick" as being something else than merely killing them. Otherwise, if Saito was killed on the first level, he would have just woken up, which Cobb explained would not happen.

Obviously, but they never showed him doing it, so I'm working off the theory that he was dreaming the whole time

Why? What does that add to the story? What would that actually explain?

Its because of the superdrugs they used that lasted 10 hours.

There was a part where one guy's bleeding and they think hes just gonna wake up, but another guy told them if they died in the dream they might end up in limbo.

I worked on set, as a camera assistant, and there wouldnt be a single day that passed without Cristopher Nolan and Leonardo DiCaprio arguing about the inner workings of this made up scenarios and fictional situations and the "science" behind them.
Both would get angry at Miss Page (she made us call her that way) everytime she started complaining about how they kept rambling about pointless stuff and demanded the movie need more female on female action. Meanwhile JG Lewitt would kep hitting on her and asking how was high school going, to wich she replied with an uninterested gaze.
The only person who really seemed like a normal person was Watanabe, except for the 5 5 galons of maple syrup he demanded every 3 days be sent to his room.

I still don't see why the kicks would have to be synchronized. That only explains why the kicks had to be major. Otherwise, how did Cobb and Saito wake up?

Also, when they're first explaining kicks, it sounds like it has to be on a level above them for it to work, but they leave the fourth level through a kick by jumping out of a building. Can kicks also bring you out of a dream by working on the same level?

Because if there's a kick on an upper level before a lower level people would come out of it and machines would stop working, but their minds would still stay in the dream which means that they would be in limbo in their heads.

THE
END

/thread

That kinda makes sense, but doesn't explain why the kicks just can't be sequential starting form the deepest level.

They can be, but they don't have any fucking time, retard!

They are.

The use of synchronizing is confusing, but it just means they have to wake up from a lower dream before the guy above them wakes them up.

They don't actually have to be at the same second.

I don't think they ever established that it needed to be synchronized because they had little time, only because Saito was dying, which should have been a none issue once he did die. They had ten hours, meaning a minimum of 120 hours, (even though they said brain function would be twenty times normal), and they only had to speed it up because Saito was dying, even though it seemed like it was the plan from the beginning.

If you aren't going to accept and answer which is correct then don't ask questions.

Whoa this is a blue board, no need to be so rude.

>They don't actually have to be at the same second.
When Arthur says, "If it's too soon, [referring to the kick on the second level] we won't be pulled out," doesn't that mean a kick on one level has to happen at the same time as a kick on the upper levels? If the plan was only to have three levels, if it was too early, wouldn't that pull them out right before the hit the bridge.

...

It's because they are in such deep sleep, their inner ear is more sedated vs normal dream. A normal kick won't wake the initial dreamer up. So they have to combine multiple kicks in order to make the final one more powerful. Enough to overcome the deep sedative effects.

I still don't see the problem with waking up maybe a few minutes before the next kick above.

What's really odd is how they apparently need to be kicked inside the dream and kicked in an upper level simultaneously.

Either way I think the answer will almost always be "because of the stronger drugs they used".

slight kek

The answer you gave is actually wrong, or at least there's a more consistent answer. Is right that is has to be merely sequential, not simultaneous, as that wouldn't have saved that much time, and there was nothing that suggested they used that plan merely because Saito was dying. The synchronization was required so those in a deeper level would know when to kick those around him, so the music played by the driver in level one would inform Arthur that he needed to kick those around him.

The question becomes what kicked them in reality, and if one wasn't necessary there, why was it necessary in dream levels? Also, how did Saito and Cobb get kicked back up when everybody had already awakened in the first level?

No, that doesn't make sense because Fischer was awakened with a defibrillator see for the explanation.

You FUCKING IDIOT, if the lower levels kick before the upper ones that automatically makes it sequential.

Fucking retards.

>Fischer was awakened with a defibrillator
Actually, disregard this. Fischer and Ariadne were awakened when they jumped from the building in the fourth level, basically disregard what was established up until that time.

I feel like there should be a warning around the middle of the movie so people know the "science" is about to become inconsistent as fuck and shouldn't bother trying to decipher any new pieces of information.

When did I imply otherwise?

There is a huge window 4 levels deep. Seconds turn to hours down there. There is some leeway for timing. Plus I don't think they had a kick on the flight.

You said my answer was wrong, you fucking whorish cum-guzzler.

You said it had to be synchronized because of their limited amount of time, and while that may be part of it, it actually had to do with making sure those on a deeper level would know how much time they had before they were going to be kicked, which the music would indicate.

Relax, bro. Just take a breath. You're typing on an internet forum.

Also, if you said this, , you're completely wrong because there was an initial kick on the first level when Yusuf hit the bridge, but it didn't work because some of them were still sleeping in level two. But I think that introduces another plot hole.

Fuck my gay ass you're actually right !

I'm aware of that, but it was established that a kick one level wakes up people on a level. I.e., the kick on level two woke up people woken up on level three, and jumping out on level three while you're awake wouldn't wake you up on level two, but kill you, unless you were sleeping on level three. So why did jumping out on level four wake them up in level three?

>wait who's dream are we going into, again? please explain it to my character because by doing that you're explaining it to the audience. because despite weeks of preparation, in the middle of the heist, i suddenly forgot crucial details of our plain. oh ok thanks joseph gordon levitt

what did she mean by this?

Wait, why when Yusuf initially hit the bridge in level one, it didn't wake up Arthur if he was awake?

I think that point, the plans had changed, so it was okay for some explaining to happen. But when she asks about the explosives, that seems like something that should have explained before to her. But so many movies have scenes where something is explained to a character in the middle of an operation which should not be necessary that it's okay to give the movie a pass on this end.

Look honestly I'm starting to forget some details,

but I think I'm starting to understand the logic here.

They never explained the part about how they needed to be kicked from inside their dream level at the same time as when the guy above them kicks their sleeping body.
At least not until they reach the snow dream and finally elaborate a little on it.

Starting with Limbo, Ariadne and Fischer jump off the building, and Cobb and Saito shoot themselves.

In the the snow dream the explosions and avalanche are used to kick them and Eames.

Hotel, the elevator kicks them and Arthur.

And finally with all those kicks, they all get waken up by the van hitting the water.

Basically I was wrong, the kicks had to be at the same time, but only because they wouldn't have to do extra kicks.

If Arthur woke them up too early, they'd still have to get kicked again to wake up during Yusuf's kick.

The plane is reality and doesn't require a kick, only the guy in the dream must experience the falling sensation.

If I remember correctly the sedative they use is timed to wear off at the end of the song. If you kick yourself before then your consciousness flies back up into a body which can't wake up and becomes trapped in dream space, putting you in a permanent coma. So the synchronization is required because body and mind must be synchronized to function together (like the Matrix).

If they don't use the sedative they risk being woken up by any number of inconveniences incurred by security on the level above.

The key problem is that all sedatives used in the dreams must obey the parent sedative in reality (the plane) and so all must be timed to it because if the sedative has worn off and they're still on the lowest level, any one of the bodies above can be killed or woken up which would break the chain and doom the dude to live out eternity in dream space. You must exit in the order you came in.

It's not explained how a killing yourself of jumping off something would wake you up in an upper level, when before a kick had to be in a level to wake you up on that level. I.e., a kick in level three would wake you up from level three, but then they change the rules, so kicking yourself in level four wakes you up in level three.

>Ariadne and Fischer jump off the building,
Ariadne throws Fischer off, then she throws herself off, and then all the kicks happen, and I assume Leo and Saito shot themselves after all this happened. That certainly what it seemed like was happening.

>If Arthur woke them up too early, they'd still have to get kicked again to wake up during Yusuf's kick.
That doesn't explain why Arthur wasn't woken up during the initial kick when Yusuf ran into the side of the bridge.

tl;dr essential rules:
>falling = waking up
>dying = waking up
>vertigo in the dream wakes you up, not vertigo in reality
>everybody only has one consciousness
>sedatives cannot be arbitrary, they must obey the real one
>sedatives must be used to prevent waking up mid mission
>if a level between you and reality is disrupted you are fucked
>if you wake up while any of your bodies is sedated you are fucked
>the longer you spend dreaming the more likely you are to be killed by security

>If you kick yourself before then your consciousness flies back up into a body which can't wake up and becomes trapped in dream space, putting you in a permanent coma.
They established that if you died with this sedative, you would be in a coma.

>So the synchronization is required because body and mind must be synchronized to function together (like the Matrix).
I concluded the synchronization existed so someone on a deeper level would know by what time they were going to be kicked, not that they had to be kicked at the same time.

>The key problem is that all sedatives used in the dreams must obey the parent sedative in reality (the plane) and so all must be timed to it because if the sedative has worn off and they're still on the lowest level, any one of the bodies above can be killed or woken up which would break the chain and doom the dude to live out eternity in dream space.
I don't think any of this is established, and they only say dying with this sedative would result in a coma.

Actually, here they say that it has to be synchronized, "The trick is to synchronize a kick that can penetrate all three levels," but not why a kick needs to be synchronized at all.

>dying = waking up
Of course, they established that dying would result in going into limbo.

>>sedatives cannot be arbitrary, they must obey the real one
If that were the case, why were they all awake in the first level, Saito and Cobb excepted?

>>if you wake up while any of your bodies is sedated you are fucked
Why is that an issue? Isn't that the point of the sedative?

Leo and Saito killed themselves in limbo at the same the explosion in the snow dream kicks their bodies.

And with Arthur, what I meant was even though he was awake, he also had to be kicked inside of his own dream (elevator) at the same time as his sleeping body in the van was being kicked by the water.

The way I see it, when a dreamer's sleeping body fumbles around or falls, their dream shakes around to simulate the feeling of falling into the dreamer's dream body in order to wake them up.

The only real plothole from this is how Arthur managed to avoid the feeling of falling when the whole hotel was spinning around him.

Why didn't Leonardo just tell Alfred to take the kids and bring to Europe?

>Leo and Saito killed themselves in limbo at the same the explosion in the snow dream kicks their bodies
If you look at the movie, Cobb is clearly still asleep in level one while the others are still asleep. They actually just left him in the sinking van, which seems pretty stupid.

> he also had to be kicked inside of his own dream (elevator) at the same time as his sleeping body in the van was being kicked by the water.
Was that ever established? That makes some sense, but then they made kicks originally seems like they just had to be done on the same level in which you were sleeping. That still doesn't explain why they were able to kicked from the fourth level by jumping off the building.

>The way I see it, when a dreamer's sleeping body fumbles around or falls, their dream shakes around to simulate the feeling of falling into the dreamer's dream body in order to wake them up.
Okay, but I don't think they ever established that you would go into a coma if you were kicked from a dream when in that dream, you were dreaming.

>Arthur managed to avoid the feeling of falling when the whole hotel was spinning around him.
I think you mean how nobody asleep in the hotel avoided the feeling of falling when they felt that feeling from the first level?

I guess somehow, everything else they did was easier and more feasible than that. I don't think they explained why this was the case.

the kids were part of cobb's limbo

>Saito and Cobb excepted
They died before the kick (when the sedative wore off), so their minds could only go to limbo.

>I don't think they ever established that you would go into a coma
If you wake up (dying or falling) while the immediate body above you is sedated, you cannot wake up and the mind goes to limbo instead. In reality this is the same thing as a coma, because your real body will be asleep for as long as you're in limbo, and the forgetfulness (from the cafe scene) gets extreme at that level.

Well I don't know to say about Cobb and Saito then.

>That still doesn't explain why they were able to kicked from the fourth level by jumping off the building.
They had to get the feeling of falling while their bodies where being kicked by the explosions.

>I think you mean how nobody asleep in the hotel avoided the feeling of falling when they felt that feeling from the first level?

there's obviously a difference between the falling they experience while asleep and while dreaming

So why does the ending show Cobb still in the van? This is the description from Wikipedia:

> While Cobb remains in Limbo to search for Saito, the other team members ride the synchronized kicks back to reality. Cobb eventually finds an aged Saito in Limbo and reminds him of their agreement. The dreamers all awaken on the plane and Saito makes a phone call.

This, of course, implies Cobb was still in Limbo when they rode the kick.

>If you wake up (dying or falling) while the immediate body above you is sedated, you cannot wake up and the mind goes to limbo instead.
I don't think they ever established that. They said if you die because you are so heavily sedated, you will go into limbo, but nothing about waking up while sedated.

>They had to get the feeling of falling while their bodies where being kicked by the explosions.
But Fischer's body was wakened from the fourth level, (or in the third level) just by being thrown off the building. Ariadne was wakened right before she got the jolt from the explosions.

>there's obviously a difference between the falling they experience while asleep and while dreaming
There was no gravity in the second level because they were in free fall in the first one, correct? Shouldn't that lack of gravity have affected the third level as well?

Being so heavily sedated would send them straight to limbo because their consciousness has nowhere to go when they die.

The same can be interpreted if somehow their bodies woke up while in a dream in a dream.

So why didn't they did when Yusuf crashed into the side of the bridge?

*why did they not die

Who fucking knows man?

This is some basic logic that Nolan decided didn't belong in the movie.

The interpol was looking for him.

The further down from base reality you are, the less of an affect the real world has on the dream. It's like shouting through progressively thicker panes of glass. That's why the kicks had to be synced in the first place. Violently spinning and falling off a bridge barely made people float one dream down. The dream after that (coupled with the time dilation) probably had little effect at that point. Maybe they felt a bit queasy.

But I was asking why the second level wasn't affecting the third, as they were clearly in free fall or tipping because of the first level.