Billy Graham is finally fucking dead. Atheists rejoice!

Billy Graham is finally fucking dead. Atheists rejoice!

1) Whatever begins to exist had a cause
2) The universe began to exist
3) Thus the universe had a cause

Damn, I remember when I was an edgy 14 year old atheist

Me too. Now I'm a sophisticated, educated atheist.

Who ?

Imagine being so insecure in your faith and so nervous about what happens after you die that you rejoice in the death of ONE PERSON.

>mfw

>faith
>atheist
Pick one.

What's your point?

Well, whoever created matter must be immaterial, else we have a contradiction. The only material things are abstract concepts like numbers, or alternatively minds. But numbers can't cause anything.
Additionally, to avoid an infinite regress, the cause must be past eternal.

So what we have is an incredibly powerful, timeless, immaterial, disembodied mind.

Personally, I think it's fair to call that God.

>Arguments for theism?
Many, some of which are particularly strong.
>Arguments for atheism?
None.

All you need to know.

1) is a completely false promises

Define what immaterial things are. Seems like a contradiction.

>some cooked af Christfag died

Ok. Sorry for his family.

Regards
- A Deist

We were inbuilt with faith. Faith does not equal religion which also does not equal relationship.

Regardless of how you feel about a higher power you go to bed at night with faith that you’ll awake in the morning. It’s part of the human condition.

Actually, the principal of causality is near universally accepted. For example, even the atheist philosopher David Hume said "I have never asserted so absurd a proposition, as something coming into existence without a cause."

>Arguments for theism?
Many, some of which are particularly strong.
>Arguments for atheism?
None.

All you need to know.

I could die in my sleep, I'm perfectly aware of that.

if you assume your conclusion you can prove anything

Christians always seem to win these threads.

The reason why is there are no Christians on Sup Forums There are only
>newfag atheist idiots
and
>slightly less retarded trolls

and the latter are more intelligent than the former.

Good thing I didn't do that then.

>Arguments for theism?
Many, some of which are particularly strong.
>Arguments for atheism?
None.

All you need to know.

How about the concept of perfection? Find another spontaneously created example of perfection created by a giant burst of stars and matter that exists in nature. You can’t do it and yet the framework for and to attain perfection is still in your mind. Why? Because we were created to worship a perfect God.

>the principal of causality is near universally accepted
Seems like infinite regression to me. If God created the universe, then who created God?

God did not begin to exist, thus doesn't need a cause. In fact, to avoid an infinite regress, we are forced to assume God is timeless and uncaused.

>Arguments for theism?
Many, some of which are particularly strong.
>Arguments for atheism?
None.

All you need to know.

So, something caused the Universe. That doesn't mean it was anything resembling any sort of God.

Assume [conditions such that God exists]. Therefore, God exists.
QED

Nothing is perfect. Perfection is a non-obtainable paradigm, like infinity.

see my proof that it was God here:

>we are forced to assume God is timeless and uncaused
Then the universe is timeless and uncaused.

Knowing that you could die in your sleep and subconsciously hoping you wake up are two separate things. The one does not satisfy the other.

Hope is not faith. Hope is wishing for the best outcome, faith is believing something without a logical reason.

If the conditions are held by all reasonable people, then this constitutes a proof of God.

There are many disproofs for this, both scientific and philosophical.

For example, if we assume the universe to be past-eternal we could not have ever reached our current point. There is an inherent paradox in this. This was sufficient for philosophy, but then we recently have the scientific proof by way of the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin theorem.

So yes,

2) The universe began to exist

Is true.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Now you’re starting to get it.

Also say it with me “God is timeless and uncaused”

I'm intrigued, go on...

>forced to assume God is timeless and uncaused
So even though the universe can't come from nothing somehow God can? So instead of just admitting facts that pertain to the starting of the universe still need discovering you jump right to it must be caused by a being that is an impossible existence?

>whoever
lmmfao. Amazing what happens when you attempt to reason with this as your first word.

Circular reasoning at its finest. It should be illegal to be as dumb as you.

Fact: the belief in a god requires faith. Anyone who is intellectually honest will realize there is zero argument or explanation that makes the existence of a god or gods a rational belief. The universe doesn't require one and it unnecessarily complicates any discussion about it without solving any perceived problems.

>God did not begin to exist
Then God does not exist, because
>1) Whatever begins to exist had a cause
What caused God?

I didn't realize me walking balls first into everything was a perfect solution.

It’s a similar idea with the framework of good vs. evil. You inherently know what is good and can say that it’s in our nature to be altruistic because it advances humankind but the concept of being good to one another is not a biological imperative- it is a blueprint we have built within us. There is no universal imperative for altruism. It doesn’t exist in other species.

So even though the universe can't come from nothing somehow God can?

Well no. God cannot come from nothing either. But God is timeless so did not start to exist at any point. It's important to remember that God and the Universe are two entirely different things, in many ways. I cannot simply say "so wait, this bread had to be baked but the laws of logic are eternal?" as if this is at all unusual.

>facts that pertain to the starting of the universe still need discovering
Sure. But the important one, that the universe began to exist, I have already proven. And that's all I needed anyway.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

You’re purposefully missing the point.

Argue the point man

>It doesn’t exist in other species.
What the actual fuck. Animals help each other all the time, especially other primates. Fucking fish help each other.

"The belief in God requires faith."

Untrue. I have proven that God exists in this very thread.

God did not begin to exist, so did not have a cause.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

lul NA fags

>The world is 8000y old or whatever (Bible and other shitty books)
>ppl found 1000000000000 bones and shits much much older

/thread

Yes, I've sat and thought about this too no end. Why do we feel compelled to do right for no other reason then it is the right thing to do. Why do I feel pain for others when I have no connection to them!?

>But God is timeless so did not start to exist at any point
Based on what? This is entirely made up.

>God did not begin to exist
So God does not exist.

Because you were built to love by a Creator that first loved you.

Based on Occam's razor. If we say God is not timeless then we are forced to have a creator God for this God, and so on into infinite regression. Occam's razor forces us to believe in the simplest God-Universe solution.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Then the universe doesn’t exist and yet here we are

? I don't really understand the leap of logic you make there. There are plenty of things which did not begin to exist, but still exist. For example mathematical laws, or other abstract concepts.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Yeah but there is no perfect god. All forms of modern theism give worship to a God that is flawed in one way or another. If anything a truly perfect being would not need worship because they are already perfect and would have no needs, prayer included. That would make theism completely pointless and be the same as having no God.

"this is how I like em and I suggest you have em the same"

>the simplest God-Universe solution
...to you is that a being that exists outside of time and space created the universe? Seems like the universe spontaneously existing is simpler.

Therefore magic invisible floating faggot in the sky

"Simpler" solutions which go against the principal of causality, or philosophical and scientific proofs, are not what Occam's razor implores us to believe.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

>mathematical laws did not begin to exist
As far as we know, mathematics is a human invention. It did begin to exist sometime in our history. If you're talking about the underlying nature of the universe that follows patterns, then that nature is inherent in the universe and began when the universe did.

Exactly. Because you’re looking through the glass of theism which is man-made. Anything man-made is flawed because man is flawed. Take religion out of it. I’m not Christian or anything else I simply believe in a higher power and that he or it or whatever is perfect

>whoever
opinion discarded

>the principal of causality
Don't even talk about causality when you're trying to convince us that somehow a being doesn't have to follow the same logic as everything else.

>Personally, I think it's fair to call that God
Which god?

That’s... incredibly short-sighted.

Doesn’t matter. Religion is man-made

It is at this point where you deviate from the entirety of philosophy, including atheist philosophers, and I simply cannot help you, as your view is too fringe.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

>Untrue. I have proven that God exists in this very thread.

Came here just to laugh at that, no you haven't dude, you haven't even made a single argument that makes his existence one iota more likely.

Get the fuck out of here with your cosmological argument. That shit has been refuted a billion times.

Either the universe has a cause, or it has always existed in some way. Neither of those two imply a god.
The only reason you think it does is because you are a fucking retard who doesn't understand what special pleading means.

You think that if the universe began to exist, that god must have caused it, but you ignore the fact that if you put god outside of the universe, you weren't talking about the universe, since the universe encompasses everything. If "god" has always existed, then the universe has always exited, by definition.

Wherever you try to insert god, I am allowed to insert non-magical, non-sentient, forces of nature.

That's logic 101.

Now go back to school.

>Arguments for atheism
A lack of general knowledge does not equal the existence of a creator being. Pretty sure that's the main reason for Atheism.

>Christians always seem to win these threads

Not invented, discovered.

You made an assumption that if something created the universe, it had to somehow be a "who". Also your grammar was incorrect. I can't tell which thing that guy was criticizing, but both deserve attention.

God does follow the same logic as everything else.

After accepting my proof of the existence of God given in this thread, I feel that the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is sufficient to show the Christian God is true.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Why can't God be man-made?

>God does follow the same logic as everything else.
Then if he exists, he began to exist, and my question still stands: what created God?

Insults do not constitute arguments.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

That was the point of the question.

>Me: checking back to see how it's turned out

Yep. Called it.

>the Christian God is true

any god is created by faith, there is no god without faith.

What created faith?

Correct, for the reason I presented.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

>there is no god
FTFY

>Arguments for theism
>Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
>None
>All you need to know.

Those words, you keep saying them. They do not mean what you think they mean.

Yes they do. For example, I have given one proof of God in this very thread. The atheists have still given... well... nothing really? To argue for atheism.
Their arguments really just end up being posts like this:
Really is fingers-in-ears stuff.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

You have provided no proof for the existence of any gods, let alone the Christian God.

What, you ignore my arguments just because I admit you are a fucking retard?

Let me explain to you what a ad hominem fallacy is, since you are too fucking stupid to grasp basic logic.

A ad hominem is when you insult someone in lieu of giving an argument.
Basically what you are saying is "you are wrong because you are an asshole".

I didn't do that you drooling cumbucket. I'm insulting you IN ADDITION to giving arguments.
In other words "You are wrong, AND you are an asshole".

By refusing to respond to me arguments just because I am an asshole, you are ironically in danger of making an ad hominem fallacy, since you are not ignoring my arguments based on their merit, but based on your perception of my character.

Any more stupid fucking attempts at an argument?

">Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know."

Yeah, I'm sure that is all you know you uneducated nigger cum glutton.

See:
>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

This is an amazing post user, particularly with the fact you accidentally replied to yourself. Keep up the good work.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Your proof is conjecture and hearsay. That's no proof at all

exactly.

Faith was created when ppl cant understand to "being" or "the world". Isnt weird there are no new religions? I mean really new and not a troll religion like Star wars shits & etc. All "big" religions were made 1000+y ago. When ppl were dumb and they needed to head some better meaning of life then memes

Actually it's a very clear formal proof:
If A then B
A
Therefore B

Was all I needed.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Fucking christ, who cares, here you go:

What, you ignore my arguments just because I admit you are a fucking retard?

Let me explain to you what a ad hominem fallacy is, since you are too fucking stupid to grasp basic logic.

A ad hominem is when you insult someone in lieu of giving an argument.
Basically what you are saying is "you are wrong because you are an asshole".

I didn't do that you drooling cumbucket. I'm insulting you IN ADDITION to giving arguments.
In other words "You are wrong, AND you are an asshole".

By refusing to respond to me arguments just because I am an asshole, you are ironically in danger of making an ad hominem fallacy, since you are not ignoring my arguments based on their merit, but based on your perception of my character.

Any more stupid fucking attempts at an argument?

">Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know."

Yeah, I'm sure that is all you know you uneducated nigger cum glutton.

Now respond to the actual arguments, I know you can't, but at least fucking try.

>Isnt weird there are no new religions?
>not a troll religion like Star wars shits & etc
You think the Jews were saying this when Christianity started?

Getting angry and insulting people (and accidentally insulting yourself, which did make me chuckle) is not an argument.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

Here’s what I know:

I have a right to be a Theist just like you have a right to be Atheist.

If I believe in a higher power and when I die and nothing happens, I haven’t lost a single opportunity.

If you do not believe in a higher power and when you die something happens, you have missed out on Paradise.

>Arguments for theism
>Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
>None

>All you need to know.

All I need to know. Your opinion and feelings about how the world should be are irrelevant.

Correct.

My proof of the existence of God, however, is very relevant indeed.

>Arguments for theism
Many, some of which are particularly strong
>Arguments for atheism
None

All you need to know.

What if you believe in the wrong god, and the real god likes atheists more than worshipers of a false idol?

Pascal's Wager is tired.

I dont know cause I did not live 2000y ago

you do realize this guy is trolling you, right?

God is God no matter what man-made religion looking-glass you peer through

Also why does my worldview piss you off so much? It’s the equivalent of being mad at someone because their favorite color is blue and you want it to be red.

>begins
Kalam spotted.

Tell me, why should we believe that the properties of objects within the universe should apply to the universe itself?

I'm not pissed off, I'm recognizing the flaws in your logic and asking you a question that will (hopefully) make you think more deeply about the subject. Please don't confuse me with a troll.