Atonal """"""""""music"""""""""" is not music

Atonal """"""""""music"""""""""" is not music.

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If you're referring to Schoenberg/12 tone, it most certainly is music.


youtube.com/watch?v=Har_7-S3Cgc

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But a good amount of music is atonal.

""""""""""music"""""""""" is not music

Schoenberg was just as bad an artist as he was a composer. He couldn't carry a tune to save his life.

fuck off

youtube.com/watch?v=z7io8UqcQjg

It's a shame the heart attack didn't kill him, we would have been spared the 'Modern Classical' garbage that ended the time of real classical music.

sorry you're 12 years old and retarded

Go ahead and define "music."

>sound that can be defined in musical terms is not music
Yeah, fuck off mate

Sounds like someone is stuck and frustrated with their composition homework.

I agree there is atonal music, but in what way do you mean a good amount of music is atonal. Atonal means there is no distinct tonal center, or none at all. I might have said what you mean but I'm just curious what you meant by that.

Sounds deliberately arranged in sequence so as to produce an affect, wherein sound is the deliberate intention and not a secondary effect of some other activity.

Couldn't you just simplify it as

Organizing noise for the intention of giving a specific feeling or effect.

So like a doorbell, or a fire alarm?

those would fit the other definition too

Someone this pleb? On my board?

I couldn't believe it either yet here he is

what if the definition of music is really blurry and situational and it's pointless to bother with a specific definition

In theory, if you know what your doing, you can make music with anything. While some things are very gimmicky, in the hands of someone who knows what their doing can pull MacGyver level shit and make something out of nothing.

>mfw someone calls TMR atonal

I mean I get what your saying, and depending on your field of music it doesn't matter if you think one or the other is music. But silence is as important to a composition as the pitches. I get what your saying though

It is though and very much on purpose

I don't think any definition is quite true, but that certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't bother trying to wager them.

Everyone understands what is meant by the term "music" in its everyday context. This suggests each of us can use that understanding to try and formulate a word-definition version of it.

I'm not into "Wahhh but you can't define nothing perfectly so don't even try." It just seems like a cop out.

youtube.com/watch?v=-FhhB9teHqU
skip to 14:25

Not him but lots of eastern music are atonal

>tfw people don't know what polytonality is

i'd rather bother with the experience of listening to a piece than trying to intellectually process if it's "music" or whatever

is it really atonal, or is it that they use different tonal systems. See I always looked at it as microtonal or not adhering to a different system.

community college music classes don't teach this in 2017? how did OP get released into the wild?

They seem rather different activities to me, though I should think all music lovers ponder the question at some point or other. I don't see why you can't do both. You could even do both simultaneously.

My community college professor was pretty open minded about 20th century music, though she didn't like it much she cuts off interest at Impressionism. But we learned base line stuff up to current trends of the 21st.

But I can't speak for anyone else.

Why can't it have elements of both

atonality is just another world of music making

most likely you'll just end up with the same abstract definitions and categories. let's say you categorize something as noise, you listen to it and perceive it as noise. the category you created is just going to be a description of your approach, your approach will matter more than what you name. or maybe you don't know how to approach something yet. you could put it into "wtf" category, but you're still going to have a category. it doesn't terribly matter, i believe

I guess it depends on the track or the part. Usually if something is considered polytonal anything outside that, depending on how prominent, would just be a non harmonic tone.

But you could have an atonal section of a song, but usually if your saying this part is polytonal it can't also be atonal. It can be debated depending on the situation, but it's kinda like if you have the colour black and also the colour white you can say it's two different colours. If you have spots of grey you might not count them, but if the entire part or most of it's grey you wouldn't say it's both black and white.

That might be a bad illustration but does that make sense?

So screaming at my mom for tendies is actually music?

In theory, I mean birds communicate though chirping and you could make music out of the chirping or there is a musicality to the chirping.

it might be a bit of a stretch but it could be considered music .

Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking how there are bits of the album where the instrumentation is pretty sparse and then the other instruments fill in. Those are atonal -> polytonal
Correct me if I'm wrong please

Atonal music easily fits under this definition

>birds communicate though chirping and you could make music out of the chirping or there is a musicality to the chirping.
worked for messiaen

Atonal is just a tonal system. But it's easier to classify that because it's more akin to each other vs tonal music which would include Madonna and Beethoven and Funkadelic. Those music be related somewhat in notes, but they don't stylistically have much in common. Atonal is more of a blanket term

I mean technically the songs that have no instruments are a ccapella inspired by beat poetry. but I get what your saying. If I stay in the key of distinct key for a few measures, even if I modulate 6 times, if it is mostly in that key it's tonal.

Like following the circle of fifths is tonal. I might also be repeating myself but tonality is just something to hold on to. In the key of C the most promient note would be C. You'd usually start on a C chord or make sure to have things return to that C. Again it can change keys and have tones not in the key, but it just depends on how prevelent. Like if someone is a big actor and in 70% of the film you'll think of it being his movie, verses the extras or the characters who are in only up to 10% of the film.

But if the sparse instrumentation sticks to a key it's tonal.

exactly, and in some music they try to actually replicate speech patterns. There's a song or two where Dolphy and Mingus have a communication, I can't think of it off the top of my head but it's written to replicate talking, not singing but like straight dialogue.

>Atonal music is not music I like to listen to

Fixed it for ya