I'm hearing (and have been hearing for a few years now) the phrases "superhero fatigue" and "saturation point" being thrown around. What evidence is there for such a phenomenon?
Here are the number of films based on comic-books and/or featuring a superhero from each year since 1989:
I'll grant that there have been some outliers in 2005, 2008 and 2016 (and an outlier in the other direction in 2001) but other than that it seems like since 1989's Batman we've just always had superhero films, and generally in the same numbers as we're getting now. I'm also seeing it blamed heavily on 2008's Iron Man, but that can hardly be held responsible for the 9-superhero-film years of 2005 and 2008, surely. There is obviously an increase in superhero films from 1989 to 2016 (a 60% increase), but in 1989 there were 203 released films, and in 2016 there were 1650 - a 713% increase. So are there really grounds to say we're reaching a "saturation point", as it were?
Discuss.
Mason Flores
*farts loudly*
Logan King
the disney bubble will burst once again if they continue with the same plot and quippy characters. for me Civil War was the final straw, its not about making a decent film its about making 2 hours to fill for the next installment of capeshit. If I want that I'll start watching saturday morning cartoons
Dominic Myers
I don't think saturation matters as long as the audiences like it.
That being said i do think capeshit already peaked and the movies after have been average at best
Alexander Carter
>the disney bubble will burst I mean yeah, that's another term. "bubble". Like "saturation point" or "superhero fatigue". What evidence is there for being a "bubble" that's going to burst?
And does "bubble" only apply to Disney superhero films? I mean, there have only been seven of those ever, and their reception seems to fluctuate as much as any other caste of film.
Andrew Wood
Man 9/11 really fucked us up
Jeremiah Allen
>And does "bubble" only apply to Disney superhero films? yes. At least the Warner Bros and Fox ones differ in plot, themes and characters (regardless how crap they can be). X-men films will always be frequent because its so easy to throw in victim/outsider theme
Jaxon Campbell
>2016 >Deadpool beats Justice Leage #0 and Avengers #2.5 This year was strange
Brayden Rivera
Superhero movies before Iron Man had a sense of distinction to them. Now they're all the same. The same quip-riddled videogames with the same scripts BUT LOOK WE CHANGED POWERS THIS TIME.
I think that's why people complain. Because the genre is so homogenous now. And much of it is to be blamed on Marvel who has turned it into an assembly-line production.
Andrew Cruz
Far more to it than just numbers and percentages.
Out of all those 1650 movies, how many were "blockbusters" and marketed immensely on a global scale?
How many of the super hero movies of the later era is of high-profile characters compared to previous movies?
The only Super hero movies I knew of in my younger days were Batman and Superman. Hulk was a TV-series and that was about it, in my area. Compare it to today and we have a wide range of hero movies, especially large budget ones that get marketed beyond reason.
Gabriel Wright
Is that image carefully crafted 4D bait?
Christopher King
Its just Barbies for men Stop telling yourself comics can be art and you'll live a happier life
Adrian Taylor
not just marvel, but its disney in general. they buy star wars and now they're making a star wars film every year now. Further on that, Disney have completely changed since buying IPs, before then they would let a director make his own film like Pirates of the Carribean, now its a boardroom making the decisions and yesmen as directors
Grayson Richardson
I understand that this is your opinion, but by using the term "bubble" you seem to be implying that soon will come a time where audiences have had enough of Disney superhero films, and I simply do not see any evidence for this.
IMDb audience reception: >2012 The Avengers >2014 Guardians of the Galaxy >2004 The Incredibles >2016 Captain America: Civil War >2016 Doctor Strange >2014 Captain America: The Winter Soldier >2015 Avengers: Age of Ultron >2015 Ant-Man >2013 Iron Man Three >2013 Thor: The Dark World
RottenTomatoes critical reception: >2004 The Incredibles >2012 The Avengers >2014 Guardians of the Galaxy >2016 Doctor Strange >2016 Captain America: Civil War >2014 Captain America: The Winter Soldier >2015 Ant-Man >2015 Avengers: Age of Ultron >2013 Iron Man Three >2013 Thor: The Dark World
Box Office Gross: >2012 The Avengers >2015 Avengers: Age of Ultron >2013 Iron Man Three >2016 Captain America: Civil War >2014 Guardians of the Galaxy >2014 Captain America: The Winter Soldier >2013 Thor: The Dark World >2004 The Incredibles >2015 Ant-Man >2016 Doctor Strange (Still in theatres)
Measuring it in any of these three ways (critics, audiences, box-office) fails to demonstrate some "bubble" nearing bursting point. Also, I apologise. There have been 10 Disney-distributed superhero films, not 7, as I previously said.
Ryan Carter
>What evidence is there for such a phenomenon? Pretty much none. Cowboy movies dominated the box office for over three decades.
Michael Ward
This is fair, but many superhero films are also not marketed as blockbusters and were still included in my list. Super, for example. Zoom. Sky High.
I could make a similar list that only included Marvel/DC films with a minimum budget, but that'd hardly be fair as budgets have increased drastically, even outside of inflation.
Adrian Gutierrez
>If I want that I'll start watching saturday morning cartoons You essentially already are.
Zachary Reed
>2016: 8 Wait, really?
Eli Turner
Star wars spin off will dilute the Super hero formula. Keep in mind superhero movie from Disney are a by-product to sell merchandise, video games and cartoons, target audience is teenage boys. Disney was clear when purchasing marvel.
Jonathan Fisher
hah, i know the chick who drew the dr strange fanart, funny seeing her shit on here.
Jason Peterson
Fads and bubbles always exist, they're a constant market force. Something becomes insanely popular, others race to copy said popular creation, people become tired and move onto the next new, popular thing and whatever was once popular will now be ignored except for when it finds some 'revival' or people start making films 'inspired by' whatever the popular thing was 20 years from now to prey on nostalgia.
Superhero films will be replaced, it is inevitable. The debate is when it will happen.
Cooper Ramirez
>I'm also seeing it blamed heavily on 2008's Iron Man
who the fuck is saying that? It was kicked off in 2000 with X-Men
Brayden White
Yeah, X-Men, Spider-Man and Batman Begins were all already a thing by the time Iron Man was made.
Evan Hall
Rotten Tomatoes doesn't represent critics. It represents shitty bloggers that can be made by corporations with ease.
Justin Peterson
Xmen and Batman did both have a different plot. The marvel cookie cutter frame could easily be blamed on Spiderman though.
Levi Long
But X-Men rip-offs didn't really happen that often. Meanwhile every Marvel origin story just follows the Iron Man template. Doctor Strange is basically just Iron Man with magic instead. It's lazy and safe. Iron Man was decent. But man it's been cancer on this medium.
Jaxson Carter
>every Marvel origin story Explain to me the similarities between Hulk and Captain America's origins to that of Iron Man. Or Black Panther. Or any of the heroes who isn't Strange.
Liam Gonzalez
OP didn't ask about the Marvel template he asked about the saturation point, and stated that it started with Iron Man which is wrong.
Brandon Long
why Xmen then? why not Blade, or Batman Returns, or Superman 2? Face it, once disney/marvel started it has become an exponential conveyor belt
Wyatt Jenkins
The Incredible Hulk is a perfect example of this. Just compare 2001 Hulk to The Incredible Hulk. One is an ambitious take on the Hulk legend, the other is a generic origin story that doesn't dare step outside its safe zone.
Daniel Smith
>exponential Don't use words you don't know the meaning of.
Andrew Lee
>ambitious take on the Hulk legend Is this some new form of shitposting? Holy shit man.
Kayden Peterson
how is it wrong, you dope? each year the number of capeshit films is increasing. If you want to take it literally go be a complete autist and moan that I said conveyor belt as well
Dylan Morris
What is the Marvel / Iron Man template?
Mason Ramirez
>someone provide a summary of the films plot so I can nitpick and claim some parts of it are not 100% correct
Jason Gutierrez
i don't understand why you bothered trying to demonstrate this by way of mathematical data.
the common consensus is that the Tim Burton batman movie featuring Jack Nicholson popularized the genre but began to die off with the sequels.
in the two thousands we saw a return to capeshit with the Xmen trilogy as well as Raimi's spiderman, along the way we also got a few standalones like daredevil, electra, fantastic four and the Hulk. looking back on them now i can't help but find them having more soul then the current paradigm of pumpemoutinayear superhero movies of today, even the shit ones like Daredevil have based Micheal Clark Duncun deliciously hamming up his role. if a large black guy were to be cast as kingpin today it would be incredibly obnoxious and condescending to the audiance, making sure we understand YES EVERYBODY WE HIRED A BLACK ACTOR INCASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW.
then Iron Man came out.
in a vacuum the Iron Man movie is quite good. but its successors seem to trust too much on being reviewed as parts of a whole rather then individual movies and thats where all these super hero movies fall apart.
Anthony Jackson
If you don't recognize Ang Lee's Hulk being objectively better than the soulless safe modern version, then you're pleb certified.
Adrian Cruz
There's nothing wrong with your use of the word conveyor belt, as there is an idiom here. Exponential is not idiomatic, and therefore your use of it is wrong. WRONG! >each year the number of capeshit films is increasing But that's not what OP is showing, it's clearly fluctuating from year to year. The numbers at the end are bigger than at the beginning, but the numbers at the middle are smaller than at the beginning.
Grayson Wright
I just want to use it to get rich
Kevin Garcia
>capeshit before Marvel cancer >fun, varied, distinctly apart in tone and characters
>capeshit after Marvel cancer >Iron Man script with changed superpowers and added quips for more FUN
Carson Wright
Please explain to me the parallels between Iron Man and Captain America: The First Avenger.
Kayden Stewart
because X-Men was the first modern comic book movie, the rest were campy schlocky comic book movies.
Not only that but all other comic book movies other than Superman and Batman were public domain like The Phantom, unless you count Spawn, which I don't.
Blake James
So why didn't the Mignola Cinematic Universe take off? I could watch Hellboy and B.P.R.D. movies for the next decades, but no.
Liam Perez
>capeshit before Marvel >nobody cares, movies flop and are forgotten
>capeshit after Marvel >billions are being made by everyone in the game
Julian Allen
I'm not superhero fatigued because I don't go to see DC or Fox capeshit.
Gabriel Thomas
>>capeshit before Marvel >>nobody cares The Dark Knight made a billion dollars and was a world-wide phenomenon. It was also pretty good.
Tyler Carter
Iron Man came out before Dark Knight did.
Zachary Phillips
After watching Doctor Strange, I don't feel the fatigue anymore. I'll probably be there when they reach Phase Four.
Cant say the same about DCEU.
Luis Gonzalez
DCEU doesn't have "phases", does it?
Carson Bell
>2001
Best year for movies
Gabriel Russell
1. Deadpool 2. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 3. Captain America: Civil War 4. X-Men: Apocalypse 5. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows 6. Suicide Squad 7. Max Steel 8. Doctor Strange
Jayden Kelly
I'm seeing it blamed very often on 2008's Iron Man. Even if you'd like to blame it on 2000's X-Men, though, that doesn't explain the 35 films that were released in the ten years prior.
Christopher Gutierrez
>each year the number of capeshit films is increasing Did you actually bother looking at the figures I gave? Last year we had the same number of capeshit films as in 1989.
Zachary Brown
>in the two thousands we saw a return to capeshit But we didn't. Capeshit never left.
Nathan Walker
of those 35 films only Superman, Batman and Spawn enjoyed any sort of success.
X-Men started the modern comic book movie genre.
Noah Sanchez
>tfw geniunely liked BvS >tfw DC goes full Marvel because they think everyone wants quips from their capeshit Just bury the entire genre.
Luis Davis
>only Superman, Batman and Spawn enjoyed any sort of success. That's not even close to being accurate.
Adrian Perry
care to refute it with evidence?
Tyler Sanchez
Can you support your original claim with evidence?
1998 The Mask of Zorro, $95mil budget, $250mil gross Blade, $40mil budget, $130mil gross
So that's 8 further films.
Austin Gray
Besides TMMT, those movies were pretty good. Man capeshit held a much higher standard before Marvel cancer.
Aaron Edwards
>Gambit >2016
heh
Kayden Young
this list seems extremely incomplete
James Cooper
To clarify, those are the theatrical releases only.
Josiah Jenkins
Since when is Turtles Cape? Since when is Max steel Comics? Why is there gambit in OPs pic? Why does OP still suck cock on a daily basis?
Ian Ross
>Since when is Turtles Cape? Since always. They're superheroes and originally from comic books.
>Since when is Max steel Comics? Since 1997.
>Why is there gambit in OPs pic? Originally, Gambit's film was to be released this year. It's an old picture.
>Why does OP still suck cock on a daily basis? I just can't fucking stop.
Aaron Lewis
The shared universes they create form ongoing sagas now. People will watch Thor 3, Spiderman: Homecoming, GoG and Antman and The Wasp as the next Avengers instalments for instance. Like the movies or not, what Fiege has orchestrated is genius. The bounty of source material to draw from ie: Dark Reign, Sentry- even Avengers vs X-Men when they eventually resort to it- pretty much guarantees longevity for at least the next generation to come.
Liam Hill
I think DC will be the cancer to the hustle Marvel perfected.
Aiden Wright
dropped you hat, mate.
Tyler Moore
It's a hustle and DC are ruining it for everybody.
Andrew Stewart
>Max Steel I have the faintest recollection that this was something when I was a kid. >TMNT Honestly forgot this existed.
Lucas Davis
Lel marvel movies are never saturated brah
Marvel number one
Benjamin Ramirez
Max steel isn't based on comic books, it's just a superhero movie.
Bentley Rivera
I'm not so sure about seeing Homecoming. Much as I like Spider-Man, Sony can't get their shit together and the cast is looking a little too multicultural for its own good.
Benjamin Bennett
>films based on comic-books and/or featuring a superhero Also, he's in comic books, and the film is based on their storyline.
Parker Morales
It's an accurate representation of the cross-section of kids at a Queens high school so it mirrors life and not the Aryan wonderland fantasy world of the source material.
Grayson Cooper
If they are smart Marvel should end it (or rest it rather, le franchises never die) after Avengers 4.
Carter Anderson
>Besides TMMT
Alexander Howard
>It's an accurate representation of the cross-section of kids at a Queens high school So its social commentary is blaming Obama on lack of immigration controls? cool
Jose Moore
See... that's like saying Raimi's Spiderman should end as a trilogy, (which it did). Or the Alien franchise should end as a trilogy (with Ripley's death). Pure insanity. Why waste all that you've built with a reboot? Continuing the saga makes so much sense, least from a financial standpoint.
Aaron Morgan
thats like saying a band should just continue doing the same music each album.
Matthew Anderson
Does X-Men count as a "superhero" movie? Almost every character in that series is basically an anti-hero.
I hate superhero movies but love X-Men. Nothing about it feels like a superhero movie.
Brandon Richardson
>Aryan wonderland fantasy world But there were black kids in Peters' school, it's just that the characters in his "social" circle weren't. And Flash Thompson wasn't this tiny faggot who was physically smaller than him.
Michael Rodriguez
it falls in that genre but theres no do-gooder. They all have their own interests and issues why theyre involved in all the bollocks
Benjamin Cooper
You're dumb.
Landon Edwards
That will be the end of the Saga though, everything has been building up to Avengers 4, after that they'll have to start a new overall plot-line. And keep in mind that in reality Avengers 4 is actually MCU 22.
And where exactly did I say reboot it?
Josiah Thompson
>Nothing about it feels like a superhero movie You what mate?
Evan Bell
I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but Sup Forums can't actually discuss evidence-based theories. Just post a big guy thread.
Sebastian Garcia
The point they're tryin to make is: race doesn't matter. Who gives a fuckin fuck what genes Flash Thompson was born with, it's not like he's real, nor could he control it if he were.
William Taylor
>Flash Thompson, the jock bully, is now a skinny little guy >the actor was in likelihood cast for the sake of diversity because he is nothing like Flash It's a problem, my lad.
Kayden Sanchez
Not really. Different form of profiteering.
Ian Sanders
>user makes a point about them casting a tiny faggot to play the big jock bully character. >You reply that the point they're tryin to make is: race doesn't matter.
Its essentially not Flash Thompson, whatever fucking genes he has.
Landon Phillips
It will eventually lead to a reboot if it did end, but it won't. They'll do alternate universes or even visiting Stark and Cap's souls (when they die in MCU) now that Doctor Strange has shown that's a possibility. They'll be de-aged with CGI.
Tyler Adams
What part of the word 'rest' do you not understand?
Mason Cox
But you're not using your imaginations. You're trapped in a cliche mindset, and if he were the archetypical bully you'd complain that he was a trope. Think outside the box because it's all been done before. You want Chad flash, watch Raimi's Spiderman, he exists on film already.
Benjamin Wood
What part of the concept of "won't happen" don't you understand? I'm exploring the possibilities, don't mind me. Just being over-analytical.
Ayden Price
>you'd complain that he was a trope No I wouldn't. This little shitskin will never be Agent Venom, and no amount of "dude cyberbullying, it's so topical" will change that.
Connor Green
So... You're stuck in the past where bullies look like Biff Tannen. Anything else ruins immersion and is grounds for a boycott. Might be time to rethink your options.
Easton Cook
I know what I like and I'm sticking with the Flash Ditko drew.
Gavin Gomez
What part of the word 'should' don't you understand?
Its the fucking character mate. That's what he's like. If they'd cast the kid as Harry Osborn I could see it working, but this character is almost certainly going to be Flash in name only.
> Anything else ruins immersion and grounds for a boycott huh?