So, I've recently started watching the new HBO show Westworld, and I can't stress how much up my street this show is. It's exactly my aesthetic, and thematically pretty prototypical of the exact sort of program that I like to watch the most. It's great.
But
The show has some pretty stereotypical invocations of Native Americans, in the typical Western fare. Now, the thing is, this might very well be the point.
But, despite that, at the end of the day, you're still seeing the (albeit in-universe-fake) Native American characters being portrayed and described as "violent savages", or else fetishized as "brave/noble". And the show hasn't directly addressed that right on the head, at least not yet, which makes me terrified that this show is racist, and that by watching and enjoying it I'm excusing racism and the stereotyping of Native Americans.
Although I haven't been able to find any critiques of Westworld as racist (yet), despite having not being able to stop myself from googling around them extensively, I'm still concerned. And while I would normally just stop watching the show... I... well. I want to watch it too to be included, this show is just... so very Me. Like honestly it's one of the most appealing show concepts for me personally that I've seen in ages, only the whole problem is that it's framed around Western tropes that are reknowned for being problematic (even though I guess that's sort of (maybe???) critiqued by the show but also not really/directly yet? It might just be subtext? Is that good enough? I'm not sure!).
So please, tell me what to do here! Are there any Native Americans here who have a perspective on Westworld? If it is racist am I justified in continuing watching despite that (I know All Media Is Problematic, but...). I mean, if I wanted to do that how would I banish the "this is racist" anxiety, how would I not feel bad for liking the show. Should I not be liking this show? Is it bad that I like it? Help please!
lmao at tards who dont realize that the themepark is based on american myths, not actual history
Colton Howard
I mean even is there is that underlying theme that might be critical (is it?) it's still kinda making use of that imagery for effect and shock value. I mean people have been saying the same thing about sexual violence portrayals in the show (this makes me less anxious though for some reason?) and the writers responded with the fact that they were addressing that specifically through that lens of, "yeah, humans are shitty, that's kinda the point of what this show is about in this context", but I don't know if the same thing applies... to the native portrays, even if they are deliberately Not Actual Native Americans and are instead fantasy "western" robots used to create a narrative that is shown as being indulgent and open for the guests to exploit but idk! They are still using the imagery! So...
Daniel Davis
oh shit this isnt pasta this
its called a 'theme park' for a reason
Hudson Reyes
Why don't you just watch all the episodes before you bore us with this wall of text, there aren't very many of them.
Josiah Lee
But if it's racist then that'll be all I'll be thinking about while watching it, and also my Liking A Racist Thing would mean I'd be Doing A Bad to my brain, I wouldn't be able to appreciate it without constantly issuing mental qualifiers. The only thing where I've been able to accept (albeit critically) occasional possible racist stereotypes is with some stuff in Homestuck given that I'd already been such a huge fan for so many years before I saw that being talked about... but this is a new thing, so!!!
Isaiah Cook
And like I say even if they are kinda critiquing it they are still functionally using racist imagery to create a familiar effect that re-enforces stereotypical imagery! In a flashback scene in this episode, a (robot) Native American scalped someone! Yes it was a robot but the imagery of Natives as "savages" was still there, and wasn't really critiqued in that moment, so... I don't know?
Gavin Campbell
This has to be a reddit copy-pasta.
Thomas Edwards
>ative American characters being portrayed and described as "violent savages",
But they were in contrast to Western ethics and morality at the time. Scalping enemy tribes, abducting people and forcing them into torturous rituals etc is the definition of violent savagery. Go pick up a history book idiot
I think you're missing the point, I think I'm just confused and anxious, which is why I made a thread.
Jackson Rogers
>a racist posts about everything is racist except themselves thread
Lucas Davis
I'm confident I received your poorly written point. You used the word 'racism' too many times for my post to not be relevant
Brandon Sanders
But isn't that already sort of what I'm doing here? I'm unsure if the framing means that this is a critique of racism rather than just racism. It might be the case that it is! I don't know!
Landon Wilson
It is easy to say this. You are probably white.
Jonathan Brown
If this were a real conundrum for you I don't see how you can support anything from the HBO network. Their programs of choice are always blatantly shocking in subject matter and themes for ratings political correctness be damned. A lot of the content on HBO past and present features racism, sexism, stereotypes. If you are conscious of these social themes and seek to avoid them why seek out HBO programs?
Samuel Flores
HBO desperately needs to answer these questions, since their entire show is about robot sex workers who act out roles from an openly racist, sexist time period. Unfortunately, the show takes a more retrograde attitude towards sex work overall, framing it as an inherently degrading act that no one would choose to do if they had free will.
Wyatt Cruz
I am not white. I am Irish. Lol
Angel Fisher
You are white then. I am white myself, but I acknowledge the inherent problematic themes of this show. These are themes they MUST change if they want to banish ignorance. Just look.
Westworld – colonial modernity / the colonial matrix of power / White Supremacy (Racism)
Guests – settlers / colonizers / White Supremacists (Racists).
Hosts – indigenes / colonized / non-white VoRs (Victims of Racism / White Supremacy).
Guests can act without fear of retaliation from the Hosts within (Westworld) ‘the park’ – White Supremacists (Racists) dominate all non-white people / VoRs under contemporary conditions of global White Supremacy (Racism).
Hosts are synthetic androids – the ontology (being, what-ness) of the colonized is an ‘othering’ construction of, by and for the colonizer.
Justin Mitchell
lolling at that profile pic, what a fucking fag
Noah Miller
>inherent problematic themes make your bait more subtle nigger lover
Zachary Hughes
Did you really say that word?? DID YOU ACTUALLY? Wow you need to be in jail. You are disgusting. You are soo disgusting.
Tyler Sullivan
Listen, it's a pretty pleb show. I wouldn't overthink it.
Anyway, two of the main characters are black, isn't that enough for you people?
Nicholas Gutierrez
Why do you talk in terms of "enough"? Like PoC are just a burden?
No two people are not "enough". There will never be "enough" given what we as whites have done throughout history. If they really wanted to condemn white supremacy as a show, they should have made every main character a PoC. But as it is, Westworld decided to embrace ignorance.
