Arrival

Just watched this. Mad as fuck desu.

You cannot honestly say that this was good but Interstellar was bad.

They were both good and bad for EXACTLY the same reasons:
>Really good visuals, soundwork etc. Solid craftsmanship.
>Interesting plot-ideas and fun to watch, clean scenes in the style of the old masters of scifi. Some problems with accuracy but not nearly enough to actually be annoying
>Decent characters. Not the focus of the movie, and rightfully so for scifi.

And then they just throw it all to hell in the last scenes turning this movie (AGAIN) from a solid 10/10 into a 5 or some shit.
For interstellar it was "Love is what holds the universe together" and for this its "Language is the key to time travel". Why?? Why the hell would you do that? You have a perfectly fine movie and then you turn everything to shit because you make it about time travel which completely invalidates everything that happened before. Nothing makes sense and the entire movie becomes a giant plothole because of it.

God I so wanted this movie to be good.

Also why the fuck was that physicist in the movie? He did literally nothing. He just casually accepted the fact that they could now walk on the walls and spent the rest of the movie standing next to Amy Adams telling her how magnificent her work is.
He should have been the one to be given the "tool" and have to find out how it works with the help of Amys translations. Or he should have at least TRIED to get some information out of the situation in the way he should know. He never even bothered to experiment and even form any sort of hypothesis on anything, as a god damn theoretical physicist!

Why couldnt this just be as good as sicario? Why is scifi so hard? Did it just die out along with Lem, Asimov and the rest of them? How could they create things that were fun to read, comfy and make sense but now no one seems to be able to?

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Bump.

>Language is the key to time travel

you pretty clearly missed the idea of the movie senpai

the point was that she knew the future and she chose to do it all the same

she wasn't a time traveler

It was a deterministic scenario. She didn't "choose" because there was no such thing as a choice for her.

sure, that's a better argument against the movie than the original one you made

Still, I don't see how learning a language allows you to see all of time non linear

I'm not OP

And also if all humanity learns about their future, it's not gonna end well.

>the physicist did nothing

Technically he found that the final info dump from the aliens is only 1 of 12 parts by plugging some algorithms into a computer. But Amy Adams could have done that too

I don't see how the giant aliens made a spacecraft made of rock and had a hover 30 feet over Earth. You need to have some suspension of disbelief.

it doesn't, giant robots are also not real, neither is faster then light travel, or doc browns time machine

the fact that its a fiction should not prevent you from enjoying a well executed film you fat fuck

>languages change how you perceive the world
Ok, thats kinda reasonable
>learning a language that is non-linear allows you to perceive time as non-linear
wtf

Its almost as bad as Lucy

This
Movie made absolutely no sense in the last 20 or so minutes

For a sci-fi tim that postures itself as being pretty grounded, it certainly asks a lot. Faster than light space craft with omnipotent aliens I can understand, because they're from the future or whatever. Having Amy Adams look at some circles which allows her to see all of time as non-linear is just plain retarded

>languages change how you perceive the world
>Ok, thats kinda reasonable

Kind of reasonable? It's factual.

So what you are saying is the movie would have been better if the aliens gave her a tv time machine that would allow her to view the future?

that would be more believable right, the tv could use quarks or neutrinos or some shit.

the language works because it is a device that is already present in a story about language and communication.

I'm not saying anything about changing the plot. Its still really cool and I like it, especially BECAUSE its related to the already present story devices. I'm just saying that it falls apart if you think about it for more than minute.

Both Interstellar and Arrival are total shit desu fampai

>I'm just saying that it falls apart if you think about it for more than minute.

I don't see it. The message of the movie was very deterministic. Everything is going to happen this way regardless so you should enjoy the journey.

It does not matter how she was able to gain the foreknowledge, that was always going to happen. Its a close loop. What is important is she learned to enjoy the time she had.

Its a simple movie, the concept are not new or deep, but it was executed well. It looked good and it told a story that connects on a human level.

Arrival was pretty GOAT until the ayylien flat out said that Louise can see the future. The ending is cool with how she remembers/forsees what the Chinese guy said. And the twist that the "flashbacks" were actually in the future was pretty cool

Yes, I agree. Everything about how she acts with the foreknowledge makes sense. What doesnt make sense is how the human brain can transcend space-time by understanding some circular symbols. If they'd given any other reason for how she gained the "time-travel" ability, I'd be completely cool with everything

>flat out said that Louise can see the future

That was the movie making sure everyone in the audience knew what was happening.

They did a really good job of having the experience of watching the movie mirror the experience of the protagonist.

We were sharing her experiences, it was the most clever use of nonlinear story telling i have seen, far better then memento

You don't really ever have choices in a universe with physical laws.

Your brain is just really complex and you lack the ability to see past the present... so it seems like choice exists. But really, it's just our limited understanding at play. Our memories, our physical nature, and our experiences determine our choices before they are presented to us.

She basically turned into Dr. Manhattan in the film, without the atomic powers. She lost choice, but gained perspective and understanding.

>What doesnt make sense is how the human brain can transcend space-time by understanding some circular symbols

because she was thinking in language that was not linear, that is the reason the movie gives,

can language really do that, no, but that is the little bit of pretend to move the story along.

its the same as doc brown and his flux capacitor, a capacitor does not flux but who cares, it works in the movie

>Language is the key to time travel

This part of the plot was an exploration of a strong interpretation of the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity) that language affects the speaker's world view.

In reality, the more accepted weak version claims that linguistic categories and usage only influence thoughts and decisions.

In any case, the aliens do not experience time linearly, like we do, but all at once. Learning their language allows humans to experience time non-linearly too.

>"Language is the key to time travel"
you clearly didn't understand the movie.
This is the reason we keep getting shit dumbed down all the time.
Language isn't the key to time travel. Understanding the language, how the aliens think, let's you understand their non linear view of everything and honestly as much as she was able to see forward/backward it's not time travel and it's not because of some magical language.
Fucking idiot, made a thread with more than three paragraphs for nothing.

What did the aliens plan on doing if amy Adam's didn't contact the Chinese general? Attack Earth or just be bullet sponges and sit there?

Hence my comparison to Interstellar.

They knew Amy was going to contact the Chinese because humanity helps the Aliens 3000 years from now. Not sure how the two are connected, but they know humanity gets the message.

> You cannot honestly say that this was good but Interstellar was bad.
I like Interstellar, but you're delusional if you think its a better movie then Arrival.

> They were both good and bad for EXACTLY the same reasons
No. Absolutely not. I don't think this could be farther from the truth.

> For interstellar it was "Love is what holds the universe together" and for this its "Language is the key to time travel".
You're a retard.

Why the need for time bullshit in the first place though? Why not have the aliens give them an artifact of some sort or even just a set of formulas or an idea with a lot of potential, and then have the physicist work together with Louise to solve it. That would have been perfectly scifi and would give his character meaning.

Interstellar is crap because the whole power of love bullshit comes out of nowhere. everything in arrival uses concepts established within the film, one thing naturally built from another.

the conclusion to arrival felt natural and real for the world it constructed from the beginning. interstellar on the other hand just felt like a bunch of tropes slung together for maximum feelings

>The ending is cool with how she remembers/forsees what the Chinese guy said.

God I hated it so much. It was so forced, because there was no other way to have the story make sense.
>Haha. Remember when you called me on that day. Heres is what you said to me back then: Ching chong ching chong! This is a totally natural way to start a conversation with you, because you can obviously remember it because you said it, but since old you who is watching this scene in the past in her head TV doesnt, I have to make sure to repeat it all.

>Why not have the aliens give them an artifact of some sort or even just a set of formulas or an idea with a lot of potential, and then have the physicist work together with Louise to solve it.

because a central theme in the movie was communication and language. thematically it makes sense for the device that humans use to better understand their world and the future is language.

making an actual time device would be stupid, it does not make sense within the world constructed.

> Why not have the aliens give them an artifact of some sort or even just a set of formulas or an idea with a lot of potential

>I like Interstellar, but you're delusional if you think its a better movie then Arrival.
I liked parts of both, but did definitely not like how they ended.

>No. Absolutely not. I don't think this could be farther from the truth.
They are obviously different in their plot you mongrel. Read my post if you want to know how I think they are similar in ways not plot-related.

>You're a retard.
Nevermid what I said above. This is an argument that I cant beat. its too logically sound.

I want to put my penis inside Amy Adams.

> LOOK AT MY RAISINS GUYS!
> Its all bitching and asking WHY!

Good argument. Hows it feel to be a pleb?

Imo the time travel thing comes out of nowhere just as much as the love thing does in interstellar. Nothing in the first half of the movie needs this concept except for the flash forwards.

Could have been a great science fiction film if it just went with the aliens giving us a piece of actual physical knowledge. Would have validated the physicist at least.

>The message of the movie was very deterministic
It wasn't. She made the choice of having a daughter even though she knew she would die from a rare disease.

Language would still have been the important part to understanding what they want to tell us.
It didnt need to be time travel per se, but for example a physical theory that explains the universe far better than ours and allows for the things they seem to have mastered.
This is honestly what I though we would get when they got the cloud made of hundreds of symbols. It would have been actual hard scifi and not dude time travel.
Instead it was fucking "Guys the symbols make up 1/12 of the space in the cloud! We need to work together as a species!". Is this what hollywood thinks physicists do? Not to mention that it wasnt even close to 1/12 of the space...

there's no time travel in Arrival, you utter pleb

>Imo the time travel thing comes out of nowhere just as much as the love thing does in interstellar.

One of the very first lines in the movie is her talking about how she thought this was the beginning but its not.

They set concept of non linear story/time at the beginning. Nothing comes out of nowhere in the film. Every time she had a "memory" it looked more and more like the future then past it was obvious.

She even talks about how the heptapods write and think as if they know the beginning and the end at the same time

>Existing at all times at once is not time travel.
Please watch the movie (again).

Yes in the same way that the ending of Interstellar was set up. It was still shit and both the setup and the ending could have been removed and changed and the film would have been better.
Same goes for Arrival (imo)

>Existing at all times at once is not time travel
it isn't
watch the movie again and then kill yourself

This. Fucking OP didn't even understand the movie kek

>plotholes
fuck off. it wasn't about time travel.

So my theory is that the "aliens" are literally time traveling squids from earth that evolve rapidly within 3000 years and the reason they wanted to help humanity by uniting us is because they knew we would all nuke each other and destroy the earth. Is my theory sound?

>Time travel is going to the dinosaur age in a big technical looking machine and shiet haha
>>>/physicsbook/
you better start reading m80s

well if you want to get technical every time I hope in my car I am traveling in time relative to the person standing on the street

>Denis dumbed down the original shortstory to the point of having the aliens literally tell Louise she could SEE the future, yet we have people like this

watch the movie again. there's no time travel. in their non-linear depiction of time future has already happened. the scene at the UN party was merely a reminiscence of something that was in the future but had already happened, since time is flattened

I honestly don't know what you're arguing for or against. Circles were a theme. I didn't think I would have to actually spell it out Causal loop trope, a loop, IE A FUCKING CIRCLE! It didn't come out of nowhere it was being set up the whole movie.

are you telling me the circles were not stains from my coffee mug?

that's not a theory, that's just plain retarded.

good one retardo

Ok since you idiots wont understand it riddle me this: in the very end do you think the alien ships went invisible? If not where did they go? Could it possibly have been in a 4th direction where they could no longer be seen???

Dont hate on the symbols. Best part of the movie was how the language worked. Just wich it would have actually been a cryptology/ liguistics focused film for more than 20 minutes.

they disappeared, that's all we know. can they time travel? maybe. did Louise time traveled in this movie? definitely no. and the screenwriter made sure even the dumbest person in the audience could understand this, still...

Ok at this point youre just arguing semantics. There is no physcial difference between what you call "looking into the future" and what I call travelling through time.

>Just wich it would have actually been a cryptology/ liguistics focused film for more than 20 minutes.

Agreed that was the best part, and the fact they approached it systematically just like someone who studies linguistic would.

I almost feel they added the physicist to give it scientific weight, that people would not accept the systematic study of language as even a thing.

if they have the technology to indefinitely float around with no detectable outside forces as well as have variable gravity inside the shell then its not farfetched that they have some really advanced cloaking technology. humans have been able to bend light to some degree for centuries, but no one has any idea how to manipulate gravity, even theoretically.

The characters definitely were the focus of this movie, are you retarded?

I'm pretty sure the Chinese guy knew about the "time-travel" thing, and that he recognized how he had to tell Louise these things. Like how he shows her his stupid private number for no reason

what is the basic premise of traveling? moving from one place to another. time travel happens when you move from some place at some time to some place at another time. in the movie, the heptapod language enables you to SEE time non-linearly. time is perception. we see state A and state B, the perceived change is what we call time. in non-linear time, everything that has to happen has already happened. that's why the moment Louise got enough profficiency with the alien language to be able to access the memories from her future, she became an expert at the language, because her future self has mastered the language. there's no travelling. she has already been in the future. the chinese leader giving her his cell number is merely a remembrance of something that in our linear view of time happened in the future

>the fact they approached it systematically just like someone who studies linguistic
This is what scifi used to be. Its just become hard to pull of for a two or three hour movie, because people just prefer popsci to actual "boring" scientific work.

Why do you think that? I think it was definitely more about plot than about people.

Thats a very good point actually. Makes me feel better about the scene and his character.
Still I feel like it undervalued what would actually happen. Humanity would at this point already rapidly steer towards the absolute peak, because they would know everything they ever know at any point. Same goes for the scenes with her daughter. All in all my biggest problem with the movie.

>non-linearly
Bullshit. Time is never linear and we dont percieve it as that. What we are confined to is only ever percieving one point in time, whereas she percieves all of them at the same time. Has nothing to do with linearity or loops or whatever. But this is seriously semantics. Im an antisemant so I will not continue to argue about words.

>Time is never linear and we dont percieve it as that
Are you serious right now? If time isn't linear how can you say that your first kiss has to have happened after you were born? Pic related

>You cannot honestly say that this was good but Interstellar was bad.
this movie had one eye rolling scene; interstellar had at least half a dozen

neither are "bad" but interstellar deserves far more flack and is a much worse movie, especially because of how ambitious it was

interstellar is a movie where people thought the best way to solve a plague killing plants was to build a space ship, master gravity, and colonize space. even giant domes to grow plants free of contamination would be cheaper and easier

it was pants on head retarded from the start

Fucking idiot

Kek. This is not what linearity actually means. this is what they meant when they said it in the movie, but that hardly makes it correct. Time was by definition of the movie a one dimensional line, because of the determinism thing. The aliens and everyone with their language could travel/ see along that line at will, like we can walk and see through our three spacial dimensions.

Linearity means that a function is dependent on a variable in a linear way, ie in a non-exponential way. Nothing to do with anything in the movie.

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND HOW BAD THE DUST STORMS WERE

Oh for fuck' sake. You fucking people. I bet you're the same OP from earlier, or at least one of the complainers from that thread too.

I'm increasingly starting to believe the autism thing here isn't just a meme and some of you can't get your head around some basic concepts in storytelling. The level of obtuseness is staggering.

Langauage is not the key to time travel, there never WAS any time travel.

>really good visuals

the fucking cinematography and close up scenes in arrival were trash