ITT

Post "i dont understand what is happening and i dont intend to invest time in the art, so instead I will just call it shit and whoever likes it 'tfw too intelligent' to mask my attention span that is as developed as a teenager" albums

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=NOWaD8Abq90
youtube.com/watch?v=UfOPW9HHpxU
youtube.com/watch?v=-FhhB9teHqU
youtube.com/watch?v=58nPEe-TU-w
youtube.com/watch?v=JelqPcoaAB8&list=PLftB2gYwhiFGQZodEfF2ItWCS8QqVWodn
twitter.com/AnonBabble

"i dont understand what is happening and i dont intend to invest time in the art, so instead I will just call it shit and whoever likes it 'tfw too intelligent' to mask my attention span that is as developed as a teenager" albums

...

...

underrated

Captain Beefheart is one of the worst artists of all time. It’s incredibly boring and the only people who like it are fools who get sweaty palms when they gotta ask for more ketchup at mcdonalds.

Pic related, it’s me after listening to Trout Mask Replica

Literally hello /r/eddit

This but unironically

Pretty sure the original post wasn't ironic

It's ironic because OP didn't seem to invest time into art criticism himself.

How so? It seems to me OP likes the album the way he describes it

If you have to "invest time" into an album, chances are it's not that great.

He's literally ripping into the people who think fans of this album are only pretending to like it, how can you not see that?

So music should be shallow, easy listening and simplistic over complex, stimulating and time consuming? This is honestly the shittiest opinion I've ever read.

It's not hard to work out that you don't judge music as art

Detective Conan OST Vol. 3

It's like forcing yourself to "enjoy" surstromming or virgin boy eggs.

>How so?
He hasn't demonstrated otherwise
>It seems to me OP likes
Likes
There's the problem
>how can you not see that?
He hasn't demonstrated otherwise

If you don't invest time then it's bad music.

>"enjoy"
Not what we're talking about, is it?

Try again.

>All music has to be experimental or groundbreaking or some shit

Music can be accessible AND good sometimes.

Like what?

...

Except he did by responding saying "this but unironically" obviously implying the initial post was ironic, which, if you have at least some common sense, it is plain to see that he doesn't fit into the category he's descibing

If you only judge music by enjoyment, you're by default a shit critic

>obviously implying
Irrelevant

OP hasn't demonstrated otherwise. Pretending by discussing the adverse is not a valid argument. Nice try though

>I listen to shitty music
>I'm so smart

Why should anything else matter?

How is "I like this!" useful to anyone but yourself?

holy shit what a plebeian
the thing about the music we're talking about is that it isn't harsh noise (i assume), it isn't meant to be painful or disgusting, it simply isn't sugared-up for easy consumption. it's not like surstromming, it's like wine, or any half-decent cooking. restraint is a basic artistic principle, pls keep that in mind and don't spew your porn-addict wageslave ideology all over us

You could have just said
>Post overrated memes

>sound shitty
>therefore it holds no artistic value
Opinion dropped

/thread

The fact that you cannot pick up that OP has a preference to the album by the language and describing terminologies shows you cannot pick up on obvious inclinations,m You're basically arguing for nothing (the funniest part about this is the fact that I'm actually OP and I'm describing how i emphasised that I liked the album to an autistic sperg). Please reply so I can have another hearty chuckle once again

why would you pick artistic value over gratification

You can have both you dummy

lmao what the fuck is this post

lol you're black

Everything by the man himself, who destroyed music for good.

Another rascal, who apparently loves music that sounds like people moving furniture.

>artistic value
Captain Beefheart had no idea what he was doing with the album and released a piece of shit and here we are over half a century later lauding him for releasing a piece of shit because people think he did it on purpose and it was a satire on music as a whole or some shit

t.person who listened to TMR more than once and did some actual research

>did some actual research
>follows facts with "or some shit"
Nah

Of course he had every idea, he set out with a clear defined goal, and ended up producing something entirely original. It even got translated into written music by the drummer and they have since reperformed the pieces live without flaw

NMH, The Smiths, Weezer, The Beatles, David Bowie, to name a few.

>it is a satire on music
>it isn't a satire on music and they just did whatever the hell they wanted
Either way it 100% hold major artistic value

>people think he did it on purpose
Well it didn't just drop out of his and the bands ass now did it

Any jackass could write an album with different scales and time signatures for every instrument and write some dribble lyrics. But that's exactly the thing artists avoid. It's not original, people have thought about it the same way you've intrusively thought about swerving off the road in a freeway. But since musicians try to make GOOD music, they didn't do that.

Basically what your saying is
>this guy intricately made complete shit but no one else made complete shit so it's original and artistic!

Of course a negro wouldn't understand

>Any jackass could write an album with different scales and time signatures for every instrument and write some dribble lyrics
>It's not original
Name 50 albums that sound exactly like it then

This. It's really easy to write haphazard polytonal music. Trout Mask doesn't actually achieve anything with its polytonality the way a piece like Rite Of Spring introduces it to actually create off kilter harmonic relationships.

>It's really easy to write haphazard polytonal music
But not easy to arrange and perform it in a blues rock band.

Nice try though

I don't think anyone would be able to. Not because people can't do it, but because nobody wants to do shit like that. Shallow music listeners who can't into attention to detail don't understand why certain music choices are made within certain contexts, so if somebody makes something shitty it's all of a sudden unique. But I can name Shaggs, a group of players who had no clue how to play their instruments, and Hampton Grease Band, known for having the lowest selling record of all time at a major label, for similar garbage.

So instrumental technicality makes something automatically good now? Why champion TMR then? There's a ton of wank that's much tougher to play.

That't two.

Name another 48 or retract your statement
>So instrumental technicality makes something automatically good now?
Nice strawman

Read my post again jimmy

...

I shouldn't need to, since I read it the first time and effectively retorted it

Answer the question.

You obviously didn't understand what my point was so i'll repeat myself once more

Read my post again, jimmy

>that's two
I literally explained why there isn't more like it. You're the one asking a question instead of actually countering the argument that was already put up. Don't accuse me of strawmanning when you're pulling logical fallacies here.

I didn't strawman. You said that it's hard to perform, and I implied that technicality doesn't make it good because there's tons of harder stuff that's also shit too. It's fallacious of you to mention this.

If you have some knowledge of chicago blues, free jazz, r&b and most importantly have a goddamn sense of humour this album is instantly more enjoyable

>There's a ton of wank
I think people shouldn't bother replying to you after this.

>have a goddamn sense of humour
Ever wondered why people still can't fathom Zappa, Ween and similar bands.

>Chicago blues
The album has none of the nuance in the guitar playing of those guys. It plays each of its phrases in a very straightforward manner.
>free jazz
Has none of the dynamics, versatility in playing for unique timbres, and rhythmic timing of any free jazz.
>rnb
Beefheart's voice doesn't come close to having the control and depth of the voices in this realm of music

Wtf are you on?

>But I can name Shaggs, a group of players who had no clue how to play their instruments, and Hampton Grease Band, known for having the lowest selling record of all time at a major label, for similar garbage.
Their drummer literally couldn't keep time. Are you suggesting The Shaggs could replicate a single song from Trout Mask Replica? I hope not, because it would indicate that someone doesn't have functioning ears.

>You obviously didn't understand what my point was
You mean "anyone can do it/it's not original" isnt your point?
>I literally explained why there isn't more like it.
So hence, it IS original, because of it's scarcity.
>instead of actually countering the argument
Of course I did. If it was truly easy, you would see more examples of it in the wild. The lack of real-world examples would indicate an error in your logic.
>Don't accuse me of strawmanning
I will, since that's what you did. Please read the thread before posting or don't get upset when I call our your errors
>and I implied that technicality doesn't make it good
The problem was we weren't discussing if it's good or not, but about it's artistic value. That's why it's a strawman.

People who have listened to like 20 albums in their life and call this a favorite should be dismissed.

I only care if someone likes this album if they have heard a shit ton of different music, because they know what they are talking about.

If you showed a 3 year old a classical painting, they might like it and call it "pretty" but they don't know WHY it's good and what sets it apart from other pieces. Same deal here.

Of course, because they still haven't come up with a legit reason as to why TMR isn't ass.

>Beefheart's voice doesn't come close to having the control and depth of the voices in this realm of music
Not surprising, since one of his main sources of inspiration was Howlin' Wolf. He didn't have a voice suited for R&B either.

If that's all you took from my post then you certainly didn't understand it.

>hey still haven't come up with a legit reason as to why TMR isn't ass.
It's originality and execution of the artistic vision.

I never said that they could. But you're talking out of your ass if you don't think Shagg's drummer's inability to keep in time doesn't sound similar to French having to constantly switch which instrument he's following, having a similar sound where it feels like he can't keep consistent time.

>wank
>ass
Is tryhard bullshit next? No, wait, it's a soyboy album for soyboys who don't think they are soyboys.

What else is there?
>French having to constantly switch which instrument he's following, having a similar sound where it feels like he can't keep consistent time.
Sounds like you havem't really listened to TMR.

I took a shit that was neon green because of the amount of dyed food i ate yesterday. Pretty original right? I don't think anyone has done it before. You gunna praise that too? What's your address i can mail it to you if you want.

>I took a shit that was neon green because of the amount of dyed food i ate yesterday. Pretty original right?
Well, what was the artistic intent of the shit?

>But you're talking out of your ass if you don't think Shagg's drummer's inability to keep in time doesn't sound similar to French having to constantly switch which instrument he's following, having a similar sound where it feels like he can't keep consistent time.
You outed yourself with this one. I suppose counting to 4 as a drummer would be too much of a task for you, forget playing polyrhythms.
youtube.com/watch?v=NOWaD8Abq90
youtube.com/watch?v=UfOPW9HHpxU
See, it's actually a thing.

Why are you indulging him?

To take a green shit. It took a lot of effort to ingest the food dye please pay for it

>To take a green shit
Then it's a false equivalency

Nice try though

Think of all the bands throughout the years, teenagers with no knowledge of music theory just jamming their instruments together into a collage of shit. Thousands have done it but decided not to release it because they have some standards for their music. Except this jackass got it published so all of a sudden he's the first(?)

It's original though, it has artistic merit. TMR is original because it's bad on purpose right?
Buy my shit

Only people who compose music can understand this album

Huh, well that's not what I'm asking, because TMR was meticulously arranged and has order to it, by musicians who do know music theory, produced by a known modern composer.

>it has artistic merit
How so?

youtube.com/watch?v=-FhhB9teHqU
youtube.com/watch?v=58nPEe-TU-w
youtube.com/watch?v=JelqPcoaAB8&list=PLftB2gYwhiFGQZodEfF2ItWCS8QqVWodn
Get it in your head, they were very capable musicians and none of it was accidental, as it could actually be notated and analyzed.

>so it is original
I never said it isn't relatively original. Like can you fucking read?
>lack of real world examples
Us explaining actual songwriting process is the real world example you fucking idiot. Surface level music fans like you who can't follow need to gtfo.
>what you did
Nope I already explained why because I was mentioning that technicality doesn't imply being good after a statement was made on the album's technicality.
>artistic value
What the fuck does that mean? This is next level pretentious bullshit here. You either like the damn thing or not. Don't stoop to Christgau here.
Already mentioned that originality doesn't mean good especially in the case of this album. I'll repeat it again cuz you guys are mentally retarded: anyone can haphazardly put in coincidental polytonality and polyrhythms like this album does. Nobody wants to do it because it sounds like ass.
>sounds like you haven't listened to TMR
I own it on vinyl dipshit. French's drumming is haphazard polyrhythms that goes back and forth between the different instrumental parts all often in different time sigs.
Wtf did you try to achieve with this video? I already said that French constantly tries to adjust aspects of his playing for the other instruments who don't play in the same time sigs. Which results in sloppy sounding playing because it was put together amateur style cuz Beefy can't into music.

>cuz Beefy can't into music.
Again, stop indulging him already people. Please.

>thinks random playing can't be theoretically transposed and analyzed
Wanna know how I know that you don't know shit about music theory and acaltusl academic musical analysis?Dude literally played random bluesy sounding shit on piano which then French had to arrange. Beefy is as big a hack as it gets.

>I never said it isn't relatively original
Oh were you not following the argument?
>Us explaining actual songwriting process is the real world
Go on. Explain it
>Nope I already explained why
After you changed the crux of the argument, sure. And you are still doing it. See:
>doesn't imply being good
"Good" is irrelevant to the discussion
>What the fuck does that mean?
If you don't know, that would explain why you don't think much of TMR
>Already mentioned that originality doesn't mean good
Not what we are discussing
>anyone can haphazardly put in coincidental polytonality and polyrhythms
I will repeat:
1) it's not coincidental
2) if ANYONE can, show us 50 examples. "No one would want to!" is not a valid explanation, there are tones of experimental and Outsider musicians would would want to.
>I own it on vinyl dipshit.
WHOA WATCH OUT FOR MEAN MR VINYL MAN
>>thinks random playing can't be theoretically transposed and analyzed
If it turns out there is pattern, then it probably isn't random, is it?

>Dude literally played random bluesy sounding shit on piano which then French had to arrange. Beefy is as big a hack as it gets.
How much more of these do you people need? Leave and don't give him attention.

Kek to everything except Bowie

Why, what's wrong with NMH and The beatles?

You do realise this album exists as sheet music somewhere, and that it wasn't just beefheart who created it, it was multiple instrumentalists who all knew what they were doing and were capable of replicating it perfectly everytime because they practiced so much? John actually was drumming with multiple time signatures at once too and the actual instrumentals meet up into little pockets of 4/4 before dispensing into their own rythms again. Theresmany uniquely original ideas on the album that materialised themselves from beefhearts own thoughts.
To say that the album holds no artistic value shows how much you don't know about creativity in general.

>not following the argument
My first post itt was supporting the idea that it doesn't take a lot of creativity to compose something like TMR. You started responding to me from there. All that's on you as you could've stopped responding to me at any time.
>go on explain it
This would be literally the third or fourth time this is being done. Putting together various 1-2 measure phrases in different keys and time sigs together doesn't take skill nor creativity. Particularly in the way Trout Mask does it because it doesn't try to explore harmonic relationships like a piece like Rite Of Spring does. Instead it's weak harmonic intervals most of the time. It takes far more skill and creativity have polytonal music in polyrhythmic structures be cohesive, and Trout Mask doesnt have that at all.
>good doesn't matter it's about artistic value
But there's no literal objective metric for either of these. All this argument has been is people giving their subjective views and why they believe that. If you think it's more than that, you're either too young or have your head too far up your ass.
>it's not coincidental
It completely is though. Note how TMR is their only record that sounds like this. It's also the only one where Beefy's like "ayyyy arrange the random shit i play on piano". The harmonic relationships created through polytonality are also coincidental because they neither take advantage of say...being actually atonal or bringing a colorful jazzy harmony or anything interesting. Instead the end result is just weak sounding intervals.

>show 50 examples
Already been over why; nobody would want to make garbage like this.
>tons of experimental
Nope, truly experimental musicians actually try to do really original stuff. Even in a simpler rock format you got Residents who explore unique timbres all the time.
>outsider
Outsider music's completely if the side of naive art, not sentimental+naive like TMR.
>if there is a pattern
No patterns needed for analysis

>bad on purpose
Whatever gave you that idea? Social dogmas of tonality? Its just arranged sounds for the sake of expression. /thread

Are you even replying to my comment you fucking idiot? I wasn't addressing the OP at all, learn to read before you have a tantrum and start calling other ppl spergs. Get away from your own retarded conception of the world and try to communicate.

Was worth the wait

>language and describing terminologies
peak autism

Obvious raging samefag is obvious

not an argument. you seem like a cuck lol

>My first post itt was supporting the idea that it doesn't take a lot of creativity to compose something like TMR.
So you think creativity and originality are not connected?
>Putting together various 1-2 measure phrases in different keys and time sigs together doesn't take skill nor creativity.
Cool See >But there's no literal objective metric for either of these.
Misdirection. Please stay on topic.
>It completely is though
Prove it.
>It's also the only one where Beefy's like "ayyyy arrange the random shit i play on piano".
So now you *are* saying it's arranged? Which is it? Make up your mind.
>Instead the end result is just weak sounding intervals.
Irrelevant.
>nobody would want to make garbage like this.
Factually incorrect.
>Nope, truly experimental musicians actually try to do really original stuff
How so?
>Outsider music's completely if the side of naive art
Then why did you list The Shaggs earlier? Contradicting yourself (again)?
>No patterns needed for analysis
Nice circular logic

You just seems a little triggered is all chap