>Kurt Cobain was extremely competitive and invested in maintaining his status as the biggest and most hip rockstar around >Oasis almost immediately redefined what a "cool" rock band was supposed to look and sound like, crippling grunge's already declining momentum and setting the course for a return to a more European sensibility in 1990s popular music >Kurt Cobain could never entirely decide whether he would rather enjoy commercial success or artistic credibility, on one hand gladly posing on pop magazine covers and playing MTV-exclusive shows while at the same time desperately gesturing towards the rock underground(working with Steve Albini and William Burroughs, releasing split singles with The Jesus Lizard, taking the Melvins and Boredoms on tour as openers etc.) >Oasis openly lusted after the idea of being an inescapable commercial juggernaut on par with the Beatles or the Stones >Kurt Cobain was weedy, effete and insecure >Oasis were loud, aggressive and arrogant >Kurt Cobain was highly prone to indulging in petty rivalries and insulting anyone he disliked in the press, his feud with Axl Rose in particular becoming a major piece of 90's pop trivia >Oasis were highly prone to indulging in petty rivalries and insulting anyone they disliked in the press, their feud with Blur in particular becoming a major piece of 90's pop trivia >Kurt Cobain responded to his trauma by recording songs like Drain You, Milk It and You Know You're Right >the Gallaghers responded to their trauma by recording songs like Bring It On Down, Cast No Shadow and Fade Away >Kurt Cobain eagerly embraced and amplified his public persona of a "tortured artist" >Oasis were open about appreciating Nirvana on a musical level but having a strong distaste for the over-the-top pessimism of both Nirvana and grunge in general
They would have fucking hated each other, wouldn't they?
>>Kurt Cobain was extremely competitive and invested in maintaining his status as the biggest and most hip rockstar around Stopped reading right there
Henry Ramirez
>>Oasis almost immediately redefined what a "cool" rock band was supposed to look and sound like, crippling grunge's already declining momentum and setting the course for a return to a more European sensibility in 1990s popular music
oasis didn't really do that alone, there was already a strong push by the music press in the UK to kick grunge out on its arse well before supersonic came out oasis were just the band that finally delivered the goods
nah hes right the more you read about cobain the more you realize that literally everything he said and did was primarily a career move dude was morally bankrupt and he knew it probably played a part in why he offed himself
Alexander Gomez
Oasis sucks anyway.
Brandon Edwards
>nah hes right [citation needed]
Michael Kelly
Kurt making nevermind for one and essentially selling out
Ryan Campbell
Yippee we're not going to live forever! Thank you God.
Grayson Phillips
>Kurt making nevermind for one What about it? It's fine, it's just an album. >essentially selling out Except he disowned it when it became popular, and intentionally made the following album more aggressive/non-commercial
Joshua Smith
Oasis didnt redefine or cripple anything. They were a highly derivative band who had some decent tunes. Beloved by poms but lasting influence is minimal.
Hunter Powell
>lasting influence is minimal. Oh is that why wer'e still discussing them 20 years later
Nah you're a fucking idiot
Kevin Sanchez
t. someone born in 2001 oasis' cultural impact at the time was massive and obvious, though like grunge's cultural impact in the early 90s it was also tied into a wider cultural shift in general, a shift that went beyond just mainstream rock music they absolutely did make nirvana/grunge sound as dated and silly as nirvana/grunge made GNR sound when nevermind hit
Colton Wright
>Except he disowned it when it became popular, and intentionally made the following album more aggressive/non-commercial
>implying that couldn't have been an strategy to build his public eye persona to begin with
Carson Parker
>implying that couldn't have been an strategy Prove it.
Brandon Young
>>implying that couldn't have been an strategy to build his public eye persona to begin with What would be the purpose of that? If anything, it'd hinder sales.
Blake Brooks
>extremely competitive and invested I don't think that's true at all. Where do you get this >never entirely decide you're mistaking things he pretty much had to do for his job as a major label recording artist as things he wanted to do. >petty rivalries calling out Axl on his sexism, racism and rock star bullshit was legit. Name a real 'petty rivalry'
inb4 'dickriding fanboy', I just don't think OP has a clue what he's talking about here, or is stretching shit to make a stupid point.
And, as someone old enough to remember the 90s, Oasis felt pretty forced at the time in America. DJs and the press loved them, and people kind of like their songs but no one (or at least not one single person I knew) was super into them
Levi Miller
>calling out Axl on his sexism, racism and rock star bullshit was legit. Name a real 'petty rivalry' >implying that's so brave and bold Go back to redit you cock licking faggot.
Juan Nelson
>calling out Axl on his sexism, racism and rock star bullshit was legit. Name a real 'petty rivalry'
his shitting on axl rose had as much to do with him recognizing many of his own characteristics and ambitions in rose as it did with him finding rose to be a genuinely vile human being
and like i remember someone on this board saying re: the nirvana/GNR feud some time ago, the biggest band of 1991 really couldn't allow themselves to be seen as approving of the biggest band of 1987 there was just way too much contrast there in every way
>Name a real 'petty rivalry'
didn't he smear pearl jam as hair metal bandwagoners despite most of the members of pearl jam actually having had longer and more legit ties to the seattle grunge/punk scene than he did? and him shitting on alice in chains in the press while being perfectly happy to do smack with them backstage at music festivals is public knowledge IIRC
>DJs and the press loved them, and people kind of like their songs but no one (or at least not one single person I knew) was super into them
the funny thing about oasis is that while their rise to superstardom in the UK and europe happened practically overnight, they spent a surprising amount of time in the US as a band enjoyed foremost by the "alternative" college rock audience like you'd hear supersonic or acquiesce on college radio in between pavement and the afghan whigs and be like "yeah, sure", there was nothing weird about hearing oasis in that context at all
they didn't make it huge in america until wonderwall and champagne supernova
Christopher Russell
>genuinely vile human being Which is?
Liam Ortiz
>calling out Axl on his sexism, racism and rock star bullshit was legit. Name a real 'petty rivalry'
that soy
Alexander Bennett
In one of the documentaries about nirvana although he still kept true to his artistic sensibilities he also had ambitions of being more than just a local punk band. Also he accepted a part in pulp fiction
Thomas Watson
>him recognizing many of his own characteristics and ambitions nice armchair psychiatry there, sigmund
It was more that GnR was everything the alternative scene was against - the make up, the rock star demeanor, the major label / radio playlist / ticketmaster corporate aspect to rock, and the whole machismo and sexism GnR particularly represented. Yeah it's pretty much required for artists to speak out on that shit today, but when Cobain did it, it wasn't something you saw much in mainstream media.
As someone who was part of the grunge scene (I lived in Seattle area in the late 80s and 90's and saw a lot of the bands at smaller venues) trust me, a lot of grunge scenesters ripped on Pearl Jam when they made it big. Alice In Chains too, because they started out as a hair metal band. The bassist for Soundgarden refferred to them as "Girl Jam' and laughed one time to me. But if it was a rivalry at all, it was a friendly one, not some petty media one (altough of course thats what sells, so of course it would be presented that way)
>Oasis in America heh, my gf just asked what I was doing - 'Arguing about music online again?" and I said yeah, something about the Oasis / Nirvana 'feud' and she says "Man, I hated Oasis when they came out' which wasn't an uncommon sentiment. There's a certain amount of airplay that just makes a song likable just because it's so familiar and Champagne Supernova and Wonderwall reached that years and years ago
Juan Torres
>calling out Axl on his sexism, racism and rock star bullshit was legit. Name a real 'petty rivalry' He hated axl way before axls song about immigrants or his comments about him or his wife, calling him the personification of everything he hated about rock music. Axl was a fan of Kurt and even had on nirvana merch in a music video. Kurt stated the rivalry because of petty reasons
Charles Perez
when I think of 'petty' I think of things like wearing the same dress to an awards show, or a catty comment on style, or dropping an album on the same day.
If you view someone as the personification of eveything you disagree with isn't petty, thats a legit reason to call someone out
Tyler Sanchez
>If you view someone as the personification of eveything you disagree with isn't petty
If Axl Rose is the personification of everything you disagree than you are a petty motherfucker.
Jose Gomez
The "personification of everything kurt disagreed with" just revolved around axls "macho" sensibilities and the Music he made being "dumb" or "commercial" which is really just kurt being upset at glam metal and its hypermasculinity but decided to point the finger at its most prominent figure. Btw this was before any interactions between the two of them, kurt had no idea how axl acted or behaves outside his music.
Kurt was petty, this rivalry was petty up until the point axl threatened him and his wife but even then you could say kurt instigated that reaction
Michael Gonzalez
>It was more that GnR was everything the alternative scene was against - the make up, the rock star demeanor, the major label / radio playlist / ticketmaster corporate aspect to rock, and the whole machismo and sexism GnR particularly represented.
of course it was also all these things but that said, metallica represented many of the same things GNR did and that didn't stop cobain from being (a very low-key, very self-conscious of metallica's "uncool" status) metallica fan kurt cobain, on some level, desperately wanted to be axl rose also vice versa, as IIRC rose even admitted to at one point
>heh, my gf just asked what I was doing - 'Arguing about music online again?" and I said yeah, something about the Oasis / Nirvana 'feud' and she says "Man, I hated Oasis when they came out' which wasn't an uncommon sentiment.
and i know people who loved oasis so much that they followed them around and saw a bunch of their gigs on the very first US tour they ever did, so what oasis did appeal much more to the anglophile crowd (or what the OP referred to as a european sensibility) than to the grunge kids though the people who bought the early oasis singles were the same people who bought my bloody valentine and primal scream singles
Chase Hughes
>Kurt Cobain "OPEN WOUND FULL OF PUS I'M MIXING EIGHTIES INDIE ROCK WITH PUNK" >Oasis "Show us ya minge, go on then"
Carter Watson
It is. Were talking about them in the context i described. Or maybe you can point to some bands or a movement of a decent calibre that wouldnt be here without them?
Camden Williams
They did not displace anyone. Big in britain. Smiths plus beetles.
Evan Smith
Noel likes Nirvana.
Nathan Kelly
/r/ing beta cobain & chad liam pic
Nathan Phillips
>As someone who was part of the grunge scene (I lived in Seattle area in the late 80s and 90's and saw a lot of the bands at smaller venues) trust me, a lot of grunge scenesters ripped on Pearl Jam when they made it big. Alice In Chains too, because they started out as a hair metal band. The bassist for Soundgarden refferred to them as "Girl Jam' and laughed one time to me. I would have thought that was because a lot of Pearl Jam's fans were female.
Connor Murphy
This
Colton Rogers
The truth is that Cobain really badly wanted to be a rock star and make himself and his Seattle buddies the center of attention rather than the LA pop metal scene. He worked hard to get it, but when he got there, he realized that being a rock star wasn't all it cracked up to be, in fact it kind of sucks and he finally spilled his spaghetti and offed himself.
Carson Ortiz
would someone who lived through both Oasis and The Beatles hey days describe them as equal, let alone Oasis bigger? That would be so different from America
Or is it just that Britain is so into fads, that every one is huge? Thats kinda the sense I get from across the pond
we have different definitions of petty, I guess.
btw ' most prominent' is pretty much what people mean by 'the personification'
still trying to be Freud. How do you know what he wanted? Personally, I don't think Cobain ever wanted to be Axl level of famous, I think he was going more for (late 80s) Thurston Moore / Henry Rollins level of success
Cameron Lopez
go shoot heroin in the dick, cunt
Benjamin Collins
Again, quit with the armchair psychiatry - you don't (and can't) know the truth of what he wanted.
Yes, he and the grunge scene and Seattle hated LA, but part of what they hated was the media and corporate bullshit that went with it. They surely were not trying to steal it.
They were small bands just trying to make it, and when they started attention was a novelty - I remember a whole article in a Seattle zine gushing about how Touch Me I'm Sick got a great write up in NME, no one had any conception that that would become all the media attention they ended up getting. They just wanted to be successful in the alternative scene, not the mainstream, despite the jokes and the Sub Pop 'World Domination' shit (which was funny because it was absurd, not a challenge to Warner Brothers or DCG, like your narrative would have it)
There was a building reaction against the slick 80s aesthetic as the decade drew to a close, in fact Lenny Kravitz was one of the spearheads of the movement by adopting oldskool 60s production and equipment.
The 90s would see a big 60s revivalist movement, there was a resurgence of blues/psych rock and jam bands.
Cameron Richardson
Get the feeling theyre always looking for something to restore the prestige of a lost empire. In the case by dominating the us through music. This thread trying to claim there was any sort of parity between britrock and seattle rustles me a bit. I just dont see it.
Zachary Harris
It was not. The optimism of Britpop was a reaction against the whiny, self-hating grunge sound. It had to do with the cultural atmosphere in the US and Britain in the early 90s. There was a recession and feeling of let-down once the Cold War was over (cool, we beat the Russians and...now what?).
The atmosphere in Europe in the 90s was one of optimism; there was this immense relief that the terror of nuclear war and Soviet invasion was over, so it was the era of Britpop and huge EDM rave parties.
Elijah Ortiz
>Americans want grungy people, stabbing themselves in the head on stage. They get a bright bunch like us, with deodorant on, they don't get it.
What could he have possibly meant by this?
Jeremiah Taylor
>deodorant >no tweezers for his eyebrows
Grayson Diaz
GALLAGHERED
Julian Sullivan
Nirvana would've probably liked Oasis.
Cooper Clark
POTATOED
Connor Allen
Liam got on with Dave so generally fuck knows
Robert Rodriguez
Lol, did he name his daughter after Black Francis?
Liam Rogers
>Oasis and their scummy chav fans >deodorant ...
Jonathan Gonzalez
>sexism
Axl had long hair and short shorts and a police cap and was more of a man than you
Joshua Parker
Dave was the most normie of the trio.
Xavier Thomas
no frances farmer and frances mckee from the vaselines. cool trivia...if it was a boy they were going to name it Eugene.
Liam Baker
He signed and wrote nevermind because sonic youth was signing to a major at the time. He was following the footsteps of what he idolized and his image, perception, and sanity were scaved and raped in the process
Jaxson Walker
If Dave had died Kurt and Liam would have got on really well
Lucas Parker
>If it was a boy they were going to name it Eugene.
Why?
Angel Murphy
Also remember that Tarantino wasn’t nearly as big then as he is today
Luis Garcia
bump
Oliver Morgan
>movement of a decent calibre Define this and I will
Hudson Smith
>sets out to create a commercially viable album >'disowns it ' after the fact.
Yeah sorry man. You know it's totally ok not to give into rockism. It's almost ironically beautiful to accept that some of our hero's are just as human as you or I working a 9 to 5.
Embrace it brah!
Ethan Brooks
Not after it had already sold mountains of copies. Get real.
Kayden Johnson
Hell, when Nirvana was a band tribal tattoos were something edgy alternative kids got, chads didn't even have a conception of them.
Be careful when judging or making assumptions, a lot was totally different back then
Aaron Bell
>>sets out to create a commercially viable album [citation needed]
>rockism Is there a reason you sued this term incorrectly? He was backpedaling before 1992 even rolled around. Get real.
Kayden Flores
God Sup Forums gets retarded at the mention of Kurt C.
Connor Evans
>waaahh i don' wanna be successful at my craft, make loads of money and have bitches on my dick
This is part of the reason why I love Hip-hop, they never seem to fall for this pretentious bullshit. Success isn't evil in and of itself.
Christopher Taylor
>[citation needed] The album itself, dumbass
Nolan Harris
>The album itself is what he set out to make No
Try again
Jonathan Williams
name dropping car brands in every song, name dropping clothing brands in every song
Luis Diaz
AS YOU AS YOU AS YOU FUCKING WERE
LG X
Austin Moore
>he offed himself stopped reading right there
Nolan Gray
g2b Tom
Xavier Murphy
>name dropping car brands in every song, name dropping clothing brands in every song >continuing a long, long tradition in hip-hop And your problem is..?
Oasis is wayyyyy fucking better than Nirvana. Nirvana has 1 9/10 album (In Utero) and Oasis has two
Chase Gonzalez
Dude, if you want "art," go listen to Kanye. Or Yoko. Whichever.
Gabriel Cook
christ
Dylan Baker
DIAMINDS NIGGA FUK SHIT NIGGA
GUCCI NIGGA FUK NIGGA FUK ROLLS ROYCE NIGGA
BENTLEY NIGGA FUK FUK SHIT
Adrian King
>They would have fucking hated each other The Gallaghers didn't like anybody during the 90s. Noel is only just recently starting to develop the capacity to feel positive about things.
Parker Carter
She preferred britpop and other alternative sounds from the 90's like Mercury Rev to her dad's music btw.
Lincoln Johnson
I don't blame her. To her, her dad wasn't the Kurt Cobain who everyone else was infatuated with. He was just a dude who was never there for her growing up.
Evan Thomas
Women like softer-sounding music and aren't as big on hard rock. Whaddya want?
Charles Jackson
Reading into the Axl/Kurt feud I don't know why anyone would side with Kurt. Axl was a big fan of nirvana and even invited them on tour, and Kurt just shits all over him for no reason. And Axl being a very volatile and sensitive guy, took it to heart and lashed out.
And if he did it because muh racism and homophobia then he missed the point of the song One in a Million. And if it was muh corporate rock thing he's a hypocrite because Aerosmith is in his favourite albums list.
Henry Torres
>And if it was muh corporate rock thing he's a hypocrite because Aerosmith is in his favourite albums list. Aerosmith weren't corporate rock in the 70s, which is the only era of the band anyone actually cares about anyway.
>tfw I started the Oasis-pill in the first place all those years ago
Glad to see it finally caught on lads
Jordan Cruz
Eddie Van Halen wanted to jam backstage with Kurt as well, but he told him to eat shit.
Luke Reyes
>this is part of why I love hip-hop, they love being tools for selling shit to spoiled white teenagers ftfy
Leo Ross
>It was more that GnR was everything the alternative scene was against - the make up, the rock star demeanor, the major label / radio playlist / ticketmaster corporate aspect to rock, and the whole machismo and sexism GnR particularly represented. Yeah it's pretty much required for artists to speak out on that shit today, but when Cobain did it, it wasn't something you saw much in mainstream media.
GN'R didn't really do the make-up shit, not any time after AFD was released anyway, only in their early days on the sunset strip.
And hating on them for being 'corporate' and 'mainstream'? Nirvana was exactly that in 1991.
Makes sense he was such a poser, he was basically still just a kid at 23/24 when they hit big.
Asher Collins
And how were GN'R more corporate than Aerosmith? They weren't put together by some record label and they wrote their own music
Hunter Mitchell
>whats it gotta do with you ya cheeky bitch lol holy fuck
Anthony Bell
>Makes sense he was such a poser, he was basically still just a kid at 23/24 when they hit big.
^This. People like to create this myth that Cobain was some kind of tortured poet-genius/his generation's Bob Dylan or something. The truth is that he was an edgy, immature little shithead who wanted desperately to preserve his indie cred which is why he refused to hang out with EVH (too embarrassed to admit that Van Halen were the first band he ever saw live).
It's no different than Metallica shitting on hair metal back in the day, while now that James Hetfield has grown the fuck up and admitted that they were alright guys after all and thrash metal wouldn't have happened without them. If Kurt had lived to see middle age, he might have also made peace with some of his enemies.
Jack Mitchell
Reporter: Some people are saying you've got an arrogant attitude Liam: Well I have *grabs mic*
