Writing lyrics

Any of you songwriters out there got any tips for writing lyrics?
I’m allegedly a decent writer, but all of that feedback was from teachers and about essays. Never written anything good that could be sung though.

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>Never written anything good that could be sung though
what's wrong with what you've written?

I've written some good stuff while high. Everything I write when I'm sober sounds too planned out, unless I'm just improvising.

melody & vocals > lyrics

>too planned out
what do you mean?

depends

Just too intentional. It isn't spontaneous is what I'm trying to say.

So? We still need to write lyrics and have them not be shit.

Kinda like what said. It all seems too awkward and forced. Specifically I’ve heard someone describe Lorde’s lyrics as “effortless poetry” or something, but I’m the opposite.

i guess that just doesn't sound bad to me
what genre/style are you going for?

bob dylan and mouhbtain goats a shit

when you're writing, do you know what sort of emotion you're trying to elicit?
to me that's the most important thing to know. let everything serve that purpose and let rhyme and other poetic devises come second

Freak folk.

Basically when I'm not baked my lyrics sound cliche ridden, when I'm high I can just spit stuff out that always sounds good, and then I can fix it when I'm sober. The strange thing is, though, the stuff I write when I'm high sounds far more concise then what I write in my default mental state. It's like being sober causes me to fall back more on improvisation, whereas I've written some really great hooks while stoned.

those two were literally the exact examples i was going to counter with if pressed.
point still stands though. they have fans

>implying what you're saying is important
>implying the only thing that matters in music is the emotions it evokes

avoiding cliches is essential

you got a bandcamp or something?
link me a song dude

I appreciate and get that, but I think actually getting words that would fit to music is where I lose it.
Would you say doing something like writing down ideas and then going back and fitting them to music could help? Or do you mostly write it for music on the moment?

Like what?

>implying that if you replaced the lyrics to your favorite song with "PEE PEE POO POO PEE PEE POO POO" you would think it's just as good

>freak folk
good man
best genre
download.dianecluck.info/album/boneset

I just improv and keep the ones that are good.

wow really got me there faggot
go listen to some dylan you fuck

I try to find out what i want to talk about. Then come up with a melody. Then improvise the lyrics related to my idea until something catches. I'm much better at commimg up with melodies tho. My lyrics are always elementary.

ok, i see what you're saying.
I personally do both. First I try to plan things out and write lyrics that fit with the music.
Then when I inevitably get writer's block I switch to a more stream-of-consciousness approach where I write down everything that comes to mind, no matter how good it is or how well it fits with the music. Then I revise that stuff to fit in better and go back to the first step, using what I just wrote for additional inspiration

>listen to a guy that got a Nobel peace prize in literature as an example of shitty lyrics not detracting from music
wow really got me there faggot

Cold as ice
Cuts like a knife
I’m down on my knees

no i told you to listen to dylan because just like him you're an annoying cunt

>avoiding cliches
>not subverting them
Or my favorite
>artist makes you think he's gonna rhyme something
>super obvious and cliched rhyme
>Doesn't rhyme it at all or rhymes a completely different word that you didn't expect

>wahhhhh

yeah, the mentally feeble

But those are becoming cliches now too.
Every hipster on earth thinks they're clever and original when they do this.

My favorite band is Jamiroquai because they are actually musically tallented. The lyrics aren't bad but there is nothing 5deep6you. Narritive and film are by far better mediums for complex expression. Wordfaggot music like mountain goats or la dispute or bob dylan is cancer.

Shit, is that really the case? I'm not joking when I say this, I don't really listen to the latest p4kcore or a lot of music that hipsters listen to. I guess I wasn't aware indie rock bands were doing a lot of that.

>Wordfaggot
this is why society is broken

Hey man, thanks for the help.
One last question (probably), when writing, does some of what you write seem kinda cringy to you? Maybe it’s just because I’m holding myself to too high a standard, but when I look back at almost everything I write, I kinda hate it.

I read actual books for my words. Music is a dogshit medium for narrative. The peak of it is opera and that combines music with play. Your pop song lyrics are never of merit, ever. (period.)

Our culture as a whole is kind of getting too deep into irony and faux reality that sincerity is becoming a rarer and rarer thing.
People are afraid to express themselves honestly for the fear of being cringey or cliche, or having their feelings made fun of that they just do everything ironically so they feel safe from criticism, but it's getting pretty stale.

if you git gud you don't have to fear this

>pic related

I've hated every song I've written at some point in the process.
Some of it definitely has to do with how people hold themselves to a higher standard than others.
Eventually the period of hating the song will pass but a lot of the time certain parts of the song just have to go. I've scrapped whole songs and started over.
It's important to remember that 90% of what you write is going to be shit. This is true of any artist, you just don't get to hear the shitty stuff your favorite artists write.

you must be quite the intellectual

Assuming all the posts I’ve replied to are from the same user, thank you so much. You’ve been a huge help.

no problem
I've been thinking about this sort of thing a lot recently. helped me organize my own thoughts

Read poetry, Walt Whitman

Experiment w/ diff melodic intervals, and syllables changes

Its a different skill from writing essays etc. You have to get right down to the syllable and the vowel sound is critical for most of the words. You have to worry about emphasis and rise and fall, in a sense more difficult than poetry or perhaps any other form.

Flight of the conchords is funny because they ignore the standard way to fit words / use wrong ones

even if you're not reading poetry, try really paying attention to lyrics of the music you listen to and try to understand what it is you like about them

I feel the same way sometimes, but often I think it sounds that way to me while it doesn't to other people. I might know how long it took me to get a certain phrase right or to come up with the last line of a certain verse, but a listener would have no idea. They're more likely to take it all as it is.

Bump

stay away from vagaries. there's nothing wrong with earnest emotion as long as it's actually tied to a tangible subject. you're sad about a girl leaving you? name specific things you used to do with her instead of just harping on your feelings.

don't tell me what you feel. show me how you came to feel what you feel.

tell me the ins and outs of your situation with a fucked up metaphor. give me a weird narrative that's unlike anything else anyone could ever give me.

crack a joke. crack a skull. shit