Abbot is death process

>Abbot is death process

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>*audience laugh track*
Was this really fucking necessary?

then who was ink?

>What did he mean by that?
What did she mean by that?

>last 12 minutes is 911 news footage
Was this really fucking necessary?

>Time travel aliens.

>Couldn't even avoid the death of Abbott.

>he doesn't understand causality

>film is released
>film is literally impossible to talk about on film discussion board

What a shit hole of a movie fml

Incendies is still by far his best movie.

>Time travel aliens.

You didn't understand this movie

>louise uses her powers to mind hack people in the past and make them commit 9/11

Was this meant to be a serious conspiracy theory? Why end the movie with it?

How did Abbot die if he knows the future, couldn't he just avoid the bomb?

>I didnt understand where they went in the end: the post.

What do you guys think the squids needed humans help for in 3000 years?

They needed humans to fuck with their thick tentacles

Why in 3000 years?

They dubbed them Lennon and McCartney in ukrainian.

If humans had the ability to see the future we would quickly advance to the ultimate stage like the heptapods did. Maybe were just better suited and could go even farther than them and be able to help them.
Honestly would have been more fun if he had said they needed help in as little as 10 years or so. Would have valued the power of what they gave them better.

Butterfly effect. If he did, things would turn out totally different. Or he simply could not because there are no time paradoxes in this universe and things are set in stone. Or he did not care. You can't really comprehend a completely alien mind.

ya messin with casuality mane
who knows what might go wrong

>Radiohead
>le ebin twist
Incendies is his worst

obviously something they could only do combined or that their species is dying out or something
i think its something referring to universe travel or some shit

i like that it leaves it up to the imagination when they could clearly have said "we are dying and need medicine only humans can make"

You missed the point of the movie. I believe you still can't change the "future". There is no such thing as time, it's simply a measurement system created by humans for their own convenience. We are born, we exist for some time, we die. That's why we imagine that all things have the beginning and the end, just like the dumb white apes we are we can't really think outside of the box.

Amy's character did.

Human's would naturally develop the elasticity required for hard fast penetration by large tentacles. Humans were made for sex.

>be me
>wake up
>did not become death process overnight
>sad

Things are set in stone. It was the point of the movie.

No, he always knew he would die at that point. Just like the heptapods knew they needed help in the future.

Its not the destination that is important its the journey, Abbot had always experienced his death, just like he experienced every moment of his life

>You missed the point
>I believe
So youre sure Im wrong but not sure youre correct? good premise.

Regardless: you can most certainly not change the future. Everything is deterministic.
So humanity would see themselves looking into the future seeing themselves looking into the future...
Still we would gain the knowledge of everything and thus provide what we could look forward at in the past.

Is there any genre that /our boy/ Denis can't make a kino for?

scifi

this.
just as MC still smiled when her daughter was born and cried when she died
even though she knew it would all happen she did it anyways
her husband didnt see it the same way though,

I was confused when Amy Adams was talking about palim drones in reference to her daughter? Is that like another alien species or was her daughter named after the alien planet and she went to it?

And belive me I wanted him to be able to. This was the only big release this year that I was actually looking forward to.

The logic in the movie is slightly flawed.

>Aliens come back to give humans gift in exchange for helping them 3000 years in the future
>Since Aliens see time all at once, they know that the humans have already helped them
>Therefore, giving the humans a gift is inconsequential because the humans have already helped the aliens


Now, if this is a gift out of thanks, that's another thing and totally makes sense. But if the gift is a way of making the humans want to help the aliens, it doesn't matter because it already fucking happened since the aliens perceive time in a non-linear fashion.

Kek

The aliens didnt have a choice in the matter. They couldnt have decided not to give humanity the tool because they already did it.

There a rip out yet?

>>Therefore, giving the humans a gift is inconsequential because the humans have already helped the aliens

The Universal language was a thank you for humans helping them. The movie shows us that cause/effect were not linear.

So the thank you came before the help, not that it matters

If you went back and attempted to change time what would happen is that you merely adhered to the actions you were "fated" to do. Time is a constant and almost invariable and cannot really be altered. Every choice you make you were "destined" to do.

The aliens giving the humans the technology was something that from the beginning was "fated" to happen in their timeline. Everything in the movie is predestined.

Squidbillies the movie.

Even though I know how this ends and Ive downloaded the theatrical recording about a dozen times. i still refuse to watch it. I want a rip, or a dvd rip, or some kind of rip that warrants this movie. although i spoiled myself about the end of the movie, i still want to experience it as it was meant to be seen.

English is not my native language and I'm a bit drunk, don't mind my fuckups.

Humans are merely smart animals with the god complex. We don't know shit about universe and our whole understanding of it comes from the things we can comprehend. We think there was a beginning to our universe and we think there should be an end to it only because those are the simple concepts we understand clearly. Movie does not give heptapods a clear background, but it does show how completely alien they are.

>oh am i not sitting in the correct spot. I'm sorry. let me move to my theater approved

Does anybody else have the urge to stick your dick inside that?

>i still want to experience it as it was meant to be seen.

even knowing what you know going in the movie still works. its not as effective as the first time where you are going through the same process as the protagonist but it works.

in subsequent viewings you are just like she is at the end of the film, able to go back and experience any part.

Its a nifty effect, better then the shit nolan shits out

If you don't want to fuck aliens you're fucking gay

If they can't change time only witness it in a loop how did she call the Chinese dictator, by learning his number from him in the future? He could only give it to get if she called him and told him his wife's dying line first, but she could only do that sheet learning his number later. I know its a back and forth loop but they can not exist without her calling him first, even though she would never know his number other side

Fucking mobile typos...

But it's not just that she calls him. It's that she calls him with the right information to get him to meet her in the future and give her the information that she has the ability to see in the past.

A palindrome is a word that can be spelled the same backwards. Her daughter was called Hannah

>A palindrome is a word that can be spelled the same backwards.

just like a fucking heptapod thinks, time, cause/effect can be backwards and forwards, she can remember info from the future, the phone number, for use in the past.

The movie beats you over the head with these concepts, how do so many anons not get it.

Every single one of his movies has le ebin twist tho

How is that a bad thing. All executed pretty damn well.

>there are people that unironically thought this trash was good for anything outside of visuals and score

good lord

>explosion in the room
>Glass/barrier is clearly not broken when she takes the drop pod into the squid zone
>Ayyliums can see entirety of their time, so Abbott could have warned them earlier, or merely just pushed them out of the human chamber in the first place instead of trying to warn them with extremely ambiguous tentacle movements
>Abbott still dies for whatever reason

>Louise has a kid with Renner even though she knows they divorce and Hannah gets cancer and dies, and Renner apparently doesnt give a shit, despite being a friendly and nice guy

>Some rando National Guard chumps form a suicide pact by watching a Ghost/Alex Jo es spinoff, the entire sequence is never mentioned again afterwards

>Aliens knew they were going to meet humans from future, but for some reason never knew English when they showed up

>Being able to read various O shaped letters with different squiggles somehow allows you to experience the future, which can influence your past and present, and vice versa

>Louise was a fucking boring,plain and forgetable character.

Pathetic.

A lot of people are missing the point of this and saying "why didn't Abbott just avoid the bomb?"

Remember, for them time is non-linear, there is no death since there is no definitive end. Abbott's death is a turn of the wheel, hence why they say "death process" and not "dead" or the simpler "dying". Abbott knew he was going to die, he knows he will be alive again, he is simply in the current process of dying

deepest lore

Did he die because of the bomb or just because of old age or natural death?

>Aliens knew they were going to meet humans from future, but for some reason never knew English when they showed up

They knew English, but the entire point was that they were teaching humans the Universal Language. They pretended to be taught because the process works two-ways

the only serious issues this movie had were your last two points

the rest can be washed under the blanket of "it's about causality and accepting fate" and "the aliens didn't see the future only every part of their time at once, so they couldn't influence anything"

although this as a premise is fucking stupid desu, and is never handled well seriously

slaughterhouse five used this exact same concept but it actually worked because it was all a joke and the only one unstuck in time was a fucking idiot and some meme aliens, nobody sensible actually accepted non linear time perception

>Lennon
Please fucking tell me the translation for "Abbot is death" was "Lennon is kill"

>Not understanding b-theory of time
Wew

>I didn't understand that Abbott new he had to die in order for the future events to happen in the way that they do: the post
It's almost like you didn't see the movie user?

fpbp

there's no time travelling in The Arrival, though

That sort of ruins the entire joke though.

Abbott and Costello is a reference because they had that famous skit about miscommunication and about the confusion that can be caused by multiple words having similar meanings.

youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg&t=147s

>how do so many anons not get it.

I honestly don't know if everyone here is retarded or merely pretending

Not so famous here. I only know about Abboth and Costello because I'm a fucking nerd.

Determinism makes absolutely no sense.

>oh no she had no choice, she would have had Hannah anyway

What if she chose to rip her uterus off? Or commit suicide? Would some inexorable force intervene and prevent her from doing it? It makes absolutely no sense

>I honestly don't know if everyone here is retarded or merely pretending
>everyone here is retarded

No one pretends to be retarded, at least I hope not. That shit was never funny

>What if she chose to rip her uterus off?
But she did not. You did not commit suicide today but you must have been thinking about it.

>What if she chose to rip her uterus off?

She can't things are deterministic.

You don't make choices user, that is an illusion created by your brain. The choice has already been made.

>But she did not
She had the choice. A fully deterministic universe with no free-will is full of paradoxes and autism. It makes no sense

The choice has already been made. If she did rip her uterus out, she would have seen it

>things are deterministic
They aren't. Drop off your sci-fi flicks and open some books. Determinism is a meme

If you can see the future, and live in a deterministic world... then the future you see is one that cannot be avoided.

The future you see will either not change your actions, or change your actions to fit with the future you see.

She saw a future where she had the child despite knowing that it would die because she was the kind of person where knowing that would not cause her to change her actions.

>A fully deterministic universe with no free-will is full of paradoxes and autism

No it would be a perfectly constructed watch, each piece doing exactly what it is supposed to and nothing more.

Embrace the illusion and enjoy the trip because that is the most you will ever get

this is the childish version of determinisim. The one where you can know the future but choose not to change it

she sees the future she has with the child dying and then MAGIC because it's determinism she CHOOSES to not change the course of history and thus fulfilling the future

but thats fucking stupid because she still has the choice

real determinism is the simple fact that everything you do and every choice you made, if the exact same scenario since the beginning of time up to the choice at hand were replicated in a parallel universe, you would make the same choice in every universe no matter what.

>The choice has already been made
Imagine this scenario: you somehow get the power to predict your immediate future. This power is telling you that you will say "OP is faggot" exactly 30 seconds from now. Knowing that, what is preventing me from 'refusing" to say that? Is there an inexorable force that will force me to utter said words? It makes no sense outside of speculative sci-fi.

My point is exactly that our universe can't be deterministic because hard determinism is full of paradoxes and holes.

good thing this isn't a documentary then

Bad example.

Imagine if you suddenly know that if you kill your mother in 30 seconds you will prevent something terrible in a near future. Would you do it?

I would definetely not. Human instincts are beyond our reach.

Please.

Do you imagine that you have a choice? The mind is a physical object just like anything else. It reacts in very predictable (but complex) ways.

Choice only seems real because we can't comprehend the mechanics of our mind, and the inputs that are going in. But if I have a black box with a mechanism inside, that doesn't mean that the end result is random... just that you can't see it.

Philosophy and sociology provide for plenty of defenses against determinism... but biology and physics don't. Why? For the same reason that smoking companies fought research showing that their product was dangerous.

Philosophy has a vested interest in showing choice to be real, as in a sense the study of our choices is a large part of philosophy.

good thing I wasn't questioning the inner logic of the movie, but rather the viability of determinism in real life

>she sees the future she has with the child dying and then MAGIC because it's determinism she CHOOSES to not change the course of history and thus fulfilling the future

She makes no choice user, the whole movie is her coming to grips that there are no choices. She embraces the journey because that is all she has.

She still has the illusion of choice because all humans do, its an artifact of how our brains work.

We are not literally making a choice, our illusion is the process by which we understand the choices that were set in motion

Why is it a bad example, because it doesn't raise any moral issues? It's a good example. It's a really simple, stupid hypothesis but already enough to carry away the viability of determinism.

But you will never see yourself killing your mother in 30 seconds because you would never do it

Name one?

I mean, yeah... there might be some holes in a fictional one where human minds can transcend time... but what is one paradox/hole in our universe being deterministic?

You wouldn't see that future then. If you wouldn't do it, you won't see it. Learn to determinism bro. The future is not the only thing that sets the present, the present sets the future. Everything is set.

The world isn't a perfect newtonian system. There's a random element to things. That's why determinism is retarded.

>Philosophy and sociology provide for plenty of defenses against determinism... but biology and physics don't
>but biology and physics don't

Kek. Do you think physicists actually meme determinism? Ever heard about quantum theory?

she literally has a monologue where she asks Jeremy Renner "if you could see your whole life laid out in front of you, would you change anything?"

at the end the entire point is she chooses to have the kid anyway. The whole point of the movie is definitely not her coming to grips that there are no choices, but that she shouldnt choose to change anything

>the illusion of choice

again, you dont get it. We make a choice. The "illusion" of choice part isn't that there is already a future out there that BINDS us to make a choice in the past, but that every event in the universe up the the point of the choice has been such that we WILL make the choice that results in the future that results in that choice. The illusion is that no matter what we choose, it was what we were GOING to choose anyways

>There's a random element to things. That's why determinism is retarded.

Everything above the quantum level is deterministic. We have no evidence to suggest the "fuzzy" nature of the quantum level is somehow creating "free-will"

If we had two identical human brain and if they were given identical inputs they would always generate identical outputs

determinism is wrong

the whole field of modern physics goes against it. chaos theory goes against it. what reason is there to believe we live in a deterministic universe?

1+1=2

free will btfo

even if the universe is not deterministic how does that suddenly create "free will"

things may happen by random but that would not imply choice

>it's a pretentious user says the only thing good about a particular work is the visuals episode
you might as well just say you don't have the ability to critique sincerely

Do you seriously think the quantum level influences neuron activity?

KEK

We're talking about mental determinism, the illusion of choice. Not minor fluctuations in background radiation or some shit.

Countering me with quantum mechanics is just ignoring the scope of the field.

>Everything above the quantum level is deterministic.

It's really telling that you say it like it's a cemented fact when there's tons of controversy and tons of research showing indication of quantum behavior affecting nervous systems. Determinists are basically theists