Is Technical Hip Hop or Prog Rap a thing?

Is Technical Hip Hop or Prog Rap a thing?

Pic unrelated i guess

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I certainly hope not

Prog rap exists but it isn't a thing yet.

Prog rap is an oxymoron because rap is inherently regressive and reductionist.

If folk can do it rap can too
>I have a music degree so don't be a moron asshole

Rap is overly fixated on the lyrics, while these genres are heavily fixated on the music.
So I doubt it, closest thing to any of this is like Death Grips and they aren’t even close, they’re closer to Noise Rock or digital hardcore or something

I wish. I've been telling people about this for years but everyone makes fun of me. It's gotta happen at some point. It is literally the only way that hip-hop will become interesting. Concept rap album with epics that go through different movements, time signatures, feels as well as just as much effort and thought put into the instrumental as the lyrics. So much hip-hop (in history too) has relied too heavily on loops and could really benefit from dynamic, more lively beats to maintain interest in the listener, and support the lyrics throughout the song better

>don't be a moron asshole
>has a music degree

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Prince_Among_Thieves
This will be regarded as the most avant-garde hip-hop masterpiece in history if you're right (and I think you might be, but I don't think many hip-hop artists have the musical theory background to pull it off effectively).

Yeah, big pun

I thought this was a new underground album.

cLOUDDEAD

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>he still listens to words and not just flow and diction

This. And this.

Also Ill add that the progressive in this context has a significance that applies specifically to prog rock. Note the rock? Progressive rap is the wrong away around ; it should start with rock; with heavy rap elements before it even has a smidgen of chance of being prog rock. However as these anons said, the vocally oriented and regressive nature of rap means it is almost impossible to apply to rock in the context of progressive rock.

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I still have to check this album out! Gonna listen right now
>but I don't think many hip-hop artists have the musical theory background to pull it off effectively
I honestly do believe that Kendrick is not that far off (he at least seems to have the work ethic to get good at it if he really wanted) and is already around the right musicians that could pull it off

Flip the terms a bit and your thread will make more sense - Prog Hop and Technical Rap

Endtroducing is probably the perfect example of Prog Hop, or hip hop taken to its once natural conclusion.
There are countless examples for technical rap, but I'll throw down Organized Konfusion and Aesop Rock for examples that come straight to my head.

>rockists found the thread

Thats exactly the thing though; a hip hop album that does manage to borrow some prog rock style techniques and blend genres on a complex level still wouldnt be progressive. This definition of progressive only applies to prog rock; so such experimental jazz would just be avant garde.

I mean the only genre where the term progressive implies complexity and experimentation is prog rock and more recently prog metal. Metal gets away with it because its broadly speaking, also rock.

Experimental hip hop i mean. I guess im just so unused to the concept of hip hop being creative in any way.

listen to uhh Clipping's newest album. Especially the last song.

I don't think it needs to blend genres more than classic hip hop already has (jazz, soul, funk). It is more the formatting of it I am hoping will evolve to incorporate more time signatures (all hip hop has known is 4/4 since the beginning), more dynamic beats (less reliance on looping), and overall more care and meticulousness put in to the instrumentals so they are always supporting the lyrics and the movement of the song as best as possible. It doesn't have to be called progressive hip hop, it was just what I assumed OP meant

That makes sense, but I don't see a reason why you couldn't have "prog hop" for the same reasons. I'll admit there is extremely few records that fit that sort of criteria in hip hop but Endtroducing fits them for suuuuure.

Well said. Im curious if there are rap records that make use of different time signatures. I think clipping might have once, but I don't remember myself.

Best response ITT.

"Progressive" in the rock and metal world means something very specific now: usually implying changing or complex time signatures, virtuosic playing, long and/or complex, multi-part song structure, etc.

Literally all of these could be applied to hip hop, but no examples really come to mind. If you really want to stretch, a long, changing and interestingly structured song like Runaway could almost count. The autotune "solo" section makes me think of a technical, "wanky" prog guitar solo even.

When you think about pushing a genre forward, you have to think about what's special about the genre. The thing that makes hip-hop unique from other genres is the vocal delivery, but you can only subdivide so many syllables in so many different meters before it gets stale. The most revolutionary thing that has happened in hip-hop recently is the popularization of the shift from an eighth note cadence to an eighth note triplet cadence. That's it.

>The thing that makes hip-hop unique from other genres is the vocal delivery

The use of sampling/breaks is arguably more important and what separates the genre from others.

Its honestly even more specific than just a bunch of weird wanky techniques. The sophistication of genre fusing has to meet a certain threshold too.

So as this user said:
Most hip hop artists can never acheive such an in depth level of genre fusion.

sample based music has been around since tape was invented. I'd argue that hip-hop uses sampling in the most uninteresting way, by just placing drum machines over an unedited sample. maybe it's the most popular sample based music out there, but breakcore and glitch artists have been using samples in much more interesting ways

I dunno man, this is where it gets kind of tricky. When I think of current "progressive" hip-hop albums and stuff like TPAB, the use of samples/breaks seems secondary to the actual instrumentation (think of Thundercat's bass on Wesley's Theory).

About time signatures, Tyler the Creator's new album, Flower Boy, has a few track with time signature changes. It's got really interesting melodies & hooks too, and is styled more like an R&B or jazz album than straight rapping. One of the best cuts on the album is a 6/8 neo-soul song with a jazz guitar lead.

Although I'm not that big on the album, Garden Shed is completely a highlight and a really cool direction for Tyler and hip hop in general (when the synth line comes in it almost reminds me of Wish You Were Here-period Pink Floyd). The rest of the album apart from a couple other tracks really bores me though and doesn't have that much replay value for me