What are your thoughts on basic income?

What are your thoughts on basic income?

gibbs me dat

commie pipe dream

While I do think it's filthy socialist bullshit I can't think of a better way to enter the automated future and still use currency. Maybe a mass reduction in population? They all sound like jewish solutions to me though.

I was taught you had to earn your money.

It's slightly left and massively backwards.

It'd be good for me, but unfair for people who actually give a shit about this life.

>Basic income
Literally hyper inflation with imaginary FIAT
Enjoy paying 6 Gazillion shekel for a loave of bread

Better than current welfare system.
Everyone who says
>muh communism
is retarded and does not understand what communism, socialism or capitalism is.

Only if it's about 6k/yr, in the form of matching pay

And if it replaces the standard deduction and personal exemption, and welfare and food stamps, minimum wage, etc

And comes along with a flattening of the tax brackets

Unconditional Basic Income? No.

Make it so that you must be working or doing something for that state check.

There will always be some kind of job which humans can do even if automation becomes huge.

It's something that makes sense for a post-scarcity society, where all jobs required to run society have been fully automated and there's no need for people to continue to work. People can continue to pursue science and art, but won't need to worry themselves with pointless jobs.

However, we don't have that society yet, and for our current society it wouldn't work so well. Furthermore, the more that we go after it in the present will only push the time when it CAN work further and further into the future.

Basically another form of dysgenics. It would be useful only if people earning basic income (=those too dumb to be actually useful members of society) would be sterilized. That only could move the mankind forward. Otherwise this is just a communism, a revolt of the underclass.

Also this.

If it's going to be implemented all other social security needs to be removed.

I don't know that 6k/year is going to be enough though.

Makes total sense
Im also registered Libertarian

That would be some form of negative income tax, not UBI.

killing the niggers, spics, fags, dykes, camelfuckers and kikes isn't left or right, it's forward

a way to give us the crumbs when the era of automation comes, and to avoid violent revolution on our overlords in case of mass unemployment

Awful. Basically the epitome of r-selection.

Resources aren't free.

you know they make poor people spend money on food with foodstamps and don't just give them a check for whatever right?

poor people are notoriously bad with money. hand them a hundred dollar check and they will spend it all on drugs while their kids starve to death.

6k/year is about how much the current welfare system costs per capita, at least in the US, you could replace the welfare with UBI and it would not cost more.

It's a fucking pipe dream.
Until we have population control measures and virtual artificial scarcity already in place, there is no way we can give out money for nothing for any sustainable amount of time and without huge economic fallout.

It's inevitable, really. Further automatization and increasingly capable and intelligent robotics will cause a lot of jobs to simply disappear.

That would be their problem.

Unsurprising, considering that the US libertarian party is a bunch of libs who didn't get the memo about their name and picked a wrong one.

see

Nice rare flags, Anchorage lad.

Im alright with the government giving you enough food for three squares a day. Nothing fancy, just the bare nutrient basics.

No amount of money is enough. People have infinite wants.

If that 6k were in the form of matching pay, you'd have anybody earning 6k already at 12k. And really, they're probably earning more than that.

Plus, there's state, local and charitable welfare. The federal government is not responsible for keeping you alive.

I'm sure the wealthy kike bankers and capitalists in the financial sector are making great contributions to society.

yea but then the libturds would be demanding welfare additionally

>poor people.
>hand them a hundred dollar check and they will spend it all on drugs while their kids starve to death.

I don't know why my sides just died a million deaths.

Also never seen Waddinxveen. Nice

it's complete bullshit but i figured i'd help some people fill out their collection. i feel like a dude catfishing little boys on the internet sometimes

That's a different problem.

You got any sources to back that up, faggot?

>population control measures
We already have it. Whites are not reproducing.

>give everyone a living stipend just for existing
Where would that money come from and how long until it ran out?

What's to keep vendors and corporations from simply jacking up prices since everyone now has money to blow?

What would it do to our already shaky economy?

This would set the precedent that people are entitled to money just because they exist. the money is intended to get you through your life, so it will be argued that some people's lives are harder than others and they need more money to get by.

it will turn into
>I need extra $1000/mo for birth control
>I need extra $1000/mo because of my PTSD I got from the internet
>I need extra $1000/mo because raycism n shieeet

Ay that's alright. I'm glad they also updated it.

investors are very very important for entrepeneurship, yes

Eliminate welfare programs (including health care ect) and replace it with basic income.

You'd save a lot of money and retards who can't manage their money will perish like nature intended

gosh I wish I didn't have to work

I'm fine with basic universal income in exchange for basic universal labor.

>its a communism 2.0 episode

Your definition of 'useful' and 'contributing' are stupid. What are kike financial terrorists like George Soros contributing to society? They are billionaires.

You're a pawn of the wealthy elite trying to demonize poor and suffering people.

We already have it

It's shit, make people entitled, lazy, useless and NEET

ok? leftists will ask for $6k a month. they'd never settle for such a small payout, they want to have enough money from the government to pay for a place and buy all their food. they want the ability to not work

I don't have much of an issue with basic income per se, but if we do it we'd better sure as shit close the borders. Also can't do it on a per person basis, because people would just keep having children they can't support.

Okay thanks.
Fair enough do you believe that they would be able to survive on this?
Agree.

Don't you think there would be mass rioting if people couldn't survive?

How much is state/local welfare compared to federal?

If community pays to it`s members it`s ok. If community is required to pay to xenos - it`s wrong.

Libs literally trying to pull us closer and closer to communism every year.

Only a realistic possibility once we reach a post scarcity society with a nearly fully automated workforce.

How sad, very close-minded and bitter.

Would love it, but do you really believe any parliament will sign a bill that will create millions of bums starving in the cities?

Shits retarded and not sustainable. You see see an eventual economic collapse from a mile away.

Crackpot fucking insanity that must be trampled and destroyed.

do you think soros just woke up magically started geting free money for no reason? you don't think he made wise choices to get him there? should people be killed and their money redistributed as soon as they surpass a certain income?

i wouldn't say no but im just a burden on society

i have a feeling once they give a basic income it would mean that they would add conditions to it over time

and you couldn't turn it away either meaning you become a slave

Well and thats what i fear the most there is no dialog. All i hear is automation+population =UBI. Wheres the debate? Eugenics when?

why would i get any gov help when i dont need it? shouldnt those who are in dire need get more money? i am not an expert but i have some ideas about who should we help, since i have another job i go and elect some representatives every 4 year who decide who gets how much

I make robotic/control systems for a living kek. Make heps of money off contracts with companies automating production lines. I remember back in in we were given lectures about not feeling bad about putting people out of their shitty relative tasks because it means they can do something else less menial. I have personally put around 300 people out of jobs and I kek when I do it.I had one manufacturer that employed 35 people screwaing caps on bottles. I made a machine that worked 20x as fast as all of them for the price of two of their annual salaries.
There fault for not moving into the current year and getting a qualification

Kill all the useless eaters.

Im so sick of this shit. It doesnt matter whether you are for or against this type of thing, its pics like in the OP that make all these debates useless. Everything is framed as a part of the overall progress of mankind, or a human right. That makes it no longer an issue of policy or government action, but a debate over human rights. Which is bullshit, turning every single form of government wellfare into a human rights issues makes the actual effectiveness of a government policy irrelevant when it really is the only thing that matters. Not every policy decision is a question of human rights, and trying to make it so ignores the central issue of whether a change should be made or not. We are not going to legislate ourselves to utopia, if it was possible it would have been done by any other government at any time so stop talking about as if government can magically make society perfect

Jobs for the sake of having jobs is how the USSR and every single commie country went belly up. Endless projects destined for the garbage bin are entirely demotivating and degenerative to employees and work culture.

I'd say double any earnings they make up to the first 6k - turning it into 12k.

The rules for the federal government should be as simple as possible. Of course, everybody has their favorites they want to add. But the states should be the ones making it complicated. The more local, the more responsive they have to be to an imbalanced level of handouts.

So, on top of one very simple federal system, Texas can add 3 extra rules on top, while California will have 3000 extra rules. Can't stop the bureaucratic urge, but maybe you can redirect it to do the least amount of harm.

I'm fine with universal basic income.

As soon as we deport all of the mexicans, get rid of birthright citizenship for illegals (retroactive -- anchor babies and grandchildren have to go back to honduras) and build a wall, and do away with all other welfare programs.

>People don't want to work for a living
Man these people are so closed minded and bitter, wanting gibemedats all the time.

>How much is state/local welfare compared to federal?

Depending on how you count, maybe 2/3rds as much or about the same. A third of it comes from federal taxes, then is disbursed to the states based on population.

Sure I never wanted to work anyway

There has to be some value people can provide. If they refuse to provide that value then they don't get help.

It's not so much that people should just have jobs. Instead they should be forced to provide value if they are being given money to potentially waste and never provide anything themselves.

Anyone working everyday just to get awful NEET tier incomes will have motivation to find something new because they'd be getting paid under what current minimum wage full time is (6k/year)

Universal basic income is a better option than welfare as it is currently practiced in that it does not punish those who are productive nor reward those who are not, rather it provides for all equally, and you are free to be productive and earn beyond that basic income if you so desire.

Eventually we will have to bring about such a system for there simply will not be enough work for all, so what other option is there? Leave them to die?

Great idea. I should get more than all the others though.

"Forward" was the old Progressive and Bolshevik salute. It's the reason the oldest still-running Yiddish language newspaper is called the Jewish Daily Forward.

can I unconditionally refuse to support this

Doom of civilization. If it ever happens, I'm siding with the robots and hope they kill off everyone.

It'd be a reasonable and relatively efficient replacement for the clusterfuck of entitlements we have now, but the Left wouldn't want to remove those entitlements. They'd want to add the UBI on top of them, and then ramp the UBI to the maximum amount possible, and then exclude anyone making over a certain amount from receiving it.

It should really be a tool to consolidate and gradually reduce welfare until it is eliminated altogether.

I like the negative income tax better, serves the same purpose but without the universal part of the basic income.

Value is subjective. I don't see value in 99% of today's entertainment industry and I know many who agree. Yet the market decides entertainers should get massive financial rewards. An actress in a movie gets paid 10, 100, often 1000 times as much for essentially doing a high budget school play as the guy working special effects, who spent years of real effort in tech education.

Could be a thing once a majority of jobs are automated and the only jobs available are Scientists, Engineers, and IT guys, but even then that would still require the extinction of Service jobs which won't happen for a long time.

Even then, it would cause stagnation in technological advances more than likely, so we need to be sure we're happy with where we are when/if we install it.

Either way, it won't (or atleast shouldn't) happen within the next 50 years.

>hurr durr we need to import 3rd worlders to pay for our pensions and welfare and shiet
>hurr durr we need UBI because robots will be doing all the work
Make up your damn mind because this contradictory propaganda is driving me batty.

>What are your thoughts on basic income?
Completely unaffordable.

Will cause the collapse of the government, the economy and society.

Anyone who supports it should be sterilized for the good of humanity.

The Service industry will be the 1st to go once automation starts and autistic millennials who'd rather punch buttons than talk to strangers take over the reigns.

Good idea. Most people will not be cognitively capable of socially useful labor in the future, and the economy has to be kept going somehow.

This. Morality and values has no place in economics, except insofar as it influences demand. Economic value is determined by supply and demand, not by what sounds nice and feels good.

We may think that being a teacher is far more important to society than being an actress, but the reality is that there are millions of people who can teach, and only a few who can act for shit, and even less openings in large movies for said actors, so supply and demand dictates that the latter is paid far more.

Trying to reverse that only disrupts the economy and fucks things up. You can't change the real economic value through legislation.

In the US that was implemented as the Earned Income Credit. It's almost like matching pay, but hard to calculate. And, it's on top of everything else.

Somebody needs to promote "taking out the trash" for the current tax and welfare code. Just start again, but this time, the whole set of rules has to be knowable. So anyone voting to make it more complicated should have to recite their new version, in detail, from memory.

Well value is always set by the market. It's still better off having them contribute something than nothing and it would prevent mass rioting from people who can't afford to survive.

Also
> 50 years
Compare the year 1966 to The Current Year in terms of tech and jobs available

kike scam.

Price is set by the market. Value is set by the individual.

Its a good idea, but im afraid that liberals will take control of the program and try to use it for social engineering purposes.

Just another way to invite shitskins into good countries and ruin them. Then there will be no income for anyone.

Individuals make up the market.

I'd trade it for our current welfare system and I'm a trump supporter

lefties actually think people would do more than turning into state paid porch monkeys if they don't have to work and be productive. people who are creative and want to do their own shit will find a way without it.

it'll be needed when our wonderful robot overlords take over.

If humans were inherently honorable then it would work, but in real life it will end with way less productivity, and incredible inflation. Those with the means of production would become masters even more than they are now, and those dependent on the income would be serfs or at the very least mindless supporters of the state.

It will be a good idea when machines eventually replace most manual labor, but that's a while away. It would also be a good idea when humans stabilize at lower population levels, but there are active movements against that now.

sure instead of welfare of any kind, sounds more fair than what we have now.

I think it works

Sounds like a plan. Tax code is a disaster over here as well. Pay 52% for over €50.000 over here, no idea where they actually spend those billions on.

So? You can get an average of individual's demands but it's a lossy average.