Heavy metal is a world of its own, and even critics in their 30s who grew up listening to AOR like Led Zeppelin and Quiet Riot seldom retain a serious affectation for the stuff. Rock intellectuals invariably prefer punk, alternative, even hip-hop and their disdain rankles the metal faithful. The phallic narcissism of metal has few parallels outside of X-rated movies, toilet art, and (oh yes) hip-hop.
As one of those rock intellectuals, I remain unconverted. It never seems to occur to metal enthusiasts that metal's melodramatic, reverb-drenched strain is precisely what rock and roll was put on Earth to save us from.
He's correct. Metal is wank for kids pretending to be edgy. It's children's music.
Andrew Sanders
Metal is the genre fiction of music.
Carter Torres
>can't comprehend the fact that someone might just enjoy the music on it's own merit without caring about any of the aesthetics
Sebastian Bell
There is no merit, unless you're a child mentally.
Cooper Thomas
>punk >intellectual Punks (real punks, mind you) are some of the most low-IQ junkie retards I've ever had the displeasure of knowing. I used to live with some a few years ago. They were filthy junkies who wouldn't shut the fuck up about their backwards political beliefs. They didn't bathe very often either.
Easton Ward
>Rock intellectuals
James Perez
>there is no merit t. low test nu male logic
Kayden Miller
the word on his shirt has an extra apostrophe and is missing an 'O'
Nicholas Sanchez
Uh...just what makes punk and hip-hop more mature, adult, and intellectual than metal?
Nathan Wood
They aren't. Critics are mainly English majors who can't deal with metal because it relies mainly on instruments to get the message of the song across. Punk and hip-hop are mostly lyrics-driven, so critics "get" them.
Adrian Harris
Everything
Ryder Garcia
I thought he liked hip-hop
Cooper Howard
>metal >reverb drenched what the fuck is this guy on
Kevin Collins
"Grrr I fill these thugs with sixteen slugs/I slap that ho on mah dick"
Is real intellectual songwriting, no?
Andrew Long
>rock intellectuals
Matthew Roberts
Cuckgau has shown many many times that he has absolutely no understanding of metal's message, purpose, or even its fanbase.
Jayden Long
Neither do I, what are they actually
Parker Campbell
Metal is very romantic music which is considered uncool nowadays because it emphasizes emotion more than smarts. I guess the rather fantastic themes seem cheesy to everyone except the nerdier crowd too, or just simply not relateable. But it's ok, not everything you listen to has to be cool or smart as long as you enjoy it!
Brayden Reed
He seems to have this idea that metalheads are football jocks/meatheads like the kind who used to kick the shit out of him in high school when jocks don't listen to metal, they listen to Top 40 and buttrock/buttrap. Metal fans are usually stoners, D&D nerds, and other social outcasts.
Luis Brown
if you listen to metal just go get laid already ffs
shave the beard, hit the gym, throw out the anime, ditch the fedora and flame shirt
Levi Harris
Metal is a nerd's idea of romanticism, hip hop is a jock's
Chase Cook
BOBOS?
Jacob Hernandez
>I guess the rather fantastic themes seem cheesy to everyone except the nerdier crowd too, or just simply not relateable Most of that shit is disguised social commentary anyway.
Aaron Foster
>nu metal and Limp Bizkit never existed
Aaron Hall
Serious music fans don't listen to metal, it's a punchline in music circles.
>incomprehensible screaming about mommy taking the xbox or lord odin smiting all the niggers >10 minute fast but tuneless guitar solo
Xavier Hill
>serious music fans
Caleb Roberts
Unless you live in a Nordic country, where it's just another part of mass pop culture, no joke
Lucas Richardson
He's talking about 80s hair metal probably
Jeremiah Gonzalez
>itt people who thinks that 'intellectuality' fucking matters lol
Dominic Williams
It is if you're a pretentious wannabe hipster like Christgau.
Easton Peterson
Nah, fat rednecks mostly listen to metalcore actually. Thrash is mostly urban/suburban and international audience.
Hell, Thrash's international audience (some of which extends slightly to other genres, too but mostly thrash) is probably one of the coolest indicators of metal's ability to be able to speak through the music alone. Like, international kids can't relate to fucking idk...living in black dominated american ghetto or w/e "establishment" punks decide to rail against. Nor will some indie music about suburban problems, not problems about muh technology like OK Computer considering how much tech helps those guys. There's probably a very good chance a lot of these guys are living far worse lives than any of this shit white people music complains about. Doesn't help that many of these people can't into English. This is where metal comes into play because the lyrics and themes are secondary while the MUSIC is first. Thus why metal's got a far larger influence outside the anglosphere compared to other non-mainstream music.
Carter Morris
There's punk and hip-hop all over the world as well, but because they're both lyrics-driven genres, they don't translate as well internationally.
Joseph Ross
He's never listened to Fear of the Dark by Maiden
Jordan Myers
>Nah, fat rednecks mostly listen to metalcore actually Or they did ten years ago--that shit has mostly been replaced by trap now.
Carter Lopez
>and yet he gave Reign In Blood a B+ What.
Jason Richardson
tl;dr Christgau was full of shit when he said only white males listen to metal when it has a global following with people of all colors and nationalities.
Zachary Richardson
>muh shitty hardcore punk influences
Asher Wilson
Probably because RIB is a fast, sloppy, and, well, silly album almost bordering on self-parody. The thing is that Christgau has this obsession with the idea that rock has to be fast and sloppy, anything too slick and precise he thinks is false and pretentious. He's also said that he thinks Phil Spector ruined rock and roll by making it too overproduced and bombastic.
Nathan Bell
Oh yeah for sure. I do always wonder if a hip hop group like Uochi Toki would've gotten more love considering they did Death Grips before Death Grips. I still occasionally see fat scene chicks wearing A Day To Remember stuff whenever I gotta take bus or train down south for work if clients are there.
Noah Cox
I don't mind hip-hop but punk is very tedious and boring to listen to.
Mason Moore
Didn't he also think that The Who should have just kept remaking TWSO forever?
Jordan Campbell
didn't he write that in the 80s or something?
Tyler Rogers
No and I don't plan on it. Fuck metal. I've listened to enough of it to determine I don't care for it. You'll likely grow out of it, and hip hop too.
Aiden Gonzalez
Yes. Someone emailed Christgau in the early 2000s asking why he downgraded Who's Next from A to A- in "Consumer Guide to the '70s". He replied that "I gave the album an A in the original review, but I dropped it slightly in 'Consumer Guide'. This was after seeing the band's later career unfold. I recently listened to Who's Next for the first time in a decade and although it wasn't so obvious in 1971, all the warning signs were there including the winding song structures, synth noodling, and Roger Daltrey's histrionic vocals. I still maintain that The Who Sell Out was their one truly great albu."
Jose Price
>tfw he's right
Christopher Davis
Whatever. The times changed. Everyone went to fat, bloated stadium rock/prog epics in the 70s. You couldn't keep making 1965's music in 1973.
Bentley Scott
Even in the 80s that would have been a bullshit statement.
Carson Collins
ITT: soyboys who can't into metal
Jordan Smith
>soymeme kys fash
Dylan Reyes
>rock intellectuals
>I only listen to mature music for mature people such as myself You sound fun
Kayden Rodriguez
It was kind of inevitable. The Who were basically just kids in 1965-67, by the early 70s they were pushing 30 and with more experience/maturity, Pete Townshend wanted to do gradually bigger and more ambitious compositions than just three chord rock. Unfortunately, as Christgau noted in his review of "It's Hard", Townshend's musical ideas would never catch up to his lyrical ones.
Andrew Reed
>serious music fans The only "serious" genres of music are those that require a deep knowledge to fully appreciate, like classical. If you listen to exclusively to indie or hip hop, you're no more serious than metalheads
Jeremiah Torres
>If you listen to exclusively to indie or hip hop, you're no more serious than metalheads
Yeah you're right. Christgau's lack of self-awareness is pretty comical.
Anthony Brooks
But it's true. Nu-males like you can't stand their own testosterone, nevermind others. No "go back to Sup Forums" can save you from your growing mammary glands and receding hairline.
Easton Roberts
Anecdote but all the people I know who are into metal are from broken households. Nothing wrong with that but this music's clearly an escape for them
Jack Torres
Any kind of "head" is retarded by default. Genre elitism is cancer.
Leo Cook
>look at me, I'm a big boy who only listens to serious music for mature adults.
Landon Anderson
you can say the same thing about hip hop
Adam Taylor
Heck, so are punk and hip-hop fans.
Chase Bailey
Christgau has an incredibly diverse taste in music, especially compared to the average Sup Forumstant who seems to only listen to 60-90s Anglo pop music
James Ortiz
Hip-hop is largely a normalfag genre. Heavy metal, not really
Anthony Watson
That wasn't the point though. The point was more that genre elitism is silly and claiming that metal is retarded wank for children while punk is totally mature, adult, intellectual music...yeah.
Cameron Ortiz
What does Christgau listen to that doesn't fall under the umbrella of 60-90's Anglo pop music?
Wyatt Rodriguez
Townshend notably complained he was in a "band full of hooligans", which makes his work all the more interesting because he was very clearly experimenting with stuff like noise rock in 1965 and the strength of his composition is how well he wrote around the band.
Julian Rodriguez
>metal >not really Big 4 thrash, nu-metal, alt metal and classic heavy metal bands are pretty damn normalfag. The hell are you on about? I was talking about more of the political and conscious side of hip hop, which is the vast majority. Not the trap garbage we have now.
Carter Young
Besides, he's notoriously provincial. He doesn't "get" European music for the most part and thinks they mutilated rock and roll, and the more New York an artist is, the better.
Christopher Harris
>I was talking about more of the political and conscious side of hip hop, which is the vast majority. Not the trap garbage we have now. Big deal. Hip-hop has always been split between political/social consciousness stuff and in da club party tunes.
Christopher Baker
The hundreds of different of genres encompassing African music, various Brazilian and South American genres like tropicalia and brasileira, Reggae, pre-1960s jazz, pre-1960s blues, rockabilly, doo-wop, rhythm and blues
Colton Peterson
why do people like you even come to Sup Forums when you hate good music
Asher Murphy
Based
Xavier Baker
To be fair, Christgau never paid any attention to non-American black music until the 80s when it became cool for critics to like reggae and South African protest shit.
Lucas Torres
Like his review of Post?
Jackson Lewis
He paid plenty of attention to Reggae even before the mid 70s when it was brought over to the US and UK. As for African music, no duh, very few people could get their hands on African music until stuff like Soweto came out, and that was spearheaded by fans with connections whom wanted African music to get a wider appeal in the Western world (something which Christgau helped with, what with his glowing review of Omona Wapi). To frame it as it suddenly became "cool" to like it rather than critics being exposed to a completely unique and different musical soundscape is laughable child cynicism.
That was also in the 80s, this is 2018 where you can find entire albums of Franco, Ade, Rochereau etc on youtube, what's the braindead Sup Forumstant excuse?
Isaiah Brooks
Fuck off. Right wingers cant like music too? Grow a pair of balls, not tits you commie piece of shit, and maybe give metal a chance while you're at it. Or keep on guzzling soy and semen, your choice.
Henry Morgan
You are probably the one who hates on music, especially on metal, and there's plenty of good metal. I actually don't give a damn about what genre certain music is, good music is good music. But people like you who are too afraid of "heavy" stuff disregarding it with a sense of superiority irks me a lot.
Luke Carter
are you fucking retarded? then you are agreeing with me, don't tell me that most people who listen to hip hop don't come from broken households or use such music as escapism.
Asher Clark
Yeah yeah I get you had to import music in the 80s. Still, he looked pretty ridiculous claiming that only meathead white males listen to metal when it had a fanbase all over the world even at that time. If you can get imported South African cassettes, surely you could do likewise with Brazilian or Japanese metal. Oh wait, that wouldn't fit his pre-conceived stereotype of metal fans.
Dylan Allen
>Right wingers cant like music too? you're not a right winger lol. you're just edgy and contrarian
nice projection there buddy but i actually listen to metal. i have literally no idea where you got the idea that "i'm afraid of heavy music"
Dominic Sullivan
Completely irrelevant to the point. Furthermore the fact that you opined that people only liked non 60-90s anglo pop due to ulterior motives is a perfect showcase of a small minded music taste.
Brody Walker
White hipsters have always had this weird idea that black people are some kind of toad you lick to gain wisdom. It's actually borderline racist and they don't realize it.
Yeah and yall want to genocide and kick them out of the country. Fuck you.
Nicholas Bell
>reverb drenched Not even a metalhead but it's pretty obvious he's talking about 80s hair metal.
Asher Clark
Christgau by his own admission knew very little about black music when he first started, his perspective was very white rock/pop oriented. It took years, but eventually he championed hip-hop and also black music from other countries.
Jaxon Gomez
Metal is the food analogy of rock music
Isaiah Lopez
By it's own design metal is very niche, and designed to appeal to a minority people. The fact that so many people "don't get" metal, and look on it with disdain is entirely the point.
John Morgan
Wha...you think punk is any bit less niche and elitist?
Carter Johnson
>By it's own design metal is very niche, and designed to appeal to a minority people Forgetting how massive that metal was in the 80s? Back then, metal bands were packing arenas.
Carter Johnson
yes but it went off the deep end somewhere after Slayer, where "metalheads" started demanding more br00tal edgy grindy grimdark stuff which eventually distanced it from good music and made it really stupid and overly edgy. And Pantera played a role too, Pantera is what the Sup Forumsfags these days worship like REAL hardcore music for drunk manly men to fight to, it's embarrassing.
Colton Lewis
>Intellectuals believe... >As one of those intellectuals... Is there a single more pretentious fuck on planet earth?
Joshua Thompson
Eh? Pantera if anything ruined metal by turning it into drunk barroom brawl garbage.
Daniel Nelson
Yeah you'd think a guy who makes his living writing about children's music would be a little less stuck-up.
Elijah Hernandez
>Rock intellectuals invariably prefer punk, alternative, even hip-hop
Wew lad. That one never gets old.
Dylan Gonzalez
This. Its larping desu.
Oliver Evans
Wew, you really enlightened us with your arguments
Lincoln Watson
Showmanship, musicianship and at the same time being extremely visceral music. Turn it up to 11, over the top, fuck yeah, not taking yourself seriously, not caring about being cool and just having fucking fun.
Logan Harris
Can we purge boomers from this site please
Fuck Sup Forums for bringing you old fucktards in here
Jaxson Ross
Demonstrably so. While hardcore and extreme punk is still made today, most of it is watered down and radio friendly. Compared to extreme metal genres like black, death and grind, punk is no where near as inaccessible. I should have specified I'm talking about extreme metal here. Though today, bands that would have filled arenas wouldn't see anywhere near the popularity they did then. You've missed my point. By being "more br00tal edgy grindy grimdark stuff which eventually distanced it from good music", extreme metal finds it's niche. And while it can certainly take this aesthetic to ridiculous levels, the musician ship can still be top notch. Take Scar Sighted for example, the entire album was made by one man.
Evan Sullivan
Nah politics has nothing to do with this. And certainly nothing to do with the fact that older popular music is infinitely better than modern popular music and gives non normie modern music a run for its money too. Hell, black music used to be better too.