This is a thread for leftists to discuss both theory and current politics. Liberals and right wingers are welcome, provided that they remain respectful.
A couple questions / topics to get this thread started:
>How should America respond to the Orlando shooting?
>How do you feel about the Green Party's new, "anticapitalist" platform? gp.org
>Do any of you support Trump, out of the spirit of accelerationism or otherwise?
Other urls found in this thread:
Why have we become so disenfranchised from the environmentalist movement from recent years?
I don't care about gay rights or feminism or any other social issues, why are there so few liberals activist for the the issues that really matter?
Climate change denial is rampant in American politics. That, along with the fact that both major parties are controlled by corporate interests, might explain the shift in focus away from environmentalism.
Environmentalism and anticapitalism are hard and lack the visceral thrill of turning around and kicking the shit out of your "fellow" leftist because he's a Fucking White Male.
Fuck off you pinko nigger
Why don't leftists oppose immigration? Ive never seen a leftist mention this issue
it's the #1 reason workers get shit on by corporations
if you make workers harder to replace by taking away the people competing for their jobs, it will be easier for them to negotiate wages.
Fuck you, parasites.
Because leftists are inherently weak and illogical. They are simply unable to make hard decisions and instead they just placate everybody. (Which never works)
Also disenfranchises minority American citizens and subjects them to higher rates of gangs, drugs, and welfare
Why is this okay?
another meme stolen by leftypol
>remain respectful
>politically incorrect sub
>Sup Forums
By leftist, we mean anticapitalist. Immigrants taking our jerbs wouldn't be a problem if workers owned the means of production collectively and thus weren't at the mercy of the capitalist system, in which wage labor is necessary for survival. Demand for labor would have nothing to do with compensation in a socialist system. The only result of a decrease in demand for labor would be a decrease in working hours for all, since under socialism, every able-bodied person would be employed.
As for why bourgeois liberals are so afraid to call for immigration control? They're obsessed with virtue signalling and refuse to acknowledge the realities of capitalism.
We all already live together as far as I'm concerned. I see border and immigration laws as an infringement on the basic human liberty of bodily autonomy.
But this kind of philosophy cannot be put to practice with the current system in place
How do you feel that the majority of leftists are rich white kids while most of the working class is right wing?
Hi guise.
I realize that expecting fascists to respect leftists is naïve at best, but it was worth a shot. If people choose to be uncivil, we can just refuse to reply.
And how are things in Brazil? You guys still having riots against government corruption?
Lefty Sup Forums will never be a thing. Go back to plebbit nigger
Is it just me or do Muslims act like the Borg, they muslimimate people, worship a cube and even have admiral ackbar from Star Trek. The Freemason grand master seal is a Vulcan symbol, so is this just fucking Star Trek? Like niburu was in it thats tin foil Planet X, so like if that's true, you'd be being ruled by emotionless species and attacked by robot mind.
things have calmed down
it's still shitty
TLDR dont elect a left wing president
Well what do we do?
I think it's obvious that a strong and active grassroots movement is needed if we plan to continue.
But that's not enough, the movement needs to stress the fact that humans are completly dependent on nature and that environmental issues are human issues.
I pity working-class conservatives. They've been duped by capitalist rhetoric. My only hope is for them to attain class conciousness and realize that these politicians who claim to look out for the working class are actually their oppressors.
And as for leftists being overwhelmingly white and bourgeois...well, due the socioeconomic inequalities inherent in society (due to capitalism), these are the people most likely to receive the education necessary to break through reactionary, anti-communist rhetoric.
This is why I abandoned leftism.
This.
>socialism
see how well that's worked in latin and south america, china and russia, how tens of millions of people have died
obligatory yuri
youtube.com
capitalism is the only system that works, why should i be brought down to the level of the people that did not good majors in college, never went to college, never finished high school, don't work as hard as me, don't have the credentials i am striving towards in hope of a good life, aren't as intelligent as me, can't program, can't do math, have no ambitions in life, why should i pay for the sins of other people, capitalism is you get out what you put in, not this pie in the sky idealism that we'll all hold hands and sing kumbaya and that everyone is inherently altruistic and virtuous when all the world is strong evidence to the contrary. yuri goes into how cultural marxism pervades american and western academia and media, greater than the soviets could have ever hoped for or imagined
seriously kill yourself.
you are all cancer.
Politicians are almost universally corrupt. It isn't just the left-wing ones. Besides, electing politicians requires there to be a state, which isn't the end goal of most types of leftism. I hope things get better for y'all down there, though.
>well what do we do
Smash the state and seize the means of production so that we can manufacture only what we need instead of allowing consumerism to destroy our planet?
>tfw you were born free
>tfw you can do whatever you want, whenever you want
>tfw you are the product of your own actions
>tfw today you could start a company or a heroin addiction, and the consequences of both are yours to choose
>tfw fulfilled at work and in life out of a strong work ethic and strong moral values instilled by parents
Capitalism is good vibes. Why give it up?
it wasnt just corruption that took the economy down;
the goddam-I-hope-I-never-see-her-again useless idiot that was in power made extremely poor decisions when managing the economy, instead of taking the goddam easy conservative way of things
sage ;)
Would you please just line up against this wall here?
Venezuela and China weren't socialist, they were state capitalist. The workers did not have direct control over the means of production. You could argue that Russia was state capitalist as well, but the workers did have marginal control. And given all of the wars and other external pressures the USSR had to face, you could argue that it did pretty well. It used to be a superpower, and Russia, it's successor, still is.
>capitalism is the only system that works
What about nature? We already ultimately depend on nature for everything, we will never be able to exploit nature long term, but we can consider ourselves as a part of that system. I'm not talking about hunter gathering, I'm talking about wise devolpment and efficient agriculture. I'm talking about a world were cash value is no longer how we measure worth, but instead look to the resources intrinsic value to our lives and the impact we are making on the system that supports us
Sage
America should respond to the Orlando shooting by doing the following:
1) Restricting gun sales to anyone on the Terrorism Watch List. This is obvious. Add a watch list appeal process for those who believe they are being improperly restricted.
2) Requiring psychiatric evaluation before issuing firearms to anyone. Sorry faglords, the second amendment does not give loonies the right to buy guns at a drive thru window.
3) Collaborating with Google, Facebook, and other technology companies to determine if there are obvious patterns of behavior that precede these shootings. From there a discussion should be had on what indicators could be monitored that do not violate a legitimate interest of privacy.
The idea that this is about ISIS or Islam is stupid. This is about a mentally ill and deranged person, similar to nearly every other shooter. Crazy people tend to appeal to extremist movements and identify with them, this is not an uncommon thing. Many mentally ill people identify with ISIS without even understanding what ISIS actually is.
Green Party
Their platform is trash and they are not a legitimate voice of the Left. They are too focused on childish issues and are like the Republicans in that regard. Their platform is also not new, it is a repeat of things they have said before.
The actual real Left movement is going on inside the Democratic party. There is no reason to pay attention to any party other than the Republican or Democratic party in the United States. It is a two party system. If you want to be an adult and not a retard, you join the Democratic party and link up with the wings that best support the positions you have on the Left.
Trump
Are you kidding? There is no reason to support him at all. Trump is a god send for the left, he will cause house/senate to fall to Democratic control. Clinton will not have to compromise at all on Supreme Court Appointments and can just pick the most leftist judges in history.
Why wouldn't you be an independent if you live in an open primary state?
ignore shill and DARPA threads
This is why leftist politics are synonymous with identity politics now. You seem to be able to diagnose all of the problems with society but your only solutions are these memes.
Because workers do not get to see the full product of their own labor under capitalism. They receive less value from their employers than their labor contributes. This excess value is where a large portion of corporate profit comes from. They are exploited by the corporations that own the means of production. Business owners are an unnecessary middleman in the production process, since the means of production could just be owned collectively, by the workers, and operated for the collective gain of society instead of the gain of a few wealthy, connected capitalists.
sage..
>your only solutions are these memes
This is a joke, right?
>its da jews, gas the kikes race war now!
>the day of the rope is coming
>nuke the middle east
>white genocide
>you are LITERALLY getting cucked right now
yea, the left are the ones memeing lel
>on Sup Forums
>mad at memes
oh boi am I laffin
The environmentalist movement needs to get less radical. We need to present the issues in a rational way, as they really are. Nonpartisan human issues.
Your TLDR is one word shorter than all the rest of the words in your post combined. I'm not including the "TLDR" part. Anyway, thanks for saving me time on that. I hate having to read a long thing just to get no information.
i used it because i didnt want to make a wall of text. i thought i could use in this situation though
Your points in favor of gun control are well reasoned and insightful, which is rare to see, at least amongst liberals
I have to agree with you on the Greens. They're idealistic at best, infantile at worst.
>we care about the environment but nuclear is bad herp derp
Personally, I'm hoping that Trump gets elected and helps build sympathy for the radical left while in office. Bourgeois politics is useless anyway
1) By removing kebab
2) Who gives a fuck about the Green Party? Let me know when they actually get into a position of power
3) Why the hell not? The only other option is the whore of Wall Street. I just wanna see the media implode on itself after a Trump victory
What would even be the point of /leftypol/? You can already say the most hardcore leftist things imaginable, and it would still be considered moderate in a few months.
Must be part of their infinite persecution complex, and doublethink hypocrisy.
You can, he's just being an ass.
Revisionist! /s
I am actually memeing, if only a little bit. I do think that the ultimate goal should be to transition from capitalism to community and worker control, but I'm not super keen on violent revolution. We'd all get droned.
>How should America respond to the Orlando shooting?
Mourn and move on. Enforce laws already in place. Mass shootings like this are such a small percentage of gun deaths they're statistically insignificant. It's irrelevant to gun control discussions.
>How do you feel about the Green Party's new, "anticapitalist" platform?
They've always been anti-capitalist, just like the Democratic party.
>Do any of you support Trump, out of the spirit of accelerationism or otherwise?
I will vote for Trump this election. The Republican party does not represent my beliefs and it either needs to change or a new party born. I don't give a shit about abortion or gays being gay, and I don't want it as a central platform of anything I support. What I do care about is limited government and the rights of the people. If we didn't dole out benefits to every border jumper I wouldn't even get upset about immigration. But you can't run a welfare state and then open the whole damn thing up to the world to eat. You can't just decide that people don't really need a real wage and just replace them with cheap foreign labor. And you certainly can't expect citizens to put up with that when they have so many regulatory and tax barriers to starting their own businesses. We're losing the free market economy so vital to the success of capitalism in America. And if he burns it to the ground at least I'll be here to watch.
Roll thread?
>Mourn and move on. Enforce laws already in place. Mass shootings like this are such a small percentage of gun deaths they're statistically insignificant. It's irrelevant to gun control discussions.
>In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”
I actually think removing all weapons in a similar manner to Australia or UK would likely stop most of these and so many other gun deaths as well. But even worse is then the American people would have no armed recourse against a tyrannical government. This reason alone trumps the gun grabbers in my opinion because a time will come that guns are needed, it was the purpose of including the second amendment into our bill of rights. Our guns literally protect our freedom.
The democratic party isn't anti-capitalist, and the fact that you believe that is laughable. Both major parties are pro-corporate. Bernie, a lifelong independent, and as such isn't relevant here. But Hillary supports the goddamn TPP, and the Obama administration bailed out "too big to fail" banks and companies. There is no significant left in America, unfortunately.
How can you rationalize voting for a climate denier?
1) Cartels smuggle guns across the poorly secured border all the time
2) We'll need guns when it comes time for revolution
To combat the anticommunist propaganda that's so prevalent in Western society?