Does Sup Forums and all of western media for that matter, exaggerate how shitty and poor Eastern Europe is? Now...

Does Sup Forums and all of western media for that matter, exaggerate how shitty and poor Eastern Europe is? Now, I'm not a Sup Forumstard that thinks Eastern Europe is "based" and I still think the other regions of Europe are much better for living, but Sup Forums makes it sound like Eastern Europe is Asia and Africa tier. I mean yeah Moldova and Ukraine are 3rd world shitholes, but the rest of the countries don't seem too bad. They're 2nd world countries that are improving economically every year. I mean is it really that hard to find a decent life in a countries like Romania, Poland, and Russia?

Other urls found in this thread:

consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_15189/fef0e3a681e322f3eea036a874a8d89fde41a111/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#/media/File:2016_UN_Human_Development_Report_(Quartiles).svg
investopedia.com/exam-guide/cfa-level-1/macroeconomics/nominal-real-gdp-deflator.asp
oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/household-saving-rates-forecasts_2074384x-table7
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

it's bad. it's not so much about poverty, it's more about corruption. west is less corrupted, more chances to succeed in life if you weren't born to right parents

>Russia
>second world
hahahaha

2nd world doesn't exist, stop trying to make it a thing

>I mean is it really that hard to find a decent life in a countries like Romania, Poland, and Russia?
Poland is not that bad, it will be a first world country very soon. The problem there are low paid jobs, but at least they have them, so unemployemed is not a problem. Their infrastructure is quickly developing, and their economy grows every year (they didn't have a reccession). Romania is pretty bad, you can live a good life you have a highly payed job I think. I don't know really, it doesn't look very developed, but I can't exactly tell how people there are living. Russia is so big and diverse that you can enjoy a life of a first worlder or you can literally live like some african kid in Ghana.

>but Sup Forums makes it sound like Eastern Europe is Asia and Africa tier
it's meme because they never been there.

Media doesn't really talk about eastern Europe

stories about our government, Orban, and the EU potentially sanctioning us have been in the international media for weeks if not months, you're just dumb

It's pretty much the same as in Poland. But I do think they are more developed then. Like you said there are plenty of jobs but the wages are pretty low. On the other hand so are the prices. My father managed to build a house from scratch on a wage just a bit above the minimum.
I did take five or six years though

>tfw you werent born in poland

Ukraine wasn't "3rd world shithole" before Maidan and Donbass war. It's actually very rich country with a lot of minerals and literally the best land for agriculture. If they would put their shit together instead of constant "muh heritage" and "filthy moscals!" whining they would've been better than Poland already.

yes it is
the salaries are not in pair with prices

you can eat, drink and smoke for cheap
thats the benefit, but rents, cars, petrol, electronics, services and so on are not on pair with the avarage payment
look at a purchasing power map, look at an avarage salary map, look at young ppl living at home

the lowest is too low and many ppl live on it, the contrast is too big, you become an engineer or land a great job in the bank sector and you live like a king, you work as a construction worker and theres nothing left after food and rent/bills

>It's their fault we fucked them up. Why don't they get their shit together and stop whining

Russians are a disease

i don't know about other countries but we have almost the same prices as in western european countries while average wage is almost 5 times smaller.
also rampant corruption everywhere, free healthcare is trash, shit job perspectives, nepotism is extremely common (though it may be like that everywhere), no freedom whatsoever (especially freedom of speech).
and the most depressing part is that the situation here will not improve, if anything it's getting even worse.
also low pensions, no economic and financial stability (just check the history of our currency's exchange rate) and of course a lot of annoying alcoholics everywhere who always try to talk to every stranger they see (at least on some national holydays like the new year celebration).
can you believe it that jobless people in neighboring finland who live off unemployment payments have a better life and can afford more than an average person in russia with a full time job and average salary.

Nah, Ukraine was the poorest country of Europe (Of the big ones) with huge problems of debt and corruption. It's a poisoned gift. And their problem is not "muh heritage" but being between NATO and Russia and their own corrupt society.

Eastern Europe isn't Africa tier,
Africa has natural resource.

>very rich country with a lot of minerals and literally the best land for agriculture
just like russia. and exactly as in russia the richest are getting even richer while selling country's natural resources and the general population keeps living in poverty.

I watch our news daily and it's never been mentioned

I make about $170 a day and I'm a 21 year old who didn't graduate high school because I just wanted to play video games and smoke pot. I now realize how insanely lucky I am. I do work very, very hard and I strategize and carefully plan my life so that might also contribute.

>lot of minerals and literally the best land for agriculture

Except the rest of Europe has pretty good farmland as well and we already have more food than we can eat. As for minerals, being a primary resource producer is not a lucrative position today.

Well I mean there's more to it than just 'it's bad' or 'it's not that bad'. Some things are as good or better than in a lot of Western countries, others are worse, some are more or less the same.

Some good things about EE:
>Safety
They're relatively safe countries despite the memes
>Public transportation
Not the best in Europe by any means but leaps and bounds above Dublin, for example.
>Lower chance of monopolistic businesses, more small businesses, higher demand for local products
Come to Finland to see what I mean by this. We have one private rail company, 2 major supermarket chains which kill off any existing small businesses and eat up new entrants, several large manufacturers with monopolies on their respective industries. Bakeries, butcheries, etc don't exist here aside from specific areas. The West is more prone to this, with some exceptions.
>Lower population density
>They put more importance on their culture over appeasing the PC police

What's really bad about EE is
>low wages
Serbs make in a year what Finns can in 1-2 months for doing the same amount of work (cashier job used as an example).
>corruption
Nothing ever gets done, citizens are effectively powerless and criminals trot around in broad daylight because their daddy has enough money and connections to ensure their freedom.
>Poor quality of public services
>Shitty infrastructure
Except the internet
>Education not recognised anywhere else in the world
ie a Pole with an accredited MBA only being able to work as a nanny or au pair in the West
>Employability
It's very difficult to get a job in a country where everyone makes little money and employers will make ridiculous demands because they can, whilst foreign employers will treat them as less worthy than their Western peers and/or give jobs to more visibly 'oppressed' people for diversity points.
>Prices
Most household appliances cost the same there as they do here, even though their wages are much lower.

Until it's time to see a dentist or get life-saving surgery

>$170 a day
lol it's more than the minimal MONTHLY wage in russia
consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_15189/fef0e3a681e322f3eea036a874a8d89fde41a111/

7800 russian rubles=~130 us dollars

The education part is false.

Not really, a Bulgarian college will never be on par with a Finnish one.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the document isn't valid in the legal sense.
I'm 100% sure it is.

That's not what I meant, I meant the prestige associated with the degree. In the same way someone with a degree from Oxbridge is more likely to get hired than someone with a degree from the University of Wolverhampton.

Sure, I'm on board with that. I'm in one of the best unis in the country and it's garbage, I've heard other, non-CS, degrees are even worse.
The biggest issue is the deadbeat professors that got in during communism. With a few exceptions.

i wouldnt paraphrase it like that. theres only a handful of prestigous globally recognized universities, i'd say finnish universoties fall into the same broad category of unrecognition. though employers might be predisposed on favoring the less corrupt country of origin but that is a question of public image and not education exclusively.

Most westerners really think that "easternyurop" is one place and they hate everyone from ex-eastern bloc and belive that its the same stone age shithole everywhere. If you tell them where you are from they will go "ohhh".
My experience from traveling.
Leaf and aussie backpackers tend to be very cool on the other hand.

Well. It's true that it's not as bad as memes would have you believe and there is ongoing growth, occasionally upset by shitty policy decisions or exogenous crises.

However there are also differences that will take a while and difficulties to bridge:
>Corruption
I believe that it's not as bad and omnipresent as public opinion would say, but it is decidedly worse here than in the west (where it's not nonexistent either). I'd say bigger problem that its existence is the fact that people kinda expect it and tolerate it to higher degree than westerners would, and even people who will condemn and whine about it may find it easier to succumb to temptation when their personal benefit is on the line.
>low wages
as far as I can tell this is mostly result of eastern companies having hard time competing with western well-established traditional corporations. We end up being subcontractors that do the job for fraction of cost western workers would while the big holdings in the west skim the cream of profit. There's no easy way to bridge this gaps I'm afraid: liberalisation gives more leverage to the capital owners and foreign corporations while protectionist policies can give local companies opportunity to grow but as with any government support there's risk of abuse and allowing them to stagnate.

That said, this is not taking into consideration other shit happening in the world, like migration crisis that will and already is adding even more variable into the mix on multiple fronts: economic, social cohesion, cultural, political and relations between the countries

It's been getting better ever since we decided to give them a lift on our success. If you want to see what non-EU eastern europe looks like, look no further than Belarus.

That's actually the point I'm trying to make, I'm not saying Finland is considered any less of a literally who country in the eyes of Brits or Germans, or that education we or Bulgarian pupils receive is any inferior to theirs, my whole gripe with it is that hardworking, smart people from both countries constantly get passed over in favour of people with Western degrees who might even know less on average purely based on public image and familiarity. At least we have that old glory of muh best education in the world (not true anymore), but even that doesn't help Chinese students who are consistently on top of the PISA list.

Plus there's the fact that those same students from literally who countries often can't even apply for college in more 'desirable' countries because they usually need an IB diploma as opposed to a regular lukio one.

Ukraine is Russian/Ukrainian country. If Dutch-speaking part of Belgium will decide to ban French language and will kill the protesters Belgium will be in the same mess as Ukraine is.

And stop listening to your propaganda, faggot. You always ignore what other people think. In this case you just ignore and dehumanize people of Donbass and Crimea.

>And stop listening to your propaganda, faggot. You always ignore what other people think. In this case you just ignore and dehumanize people of Donbass and Crimea.
lol

You sound like someone that would believe that finland started winter war and poland attacked germany in gleiwitz

such is life

I think it's fair to say that most big cities (at least in Poland, where my experience is limited to) such as Warzaw, Krakow or Poznan is more or less absolutely first-world-tier by any account.

Some of the boondocks is however a very different story, and many people live under riddiculous circumstances, and it's not something you would see in any western europe country, excluding of course shitholes such as Portugal.

I'd also just like to express my gratitude that the usual American, Aussie and Canadian posters has left this thread alone, perhaps with the exception of the harmless pot-gamer bragging about his salary, allowing this thread to actually stay coherent.

>Stop listening to your propaganda, just listen to ours
Please tell me idiots like this guy are not the majority in your country, Russian-bros

...

im so glad im not a slav no russian "brothers" can come claim our land as theirs

doctors from sl*v countries move here to take care of elderly
teachers come here to wipe ass of kingergarten kids
do not believe their lies
they are corrupt as fuck and anyone with half a brain in their countries moves away
only exception is czechoslovakia because they live like hobbits
rest of the slavs either kill themselves or immigrate somewhere else while praising their sl*v shithole

>m not saying Finland is considered any less of a literally who country in the eyes of Brits or Germans
But they (and everyone) consider Funland a rich scandinavian country.
Go to a bar in London or Berlin and start a convo with random people and watch their reaction

You'd be surprised by how many actually think Finland is the capital of Sweden unironically, most people don't actually care about us so they don't really know much. Sweden is a lot more popular, Denmark too. Finns do well in Germany but nowhere else.
>immigrate somewhere else while praising their shithole
You mean like Turks in Germany?

It's true Finalnd is usually grouped together with Sweden and Norway even here in Romania and is considered just as prosperous, Also it is literally one letter away from Funland so it has to be true

turks were invited to come tho :DD
no matter how much g*rms try to deny it or edit that wikipedia page with (((questionable))) sources it is still true :DD

Russia is based. Cheap and quality food, low taxes, fast Internet, developed infrastructure.

>Sup Forums makes it sound like Eastern Europe is Asia and Africa tier
anyone who thinks that Eastern Europe is nearly as bad as Africa is unironically retarded
>I mean is it really that hard to find a decent life in a countries like Romania, Poland, and Russia?
I actually like it here, employment and infrastructure are real issues but we're far from starving and killing each other in the streets like everyone seems to think
Russia seems pretty much the same shit in major cities, except for the censorship maybe
Poland seems better

This

> Nepotism's a big problem

Nigger you haven't been to Italy then, like, nepotism is in Italian genes or something, it's basically everywhere. I think ex-USSR countries are the ones to be less affected by that problem

2bh, if eastern Europe found a way to deal with corrupt/incompetent government, the region could become a very cozy place

>yfw Italy has exactly the same problems but we keep getting away with it

Do not expect non-meme answers on Sup Forums

Italy invented the word, it makes sense you'd be the best.

What is it that makes southern Italy such a hotbed for corruption and mafia like activities

Absence of outside investments into our economy, much more distant from other European countries than Northern Italy, more devastated by invasions from South, no resources (I live in Sardinia, the only thing we have is Carbon and a bit of gold or something,,)

Also, maybe I'm not the best person to ask, I'm pretty much a foreigner so I don't really know what it's all about

P.S. There's almost no Mafia in our parts, but I think Sicily and Calabria etc. mafia problem is due to their infested by arabs mentality

>if eastern Europe found a way to deal with corrupt/incompetent government

>if eastern Europe wasn't eastern Europe it would be a nice place

Well, yes:DDDD

There are huge differences between Eastern European countries. Some are closer to the West, some are closer to African tier of developement.

>Poland is not that bad, it will be a first world country very soon.
It already is since 1999 when it joined NATO. ;)
But if you meant if it's a highly developed country by HDI, then yes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#/media/File:2016_UN_Human_Development_Report_(Quartiles).svg

I don't know man, standard of living here is better at the countryside, towns usually have the poorest people. But Slovenia is rather different than the other EE countries.

Transylvania is on par with V4 countries in terms of development
Outside of Transylvania life is pretty much exactly the same as in the Balkans

not everybody is you

poland and czechoslovakia are central europe though.
eastern europe is all shit

I have always been baffled by the sheer level of delusionalism, brainwashing and stupidity of the average English, yet at the same time, i am not surprised given that i have seen what a normal newspaper stand in England looks like. We call that ''yellow papers'' here in Bulgaria, in England, they call it ''news''. Nobody takes yellow papers seriously here, yet in England, they are the main source of information.

Listen son, with the exception of the countries that border Russia that are not part of the EU, all the other countries that are part of what you call ''eastern Europe'' are rich and developed countries, the V4 countries are richer than the southern European countries of Greece, Portugal and Spain. The Baltic states, in particular Estonia is richer than Portugal and Greece. Romania is richer than Greece, Bulgaria will be soon too. Romania actually has less corruption than France, and V4 countries like Czech R. are exceeding pretty much any other EU country in everything, except maybe Germany.

Bulgaria GDP per capita 2017: $21.498
Romania GDP per capita 2017: $23.957
Czech Republic GDP per capita 2017: $34.849
Slovakia GDP per capita 2017: $33.054
Slovenia GDP per capita 2017: $33.579
Poland GDP per capita 2017: $29.349
Lithuania GDP per capita 2017: $31.848
Estonia GDP per capita 2017: $30.764
Latvia GDP per capita 2017: $27.189

Greece GDP per capita 2017: $26.667
Italy GDP per capita 2017: $36.833
Spain GDP per capita 2017: $36.238
Portugal GDP per capita 2017: $30.193

Lastly, it is not ''western media'' that portrays this false stereotypical image, it is ONLY English gutter press. Eastern Europe is part of teh Western World, so their media is ''western media'' too. The type of coverage you are talking about exists only in the English gutter press, nowhere else. Listening to an English displaying his ignorance has to be the most annoying yet fascinating thing to me.

>yellow papers
Those are callled tabloids by anglos
Also
>PPP
Not good, use nominal

>Transylvania is on par with V4 countries in terms of development
Maybe on par with Hungary, definately not on par with Czech Republic.

How is it even possible to live on $130 a month? Do you just board with your parents or sleep in a car or something?

Same here

>Do you just board with your parents
this or live in a flat you inherited from your grandmother

PPP is called ''real GDP'' by economists and all experts, nominal GDP is not a real GDP, it measures how much your money can buy in a foreign country. PPP takes into account the local inflation, the consumer prices, it measures how much your salary can buy in your own country, not in a foreign country. It is the only indicator for measuring wealth used by economists.
investopedia.com/exam-guide/cfa-level-1/macroeconomics/nominal-real-gdp-deflator.asp

He doesn't, he is just an idiot like you. Nobody in Russia is paid in dollars, and nothing in Russia cost in dollars. If you don't take into account the exchange rates and purchasing power adjusted for local wage and local prices, you will end up with this kind of ignorant and retarded statements.

You best visit and form your own opinion, but I'll just say this: Westerners usually put all of these countries in the same basket, but there are major differences between them, both economic and cultural.

western europe, southern europe, northern europe does not equal ''westerners''. Western bloc from the cold war is over. Western World = Europe. You are a westerner. You are only talking about dumb chavs and brainwashed half-brain English, they are the dumbest fucks on the universe, they spread this false stereotype. The other day a dirty English migrant got beaten in Bulgaria, i was happy.

Something tells me you aren't an impartial source, no offence

He's right though. No working Russian has a monthly purchasing power of only $130.

I am not a source, i am the messenger, i simply copied the official data and pasted it here so braindead idiots like you can get a glance look of reality. You are probably experiencing a cognitive dissonance right now. Everything you are repeatedly told on a daily bases by these yellow papers turns out to be a lie, youre now realizing your whole life is a lie.

There is still clear difference tho. Economicly and mentality.

And even portugal or greece which have lower gdp than us are still richer countries in terms of wealth

If you are making 1000e last 20 years you are still richer than someone who started 20 years ago at 100e and only last few years have 1100e

>tfw i wasnt born in finland

i will never get a qt finnish gf will i

How are they richer in terms of wealth? What the fuck is wealth? Wealth is measured by the GDP, how can you have lower GDP yet be richer? They are not richer, half the population of Greece lives in poverty. The data and the GDP adjusted for per capita bases clearly shows who is richer than who. Czech is just as rich as Italy and Spain, and twice as rich as shitholes like Portugal.

Also, yes, of course there is difference between countries and cultures, but that APPLIES FOR EACH COUNTRY. There is no such thing as ''Western Europe'' as a single cultural region, the fuckfaced idiots who repeat this are talking about the western bloc from the cold war. Spanish culture is different than German, which is different than Norwegian which is different than Italian. Here's a map of cultural areas in Europe according to antropologists, not tabloid authors with yellow teeths. Where do you ''western europe'' on this map?

This guy gets it. Although wealth is not the only measure. I'm sure our education, health care and even infrastructure are better than those of Greece for example. Nevertheless, they have a different mentallity, a very laid back style of life, so their lifes are definatelly not worse than ours (their diet is very good, and the weather with a lot of sun does make them less depressed). Hell, I would even say average Italian lives a better life than average German does.

You are wrong. Average greek family is still richet than czech one because they acumulated their wealth during better times.

And yes there is clear difference between eastern and western europe in mentality thanks to 40 in communism. No boom capitalistic years in 50s and 60s, no liberal and sex revolution in 60s etc.

Our recent history is just different. We can open this question again in 30 years

>What the fuck is wealth?

How many euros have Greeks saved up, how many villas and cars they own.

there's four types of eastern europe nations IMO
>rebirth nations
nations like poland, finland, and the baltics that were shit on by previous administrations and war that were thrown money at by western powers, leading to a top notch economic recovery
>stag nations
nations like croatia, slovenia, czech, etc that saw no large scale destruction of the state or economical hardship in recent history, and were left in a better position than above, but haven't seen near as much investment and are generally stagnating
i don't shit on these nations because i like adriatic orange roofs
>nations within russia's sphere of influence
here you see extreme stagnation or even large scale economic downturn as a result of being just used as a puppet state (ukraine, belarus etc), and russia is fully willing to turn these nations upside down to keep within their control
>southern balkans
shit economies due to retarded administrations, most of them due to post-tito retardation (albania, serbia, bosnia, FYROM, "kosovo," greece etc)
there's no big brother to bail these guys out usually, just due to them having no real geopolitical/economic/military value to the pwoers

mfw average Slovenian has 56 times wealthier than average Ukrainian. See guys, Eastern Europe is very varied and not the same everywhere at all.

Please, stop posting, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

>russian "brothers" can come claim our land as theirs
>implying Russians and Ukrainians aren't same people with different LARPing autistic syndrome

>he believes that massacre in Odessa is Russian propaganda
Are you literally an autist who never was in Ukraine?

Yep, my culture is 100% identical to both Moldavia and Greece.

Yeah

Germans have higher purchasing power but italians are wealthier(own house after parents vs. renting)

>nations like croatia, slovenia, czech, etc that saw no large scale destruction of the state or economical hardship in recent history
>croatia saw no large scale destruction in recent history
>in recent history
What is the war during the 90' in Croatia? A conspiracy maybe, a hoax or what? Damn, you are ignorant. Also Finland was never Eastern Europe. And what red roofs are you talking about? If you mean med houses, those are not found in Czechia.

>stag nations
nations like croatia, slovenia, czech, etc that saw no large scale destruction of the state

Did you miss part when there was war in Croatia 20 years ago you dumb leaf.

What is the source of this map? How are they measuring wealth? What data are they using? What is the methodology? I have given you the official IMF data for 2017 of the GDP PPP for each country.

saving rates do not measure wealth. Savings are not wealth. Greece has negative interest rates, you can't save in negative interest rates. Wealth is measured by teh value of your money, how much your money can buy.

oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/household-saving-rates-forecasts_2074384x-table7

Don't try to explain that to foreigners, they only account 70 years of our history and nothing else.

They are wealthier but not 100x more like 1-2-3times. Most of the wealth is in the form of over prices real estate that they pay 20-30 years loans.

i want to cut your throat becasue i hate stupidity and i hate people that perpetuate lies and stupidity.

CS report, its huge pdf file

Your wealth so savings, properties etc.

If you measure wealth by savings rates, then Slovenia is richer than Canada and America put together.

>as a result of being just used as a puppet state
As a result of destruction of Soviet Union by liberals and destruction of all of our former industry you capitalist faggot.

>you can't save in negative interest rates

What is investing in property

>by the value of your money

Yeah, how convenient that money is Euro which won't sink to monopoly money like drachma would. Greeks have been living on dole borrowed by their government and paid to them in wages, pensions and subsidies for quite some time so they have more saved than post-comm nations which have had monopoly money for 40 years and private property and investment is only the case of the last 30 years.

I've only been to Czechia, but it literally is Africa-tier compared to western europe. And it's supposed to be the best Eastern European country. Others are probably even worse.

>all of our former industry

Your industry was shit. The only industry that was up to date (somewhat) was the weapons industry which surprise, surprise wasn't worth dick when everyone realized that big war hanging over everyone's head wasn't coming.