Music Production General

sup all
feeling bored/generous, used Sup Forums for years now for tracks and inspiration and figured I'd give back a lil if anyone is interested

I'm a kinda-but-not-really-well-known electronic producer, got tracks ghosted for a bunch of guys, played festivals and have film credits. Do it full time, so I must be doing something right I guess

so ask me any questions about production/gear/the industry etc, and/or for critique and I'll listen on my studio setup and give you feedback

or just cool songs too idk

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youtube.com/watch?v=8bzLx-5PAs4
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What did you do to promote your music?

when I started out (2010ish) the blog scene was just getting it up, so it was a very different scene. I did bootlegs mostly. nowadays my advice is to focus on original music served thru instagram and youtube as most other sites throttle your organic reach. that said, most of my actual connections were made from in person networking, not online

What kind of controller would you recommend for a beginner?
How did you learn sound design?

Can you give advice to a non electronic musician?

if by controller you mean 'dj' controllers - don't. find someone with cdjs, and do whatever they ask to learn on those. no one in the big league uses controllers. (iirc zedd and porter robinson did for a little while but they quit asap)

cdj nexus are basically sync machines now anyways so it doesn't matter

sound design is hard, no lie. while you can get the basics from youtube tutorials, the best way to learn imo is to deconstruct premade patches. cymatics (while a cancer to the industry) make great serum patches for learning how filters/fm/bend +/- etc can influence patch design

once you know the basics it's a matter of experimentation to find cool sounds you like to use.

once you find that combination you guard it jealously until your genre dies

Oh sorry I meant MIDI controller, like a keyboard or drumpad.
I'm mostly interested in synths and not playing live.
>the best way to learn imo is to deconstruct premade patches
Will try.
Any good youtube tutorials?

non electronic musicians have it hard right now. if you're in a band with 3-5 people especially, touring is often a losing money proposition. 'rock' is pretty tough atm in the industry. (i'm assuming you play guitars here)

if you want to play full time, I know several guys doing the session route. they record freelance for producers who need their services and also perform shows on the side and also teach a lil. everyone needs 1 or 2 side hustles to make it.

the common thing they all have is being fucking amazing at their instrument. like, if you ask them to play a part in Fmaj, this chord progrssion, at this click, with a bossa feel, they can have it nailed in one or two takes.

there is no time for bullshit with any 'real' instrument

if you want to make it as an 'act' try out a hybrid show. people integrating playing guitar with DJ sets are becoming popular, if the music is good too. guys like gryffin, apashe, pendulum, play stuff live. I think that's probably where the industry is headed. people are tired of seeing guetta hit play and hear some prerecorded bangers.

just gotta make what you put out 'live' comparable to the studio recordings... which is no small task

gotcha -- midi controllers are more flexible, especially if you're only using them in the studio.

if you want synths though, generally you mean hardware stuff? midi controllers are basically just triggers, they have no sound generators on board

it's all about touch feel and what you need in your workflow, then. controllers help make it easier to write faster, basically.

I use an akai pad for more rap/hip hop beat making and a few midi alesis and roland weighted and non weighted piano type controllers for playing vsts in various styles

youtube tutorials -- seamlessr has some good (if a bit cringe) basics. but for the VERY basics the manual is the way to go

I released my own album playing all the instruments by myself. Guitar, drums, keyboards, bass, vocals. I'm honestly afraid there is no where left for my kind of music.

Here is one of my songs, am I fucked if I want to try to make it big?

youtube.com/watch?v=8bzLx-5PAs4

no dude that's awesome. plenty of bands got their start as 'studio only' endeavors. I love that stuff.

It's more the genre than the production that limits that, if that makes sense.

If you're not making something new/cool with those instruments then what's the point? it's just basically going 'look at what I can do'

define 'big'

this has pretty generic production and lyrics. there are a ton of songs that do this exact same feeling already but better.

however it sounds pretty good, especially for a bedroom production(?)

I could see a label picking this up for production but with a bunch of caveats and a producer to try to """modernize""" it

that said I do like it, and the vocalist is pretty good if a bit heavy handed with the accent style

no one? bueller?

was kinda hoping for some spicy soundcloud jams

Thank you so much, how would producers try to modernize it? genuinely curious. Also I know my vocals are heavy handed but I just absolutely hate how a lot of pop vocalists sing with like it's their last breath on every line.

(cont)

By big I mean, make enough money where I can live off my music.

if I were to guess (depending on the label) they would definitely add drums, probably a kit of some kind, and bring in their electronic team to try to sample/layer instruments. probably replace the entire instrumental actually, and ask you to write a catchier chorus, with your original song becoming more of a verse/bridge.

you can hold a pitch and have nice tone for sure. work on scooping into the starts of every note. it's ok for this style but doesn't fly generally

easiest way to make a living on this type of music is with ad placements, lol

more generic lyrics, less sadness overall, work with a library specializing in more indie/folk stuff.

this kind of shit sells like hotcakes for insurance and drug commercials

Thanks for the advice man, I really appreciate it. Awesome to hear from an industry pro.


Honestly if this happened though I would be extremely upset. I feel like it would turn into dentist room music, which is a term I coined for songs that show up on the radio when your getting your teeth drilled.


But overall I would cross that bridge if by the small chance I EVER crossed it.

lol I could honestly see that. Wouldn't be so bad writing a jingle for vagisil

you have to be ok with your tunes being ruined to make it desu. it's a rare song that doesn't get fucked to death by some higher up. once labels/marketing is involved RIP

I make most of my living writing vapid :15-:30 bumpers for ads like that, so yea you can suck it up for a decent front end + cable backends lol

So I guess recording artist bitch about labels for a reason huh?

Makes me kind of depressed desu

1. Are you in a union?

2. What is the most/average you have gotten paid for a film credit?

3. What was your total income from music in 2016?

there's a reason why every recording artist who makes it big starts their own label basically

lucky you, with the internet you could cut the middle man out...

...you just play the wrong genre, unfortunately

yes, 2 (kinda) AFM and ASCAP (which is a PRO but unionizes certain aspects of being a songwriter/composer)

most income -- 20k USD (major film trailer)
average -- 1-3k (broadcast spots)

not sure yet, backend from cable ads won't come in until feb 2018 for tax year 2017. should be good, ~100k at this rate. was a quality third quarter

How do I get broadcasters/studios/advertising companies to consider my production music as an independent artist?

there is always suicide!

this can be tricky, as everyone generally thinks they are 'good enough' but no one is actually a good judge of this. aka: you're shittier than you think

this leads to most music supervisors being VERY untrusting of new acts who claim they are good enough for their catalog. most places won't even take unsolicited material

your best bet (and how I got in) is to make a personal connection IRL with someone, and become friends/demonstrate your music level to them. once they can vouch for you, you can submit tracks through them to their library.

be sure to do your research on what libraries specialize in what genres, as there are a FUCKTON of music libraries, most of which aren't worth your time at all. you want a place with a smaller, high quality catalog in your style that actively pushes their composers. not some place like audiojungle

this is true. but only if you are 27. and already a particularly well known act

Actually have a song called club of 27s, should do it just to fuck with people

so how do i get out sound out of synth1?
i got some soundbanks loaded but i can't get sound out of it.
there is no keybind option anywhere and googling didnt help.

>cymatics (while a cancer to the industry) make great serum patches for learning how filters/fm/bend +/- etc can influence patch design

i dont understand this sentence even after reading related wikis. but this seems interesting. especially what you describe as beeing a cancer to the industry. can you translate for noob ?

Which DAW are you using?
If you're using reaper you need to use the virtual keyboard or a MIDI input.

im using a reaper how do i accesses the virtual keyboard?

Click view, the option is at the bottom of the 2nd block.

best VST reverb?

plate: valhalla, lex pcm vintage plate
realisim: exponential audio phoenix, r4
glue: lex pcm random
wtf: eventide blackhole

Are audio interfaces overrated?

why would they be?

How do rights work when for broadcast spots/film music? Do you retain the rights to what you create, allowing you to sell it/repurpose the composition again in the future, or does the studio/production company own the song?

totally depends on the contract.
but usually if you hand over the rights completely they still allow you to use it for f.e. a portfolio website.

wow that sucks. do you ever hold back your best shit for arrangements where you get ongoing royalties?

Song of my songs are my babies, I'd be bummed to give them up.

depends on how royalty systems work in your country, there's absolutely the chance that you still get your cut on airtime being the composer, even if you don't hold the rights to sell or license the work anymore

good thread, OP's a decent user

Thanks for the read OP. Have you met any big names?

Did you play any instrument before you were into producing?
I don't and I'm just starting out, which instrument is the best to learn first?

do you pay for or pirate your plugins?

whats good all, had to sleep, was 3am here.

I see another knowledge user has been answering/keeping the thread alive though, but I'll keep answering questions as I can now

basically cymatics makes good synth patches with tricks that not many people had figured out before, especially in serum. (things like growl basses -- FM, specific oscillator designs, filters to abuse) this led to them being used very, very extensively. aka every single dubstep track from 2016 on. they also treat their designers like shit, and the marketing they do is clickbait central, just gross

the best verb isn't a vst, it's hardware - bricasti m7. only like like 10k USD though!
my fav vst is phoenixverb. it's used a lot in records. I also like valhalla shimmer for big spaces. it's a good workflow improvement
this guy knows his shit

as far as producing goes, you need an interface with asio drivers to get a decently low latency if you want to record anything live. that said, after you get one, they all function pretty similarly, and you won't notice a difference past the various driver support. RME has the best drivers imo. now if you are clipping things/getting fancy with tracking, you'll need a mixer or an interface with preamps -- those do make a big difference on sound quality

is again right, but it depends on the placement. If you go through a library, the usual arrangement is they will take a % of the upfront fee and take over ownership of the master recording + publishing, and you will keep your writers share for broadcast royalties. some of the shittier places will try to take your writers too, or more than 50% of the upfront fee. after this, yes, they will own the song, exclusively. but good tracks with good libraries can get bought again and again, so it's a decent compromise imo, since it incentives them to keep pushing your music

yes, quite a few, mostly backstage at festivals however, so "not really" as everyone is just sizing everyone else up in those situations

on my ghost work for bigger names though, I got to know them pretty well. they're all generally good people (exceptions do abound), just too young to have enough experience to live quite up to the expectations placed on them by superstardom. so dudes like me help them more fully realize their tracks

yes, brass, then vocals, guitar, piano. would say (for producing), piano is objectively the most useful. maybe vocals as you can sing your own demos. but being able to record synth parts, strings, electronic drums, etc in real time is so much faster than mouse + kb entry. you can even use midi piano entry for score prep in finale/sibelius

I pay for my plugins now, but pirated the shit out of them when I started making music. still will, to test if stuff is worth it now and then if there isn't a decent demo, but most developers have really reasonable demo periods nowadays.

I personally know devs too, and try to support them as much as possible, especially if I use them in a project that sells. lots of guys don't do that though, even ones bigger than me. feels kinda fucked up desu

I have spent...a painful amount of money on plugins/kontakt libraries/studio hardware (tax write offs tho babyyy)

You can get 2i2's for less than a $100 most places and you can also have it power external monitors. I don't really see why not in most cases. It's even more convincing when you consider the amount of affordable hardware synths in the market which are great for learning and can still sound great on even "pro" tracks.

yeah, no intentions to take over your thread, just answered a couple of simple/unpersonal things so the thread wouldn't die.
nice to see you return, great info so far itt

Do you have any "golden goose" songs that keep paying steady royalties for years and years? How do some songs come to achieve this status?

I"m not sure if you can help me or not, but I am in the same boat as many young producers where we find great samples and write great groove loops, but struggle to write full fledged songs. Is there any hope for me? What can I do to overcome this? Thank you for your time btw, you sound like you live an interesting life.

no worries dude. i'm not a sole authority on anything just a guy with a decade+ in the biz. thanks for keeping it alive

yes, everyone does, and it's partly a luck of the draw thing while also being smart about trends a bit.

one of my tracks that keeps getting picked up I wrote in a week in 2015, and it didn't start getting sold until this year, but it's more 'future' esque, and I was thinking at the time that some brands would be getting into that sound eventually so was already prepared when they did

also, sometimes your tracks from one day are just.... better.... than tracks from other days. those better songs have longer lives usually. this applies to more than just library music, but all your music.

sometimes you just write better songs, everyone does.

I do want to emphasize again a lot of it comes down to pure luck with what brands like what tracks

Do you tour? If not then why?

I think that I am a talented song writer, an OK producer, and a good instrumentist. What can I do if I just want to write songs for other people? I'm sorry if this question seems strange, but like is there somewhere online I can go where somebody requests a song about something and I write it for them.

I've had this problem too, but I'm making progress. My best advice would just be to listen to as many songs as you can and figure out the conventions of how they're written, and how the dynamics work. Stop paying attention to just the loops in a song and start paying attention the interaction between two loops.

if you can write a good groove a decent part of the battle is already won, as you've got a good ear going.

You can't teach taste, and that's often what makes a good producer good -- not EQ or compression or whatever new hot production trend is going (looking at you, formant shifted vocals)

the secret to overcoming that is::: knowing everyone struggles with it.

I have literally 500+ 8-16bar loops that never made it into a song. sometimes you can pull from those ideas, combine them, use them in other ways, but sometimes they just die. first thing is to accept that sometimes your sweet groove will die off, and it's necessary and not weird in any way

the next step is very personal and depends on your writing style.

for me, I like to back away from the technical stuff to try to get creative. I will stand up, walk around/away from the studio, try to start hearing the song 'in my minds ear' -- humming, tapping out rhythms, etc. anything to get the technical side away from the thinking. then once I get an idea going, try to map it out in my head or on a piano as quickly as possible - the ideas need to flow rapidly onto paper. this is actually called the 'flow state', really neat research for us creative types

sometimes though, not even that works, and you need to be ok with stepping away. it happens. if you get frustrated it fucks all that mojo up

just keep writing songs. Bach has his famous hits, but also 1500+ daily organ pieces no one really plays

how many songs do you need in your portfolio to get seriously considered for a deal from a library music catalog?

I think what I struggle with most is with samples. If I am writing all the chords myself and all the instrumentation, I can bounce around because of my theory background but I struggle pretty hard when it comes to sample based stuff since you can only do so much. I'm still a beginner with producing, but the same seems to happen when I write drum parts. I'll usually just add or remove a component, hhat etc, during a verse/interlude, but would like to know what other variations would help my work flow.

>I have literally 500+ 8-16bar loops that never made it into a song. sometimes you can pull from those ideas, combine them, use them in other ways, but sometimes they just die. first thing is to accept that sometimes your sweet groove will die off, and it's necessary and not weird in any way

Is there a minimum song length you shoot for?

this is really great - thank you senpai.

I think letting go to an idea is something that I never considered fully.

yes, I have toured, but am a lil older now and honestly always preferred writing to playing. very different feelings. but it is a hell of a rush to play for a crowd that's really into your set.

It's also difficult to maintain enough of a presence online/in ads to keep up a touring schedule without a whole crew now, and I like doing most of my stuff myself. hence me being on Sup Forums

the real money for being an artist is definitely in touring though, merch too, as long as you are a DJ type one man act who can take all the money themselves. splitting it 5 ways via a band is just brutal with prices down across the board

you need to meet people IRL. there are collab sites online but they are trash.

if you want to write for someone you need to get to know them and have a real time session, there's really no substitute imo.

I've found some clients at local shows, open mic nights, friend referrals, etc. but as a producer you are seriously guiding and helping a songwriter realize their vision and that's hard/impossible to do via text/phone/online

people who want to get into that scene often move to hotspots like nashville or LA, too

depends on the library. a more bulk place wants to see volume, and a more quality oriented place wants just that-- authenticity

if a place likes you sometimes they will contract out an "album" of trailer music for them, but as a general rule you need several tracks of basically every single major genre, to start, in case they ask for particular references as you bid

however please don't just dropbox 75 tracks to an inbox unsolicited. that will earn you no points and as the industry is small seriously hurt you if they remember/shittalk you

samples can be a curse. make your own if you can for the reasons you say -- you are limited by them to a maddening degree. I try to record as much as possible, even if I have a sample that could work. for drums, listen to jazz - especially more big band tracks, the drummer's job is to set up all the big hits and they can get real creative with those fills. fun stuff

for libraries, yes, they like to see at least :90 usually, with a hard ending hit. none of that fade out bullshit, write a proper ending so they can cut to it.

for my own tracks, depends on the genre. pop is pretty structured with its verse-chorus thing, so those almost always are 3:30 at least

long form experimental/electronic music is more fun, with 16-64 bar intros for mixing, those can be 7+ min easily

however I don't look at run time while writing honestly, just structure: things like 8 bar intro - 8 bar verse - 4 bar prechorus - 16 bar chorus, etc

track runtime is just a natural extension of the sections in your song + the tempo

this was a big turning point for me, not trying to force every single project into some box to 'finish'

that said, to get better a finishing tracks, you have to finish tracks... it is the only way. just don't get so bogged down you never write anything else but that one magnum opus loop you started 2 summers ago

Any advice for people with talent and a lot of time and money for things like mastering?
I’m scared that if I sign to a major they’ll want creative control, so should I go with an indie label or release independently?
Tough question I know.

how's 2C Audio B2?

>people with talent
post pieces

I don't like it, if you want a complicated engine that doesn't sound good you might as well use the flux ircam verb
the b2 is similar to that as in you have to fiddle the shit out of it to make it sound usable, IMO

Well if I post something good I can’t use it so it’s a catch 22. I guess I’ll tell you that I’ve made some good shit, not everything is good but a lot of it is listenable.

I mean, pro mastering from abbey roads starts at like $150. the price has bottomed out tremendously unless you're paying chris lord alge to mix your record for some insane reason.

If you are honestly good enough to sign to a major (again, it's hard to judge your own abilities) then you have options - you can sign, if you get noticed.

they WILL exert creative control and mix/master your tracks. however those engineers are better than you (and me) so it's ok, and they will work with you to make the best possible music they can. the label is fronting the bill after all and desperately needs money

indie labels often will not do much for you - they have no money, little reach, and most are a waste of time. they can be useful, but you have to play very carefully here, or you'll sign your masters away for no gain

releasing independently is a great option, if you have money to front some ads and all the little things labels do. you will still need to get your tracks mastered, artwork done, audience targeted, headshots/promo pics, branding, etc etc

but you will retain ownership of your own masters which is awesome

what kind of genre

I agree with user, not useful and complicated to program

people freak out about reverbs so much, but imo they are just not as important as all that.

much more necessary to record in a decent room with the right mic, or design the synth patch correctly

your reverb won't save you from bad sound sources no matter how smooth it's reflection algorithms are

at least you know not to post shit. WIPs get stolen all the time.

if you really are good guard your music carefully. especially in pop/electronic

ok, then what's some complicated engine that sounds good?

Great, thanks for the answer. Im still not sure what to do, but I guess I’ll keep being fully independent until I get better at production and songwriting.

Rec me a cheap synth

I guess RnB or hip hop. Big fan of Flockavelli esque brass sounds so sometimes I do that.
Best thing I’ve made is kinda wonky RnB.

why do you need a complicated reverb? what is your reason? sound design purposes?

the zynaptiq wormhole/adaptiverb are pretty fun to play with under the hood, if totally unnecessary

yes, keep your head down until you're good as fuck. people are easily replaced, especially in hip hop/rap. if you want to actually 'make it' you'll need to not just be good, but also have some new angle too.

hardware or software user

I'm working on a synthpunk project and I also need to help a friend with his memerap stuff.

I'm not sure what cheap means to you, but bottom of the barrel cheap would be the microbrute - bass station II if you want a nice mono synth bass synth. Mininova's are not bad to get you started and I prefer them over the Microkorg memes, but both are very hard to program your own tones into. I like the Korg minilogue a lot at the moment and have been using it as my main. The osciliscope and the polyphonic range has been very enjoyable.

I mean I need some hardware.

thx m8

>why do you need a complicated reverb? what is your reason? sound design purposes?
yeah, I like totally crazy things
something like PSP 608 MultiDelay, but a reverb unit

Moog System 55

my dude. for poly, minilogues are so good. korg really knocked it out of the park there.

I do fucking hate my microkorg. regret that purchase so much, even the vocoder blows

monowise, dave smith mopho is great fun and "relatively" cheap.

hardware is outrageous $

I use to have a microkorg and I don't regret it. I'd consider them like the honda civis of synths - you'll always be able to sell them for about what you paid for them. I've been using mainly VST's but recently I got a chance to play with a moog mother and was really blown away. I do fear that if I buy something like that then I'll enter the modular rabbit hole and have to sell everything.

Also random note, but I picked up a volca sample a few weeks ago for around $90 bucks and it's been an absolute blast to mess around with. I really dig the midi sync with the minilogue.

if you want to get really creative you'll want to set up more of a reverb fx chain than just a reverb vst

distortion into reverb, chorus units, eq before and after, etc

flux ircam is pretty robust, so is 2c aether, and iq-reverb by hofa also has some fun 3d positioning things

completely unrelated but what do you all think of Ableton 10? Your comment reminded me of their new "echo" feature.

they just sound so bad to me. even basic massive patches are more resonant than a microkorg

don't go down the modular path... I lost a friend to a eurorack (kidding... kind of)

sidenote, you know about VCVrack? free open source modular system based on the eurorack. fun to play with. sounds pretty good too

it seems like a solid upgrade. I'm not an ableton guy except for warping difficult samples, but it's nice to see upgrades. also hopeful they fixed the pdc issues

Where do I find free good quality samples?

I personally only know of freesound, but that place doesn't seem to be focusing on music production.

I've definitely played around in VCV and was impressed how great it was for an open source platform.

I wasn't terribly moved by this upgrade. Seems to be mainly cosmetic upgrades and basic things that serums does better lmao

youtube to mp3...

I wish I was joking, but the best samples come from random youtube videos. It'll give you some peace of mind knowing that you (most likely) won't run into samples used by other producers.

(Drum samples are excluded in this - i liked rips of old drum machines personally or live sessions)

Great thread user, thanks for posting.

How did you first get noticed?

Do people come to you for work or do you have to start the process?

How much does good music theory matter vs sound design?

samples as in: drum samples/one shots, or like, full vocals/tracks?

general rule of thumb is: free, good, royalty free
>pick 2

anything free and royalty free is probably trash, for the goods you gotta pay

for one shots, I'd say splice is where I'd start building a collection now

real samples, like from songs, are hard to find, just in general. you can record them yourself, or try to get things cleared through labels to use (but that is difficult)

if you do this you will be in a legal problematic zone and unable to do anything cool with your music --
copyright is a bitch and stifling sometimes, but it is what it is.

for just personal sketches/fun though it's fine. any releases should be cleared

see both, I have consistent clients now and also one off referrals, plus people I find out in the world. you always gotta be hustling, or someone will do it for you

theory is useful to communicate ideas quickly to other musicians and not waste time while writing/recording. time is money. it's not a be all end all though (and I say this as someone with a pretty high level uni theory degree)

most people who get stuck in theory land write absolute garbage music

sound design matters moreso in electronic genres where the music theory is basically i-i-i-bVII-i etc. the interest in the track comes from the sound, not the notes

all that matters less than having good taste. if you know something sounds "good" when you hear it, that's worth more than all knowledge in the world imo

I'm making Angolan kuduro with Soviet influences.
Thinking of throwing a verse in there somewhere. What do you think?
Any opinions regarding the production/arrangement?

clyp.it/qefj2n5p

It’s badly produced. Also it’s not really Soviet influence if you just stole a sample.
I’m not OP.

Thanks for the reply.

I took a couple of years out once I left school before going to uni so I could work to finance my degree and do cool stuff, but now I'm not sure where to go or if I should go at all. I'd like to take a course which is good for high level theory and tech stuff and is really competitive, but it would take me another year to get the maths and physics qualifications to get in.

Would it be better to do a traditional music degree with lots of theory and performance but not much modern music (the stuff I'd like to write for a living) or a tech/production course with very very basic music theory but more focus on mixing and mastering?

Get ignored by producers when I ask, and I don't trust advice from teachers/random internet personalities who have never been successful telling me how to be successful. Did your degree help?

>clyp.it/qefj2n5p
haha, now this is what I wanted from this thread

your sample is very old and needs some brightening up (think harmonic generators, there's no information there for an EQ to raise), and if you want to keep that kick the same it needs to be cleaned up in the low mids. it's very muddy.

you would probably be better served with a different kick, or chopping up the sample once it gets past the intro. it takes up the entire frequency spectrum, so there's just not much you can do from a production angle.

I'd either really cut it to hell and go crazy, or try to find a new sample that's a bit higher quality.

or go full french house and sidechain it even more. you'd want to dip it to basically infinity on each kick for that effect.

ease off on the limiting/distortion too, everything is hyper compressed

curious your thoughts on my group's first music vid. lo fi warbletune

youtube.com/watch?v=0VAHhuSIOdA