Okay faggots the rules are simple, leave aside the most overpowered characters of both and keep the discussion focused on the weapons-fleets-ships.
Aside how broken the fucking Jedi and Sith are, most of the star trek characters should get wiped out, same as the Fleets considering a single Eclipse Class can wipe out the entire Federation Fleet.
>Jedi and Sith broken
>literally all but like 2 Jedi get owned by one blaster shot each
>Basing it on shitty prequels
KEK
>I don't like it so it isn't canon
In a scenario that took at least a good decade of planning to accomplish
Puny ships.
>ships the size of a fucking continent
How can nu-trek even compare?
>considering a single Eclipse Class can wipe out the entire Federation Fleet
No.
Constitution class ships (i.e. TOS-era federation ships) could destroy entire planets
[Citation Needed]
Oh no! Star Wars ships are so big and impressive! How could a Star Trek ship even hope to take on something that big?!!!
Sure, primitive planets with no defensive capabilities.
star trek can time travel
they automatically win
The weapons tech used on Star Wars ships is bullshit compared to the defence capabilities of Star Trek ships.
They use lazors and that don't do nothing. you can shoot like, a billion arrows at a tank and it won't help much.
Wars is on a scale completely beyond Trek.
And yes, Star Destroyers have shielding.
t. someone who has literally never seen an episode of star trek
They said it several times on TOS that the Enterprise could destroy the entire "inhabited surface" of a planet.
They could never, ever hope to take on something that could destroy an entire planet completely.
Oh, wait.
You can't really compare Star Trek and Star Wars in terms of who would win because it wouldn't be fair to Star Trek. Star Wars is Sci-Fi Fantasy and the science elements are only there to further the plot or achieve what is needed at the moment.
Star Trek is hard Sci-Fi that tries to be as grounded in reality as possible.
Star Wars lasers aren't really lasers. They're a super heated plasma in the form of bolts. They also do use lasers to be fair, and they also have proton based weapons.
V'ger could wipe out the Empire on a whim.
>one blaster shot each
If by "one" you mean hundreds....
The Eclipse must have been hilariously impractical. It would take like a day to get from one end of the ship to another.
Wrong on multiple levels.
1) Assumes no limit fallacy that any laser, regardless of power wouldn't over come Trek shielding
2) Assumes Wars turbolasers = regular laser when they clearly are not
3) A billion arrows (assuming an arrow weights 18 grams as per Google) would equal ~19,800 tons, which is more than enough to crush a tank so yes, a billion arrows shot at a tank would indeed kill the thing.
Star Destroyers could do the same thing, at least in the EU. That's what the Emperor used them for until all the planets in the galaxy wised up and started building shields, which is why he built the Death Star.
Aboard Star Destroyer: All lasers, target the Enterprise.
Aboard The Enterprise: "How quaint, they're using lasers. Shields up. Computer. Tea Earl Grey, hot.
I think time travel is pretty much Trek's only way of winning. Of course it runs into the counter-argument of Force Precognition but that varies between infallible and completely useless according the whims of the author and needs of the plot, so it's not a slam dunk either.
For pure ship vs ship stuff the tech used by SW just has much bigger numbers than the output of ST. I think one time someone put up an image comparing the weapons and shield of Lando Calrissian's personal pleasure yacht to the Enterprise (not sure which one) and his was slinging several times the firepower. Also went faster thanks to hyperdrive engines vs Warp.
>Star Trek is hard Sci-Fi that tries to be as grounded in reality as possible.
Ahahahahaha no.
Star Trek's science is laughably poor and it requires absolutely absurd energy generation just for things like replicators and transporters to work.
Arguing it is "more realistic" than Star Wars is like arguing Mars is more similar to a golf ball than Earth because it's smaller. Which is technically true but not true in any scale that actually matters.
And this is just for the ships and tech we see on it, not the bullshit celestial phenomena, time travel, or Q-type beings.
Trek is no less fantasy than Wars, it just has more fans who like to argue that it is.
I've seen more hours of Star Trek than days of your life.
>yfw you realize A New Hope ripped off the scene in this episode when Spock senses the deaths of the Vulcans on the ship that first encounters the amoeba.
Hahahaha, ST is hard scifi, please. ST and SW are both science fiction with a stress on the FICTION part. The only difference is the scale of the universe and the amount of technobabble bandied about. ST attempts to make everything sound like it could actually be a thing by using technical sounding terms but it's simply that, an appearance of the thing and not the actual thing. SW has been guilty of the same from time to time, but largely they realize their audience doesn't want an explanation they just want a good story.
beat me to it
Simplistic, and doesn't explore deeper lore. Obviously, Star Wars Lasers and Blasters are actually plasma weapons, with superheated tibanna gases fired through a laser containment grid.
That's why an Imperial Class Star Destroyer can literally vaporize an asteroid while the Enterprise-D couldn't get out of one by drilling with phasers and needed to use the Phasing Cloak from the Pegasus.
40k
A star destroyer is the size of an escort in 40k. All hail the Emperor.
Wrong about the scale there user, a Star Destroyer did a little more than destroy the "habital surface" of a planet, it melted the entire planetary crust into molten magma.
For anyone interested, look up a Base Delta Zero. That's quite a bit more hurt than what Kirk is describing.
They could destroy small asteroids. They couldn't destroy large asteroids like the Enterprise was trapped in, and one of them in fact destroyed the bridge of a Star Destroyer.
...
>beam torpedo aboard Death Star bridge because they don't have multi-phasic shielding
>detonate and move on to the next one
The Empire would get btfo by Starfleet. Every ship in the Federation is basically a floating laboratory with science crews who are constantly coming up with new ways to fuck with humanities enemies.
And even if you think the Empire would beat the Federation you're deluded if you think they could handle pic related.
>That Kid: The Fandom
Yeah nah you can go back to /tg/ with the other kids.
Would still lose to Admiral Adama though.
Either because Khorne has the biggest orgasm of his life and it destroys everything when Adama jumps into atmosphere, or because the Olmos glare is capable of liquefying both people and matter.
...
>and one of them in fact destroyed the bridge of a Star Destroyer
That can't be right. They have shields. Shields I tells you!!!!
Hi.
Eh, it's actually a toss up. WH40K and SW have roughly comparable levels of firepower and shielding
The Borg would overwhelm any star wars fleet. Other than destroying the death star there isn't really any military science used in SW.
Star Trek frequently comes up with scientfically tactical ways to achieve victory, where is Star Wars is just always about sheer force.
startrek would win since no empire ship in the history has hit anything also I think startrek phasers have like 10 times the range of starwars ones also don't forget wide beam phasers
>where is Star Wars is just always about sheer force.
Such as sending an elite squadron to target one specific weak point, or deploying an elite infantry unit to bring down the enemy facility that's powering the shields protecting the target they want to attack, or...
All that really matters is that Stargate would fucking destroy both of them.
no trek has way better techonology and they can actually hit targets
Again, hahahahaha.
We see transporters fail all the time:
Material is too dense, too much radiation, weird property of the week, the computer caught a cold (special mention to all bioneural gel pack ships), etc...
The odds favor the transporters being unable to to get past the armor on SW ships.
As to the Borg, they got bitched out by S8472, a species with limited numbers and planet busting capability compared to the Empire so no, they all still die in fire.
(Handy side note, S8472's victories against the Borg show concrete evidence that enough firepower > Borg adaptation, and the Empire is really good at hitting things very hard)
>small enough to transport into the center of the sun
Bye.
you do realise in trek they destroyed planets by accident
how is this even a question
in nu-trek Spock's research ship shot fucking black holes
>4 or 5 dreadnaught sized ships destroying a planet is comparable to a moon sized starbase that takes years to construct
Lolno
And 8472 defeating the Borg isn't confirmation of anything. Just that they have weapons the Borg can't adapt to. 8472 blasts don't look anything like Star Wars blasters.
that thing looks so stupid
>S8472, a species with limited numbers and planet busting capability compared to the Empire
Excuse me?
8472 could destroy a planet by chaining together a few ships, not by needing a giant space station.
The empire doesn't do any of that.
I'm currently watching Star Wars: The Clone Wars. I watched DS9 a few months back. I got a question that's not really about either.
So we have The Clone Wars, and we have the Dominion War. In SW, they have the Venator-class Star Destroyers, each one with a crew of ~7000. In the show I'm watching, those ships get destroyed in a rate of about three per episode.
Starfleet ships have a huge variance in crew size, but a galaxy-class ship has between 1000 and 6000 crewmembers.
My question is where the FUCK did they get so many bodies for all this? Like, I realize there's clones and stuff, but for them to die in the numbers it looks like they do, there'd have to be tens of millions of them, maybe more.
I think he's talking about the 40K Imperium of Mankind, where planets don't just get destroyed by accident, or eaten by things from hell, or blown up by aliens the Imperium actually makes a point of blowing them up if they get too far out of line or if they don't think they can salvage them, or because they want to build a firebreak against alien invasion a couple of light years wide.
Exterminatus comes up with rather depressing frequency in 40K fiction, because blowing up a planet is pretty cool but the authors get fixated on the idea.
Are you taking about the protomatter or red matter? Either way, 1 off mcguffins never seen of or heard from again. That also goes for Solaren's (sp?) supernova missile tech from Generations. The Federation lacks the tech (read: firepower) to consistently blow a planet apart as do the rest of the Alpha Quadrant powers. Hell, the Dominion (canonically stated to be ahead of any of the AQ powers and badass enough to stand against the Borg) didn't display any such abilities when it would have been useful for them to do so.
Biggest ship of all sci-fi ships
Can you please never post again? Not only is your claim that the Dominion has any encounters with the Borg proof you're relying on non canon information (anything not in a Star Trek episode or film is non canon PERIOD) but you've apparently not even watched Star Trek, where the Dominion in fact can jury rig a bomb to destroy not a planet but a star at will.
They do though. Like all the time.
Granted not so much in the movies where it's mostly superweapon of the weak stuff but the novels and comics show what else they get up to.
SW can marshal the population of almost an an entire galaxy and has a number of planets with stupid high populations.
>My question is where the FUCK did they get so many bodies for all this? Like, I realize there's clones and stuff, but for them to die in the numbers it looks like they do, there'd have to be tens of millions of them, maybe more.
Coruscant alone has 1 trillion people.
>the novels and comics
Never mind, this fucking idiot is just going to dredge up all his non canon fan fics.
Goodbye.
bye
The Star Wars Empire spans an entire galaxy marginally larger than our own Milky Way and seemingly the majority of the stars in it have habitable planets
And certain planets like Coruscant are ecumenopoli with a population near a trillion
Ships much smaller than it, such as the Malevolence, had speedy trams set up on the inside, and the elevators on the Invisible hand are incredibly fast. So if the CIS went that far for primarily droid crewed ships, the empire could definitely do much more
Learn to count, it's 9 ships (1 center with the other 8 ringed around it) and yes it does. They destroy a planet by focusing their power and literally blowing it away.
youtube.com
Although the destruction takes longer and is less impressive than what the Death Star does as you can see the debris cloud get a lot bigger a lot faster after the DS shot
don't forget destroying a planet isn't limited to the physical destruction you can wipe out the atmosphere liks sisco did in ds9 still leaves everyone on the planet dead
I'm not even using the Legends stuff Disney axed here. Rebels is canon and shows it, there are new novels and comics that show it.
You can be buttmad about it all you like but the movies only show a tiny fraction of what either the Rebels or Empire do.
>The odds favor the transporters being unable to to get past the armor on SW ships
Not really bro.
In ST we see shit teleported through shields all the time. All you need to do it are the shield frequencies of the ship in question. Hence the 'multi-phasic" aspect of the shielding. Shield frequencies are never mentioned in Star Wars and we see solid matter passing through them all the time making me think they're just some kind of energy field that deflects plasma weapons.
Star Trek teleporters would have no trouble getting through that interference. It might be difficult at first but O'Brien would just say some shit about adjusting the Heisenberg Compensators or whatever and bam, torpedo on the Grand Admirals lap.
The central ship is still unique, we have no clue how many they have. The Empire has more ways to slag a planet than just the Death Star. Even in the new SW canon.
And which was it that was destroyed at the end of the movie? V'ger.
this desu starfleet engineers can do anything they are like space MacGyvers
That would be the TARDIS actually, although it is possible there are bigger.
No it doesn't.
The Borg never "adapted" their planets. That's the first time the audience ever even saw a Borg planet.
We have no idea if it had comparable adaptive shielding like their ships and even then that's not confirmation they get past that adaptation by overpowering it. The simplest answer is that the Borg cannot adapt to 8472 which is exactly what the Borg say about them.
You're just making shit up you faggot. You're not even good at being a nerd.
Is the Federation hideously undermanned?
In terms of capital ships, they only ever fielded 12 Galaxy Class, two Sovereign Class, there were maybe a couple dozen ancient Constitution/Ambassador/Excelsior class ships still knocking around in the 24th century, and then everything else is just 100m to 200m medium ships like the Miranda class.
And when there's a horrible Federation-wide threat they can muster 40, 60, maybe 100 ships to any one sector to confront it depending on how much notice they have. The Klingon fleet has 1,500 warships (albeit most of them must be similarly smallish Birds of Prey) and apparently have near-parity with the Federation as well.
It just seems like they've got nothing to show for "spanning 8,000 light years and dozens of species"
Klingon Birds of Prey are the manlets of the Alpha Quadrant. The fucking runabouts from DS9 could probably give them a go.
>one destroyed the Enterprise-D
>Sneak attack with their shields disabled
Hardly counts.
Only after Malcolm McDonald turned Geordi's visor into a webcam that those two Klingon sluts used to find the Enterprise's shield frequency.
Thank god Riker was a quick thinker and used the plasma coil to save the day.
>Mixing Legends with Canon
This thread is shit. OP really should have layed down some specifics.
three of them also destroy the Enterprise in the Federation/Klingon war timeline
The shielding technology of Star Wars is far too powerful. The shields of Star Destroyer class ships is multi with ray, kinetic, thermal and etc. A turbolaser is rated in the gigaton range and 2x that for heavy turbolasers. Proton torpedoes are also much stronger than turbolaser bolts.
Even then, Star Wars ships run circles are Federation vehicles.
>1v1 me and see what happens
The shielding on Federation ships is virtually immune to lasers which form the primary offensive arsenal of Star Wars ships. Some meme ship like the Defiant could probably take the entire Imperial Fleet.
no starwars shields are shit you can fly fighters through them also the enterprise and all federation ships can hold locks on many independent ships
The thing is the Galaxy is near the peak of Federation firepower to the extent that only a dozen ever get built but the Klingon Empire shits out Birds of Prey
If just 36 Birds of Prey could wipe out the Galaxy fleet there'd be... I just realized why "Yesterday's Enterprise" is set in a timeline where the Klingons are about to completely dismantle the Federation.
Bro, if you wanna talk technical fluff from the books Star Trek obliterates Star Wars all fucking day.
A photon torpedo, for example is a matter-antimatter explosive about the size of a coffin. In IRL terms that alone is enough to destroy half a continent. What's more, they shoot those at each other at Warp 9.
Warp. Fucking. 9. That is 900x the speed of light. You wouldn't even need an explosive in the thing. Any object of that size moving at that velocity would destroy an entire star system on impact with anything in that system.
You can't go by the books bro. Those writers don't understand how shit actually works.
Do objects traveling at warp actually have momentum?
It seems like earth should have been obliterated the first time a shuttlecraft's computer fucked up if that's the case
Star Trek wins because Starfleet are good guys and The Empire are bad guys.
Just how retarded are you people?
Watch Endgame, the Borg have a presence in the Gamma quadrant, and the Dominion basically are the dominant presence there. Additionally the Dominion is older than the Collective. It is highly likely they have interacted and considering the militant nature of the Dominion and how the Borg dislike being challenged it follows reason that the two powers know about each other and the Dominion can resist Borg encroachments into their space.
As to the Dominion blowing up stars, they used materials already established to have those kinds of capabilities (trilithium from Soran's missiles in Generations, and protomatter from Wrath of Khan) so it wasn't something new and notice how they never tried to do something like that again. If the bomb could be contained on a runabout how hard would it have been for a changeling infiltrator to rig say Cardassia's sun to go nova should they fail to hold it, yet none of these things ever happen.
Blowing up a planet is rare in ST and a know capability in SW, it's really simple.
>the Enterprise is busy navigating the asshole of a planet sized space worm
>the Empire easily destroys every other ship in the federation and kills every random red shirt and asshole admiral
I have that Executor in the front and it's massive. The Eclipse in the back must be gargantuan. Shit I want one.
>lasers
they're not lasers brah. It's a bolt of plasma.
And you can't just say "immune to lasers" since a laser can be as powerful as you want it to be. It's like calling the Titanic unsinkable.
Really, adaptation? That's your whole thing. So you're saying the Borg would have adapted to planetary ejecta? Energy is energy and what was used to destroy the planet and the Borg ships around it came from the weapon used by S8472, but apparently you're too dumb to realize it. For a nerd you sure suck at science.
That is typical of Star Wars.
Everything isn't made better, it's just made bigger, yet contains all the faults of the smaller ones as well.
If Lucas was still on board... by Episode 9 we'd have a new Deathstar, but as big as a sun. But still one glaring flaw that would destroy the entire ship. This is pretty much the script of every SW movie. Big unstoppable item, find the one flaw to stop it.
Nope. That's what it was described as in the extended universe, but being that Disney killed the EU, and only the movies are canon now... it's back to being fucking lasers.
>you can fly fighters through them
This has never happened. Ever.
stardestroyer.net
It's not even a contest that Star Wars wins hands down.
?
See Shit's still getting bigger
TFA even had a helpful computer illustration of how tiny the old Death Star was
Yeah no, sufficiently intense EM radiation blocks transporters, SW ships regularly use jamming to mess with each other (noted multiple times in the movies), the transporters are highly unlikely to work. This is still ignoring the density issue transporters have and seeing as SW armor is neutronium impregnated it's going to be very dense and block transport beams just by its very existence.
>getting ray shields confused with kinetic
>Using that stupid ICS art book for calcs
It doesn't matter what numbers some guy puts down for the SW armor, it gets crushed by swinging trees in the movies and would likely have less protection for the pilot than a Toyota Prius.