Which one?

which one?

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eminem's a better rapper, jay makes better music
i don't know how you could dispute either of those claims desu

Jay z
>with half a billion
>married to Beyoncé
>black
>has several classics

Eminem
>albums filled with edgy bullshit and outdated pop culture references
>wishes he was black
>half of his albums are utter trash,m

Eminem doesn’t have an album as good as Reasonable Doubt and Jay doesn’t have an album as bad as Revival

Jay-Z, but both of them are a bit overrated

Jay-Z, why is this even a question. This should be common sense

Em's best shit ain't better than Jay's worst shit.

As a rapper Jay isn't good enough to fuck with Encore times Em. As a businessman he's a fucking genius though.

Jay has way better music than Em tho overall

True but Em did kill Jay on his own shit.

youtu.be/8s0IMXqZGtM

>Em made that god awful beat
Is killing someone on a bad song really that much of an accomplishment?

He got like 2 good albums and 2 alright ones. Rest is a mixed bag with 2 good tracks out of dozens, that's worse than Em's mediocre stuff.

I don't get why people rate Jay so high (Em included ironically). If not for his legacy/status in the game and crazy promotion, no one would give a fuck about him after Black Album.

JAY

>I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars
>They criticized me for it, yet they all yell "holla"
>If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli
>Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
>But I did 5 mill' – I ain't been rhyming like Common since
He admitted to focus on sales instead of music, and his albums afterwards drive the point home further. How is there even an argument?

For as cringey as he is. I have to pick Eminem for sure.
Fuck Jay Z. It's fucking embarrassing people call him the GOAT in any way.

4:44 is definitely better than Revival that’s for sure

T. White guy

Eminem hit higher highs. But he's also struck more embarrassing lows. Jay-Z has maintained a mostly unsullied reputation and has coasted into OG status outside of just his rapping chops, while Eminem's a burning talent that is slowly dwindling into a dying, dwindling flame. Eminem is the pure artist who inevitably loses his powers. Jay-Z's the skilled businessman who knows how to interact with the greater public.

Jay-Z. He's a rapper of the people. Eminem is the engrossing spectacle, an outlier who no longer compels.

You're a retard or baiting.
White people fucking love Em and Jay.

But higher highs how? Jays albums are usually better then Ems IMO

How? Even if you absolutely hate Revival, you gotta admit Framed, Castle and Arose are pretty damn good tracks.
The only track on 4:44 that has any replay value is probably Bam. Hell, you can't even use the "muh pop singing" argument, since there is more fucking singing going on on 4:44. It's barely a rap album.

Wrong on both counts.

1. SSLP
2. Blueprint.

Yeah, Eminem's albums are always bloated and in need of an edit. But his individual bouts of unchallenged lyricism--Dead Wrong, Renegade, 8 Mile Road, One Day at a Time, Till Hell Freezes Over--had a way of getting under your skin. Jay-Z makes you wanna dance. Em, at his very best, could freeze you in place. It's a rare gift, one he only tapped into rarely, but when he did? The thought never crossed your mind he'd one day fall off so hard. If he wasn't so obsessively competitive he could have coasted into a more relaxed, confident rapping style, same was as Jay, but his mistaken need to challenge his younger self has led to his current dtate. Jay said it best. Want his old shit? Shut your faggot mouth and but his old albums. Eminem should have made the same choice immediately after Relapse. Instead we have a dude forever doomed to be chasing ghosts.

>Blueprint is as bad as revival
You fucking contrarians Stan.

How delusional do you have to be to think Revival was more listenable than 4:44 in any sense?

Eminem
>with half a half a billion
>don't need thots
>White
>has several classics

Jay z
>albums filled with edgy bullshit and outdated italian gangster movie references
>wishes he was white
>half of his albums are utter trash,m

>Implying Jay z does more/worse edgy bullshit than Em has.
You’re funny.

>Blueprint
>Awful
Give me your directiln so i could go to your house and kill you in a slow way

None, they are both shit.

Jay-z is a black jew obsessed with drawing money from whatever he could sell to burger-brained Muricuns.

Eminem is Dr Dre's white bitchboi he created for the same reasons Jay-z does "music",

It's called ears, user. What does 4:44 have to offer if you don't give a fuck about an aspiring billionaire whining unironically?

Now that's an good analysis, only with a shitty conclusion. We're left with a guy who's chasing his heights but failing and a guy who stopped giving a fuck 14 years ago and just makes music to sell.

Jay unironically pretended to be a gangster, Eminem just plays a character.

I never said Revival was more listnable to 4:44.

But Em's first 3 records shits all over jays entire career. Nothing he's ever made comes close to how hard Em came out the gate. If it wasn't for Biggie Jay wouldn't be shit, and I honestly have no idea how that nigga made as much money as he did.

Reasonable Doubt is better than anything Em has ever done

The only album he made that could contend is probably the slim shady lp since that has the most entertainment value.

Em Show And MMLP have some great songs don’t get me wrong but they’re inconsistent as all hell meanwhile RD alone was one of the most consistent and best produced albums I’ve ever heard.

>TES
>inconsistent
Sup Forums humor is amazing at times.

SSLP, MMLP, ES, shit even Encore are all miles ahead of Reasonable Doubt. I have no idea why niggas hold that record in such high regard when there was only 3 good tracks on the whole joint. I don't know where you pulled "Consistency" from but you've got some fucked up ass ears, homie.

neither.

You’re saying encore was better than fucking RD and you’re calling MY ears fucked up?

He got a point. One half on Encore is damn good, only one third of RS is.

>a "rapper" who got murdered by a pop singer who can barely sing

I’m calling complete bullshit but I’m curious what your case is.

Which half of Encore and which “3 songs” of RD?

What?

Your either 13 or have no taste

Eminem
>with half a half a billion
>albums filled with edgy bullshit and outdated pop culture references
>has several classics
>half of his albums are utter trash,m

Jay z
>with half a billion
>married to Beyoncé
>has several classics
>half of his albums are utter trash,m

user is the guy with 3 songs.

For me D'Evils and 22 Two's are the only good ones. With Brokinlyn's Finest, Dead Presidents II (mainly thanks to Nas) and maybe Bring It On being decent enough. The rest is boring shit.

On Encore it's easier to pick the lame tracks like My 1st Single, Big Weenie and probably Puke, with only Big Weenie being complete trash. Spend Some Time, Like Toy Soldiers and Mosh are kinda mediocre too but the rest is damn nice.

Where do you fags get the half half a billion from? Em isn't even on 200m despite selling by far the most albums. Managing money is the only thing he's absolutely inferior in comparison with Jay.

wtf i hate Kanye now

>But I'm not the only friend you've lost lately
>If only you weren't so shady
Taytay literally murdered him with two lines.

It’s increible how shit your taste in hip-hop is

>coming from the one who thinks Jay is anywhere close to Em's level

Dude you’re in the minority here you’re in no place to judge.

I won’t say it’s “trash” but you damn well know you’re in the minority and contrarian to call encore better than RD.

I’m convinced your shitposting at this point

Who gives a shit about muh majority? If you want to go with argumentum ad populum, RS sold 2.2m worldwide while Encore did 21m. Try something else.

Content-wise, RS is too fucking limited, just another faggot fantasizing about being a gangsta, so at least it should sound nice, and tons of the tracks just don't. Despite having fucking Premier production and being released two years after Illmatic. It's almost impressive how mediocre the shit is, then again having niggas high on nostalgia still praising it is even more impressive.

You do realize people reflectively looking back on an artists discography (which is what people are doing here) is different from album sales right? I never brought up sales. Bad albums sell high too.

And whether you want to keep denying it or not saying the album with fucking “Big Weenie” and “Puke” on it is better is contrarian as fuck.

And couldn’t you make the same god damn case for Eminem and people only praising it for nostalgia despite all the filler and annoying skits and the weaker tracks outweighing the good? That’s what half of his fucking fanbase does. Praise him for nostalgia.

You brought up popularity with a stupid appeal to majority. Sure, there is no denial more people would rate RS over Encore, bet Eminem himself would but that's not a fucking argument. And so far your entire point boils down to "everyone does it".

>saying the album with fucking “Big Weenie” and “Puke” on it is better is contrarian as fuck.
Let's be real, Illmatic is the only album without weak tracks. Besides, why judging based on the lows, given how easy it's to avoid them? (Also Puke isn't even that bad)

>That’s what half of his fucking fanbase does. Praise him for nostalgia.
Sure but most of them also hate on his new shit because of that, so at least it somehow balanced out.

How easy it was to avoid them? The “lows” were most of the god damn album. Those were just the main ones you gave. I could give the “only 3 good tracks” and “songs are samey sounding” excuses you gave for RD to Encore (possibly to MMLP too but even that’s too harsh for that album).

Majority argument depends on how you use it. If I was saying “it sells high so it’s better” then you’d have a point was but what I said was “as a collective most of the hip hop community prefers this album” and you’re greeting that with a “Nah I’M the right one here Encore was better”.

Jay is a better rapper but Eminem has a better hairline so he wins off the rip

Nice bait

>“as a collective most of the hip hop community prefers this album
Based on what? Posts on 4chains? Opinions of random people somewhere else? (aka. critics) If the people think X is better than Y, they usually buy X over Y, and we have the sales thing, which is the only somewhat objective criteria. Just when comes to art, that shit is meaningless, so we're stuck with you liking X more than Y and throwing a fit over someone else seeing it differently. And then doubling down on it with "but many other people like X more than Y too, so you're wrong!"

Without purely relying on subjectivity ... take the highs like D'Evils and 22 Two's, both are fucking dope, no doubt. But what does he say on either? On the entire fucking album? Content-wise Jays music till 2001 was "Big Weenie" tier. At least Encore mixed up pointless shit with current events, humor and true stories.

Based on critical reception, hip hop forums, “all time” lists. You name it.
And yes, most people will probably laugh in your face if you said you liked Encore better than RD. Call it “throwing a fit” all you want. You I guarantee are LITERALLY the only hip hop fan who would say that and multiple people have called you out for it. So far your argument is just the opposite. “I’m the only right one”

Why does a hip hop album “have to say something” to be good? Eminem surely doesn’t do that save for a few of his best songs. A grand majority of them are either Shock rap or comedy songs with the occasional story song. He’s not saying anything on there and you’re defending it. And the “humor” tracks bombed like all hell on Encore. The strong points on that album are the serious one.

I'd say Em, but I've never liked Jay (just not my thing) so I'm probably biased. Though if I had to be "objective" I'd say Jay-Z was more consistent but when Slim is on point he's much better.

>And yes, most people will probably laugh in your face if you said you liked Encore better than RD.
Yet most still bought it over that, and any other Jay album.

>Why does a hip hop album “have to say something” to be good?
Because that's the only thing it got going for it? Instrumentals peak got reached 200 years ago or so, hence shit lives or dies based on lyrics, and if you're going to use words, you might as well say something with them instead of just finding the ones that rhyme. It's not like it even has to be a true story, fun shit is fine too or at least well done fake stories, Nas or Snoop didn't do to bad with that. Shit even 50 made pointless shit at least sound entertaining and has some "from the bottom to the top vibes". Jay managed to make even his fantasizing sound boring.

>Eminem surely doesn’t do that save for a few of his best songs.
He did it on pretty much every album. It's not like an album needs to have somewhat meaningful content on every fucking track. Just shouldn't it leave you with SOMETHING in the end? The fuck did you feel by the end of RD? What did it made you think of?

>He’s not saying anything on there and you’re defending it.
Not at all. I just don't get the complains over meaningless shit on one track like Big Weenie when all 14 on the other album (and more albums afterwards) are just as empty.

See now YOU'RE using the sales argument again when I said sales and album quality are not the same thing. You're not getting what I'm saying when it comes to that so I'll use an analogy. I'll use Nas because you seem to be a fan of his.

Let's say there's 20 people. 19 of those people think Illmatic is a great album, and then the last one says "nah fuck that Nastradamus was amazing and Illmatic was shit. You're all stupid." Then the other 19 respond with "That's just stupid" and the one says "NO YOU'RE ALL WRONG! IT'S AN AMAZING ALBUM AND THAT ALBUM IS SHIT MAJORITY MEANS NOTHING!". That's the way I see it. Sometimes the majority is right when it comes to quality. Sales has nothing to do with it.

If you were arguing MMLP then fine, that's a different story because they both have decent reception behind them and there's a case for both. But this is applying more to you saying fucking ENCORE, one of the most unfunny terribly sounding albums in Hip Hop.

>It's not like an album needs to have somewhat meaningful content on every fucking track. Just shouldn't it leave you with SOMETHING in the end?
Jay did that on Reasonable Doubt. Regrets. That's a track about looking back on the mistakes you made and learning to live with them. Maybe he didn't do it the best, and maybe it's not the strongest song on there but when he does want to have meaning he has it. Other than that his main appeal (aside from his beats, which we can get into if you want. Your call) is his bragging and wordplay which he does damn well. Doesn't have to have a meaning but it's still very damn enjoyable. Just like slim doing his "I'm evil I'll kill you" schtick. It wasn't his only thing but it was his main bread and butter.
(might have more to add to this)

>The fuck did you feel by the end of RD? What did it made you think of?
Forgot to answer that part in my first reply. If you're talking about how I 'felt' I just felt it was A good album. If you're talking about me relating to it well...I don't do that with anything so you lost me there.

But if you're talking about what Jay is bringing to the table it's out bragging. I felt like Jay was a confident guy who knew how to make boastful rap. And if that's not what appeals to you in hip hop fine, it's not everyone's style, but to say it's all on a level as terrible as the album Encore that's different.

Honestly I'm confused where it's going in that sense are we comparing it to Encore or are we comparing it to MMLP because one could have a much better case.

>sales and album quality are not the same thing
Neither are "critics opinions" and album quality. These are just indicators that something is popular or not. Yet you seem to value opinions of people who talk/write (critics) over the ones who are willing to put their money behind their talking (sales).

>Nas because you seem to be a fan of his
Barely more than of Jay. If it wasn't somehow clear, I enjoy the music of every artist mentioned in the thread, a lot.

>Sometimes the majority is right when it comes to quality. Sales has nothing to do with it.
If you want to go with that majority opinion, why the fuck would you ignore sales? 18m people more think that Encore is better than RD after all. Why would you disagree with 18 million opinions over some jerk off behind a laptop who writes reviews?

Though again, I am only mentioning that shit because you value some external shit, instead of just accepting that it's subjective. If someone thinks, Nastardamus is the shit and can explain why he'd rate it over Illmatic with reasons, that guy isn't wrong assuming the argument is logically sound. At the same time, it's unlikely to make others see it that way either way ... which is fine too. (When it comes to variation Nastardamus is probably superior, so if someone enjoys that, why the fuck not)

>but when he does want to have meaning he has it.
Specially later in his career. Though Regrets, I don't know, personally I just don't feel it. Shit's still too mixed up with the whole wannabe gangsta stuff and just doesn't feel genuine.

>aside from his beats, which we can get into if you want. Your call
Seems way too subjective to make it really worthwhile. If you enjoy the beat on Cashmere Thoughts because it's chill while I dislike it for the same reason and would prefer D'Evils one, we wouldn't get anywhere. Though in the end it's an argument that makes sense, shit you should've started with instead of "but people say it's better, so it is!"

>bragging and wordplay
>I felt like Jay was a confident guy who knew how to make boastful rap.
Again, finally actual reasons. Though I feel he does the bragging way better later in his career, and it's more real at that point too. His wordplay and flow is hard to argue against.

>And if that's not what appeals to you in hip hop fine
Well, I prefer the battle rap approach when it comes to bragging with more focus on the other side but sure, preferences and all that.

>as terrible as the album Encore
It's not terrible tho. It's a mixed bag with some lows and highs, probably almost a 7 overall. Besides, it has like everything. Want some confident bragging? Never Enough, Encore and Ricky Ticky Toc. Want some jokes about a fucking hand puppet? Ass Like That. Do you prefer jokes about a crippled guy and butt sex? Rain Man got you. How about a love song? Maybe some real stories? Bitching about his ex wife or fame? He's never really great on it but Encore isn't nearly as bad as most complain about. (Just like RD isn't nearly as great as most want to believe)

I'll admit that's on me. I should have focused on the albums upsides earlier.

>almost a 7 overall.
I really hope you're joking about that but I'll see what you're saying about the album.

>Want some confident bragging? Never Enough, Encore and Ricky Ticky Toc
Encore is one of the three good tracks. Never Enough was weak. Ricky Ticky we can't really count since that's a bonus track. We're going with the standard album here.

>Want some jokes about fucking a hand puppet?
No. Fuck no. That was one of the worst comedy tracks he made save for Fack.
>Jokes about a crippled guy and butt sex?
No. The problem with these tracks as opposed to some of Em's earlier comedy tracks is here the jokes don't get anywhere above 'butt fucking'. It seems so much more childish compared to the comedy tracks on Em Show and MMLP.

With Encore funny his strong points were the serious songs, Encore, Mockingbird, and Like Toy Soldiers which honestly is kind of funny because on the earlier albums I prefered the comedy tracks (Cum On Everybody, My Name Is, Superman, Without Me, Real Slim Shady) with the exception of Stan and Bitch Please II.

And on Encore the combination of the two is kind of awkward I want to say? You have a beautiful (maybe the wrong word) track like Like Toy Soldiers and then directly following it is Big Weenie and Puke and these awful unfunny comedy tracks.

Compare that to RD where the style is consistent, which can work in it's favor or against it.

And if we ARE talking beats I much prefer RD's production because IMO Dr.Dre's beats were awful past the mid 90s.

>That was one of the worst comedy tracks he made save for Fack.
Not saying it's a good track but it adds to the variety with the beat. (Not saying it's great either but does the job)

> It seems so much more childish compared to the comedy tracks on Em Show and MMLP
His humor was always childish with over the top shock value, and some rare sober moments
Stuff like
>Let's end this shit now cause I won't stand for this
>And Christopher Reeves won't sit for this neither
or
>Now in the bible it says
>Thou shalt not watch two lesbians in bed, have homosexual sex
>Unless of course you were given the consent to join in
>Then of course it's intercourse and it's bisexual sex
>Which isn't as bad, as long as you show some remorse for your actions
Are at least worth a chuckle.

>Like Toy Soldiers
Yellow Brick Road is way better if we're talking about the serious tracks. And wouldn't rate Puke as comedy, it's a mix of that and a honest track. Kinda how Kim was a love song + a murder fantasy.

>which can work in it's favor or against it.
Well, depending on priority. RD is consistent, but so is Relapse and after the 10th track about wannabe gangsta/comical rapist & serial killer, dunno, it gets bit tiresome IMO. Also while the tone of Encore isn't consistent, the album kinda is. In a way. It's an artist on top who goes cray over it, and in that context even the dumb shit makes sense. The Encore theme is there, it's just a shame it doesn't really follow up TES as well as it could. Besides the production is pretty consistent, almost annoyingly so. Most tracks sound too similar to each other.

> IMO Dr.Dre's beats were awful past the mid 90s
That's about as contrarian as Encore > RD yo.

When it comes to beats, gotta agree. Encore is probably his worst produced album with the best stuff being "decent enough". Though I only love 3 on RD, these shit on the best ones from Encore. But it's a lot about mood too. At times Just Lose It or even Evil Deeds is pretty fun.

Jay Z just because he ghost wrote the GOAT Bugs Bunny rap song on the Space Jam soundtrack

youtu.be/5eaK1yyLOa8

(I'm not gonna bother quoting just to speed up replies)
The first example is alright but delivered terribly.
Second one was awful.

I may need to give YBR a relisten.

I don't think I need to defend RD against Relapse since Relapse is a fucking dumpster fire with worse shock comedy than Encore.
(Though ironically that album has some better Dr.Dre post-90s beats)

And I've seen some other people against it. Just what I generally prefer. I'll take sample heavy boom bap of..anything, not just RD, over the clicky annoying ass drums and bass of a 2K Em and Dr. beat.

>I may need to give YBR a relisten.
Follow it up with Relapse. That shit goes way beyond shock comedy. His approach to horrocore is innovative and there are old shady vibes, just with weird accents. It's not just a better production, his rhyme schemes are on another fucking level too.
Even the critics are waking up, it's not too late user!
hiphopdx.com/editorials/id.3516/title.in-defense-of-eminems-horrorcore-masterpiece-relapse#

>I'll take sample heavy boom bap of..anything, not just RD, over the clicky annoying ass drums and bass of a 2K Em and Dr. beat.
Dunno, personally I don't care as much, it has to fit to the track and to the artist. Em beats are generally simplistic but with the right artist on it (usually him), shit works pretty well. It didn't with Renegade and Jay but can you really dislike what he did on Moment Of Clarity?

>>with half a billion
lol naw
his sales aren't anywhere near that and warren buffet couldn't invest well enough to make Jay's earning equal that
don't believe the hype

>Can You really dislike what he did on Moment of Clarity?
That was the worst fucking song off Black Album abso-fucking-lutely. One of the two reasons that album isn’t a 10 along with Justify My Thug.

>Reasonable Doubt
>Hard Knock Life
>Life and Times
>Dynasty
>Blueprint
>Black Album
>American Gangster
>4:44

gee idk

>Almost everyone chose Jay Z
I am very happy rn.

It's not about sales but making sure you're getting a bigger cut. Besides, he jews on other successful artists under him and invests in other shit.

Damn, man. It's funny as fuck how two people can like the same album a lot but love/hate the same tracks.