Has Sup Forums ever killed someone? I’ve been thinking about joining the Army...

Has Sup Forums ever killed someone? I’ve been thinking about joining the Army, and I wonder what it feels like to end someone’s life.

maybe. maybe not.

You're conditioned to murder, if you think you'll be able to kill right off the bat you're in for a big surprise.

Yes, I have. I served two tours in Afghanistan with the British Army.

It doesn't affect you as much at first because you're surrounded by friends within the army so it you're still amongst that atmosphere, when you get home and have time to yourself alone away from it all that's when the cold sweats and sickness kick in.

It's really not that bad. It eats some people up, some it doesn't bother. Got lucky I guess.

10/10 will kill again

The getting shot at part and having high powered rounds impact next to you is worse.*SNAP*SNAP*

you feel nothing but Ilan adrenaline rush from being in combat. Guns take away the emotions of killing bc of the distance you are engaging at. CQC is no longer a thing really unless you're SO.
>army

lets hope you're killed. :3

Odds are you wont kill someone. And if you do, between machine gun fire, artillery, air support, etc you still might not know if you're the one that killed the person, unless you're looking right at them when they die.


Go read 'On Killing'.

It doesn't feel like anything until years down the road when you're doing something awesome with your family. Then you start thinking about that guys family or family he never got to have. Then you drink. Then your family leaves you. Then you're alone. Then you're back here waiting for the only chance you get to see your kids every other weekend but kind of hate it because they hate you Circle of life.

It's different for everyone. I can't really tell you what you're going to feel if you ever get the chance. An Army will condition you to kill the enemy, so when it comes time to pull the trigger you won't even think about it (or that's the theory anyway).

Like what said. It doesn't effect you as much when you're still there because you're still in the AO and you're in the zone. The traumatic shit starts when you get back home and you're in a completely different world and you're forced to think about what you did.

Killed stepdad out of self-defense of me and my mom and I don't regret it or feel bad whatsoever. If you have a good reason and cause to kill, it wont bother you, if you kill out of cold blood, that's when it hits you, hard. Unless, you're a sociopath of course. Not implying I am but have personally seen them react to innocent blood.

It's a hell of a thing killin' a man, you take away everything he's got and everything he's going to have.

The Army certainly conditions you to kill, you're constantly and vigorously moulded during your training to mentally be able to handle it in the moment - you are analysed and assessed based on a number of factors, if they deem you incapable of doing it you're gone as you'll then become a burden should an incident occur where it's required.

To me, it was genuinely shocking to see how primal and murderous we can become given the right circumstances and conditions.

I will say one thing, when you pull the trigger you feel almost nothing morally - the weapon takes all of the personal aspect away from killing.

2 of my friends killed in close combat engagements, one with his bayonet, he's damaged the most and I'm convinced it's due to the personal aspect of forcing a physical object into a man to kill him and to monitor his breathing until you're certain he's dead, that's something you can't be taught.

It depends on what MOS you take. If you want to kill someome, then look into the infantry, combat engineers, and the cavlary scouts. Im in training right now but with my MOS, ill never even leave the country, or be issued a weapon.

First time i did it was in defense of my friend who was getting jumped I stabbed the man we were 13 and he was a full grown man I just kept going until he collapsed

I don't think about it really I kinda liked it and it's desensitized me from life completely

Sniperfag here, served in Ukraine
One thing I like about my job is that I dont feel too bad about shooting people, it doesent feel personal shooting a fag from where he doesent see you. Then again, I get minor ptsd every time I'm at a roof in the city

Grentixt?

There was a study done in 1947 that concluded that only 20% of allied troops actually fired their weapon in the general direction of the enemy, let alone with any accuracy. People just aren't naturally conditioned to kill someone without reason.

That’s the reason a lot of people join up. Here’re a few hints:

- waking up early sucks
- ‘hurry up and wait’ will be your whole life
- hand grenades are really fucking loud
- tracer rounds foul your barrel like a motherfucker
- jumping out of aircraft mostly just hurts
- the food’s not that bad

It honestly doesn’t feel like anything. In the Army, you’re shooting at the same target as the rest of your squad, if not whole platoon. Some guys couldn’t handle it and just kind of randomly pulled the trigger, but most guys, myself included, took targeted shots. When we walked up into their bodies later, I felt pride. It’s like winning a wrestling match. Or playing the world’s most immersive video game.

This.

Have fun waking up screaming after nightmares. Have fun attacking a member of your family because your PTSD has made you fucking sick. Have fun but being able to work because you don't trust anybody except your friends, most of which were injured or killed. Have fun sleeping all day because your medication keeps you feeling like your life is a dream.

Don't join the military.

fucking pussy.

That's not what it's like.

As other people have said, it feels different for everyone, and it won't really weigh on you until you get back to the world. You're not going to have any screaming nightmares or shit like that, that's mostly in the movies. If it does happen, you go talk to someone and get it straightened out.

I think more about the guys I lost than the people I killed. All of Afghanistan isn't worth one dead American or Euro.

I'm assuming the participants were combatants in WW2, since then we have more sophisticated training methods, longer training duration, better weaponry and the theatre of war in today's standards is far different so it's hard to correlate that study with today's soldiers.

Moreso, rules of engagement prohibit firing without provocation - for me, we wasn't allowed to fire unless fired upon at all times, this was drilled into us from day 1 of being there. All engagements resulting in the opposing side losing men was retaliation fire.

That said, around 70% of men that killed in Afghanistan never saw nor heard that they'd killed a man until bodies were identified due to the harsh and usually heavily fortified areas where fire was directed towards.

This.
I don't give a fuck about the people I killed over there because they were there to do the same to me and I'm still fucking here and sadly most of my brothers are not. That's what really kills the fuck out of me.

That's why the Exchange sells whiskey, my man. Go pour one out for 'em.

Worse than you think it will.

I agree that warfare has changed dramatically since WWII. WWII was a total war and rules of engagement at the time were essentially to kill the enemy. We were much less concerned about civilian casualties. The enemy was technologically equivalent to you and engagements were far more brutal versus today.

If your interested in the psychological aspects of killing and it's effects upon people then read the book "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. It's an excellent book. Basically his thesis is that the closer up you are in the killing process, meaning like you use your hands or a knife to kill someone, then the stronger psychological effect it has upon you. And the farther away you are. like a remote drone operator, then the less psychological effect it has upon

Here's to us and them. ( Our fallen )
Much love.
>HOOOAH

Killed 2,948 people during my tour, by bombings and drone strikes but it sort of counts. Still had a role in those killings.

I spend almost every day thinking about the men that died around me.

I can't justify their deaths, I just can't.

No man should've died in that war, it fucking kills me knowing that for the most part, they died for fucking nothing.

I lost two men helping Afghanistan police officers who turned on us and shot two men dead in cold blood, the news wants the civvies to think both America and the UK have changed Afghan police for the better, far fucking from it.

I would disagree with that thesis. One of the things that always fucked me up was when we called in tac air to hit a house or something instead of clearing it. There was no way to know if there were non-combatants in there. I would say not knowing who you killed is worse than being up close and pulling a trigger.

PTSD is literally a meme, if your mind is not capable of withstanding a murder/warfare the mind is too weak to become a soldier in the first place.

Carrier guy or airforce?

What aspect of it haunts the most? Seeing the body? Not knowing who they were or who they left behind? Does the fact you did it to protect yourself help at all? Is it even typically in self defense or is the enemy slaughtered once spotted?

...

You don’t feel much you’ll be too occupied with other bullshit that comes with deployment, it turns into just another thing that happened. Hollywood has dramatized the process so much it’s sickening

chair

Should feel like business.

The true test of yourself is not to kill someone who deserves it, but to kill someone who doesn't deserve it, and live with yourself anyway.

Just be aware that both are a Pandora's box, of sorts.

Are there any certain traits that will result in a higher risk of developing ptss?

You're not alone.
>wants civvies to think we and the UK changed authorities in Afghanistan
Breaks my heart knowing that there are people out there actually believing in this when in reality, the shit storm still hasn't reached full potential.
See One for you too brother.
>HOOOAH

It's a crap shoot OP. You can end up totally fine, or royally fucked up from combat. Probably somewhere in between those.

The military is going to take you young, and then bleed you for every ounce of your usefulness to fulfill whatever foreign policy the people in charge decide is important to the country that month.

If you want to take that gamble with your mental health, feel like you can come out ahead in that deal, and not burned out and used up; by all means go combat arms. Otherwise pick some POG MOS. Even then, they're going to squeeze as much productivity out of your youth as they can.

Not saying don't join, just do it with your eyes open. There's a reason they recruit at 18.

...

>to kill someone who doesn't deserve it
explain further.

Funnelchair?

If there were we'd be better at screening for it before sending people to combat.

I really tried to go over there with an open mind, but honestly those people didn't want us there. They don't give a fuck about electricity or running water or innoculations or any of the modern stuff we tried to give them. They want to live in their bronze age paradise and stone their women and rape little kids. Wish I was joking or being edgy... but it's true.

When were you there? I did 16 months with the US Army, Oct 2001-Mar 2003.

You might even say you will be... unforgiven

I never had any confirmed kills. I have been shot at, and I shot at someone, but I never actually saw explicitly if I offed someone. The engagement ended with close air support. However the investigation of the area afterwards showed gunshot wounds, so the possibility exists that some of those bullets were mine. I don't really feel anything from that, they were trying to kill me so I had to kill them first. The fear from being shot at is something that I took home though. Hearing and feeling rounds impact next to you was fucking intense. The firefight videos you see on youtube don't really give you the sense of how absolutely loud and confusing war is. It was surreal going from a place where you had the real possibility of dying to an environment where everything was safe and calm, I think this dichotomy is what fucks a lot of people up.

This.

It's actually mind boggling how regressive they were, the only reason they were up our arse was because they knew we would feed them with reasonable food.

They didn't give a shit that rebels were in town, if anything they aided them where they could. They knew exactly where IED's were but never told us, we had to resort to watching their walking patterns along the road to see where potential traps were placed.

It hit my mind very fucking quickly that regardless of what we done over there, it would be years and years before any slight change came into effect.

Trying my hardest not to sound like a fuckhead but over the years they have stolen / found a way to get our technology, water purification ways, they see in the dark with OUR fucking nightvision goggles off OUR own dead brothers. They don't need to learn it or want it, they take everything they need off our dead brothers.

Also add what this brother said to what I said

I don't care about the people I killed in Afghanistan either, same reason. However I've been affected thinking about their families. The fact I took someone's son or brother or father away. In an engagement in Paktika I killed a kid, no more than 13-14, a guy in my squad killed his father, and my platoon leader killed the grandfather. In like 2 minutes 3 generations of this family were wiped away. I sometimes think about how that impacts their families

'deserve' is a value assessment that varies from person to person, or even, with the same person as time passes.

Did they give you or your brothers a real reason to shoot to kill and not shoot to warn?

I served two tours from 2006-2007 as a sergeant in The Rifles regiment in the British Army. Had been in the army for around 4 years prior.

Did they do anything typical that caused a legitimate reason for them to be fired upon and end up being killed?

Oh yeah. It was all by the book. They got what was coming. I just feel for their family, who weren't shooting at us, who lost all the men in their house.

Hooah brother

Good for you man. I was infantry, 3/75. I was in for 4 years prior, was supposed to get out in Nov 2001 but 9/11 changed a that.

>All by the book
>Got what was coming
how did a 12 year old, their dad and the grandfather come to cause such a ruckus that made it come to shoot to kill

Your gun is going to run over by the train silly boy

By firing on a platoon of Americans searching for weapons.

Recoil.

This isn't that type of situation.

I'm not really trying to talk about it, only to pass along the knowledge that sometimes, perspectives change. What you were once comfortable with may not be something you are comfortable with later in life.

Then in that case I wouldn't feel any remorse. If they really cared about their generations they would of told them to put their guns down and the elders should of listened.
>If the family in the house did attempt to tell them that of course

Just say : pshht noting personel kid.. And you wont feel any remorse

What about the second time?

There's a very high chance that the family who fired on them had the notion that the Americans killed relatives of theirs hence the retaliation.

It was quite common for elders and villagers to be told by rebels that it was allied soldiers that killed members of the village when in actual fact it was them, which resulted in a lot of villagers dying over false stories and lies.

In fact, it was one of the main recruiting tactics the Taliban used, when MP spoke to captured Taliban, A LOT of them said they joined the cause for revenge, not for religious beliefs.

>believe we are there to harm them and not save them
>invaded kuwait to protect
>deed done
>still thinks we are there to harm them
what else can you do.

23 SAS 1st ISR Brigade, a jobs a job.

Joining the army only ends your life. If you want to end somebody else's join the marines.

Uh huh. Sure

>what it feels like to end someone’s life.
What it FEELS like?
What a feminine, feminizing question.
Killing someone is like breaking a bottle, except it's the bottle that holds everything someone has or ever can have.
You can become neurotic or brutal, but training lets you not think about it until objectives have been achieved and you can save the reflection, trauma, guilt and depression for when you get home and are discarded by your society.
Take a look down that road before you walk it.

>vietnam

The killing is easy, it's the not thinking that is hard. Unless you are a brainless /b edgelord that no longer has an y humanity to them you will think about taking that person life. How you let that affect you will depend on your own mental fortitude.

Real Talk:

The armed forces are an awful place to go under any circumstances. Trust me, you don't love your country enough to die for it or even be mildly inconvenienced for it. The armed forces will take you, pay you pennies to try and force you to conform to what they deem as appropriate. You'll be forced into line and your individuality will be worked out of you.

You'll miss home, family, and familiar surroundings, but that's not as bad as the desire to leave and be anywhere else. the armed forces does not, and will not, care for you during or after they have gotten what they want from you.

Killing is not a life-altering experience by any stretch. It's scary because you think you should feel something, but you won't. The desire to feel grief and pain over killing someone is what triggers the sickness. You're not freaking out because you killed someone, you're freaking out because you killed someone and life keeps going and doesn't change.

If you're going to kill someone, aim for extremists on either side of the spectrum, though I'd rather see the world flooded with "safe-spacers" and "SJWs" before literal Nazis.

TLDR: The armed forces are shit regardless what the chest beaters say. The benefits are tied up behind 8 years, minimum, of your life. Go shoot a Nazi. Tennessee has an infestation, last I heard.

explain how Navy SEALs feel then?

How about you spastic Americans stay in your own country and if the sand niggers want to live in shit and piss let them live in shit and piss, the world hates you with a passion, you are the dumbest bastards on earth, the dumbest fattest greasiest self entitled bastards on this planet, 7 billion odd people on earth and it revolves around Americas fuck ups.
Let that sink in you spastic fat shits

consider that some people would be in prison if they weren't in their current occupation.

tbh america is still quite a recent find and has only grown since its discovery. also britfag here

Why you so worried about Merica? Why not worry about your own countries business? Acting as if you have no issues either.

Well why don't you try ending your own ?

this opened my eyes the fuck up.
is that what we really do to people who " save our nation " with user names and operation codenames?
>as if Navy SEALs have a chance of backing out and saying fuck this i'm done
>bullet in the head, cant let him leak any knowledge.

>only winning move is not to play

Have any of you vets actually thought that you were going to make a difference over in the mid-east? That those ideologically fucked up nations, who've been living in the dark ages for millenia, actually wanted the west to take out their governments and guide them towards "civilization"?

The US deploying in Afghanistan and even Iraq has been the most useless shit ever, thousands dying, both american soldiers and civvies and terrorists for literally nothing. Iraq is still a shithole filled with religious conflict, even more so after IS popped up.

And Afghanistan? Nothing ever changed there, government barely has any control over anything that isn't the capital. It's a goddamn anarchy with extremists putting a bullet on anyone dumb enough to avoid cooperation. I'll always love reading the mainstream news saying how Afghanistan is healing, that islam is a religion of peace, and the little stories about people being nice. Even though only a few can be nice because the other 99% of people over there has to do the most fucked up shit just to live one more week.

Just looking at those countries makes you understand why people sought religion in the middle ages, the only respite for them comes after death, anything before that is just a struggle.

fuckin chekk'd.
this game took me forever to beat but I still did it.
>only winning move is not to play
That made me kek considering how much of a pain in the ass this game was.