Why doesn't he just give up rather than continuing to tarnish what used to be a good legacy by putting out atrocious...

Why doesn't he just give up rather than continuing to tarnish what used to be a good legacy by putting out atrocious albums every few years

BECAUSE HE WROTE STAN!

He should've just stopped in the early 2000s. He had moments of genius and now it's all gone.

>He should've predicted his downfall of quality and stopped prematurely, even though he had millions more to make

mfw I see people say this dumbass shit, every time. What does it even matter to you? Just enjoy the stuff that you do like. How do other bad albums existing affect you in any way?

Does he not realize his new material is awful though? Why bother putting it out?

>implying Revival, MMLP2 and Relapse weren't instant classics
>implying Recovery and Encore sales don't make the mediocrity irrelevant
>implying you can tarnish a legacy with new music

Because not everyone is a brainlet who wants the same shit over and over and over again. If a new artist released the shit Eminem did that's not rated by his old fans, the guy would've get more blowjobs than Kendrick.

word on the street is he wasn't 100% behind it but was pressured to get that product out

>>implying Revival, MMLP2 and Relapse weren't instant classics
literally all of those were widely panned and regarded as trash by most in the music scene

>implying you can tarnish a legacy with new music
Of course you can, ending on a high is far better than petering out in your forties

>he wasn't 100% behind it
Well, he confirmed it in the interview, kinda. Besides, there is the horrible promotion.

>was pressured to get that product out
Sounds like bullshit. An artist of his size tends to be above the label, unless one more album was part of his contract before going to DefJam with Paul.

>literally all of those were widely panned and regarded as trash by most in the music scene
Says more about the idiocy of the "music scene" than the quality of the work. Some saw the error of their ways and started rating Relapse. Let's see how opinions change on the rest after the same time.

>Of course you can, ending on a high is far better than petering out in your forties
Why? If you hate all of his new shit, just skip it. He doesn't delete his old stuff from your library with a new release. Do you think that all the albums after Pacs death tarnish his legacy too? If no, just pretend Em died during the overdose and it's just a clone using his name.

I don't think any artist should stop, especially if there's people that like what they do. There are still thousands of people that like the music he makes, and even though it's not as many as before, it's still worth doing. You're only comparing him to his old self. You wouldn't tell a new artist that is appealing to as many people as he is to stop.

Nothing is going to be for everyone. I think it's pathetic that people get mad at other people creating things. It's similar to how nerds get mad at Apple for making products that don't appeal to hardcore nerds. If you're not the intended market just move on with your life.

Because not everyone thinks those albums are garbage. Take a look at Revival's singles comments section on youtube if you want to get cancer.

>Some saw the error of their ways and started rating Relapse. Let's see how opinions change on the rest after the same time.

Relapse is a fun horrocore album and return to his Slim Shady persona. Horrorcore as a whole is under-appreciated and most people instantly associate it with shit like ICP. Appreciating Horrocore requires some affinity with hip-hop, which the vast majority of people don't have. Relapse isn't even that noteworthy, it's just so much better than the stuff that came after it but people didn't know at the time. The general mainstream hated that album so much that Eminem buried that style for good. What we got after that is some of the most unabashedly awful pop rap of the 2010s. Ear grating, shouted vocal delivery, Rihanna on every hook and overblown production. For some reason the mainstream likes it (the Rihanna singles at least) but the hip-hop scene just wishes he had OD'd long before.

How many artists actually made horrorcore with fun elements? ICP, Gravediggaz or Necro went overly edgy on it with dark lyrics, dark beats and so on. Em got some airy beats, funny accents and turned a track about getting raped by his stepfather catchy. The dance-y stuff like Hello or Same Song & Dance are pretty fucking unique. The only reason Relapse was hated is that no one expected that shit, so instead of looking at it for what it is, idiots complained how it's not the old Em.

>Eminem buried that style for good
Have you even listened to Revival?

>shouted vocal delivery
Like he did back on MMLP? Kim, MM, Criminal and Remember Me got shouting is on par with the worst on Recovery.

>Rihanna on every hook
So why aren't people bitching about Jay featuring her or Kendrick being on a track with fucking Taylor Swift? It's almost like Em's work is judged based on his past instead of any pretense of objectivity.

>overblown production
Like almost every album in last 3-4 years.

>For some reason the mainstream likes it
So even less reason to quit. Why should he care about autists hating if there are people who love his "new" style?

I think he'll react to the disappointment of Revival the same way he did for Relapse by drastically changing his formula like he did with Recovery. I think Recovery is ok, I think what's worse about it is how he kept reusing it. The only way he can move on from something is after it stops working. That's my biggest gripe with his career; he repeated so many formulas with his first singles, his skits, his album themes and even album titles. When he does something that works, he keeps doubling down on it until it's well past the point of being intolerable. I think that's a flaw with Relapse even though I like it; too much reliance on his past work. He's not like Kanye who needs to change up each album, Em would rather do the same exact thing every album and just obsess over his rhymes. I don't think he cares for music at all. When he talks about picking apart his music in his car, I think he is exclusively focusing on his own delivery and doesn't even hear the production or mixing.

I'm excited that Revival flopped.

He's obviously more of a rapper than a musician ... though from that point it's still weird how whack some of the punchlines on Revival were. Chloraceptic beat begged to be lighted up and Em didn't have a single great line there.

>The only way he can move on from something is after it stops working.
That only seems the case for Relapse after which he changed style for Recovery. Which worked great from commercial POV but he still adjusted his style for MMLP2 and afterwards again on Revival.

>Like he did back on MMLP? Kim, MM, Criminal and Remember Me got shouting is on par with the worst on Recovery.
I don't agree with this at all. Is shouting on Recovery is monotonous. He shouts the entire song because he turns the music way up in his headphones. It's emotionless and it only sounds like he's trying to shout over the music. On Kim, is shouting is not over the entire track. The way he varies his anger makes sense with what he's saying, and works with the story. Kim is so chilling because it sounds like it's actually happening.

Hardly any of the stories in his later albums sound convincing, and none of the shouting ones sound real. The only newer songs with stories that sound genuine to me are Beautiful, Castle, and Arose, probably because they are genuine. When he makes a song that is full of rage, it sounds fake because that's not his life any more.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds

Because he's surrounded by enablers who know that whatever he puts out, regardless of its quality, will sell.

It's retarded to think that he does it for the money. You really think he cares to get more money? If he wanted to make a lot of money he would do a worldwide tour instead of release albums and do a handful of performances.

>Have you even listened to Revival?

Yes and I don't remember the same horrorcore elements. Revival was full on pop-rap without any nuance.

>Like he did back on MMLP?

Don't act like you don't know what I mean. His post-drugs 'clean' vocals are inherently different than anything pre-encore. It seems like he can't rap anymore without shouting from the top of his lungs.

>So why aren't people bitching about Jay featuring her or Kendrick being on a track with fucking Taylor Swift?

People did bitch, what planet are you on but there's a difference and the difference is that Eminem has an unhealthy fascination and obsession with female singers providing his hooks. Having Rihanna sing your hooks and be responsible for your biggest hits is really lazy and artistically dishonest.

>Like almost every album in last 3-4 years.

Let's look at the biggest pop-rap star of the last few years, Drake. The production on his albums, starting with Take Care are all nuanced, atmospheric and well balanced even experimental. Marvin's Room would be the best example. Eminem's album post-Relapse on the other hand are just overblown without any nuance. Anthemic to the point of being obnoxious. Also don't forget the magic touch of Rick Rubin who pushes the overblown proportions even beyond their limits.

>Why should he care about autists hating if there are people who love his "new" style

Because he throws out artistic credibility in favor of commercial success. It's not even the fact that people like his music, his newer albums aren't even well received in the mainstream, it's just that his big singles sell. Big anthemic singles with female singers on the hook, perfectly tailored and watered down for the mainstream. He's basically just doing what's proven to work commercially. He didn't get big following pop-trends, he got big by being different. Seems like he has forgotten that but who cares when you continue to rake in the money.
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>He shouts the entire song because he turns the music way up in his headphones.
RickRubin.jpg

Now seriously, I can see why people hear it that way but not sure I agree with your list of tracks.

It fits well on Won't Back Down and Almost Famous. Even better on So Much Better, Evil Twin and Groundhog day. When it comes to being genuine, I take you just missed Deja Va, but how is Legacy not genuine? How is Evil Twin not? Even mediocre stuff like Talkin2Myself, Not Afraid or Going Through Changes is perfectly genuine.

> Revival was full on pop-rap without any nuance.
Framed is pop rap?
> It seems like he can't rap anymore without shouting from the top of his lungs.
There isn't any on some of the tracks mentioned in response above.
>be responsible for your biggest hits
>a popular pop singer makes popular music
Shocking. It's not like the shit where Rihanna is on has any meaning, these are pop singles that replace the equally meaningless stuff like The Real Slim Shady or Without Me. Or We Made You. If you're making a track to grab some attention, might as well pull a pop singer on it. He kinda did overdid it on Revival but before that, the amount of singing was minimal compared to Jay or Kendrick.

>Let's look at the biggest pop-rap star of the last few years, Drake.
Recovery alone sold more than every Drake album put together.
Also Eminems productions rarely went above "alright" outside of Relapse. Before he had simplistic beats, now it's a mix of simplistic and overblown ones. He always balanced it out with his rapping, voices and sound effects.

>artistic credibility in favor of commercial success
Was there any one who thought WoW was a good idea for a single? Eminem told half of his fanbase to fuck themselves, and as another user noted, tours would be much better if he cared about money. Anger Management made half a fucking billion. That'd be 31m albums sold. (Both just revenue of course but there is a bigger cut from touring either way)

>Framed is pop rap?

Sounds pretty straight-forward to me, it can definitely be mistaken for pop-rap by rap purists. Revival as a whole is a pop-rap shitfest and that can't be argued.

>There isn't any on some of the tracks mentioned in response above

Let me rephrase what I meant, Eminem's vocal delivery completely changed post-encore. His flow and delivery on drugs was enjoyable, now it's just obnoxious and he sounds like he's constantly pissed off.

>He kinda did overdid it on Revival

Glad we agree on that.

>Recovery alone sold more than every Drake album put together.

Drake is definitely the bigger artist and has been since Take Care. He also has the bigger streaming numbers and that's how music nowadays is mainly consumed. I don't remember Eminem having a music video with 1 billion views. Even for an artist as big as Drake, he doesn't shy away from experimental production. That's where Eminem stayed in the past, the role of the producers became way more important the past few years. Eminem continues to shout over beats like it's the early 2000s.

>Anger Management made half a fucking billion. That'd be 31m albums sold. (Both just revenue of course but there is a bigger cut from touring either way)

Why are you arguing like anyone is doubting his commercial success? That wasn't the original question OP asked. This thread was about discussing the quality of his recent music, recent being post-Relapse. His recent music has been awful on all accounts, the worst cliches of pop-rap mixed with the worst tendencies of Eminem's music, even hardcore fans have had enough of his consistently awful output. Seems like Eminem has nothing else to give and instead gives us what nobody asked for, pop-rap at its absolute worst. He's banking on his legacy and name alone and continues to perform well with singles only because Rihanna is there with her sweet voice to lull in the mainstream masses.

>Revival as a whole is a pop-rap shitfest and that can't be argued.
Sure, but it's also the point of it. Em wanted to make tracks for everyone. But how the fuck is Framed not his Relapse style?

>now it's just obnoxious and he sounds like he's constantly pissed off.
But that's bullshit. It's MORE common now, so generally you're not wrong but there are tracks where he sounds like his old self, where he sounds like his Relapse self, etc, etc, etc. If we are talking about his post Relapse/post break music and not just Revival, there is also fucking Don't Font which almost has Infinite vibes. Him doing ... whatever he is doing now isn't because he can't do his previous shit but because he's experimenting looking for something new.

>He also has the bigger streaming numbers and that's how music nowadays is mainly consumed.
By teenage girls, which are Drakes main audience to be fair. And sure, he's pretty successful when it comes to singles but when it comes to making motherfuckers buy an album, he isn't even near Recovery numbers. Just because Em is one of the few artists who can still sell albums, it's silly to disregard that. Or well, could.

>Even for an artist as big as Drake, he doesn't shy away from experimental production.
Because that's one of his selling points. Similar with Kanye. None of them could get away to rap to a simple production or whatever shit Rick decided to sample because it's just not their strength.

>That's where Eminem stayed in the past
Or you could call it muh artistic integrity. He does his thing, and outside of Revival it worked perfectly.

>Why are you arguing like anyone is doubting his commercial success?
Well, the accusation seems: "He sold out with muh pop rap" instead seeing it as an artist evolving. Also he didn't feature Rihanna in 4 years, and let's pray it stays that way, Skylar is way more talented.

As far as I'm concerned, Relapse was the end.

Did the 2000s even produce any truly groundbreaking rappers outside of Kanye? The recent revival of attention around Eminem has caused people to revisit his old albums and a lot of them are saying how poorly they've aged.

>Em wanted to make tracks for everyone.

Seems like he didn't succeed because everyone hates his new tracks, except for a tiny minority which you seem to be part of.

>whatever he is doing now isn't because he can't do his previous shit but because he's experimenting looking for something new

It's not about his style it's about his voice. Eminem on drugs sounded different and that's the style he became known and loved for.

>By teenage girls, which are Drakes main audience to be fair

Drake is way more respected in the hip-hop scene and critically than Eminem. Drake can't touch Eminem's classic stuff but he destroys him when it comes to his post-MMLP output. Saying that only teenage girls like Drake is like saying that only teenage boys, or hicks, like Eminem. Just bullshit stereotyping and generalization that doesn't help the argument you're making.

>when it comes to making motherfuckers buy an album, he isn't even near Recovery numbers.

If you haven't noticed, albums aren't the way music is consumed anymore, at least by the majority of people (mainstream). It's playlists. Saying Eminem sold more albums is like saying Michael Jackson sold more albums. It's comparing completely different times. Drake came up in an internet environment where album sales were at their lowest in history.

>Because that's one of his selling points

Drake's selling point is experimental production? I haven't heard that one before. His selling point are his 'emotional' lyrics and the fact that he can sing. The production just compliments his style.

>Kanye

Why do you have to bring up Kanye, are you that insecure that you have to bring him up even though he's completely unrelated to the things we're talking about. Kanye can't get away with rapping over simple beats? He rapped the first half of his career over crude soul samples and those are usually the tracks people, especially hip-hop heads, praise the most.

>Eminem on drugs sounded different
How is his voice on Don't Front or Castle not the same?

>Drake is way more respected in the hip-hop scene and critically than Eminem.
So what actual rapper did rank Drake over Em? Preferably someone respected in the game by other rappers. If you're talking about fans and "critics", who gives a shit? Their opinions only become relevant when they buy shit, or don't buy shit. And in that department, no rapper can fuck with Em. Pre Revival that is, will be interesting where his career goes now.

>Just bullshit stereotyping and generalization that doesn't help the argument you're making.
Pretty sure he'd admit it first. (Shit he probably did somewhere but I am way too lazy to look for interviews) It's not even meant as an insult, just his main target group. With Eminem all the groups are fair but he's pretty popular with girls too, just they are obviously not his key target market.

> albums aren't the way music is consumed anymore
For most new artists since no one sees their shit as worth buying. Big artists like Taytay still sell albums, or like Em did. Also you realize these days streams are included with muh "equivalent album sales number" and all that shit? 1500 streams of one track counts as one album sale. No one is comparing Em's older stuff, MMLP probably sold more in one month that Drake will sell during his career, but as you said, different times. I talked about Recovery. Fuck it, let's even take MMLP2, one of Em's worst selling albums, still sold better worldwide than Drakes best. Drake probably outsold him in 2017 so there is that though.

>Drake's selling point is experimental production?
Any kind of production that stands out, so yeah, obviously he has to experiment. His singing is another selling point. Doubt one would work without the other though.

>Why do you have to bring up Kanye
Check up the thread, I didn't mention him first. And his production always was dope, just less experimental.

Where does his "that's an awfully hot coffee pot" line rank in terms of his best?