Protestant here
Can you catholic and orthodox bastards please explain how Mary remained a virgin, despite it clearly saying in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts and Galatians that Jesus had brothers and sisters?
What proof do you have that they are Joseph's from another marriage?
What proof do you have that Joseph was married once before Mary?
Why is it so terrible to think Mary had relations with her husband after Jesus was born?
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>despite it clearly saying in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts and Galatians that Jesus had brothers and sisters?
[citation needed]
Matthew 12:46
>While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.
Matthew 12:47
>Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
Matthew 13:55
>“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?
Mark 3:31
>Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.
Mark 3:32
>A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
Luke 8:19
>Now Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd.
Luke 8:20
>Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you.”
John 2:12
>After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.
Acts 1:14
>They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
Galatians 1:19
>I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother.
bump because catholics BTFO
Ssh, they need her to be perpetually virgin to suit the pagan origins from which their worship of her is derived.
Woah one of my countrymen not shitposting
Good work
Demolished
BTFO
catholicucks BTFO
Romanists proving how ignorant they are of scripture.
>Protestant Mistranslation
Huh really makes you think.
His "Brothers" are just his deciples.
Argie Protestant here. Can Americans tell me their views on Baptists?
Fight the good fight, brother.
Obviously refers to the apostles.
>I don't have an argument and I'll make a meme instead
Adopted.
There was no word for "cousin" in Aramaic. If one wanted to refer to the cousin relationship, one has to use a circumlocution such as “the son of his uncle” (brona d-`ammeh). This often is too much trouble, so broader kinship terms are used that don’t mean “cousin” in particular; e.g.,ahyana("kinsman"),qariwa("close relation"), ornasha("relative"). One such term isaha, which literally means “brother” but is also frequently used in the sense of “relative, kinsman.”
I think the orthodox believe they are Joseph's kids from a previous marriage.
I'm not trying to BTFO, but I just don't understand how they can call us heretics over something straight up in writing.
A lot of the shit the Orthodox and Catholics believe and practice are not in the Bible at all.
If they're the early writers of the Bible, why didn't they include it in the Bible?
It just doesn't seem herectical for Mary to have relations with her husband AFTER Jesus was born.
If anything seems Herectical its how they raise Mary up to the level of God and call her Queen of Heaven, and pray to her and the saints instead of God alone.
It seems like the Catholics trades their Roman plethora of gods in for a plethora of saints.
The "Eternal Virgin" theory emerged much later when there were many Christian churches and the Roman Catholic church was trying to get a monopoly. To discount any kin they could then discount the early Christian jews, some who had a claim of being of Jesus's bloodline.
why do you half-christians are so obsessed with small details and don't look at the big picture?
She was declared virgin because of some political reasons, I don't feel hurt by this, I pray the Holy Virgin Mary and I will pray her even is she was not virgin.
She is the mother of Jesus and she is in paradise watching and caring for us.
It would make a lot more sense for them to actually be his brothers though.
Why would Joseph not tap that after Jesus was born?
Are there any Scriptures that allude to this interpretation being correct?
In Old Testament Law, adopted siblings/step-siblings/whatever, counted as full-blooded siblings.
Baptist are the worst. Literally no fun allowed. No drinking, smoking, gambling, or dancing. Now these this aren't great for you but at least there isn't a ban on them in Catholocism. Also they will tell you to your face with a smile that you will go to hell. Fucking cringey fuckers.
>Praying to Mary
But that's not how it works
Sure why not, you don't seem like someone willing to change his point of view, so while fight it? If you really want to I encourage you to look up for differences in Bible's translation and why the word "brother" was chosen when translating.
The answer is literally here:
catholic.com
>The first thing to understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.
>Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:
>“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).
>Because of the Bible’s broad semantic range of “brother,” we can rest assured that although St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred…brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), we need not infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children!
>These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).
And more in the link.
Happy to help, OP.
No, because Jesus was with his disciples when the people told him his mother and brothers were at the gate looking for him.
user, they aren't allowed to read the Bible. Only priests are holy enough to interpret the holy book!
You kinda do. You pray and ask her to ask Jesus to help you. She can't do anything by herself but she can ask her son to help you.
I ask because being protestant here make people confuse. Most are catholics and they think I'm baptist... Basically Protestant = Baptist. Catholics say to me that most Americans are from that religion.
Then why don't you just pray to Jesus?
...
I can see how is wrong to elevate Mary to a goddess level, and I'm against such practices in the later Church, but still there is some level of spiritual importance to her in the hierarchy. And she is also a great example for most women, and I believe that nowadays that's what people need the most.
>any scriptures allude to this interpretation being correct
I'm fairly certain Acts 1:14, which he quoted, refers to Pentecost. Where the remaining apostles prayed with marry after Jesus died and the Holy Spirit came to them and allowed them to speak in many languages. Unless Jesus was related to every fucking apostle, he had no brothers.
Because she's the one you talk to when Jesus is mad at your dumb ass. Jesus is our brother and Mary is our mother. So when your brother is angry with you who do you ask to moderate? Your mother.
Making rational conclusions like that is irrelevant. Catholic and orthodox dogmas have evolved over the past 2000 years to establish certain principles to create specific conclusions, and oftentimes logic thrown out the window to establish said principles. See , which you replied to. The idea of Papal infallibility, for instance, validates Marian freedom of sin and virginity. Logic is irrelevant, since all you need is faith in Church dogma. It's literally the epitome of Christian thinking.
We do. We also ask for the saints to pray for us just as we would a living faithful. The church transcends life and death, the communion of saints being the church triumphant.
It haves something to do with how she asked him to turn water into wine. Supposedly, you are asking for God's merciful side through her.
> Because she's the one you talk to when Jesus is mad at your dumb ass. Jesus is our brother and Mary is our mother. So when your brother is angry with you who do you ask to moderate? Your mother.
Retard theology
> Logic is irrelevant, since all you need is faith in Church dogma. It's literally the epitome of Christian thinking.
Exactly. Romanism is circular logic.
After making things up as they go and contradicting the same scriptures that interpret to derive their authority from they then go on to say well tradition trumps scripture.
Why would you and catholics and orthodox pray to Mary?
That seems like heresy.
Sure, she was special, but that'd be like praying to Moses, or Peter or the saints?
Why do you people pray to saints?
Have no gods before me.
No one comes to the Father except through me/The Son.
You should be either praying to God alone, to Jesus to God, to God and Jesus, or God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Praying to the saints for different abilities and gimmicks seems no different that praying to roman gods for different things like June for Marriage or Mars for war.
You guys even have patron saints, just like the greeks and romans had patron gods of temples and cities.
>Tips fedora
I don't know if most Americans are baptist or not. I know it's mostly Protestant. Some Protestants are better than other. Methodist and Lutherins are pretty chill but in America Calvinist, Mormans and Baptist are the worst. They take everything in the Bible literally and will always try to pick fights if they find out your Catholic.
Why not just ask all-powerful Jesus himself?
That passage in Acts seems to refer (equally as validly) to Jesus' family who were with the Apostles in Jerusalem.
It work for me. I pray her more than Jesus.
If I have a minor request or doubt, I ask to the relevant saint in charge of the office.
I pray Saint Rose when I have to pass a school exam, and Saint Antony if my dog is ill. Why should I bother Jesus with these stupid things.
Why pray to a dead person? Who is physically dead.
God is omniscient. This happens when pagan thought infiltrates Christianity. Yahweh is not on par with whatever pagan conception of god you have in your mind. He can do all.
But it isn't just Catholicism, its the entirety of Christian thought. Protestantism is exactly the same, but it derives its conclusions strictly from scripture as opposed to the nebulous tradition of the Papists. Logic isn't required to back up those assertions, since all you need is faith in what scripture establishes.
> . They take everything in the Bible literally and will always try to pick fights if they find out your Catholic.
You are a moronic liberal I see
Damnit you guys are retarded
You are asked to pray to God for all your problems
Key word >before
We do not elevate saints above God but understand that they are closer to him then we so we ask for their guidance and intercession.
I agree. Your denomination? But Christian faith isn't entirely fidestic.
Closer to him? I guess if you are a Roman Catholic and ergo not Christian nor saved you aren't close to God. Why bother talking to the dead. You're still going to Hell. Why not just go to God.
>Thinking that cucklics care about logic
whew lad there's your problem.
Then what kind of Protestants Americans are? I though you guys were Lutherans.
Most are just Evangelical.
The biggest groups are Baptist, Lutherans and Methodist.
And down there is Episcopalians and Presbyterians.
The Bible is not all literal. There is a great deal of myth and symbolism. If you literally believe that God created everything in 7 days and that Moses put 2 of every animal on a boat then your are the moron.
That picture is based off Catholic imagery
His "family" were the apostles and all of us. Like a spiritual family, or like how niggers call each other brothas. We're family too, a shitposting family.
I'm Catholic, but I don't practice the religious aspect of the religion much, as a result of the previous points I've made. I've been drifting away from the Church over the course of 10 years now, but I still identify as Catholic because the theological and doctrinal aspects have always been of interest to me from an anthropological standpoint. You?
This is what I'm talking about and why I'm protestant
You people play a ridiculous game of telephone
You have to ask a preist to hear your sins in a box
You pray to Mary to ask Jesus who asks God
You pray to saints who "preside" over different aspects of life like traveling, marriage, family, gifts.
Isn't the greatest thing about Jesus that you just had to have the faith?
Last time I checked, God was Almighty, Infallible, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent.
Do you Catholics believe God can't hear and fulfill all your prayers alone?
And what about his thousands of angels?
Can't God send his angels instead of giving dominion to saints?
> If you literally believe that God created everything in 7 days and that Moses put 2 of every animal on a boat then your are the moron.
You're a liberal who picks and chooses what he likes
Anglican. But Calvinist in my soteriology.
I agree in sentiment with your post, but I'm not getting the same reading as you from Acts 1.
Nice quads
>logic
This, exactly. Faith and logic are on different plane of existence. They are both real but follow different laws.
Show some respect. Disgusting language.
That's interesting. How exactly do you rationalize predestination, given that humans have free will? I ask this legitimately as I've always read about it but never spoken to a person who actually espoused it as part of their belief system.
You may not have caught I said Moses had an arc. I have literally met Protestants who believe Moses built the arc. Explain to me how God created everything in 7 days yet we have scientific evidence relating to the creation of earth and evaluation?
We're all family familia f a m. I do see where the interpretation could be wierd. I feel like it makes more sense in Greek or Latin, but the best way we can put it in english is by using brother. Not in the biological sense, but kinda like a band of brothers sort of sense.
Mary is the Ark of the Covenant.
Flip here. We pray for the holy trinity at most times. That includes God, Jesus, and the holy spirit.
Though most of my people back in Flipland consider the holy spirit as Mary and Joseph. Don't know why.
Is Christ-Chan Baptist? Aren't all of thoses groups Evangelical?
I think you may be conflating two different senses of the word 'brother', but I don't think we're going to come to an agreement at any rate. Agree to disagree? :^)
Christ Chan is Catholic.
The Mary-worshipers make up bullshit to explain it away.
"Brothers" are actually "spiritual brothers" and "Sisters" are actually Jesus's female cousins or some shit..
Christ-chan is usually depicted as a fundamentalist Protestant - not necessarily referring to any denomination in particular. I have seen Catholic drawings of her though.
Christ-Chan is completely non-denominational
((Symbolism)) yea more people should look into that.
American, every single time.
The so called brothers weee not literal brothers which you would know had you ever actually studied the texts and culture.
On the cross Jesus handed Mary to John and said "Behold your mother." Mary wasn't John's mother, but the act of entrusting these two to each other as if they were mother and son underlines Mary had no other children.
Only religious illiterates and arrogant heretics keep peddling their falsehoods on this topic,
There are over 10,000 different Christian denominations operating in the US.
Do Protestants not understand that Mary is literally the Mother Of God? Mary carried Jesus within her and birthed him.m, and then she had to give him up for our conversion and forgiveness by his death. Protestants just shit on Mary and do not seem to care what she did for us.
>believing god had a son
>not itself pagan thought
The Lord is our God. The Lord is One.
>Can you catholic and orthodox bastards please explain how Mary remained a virgin, despite it clearly saying in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts and Galatians that Jesus had brothers and sisters?
Sure thing brah
>Christ, ..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39).
-Martin Luther
Let me guess... "There is no God but God and Muhammad is his prophet", right?
>Episcopalian
Wherever there are three Episcopalians, there's a fifth. ;)
But wich one is the most popular or official?
>so called brothers
They call them out by name dumbass.
>"Is this not the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Aren’t all His sisters with us as well?"
>The Lord is our God. The Lord is One.
I never got that, if he is one entity? Then why is he represented as three things? And it appears that three parts of the trinity can act apart from another.
I thought Catholics were the big drinkers. Most of the Catholics I know like to imbibe.
Why do you keep changing the subject though?
The only one you should pray to is God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
That's it. Trying to say you should pray to saints because they are closer to God is no better then ancestor worship.
What does adelphos mean?
She does have the cross on her neck but never seen her wearing rosary beads. Could agree she depicts Christianity as a whole.
No one is trying to shit on Mary.
Mary would still be considered a Holy figure if she had other children.
I believe Mary was a virgin and Jesus was conceived immaculately, but why would she not have relations with her husband afterwards, whats so horrible about Mary not remaining a virgin? She was married, so whats the problem?
The church is transcendent. You ask your priest or minister for guidance occasionally right? The saints and Mary do the same.
Yeah, I agree. It's best if she doesn't prescribe to any one denomination anyway desu
We don't wear the Rosary, at least not in America.
You don't pray TO the saints you pray THROUGH the saints. Just like you pray through Mary.
Have you read the Bible, good sir? How often is Mary even mentioned? She's a part player, almost a cameo appearance.
If she was so important, she would be extensively covered throughout the NT. (And Jesus himself wouldn't be so dismissive of her.)
Those who die in Christ live in Christ, we ask for their prayers as you would ask your living brethren. Although no devotion should take precedence over Christ.
I'm not a Christcuck but wow.
virgin mary is a mistranslation from greek
you fags will believe anything.
Protestants play the same game of telephone asking one another to pray for each other, there's nothing wrong with it. God delights in everyone helping and participating in salvation.
She is the main character of the beginning of each Gospel. She convicted Jesus to use his powers for the first time to change water to wine. She buries him after he is crucified.