Why are people against EU army?

Why are people against EU army?
We could be as powerful as USA

Because it's incapable as a deterrent unless you produce nukes

Stfu you fucking shill.
Power equals attention and attention means more problems. Get that into your shitfilled skull

>Why are people against EU army?
Because people from the countries of the EU don't feel connections with the other ones.

Tell to a French if he cares about Croatia, tell him if he even knows where is Croatia...

>We could be as powerful as USA
Do you mean the USA are a contestant? If yes, then again, a French feels more connected to Americans than Eastern Europeans and even Western Europeans.

we have no enemies & wars are not the way to mediate in a conflict

You dont need an Army the size of US for deterrent.
It's for protecting our waterways and for ensuring our interests in European neighbourhood (Africa and Middle East)

Because the EU is terrible and needs to die

>We could be as powerful as USA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The US military presence is Europe is very low compared to troops Europe has. Europe could defeat them in 30 minutes. But they act as a deterrent because the US is involved in the war against EU. You can't duplicate NATO unless Germany starts making nukes.

we have same GDP as USA, so no reason we couldn't have same size army.
We could be even more powerful if we ally with Russia

>Tell to
Ask a

>tell him
Ask him

Sorry

>we

>Do you mean the USA are a contestant?
Not necessary. But the recent US election showed that US citizens are not willing to play world police anymore, so we europeans have to look that we take care of our defense ourselves

You're not getting an army you fucking faggots

because we hate USA but we hate Europe even more, fuck europe and you all european niggers, die with pain fuckers

Because Hitler is not the leader of the EU!
Sadly.

We could easily make nukes if the situation demanded for that, we have the technology and the necessary economical power.
And France has nukes already

...

we have somebody better than hitler

Ok, are you ready to man it and pay for it?

They could technically be very powerful. But how many Germans would currently want to pay for nukes?

Why are krauts so enamoured with the EU? Why are they so brainwashed when EU propaganda is strictly illegal in schools etc?

>EU propaganda is not allowed in schools

Pffttthahahahahahaha
They praise the EU in our politics classes like it's the best thing ever

Apparently it's because we hate each other.

French hate everyone that isn't French.
Germany hates everyone to the east of themselves and has bitter resentment towards everyone else.
Spain, Italy, Greece etc hate the northern European countries for the humiliation they've been put through.
Etc. etc.

There may be individual europeans that feel connected to other europeans, be it from personal experience or because of their idealism, but it seems the general consensus is that we hate each other and need to fuck each other over at every opportunity.

Because its another step closer to a federal EU I guess

they are dumb and brainwashed. if the EU had its own army you would be less dependent on NATO and America in general. you'd finally stop being sissy castrated America's bitch. but some of the EU cunts (mostly small and irrelevant) oppose that idea, they enjoy having Yank cock deep inside their asses. pathetic losers.
i am personally 100% in favour of creating a strong and independent EU army.
what about you, guys?

>We
fuck off

>as powerful as the USA

sure, if the military acts in our interest and protects our economic assets and investments.
germany already pays a ton for a military that is completely useless, so why not pay a bit more for an army that actually does something?

Exactly. If Germany can fend for the EU then the EU army would be the thing. It's a greater economy than the US is.

>We could be as powerful as USA
With "powerful" you mean an Israel proxy? Because that's what the US army is.

And guess who is lobbying for the EU army: Jews.

Are you okay with dying for Poland or the Baltics? If not you, then your professional servicemen?

Theoretically they'd be doing this under NATO as well, but...

>could

Yeah if the likes of Germany pulls its finger out of its arse, much of your military equipment is either in storage or cannot be used. An EU army would just be France+. Regardless the UK will continue to work with its European allies even when we leave the EU, we'll be refuelling yours ships in the years to come.

>We could be even more powerful if we ally with Russia
Ivan please. russia is a corrupted totalitarian shithole. it would be a huge mistake for the EU to get closer with russia. if anything the EU and all the european countries should distance themselves from russia as much as possible and to impose even more sanctions on russia to make it even weaker

>fuck each other over at every opportunity.

Why go that far when we can just not give a shit?

Ok, say goodbye to your wirtschaftswunder 2.0 and budget surplus. A good army is an awfully expensive thing to have.

Sanctions against Russia are fine until Germany needs a pipeline

your post seems to imply a defensive war against russia.
That's not what we would need a big army for.
If Russia was really a big thread, we could just build a lot of nukes. But if we want to project power in Africa and middle east, we need to be able to fight terrorist there and grant military support to governments who are on our side

russia is a corrupted totalitarian shithole that has two things going for itself: natural resources and military
if we ally with russia we secure our access to natural resources and a military alliance increases our power projection and secures our eastern flank. I can only see benefits for europe

meh, i think if each of us contributed 2% gdp to a common european army, we could have easily a military that is more than enough for power projection in our neighbourhood

EU army? You mean the French army plus all the conscripted connan fodder from eastern Europe under German command. Geez i wonder why anyone would be against that.

why are you so negative?
you are the only powerful military in eu, other than france, and you left us ;_;

go back to ukraine

There are many reasons, but I'd say the most reasonable one is one that's already been observed: Austria-Hungary's multi-lingual, multi-cultural military had horrible morale, unit cohesion, and overall combat effectiveness
The only thing an EU Army would accomplish would be being a pretty little army with absolutely no use whatsoever, a drain of resources for the Union members and a waste of time for all soldiers involved, mainly because the EU has no enemies except the members of it

Why do you feel the need to compete with the US militarily?

>if we ally with russia we secure our access to natural resources and a military alliance increases our power projection and secures our eastern flank. I can only see benefits for europe

The US is spending 3,3% of GDP and is in large debt. The EU economies are incredibly indebted already. Italy for one can't afford more spending. France is cutting its military right now. You are free-riding NATO and hating the US for protecting you. Greece is spending on the army and look how it turned out for them.

What European countries need is a reform from the incredibly socialistic economies, not another grand project that's going to cost billions.

because doing peng peng sounds and using broomsticks doesn't entrust people on relying on it

yeah but USA has the ambition to project its power all around the globe.
We don't want such thing, we just want to keep our neighbourhood safe.

And considering that the likes of Trump get elected in USA, we no longer can rely on them for security

because taxpayers think it is too expensive
you are taxed to death anyway
so we have to do your job and keep europe and the world in peace for you

>muh nato is keeping us alive
kys

but your citizens aren't willing to support the imperialistic ambitions of your elites anymore.
That's why people vote for candidates like Trump who says america first

>we no longer can rely on them for security

Just pay your dues and stop pissing him off.

It is

because as long as we are NATO slaves there is no way to antagonize amerimongrels

true. but it is not imperialistic ambitions. you have to do something about the shitskins
and trump is a fucking retard who doesn't give a shit about america. but that's a different story

>we secure our access to natural resources
there is literally no need for that since russia's economy is based in selling natural resources to europe and russia is the one who is the most interested in it.
not to mention most of russia's military is outdated soviet crap that barely works (just look at russia's ONLY aircraft carrier, it looks like it'd fall apart any moment). russia is a paper tiger when it comes to real war but if the EU allies with russia, the latter might try to destabilise the EU to make it less stable and easier to control. the EU should never ever ally sneaky dictatorships like russia

The EU is a political and economic bloc, not a military alliance. We have NATO for that. Your government is just pushing the EU army so hard because of the criticism its getting in NATO, which to be fair is valid though not to the degree Trumps taking it.

he is right though. but the EU can get rid of that cuckoldry by creating its own strong military

come on, you guys are 56% and give us shit about brown people? really?

>and trump is a fucking retard who doesn't give a shit about america. but that's a different story
he is a symptom, but the cause is that many americans feel left behind by globalism and want a more protectionist/isolated country.
And we who so far have dependet on USA for security need do see the signs and react accordingly.

>Just pay your dues and stop pissing him off.
you really wanna be an usa vassal state?

>Dues
We're not extorting countries

The 2% NATO meme is their spending on their OWN military, not on NATO

It's a guideline, not a rule for membership

I don't see any EU tax money coming here bud, but we've got millions of US tax going out to Europe so...

Russia has the second strongest military in the world (with USA beeing the undisputed number 1).
The conflict in Syria has shown that Russia can project its power like no other country, other than USA.
And sure, your aircraft carrier is shit, but only because russia has no access to a warm water habour, so it makes no sense to invest in a strong navy.

> but if the EU allies with russia, the latter might try to destabilise the EU to make it less stable and easier to control
i doubt this would happen, since as you said, Russia relies on economic ties with EU and it would be bad idea to piss EU off

Beats being an EU vassal state. Atleast there is still some stigma to being called a socialist in the US, Western Europe embraces it.

I know

Tito told Stalin to fuck off, the USSR didn't do shit. Go fuck yourself with your Russian boogeyman.

but nato is a defensive alliance.
if we want to project power in modern world, we need another organization. And since we are all membrs of a common economic bloc, and have similar interests, it would make sense to have a common army

I'm kinda conflicted about the idea of an eu army, and I'm not sure it would be even possible for the French army to merge with a foreign army. I guess the same goes for all countries so... yeah

do not reply to nIKIta you silly

I hope you are not implying USA defends Europe out of pure alturism.
Sure, we don't pay you direct tributes, but you get many benefits like using European countries as military bases, or soft power over our countries.

How does it beat that? Within EU, you are a citizen with equeal rights to Germans or French. You are able to live in any country you desire and can get into political office and a position of power.
None of it is true if you are an US vassal

so you don't understand the difference between latinos and muslim terrorist scum?

finally Germany is going to complete the mission for centurie.

you have way more black people than we do, so lets not split hair

>with equeal rights to Germans or French

Lol, tell that to French or German police.

>you are able to live in any country you desire

They are all full of socialism and shitskins. Atleast Americans are still somewhat proud of their country (as can be seen by electing Trump).

I can think of 2 maybe 3 countries in the EU that need to project power beyond their borders and all of them have the capabilities to do so. If the German state want to project power then its up to them to build aircraft carriers and lease bases oversea.

>The conflict in Syria has shown that Russia can project its power like no other country, other than USA.
not really. it's just that russia is the only country that was interested in intervening in that war since syrian government is the last chance for russia to have any influence in the middle east. the war in syria hurts russia's economy quite hard already, and nobody knows how the war will end. russia might lose everything.
>Russia relies on economic ties with EU and it would be bad idea to piss EU off
russia is already trying to destabilise the EU by supporting and funding people and parties like national front, afd and etc. everyone knows that. but since the EU isn't russia's ally russia doesn't have that much access to inner european circles. but if the EU and russia get closer it would change and russia might hurt the EU even more

It would be idiotic to waste money on whiners like you out of "altruism"
>Many benefits
Such as?
Having a military presence in Europe only is useful for campaigns in the Middle East, which has become so incredibly unpopular (Excusing ISIS) that many consider having a foot in Europe to be a net loss, which might be why many in Washington are toying with the notion of dissolving NATO

No expert but I think that might be because Tito didn't try to challenge Stalin, just merely disregarded Stalin's pretension
And so you may bring up Tito, but I play my trump card of Hungary

>If the German state want to project power then its up to them to build aircraft carriers and lease bases oversea.

Germans can't do that, that would be warlike and aggressive!!!

yugaslavia as a whole was stronger than those tiny eastern european countries that we have now. remember what had happened to czechoslovakia in 1968? the same will happen to latvia, lithuania, estonia, bulgaria and probably romania if nato ceases to exist

currently, Europe has a huge problem with refugee crisis and muslim terrorists.
If we had a proper military, we could defeat ISIS and other such radical groups, and we would have enough power projection in africa to convice certain countries to take our refugees
We suffer because despite all our wealth, we have no stick to back up our demands

>If we had a proper military, we could defeat ISIS and other such radical groups

They didn't really like each other

What does Putin gain from invading Bulgaria?

>not really. it's just that russia is the only country that was interested in intervening in that war since syrian government is the last chance for russia to have any influence in the middle east. the war in syria hurts russia's economy quite hard already, and nobody knows how the war will end. russia might lose everything.
France tried to intrevene in Lybia and failed, they needed to call USA for help. Russias success in Syria is by no means to be taken for granted, and it greatly increased Russias prestiges as a miltary power. Many EU countries are now talking about cooperating with Russia in Syria.

>russia is already trying to destabilise the EU by supporting and funding people and parties like national front, afd and etc. everyone knows that.
Russia is not some evil power, it inteferes in EU elections because if it feels threatened by EU. If Russia and EU were allies, Russia obiviously wouldn't try to damage its allies.

The main thing is we must protect Estonia.

I dont understand why you are so angry.
If you dont want to spend money on "whiners" like me, you should be happy that I support an EU army, which would make us rely less on you

err, what are we arguing about again?
blacks can chimp out on a local level
but they are not a national security threat.
you kinda changed the topic and turned it into a racial discussion.
your thread is about needing the army to protect national security. and you are baiting me with le 56% meme.

Why do you want to be powerful, Hans?

Because we have nothing in common. Imagine a scenario like having to fight and die for the greek Cypriots vs Turkey and the turkish cypriots.

Not very tempting.

didn't you start this side-discussion with
>you have to do something about the shitskins

>We

...

What's the point of merging when we already have alliances which are currently in affect and we continue to work together and cooperate in militarily exercises.

to defend ourselves, and to make the world a better place

...

From whom?

because it would be much more efficient if we spend the same amount of money on one armey, rather on 28.
It would eliminate a whole lot of redundancy

Its not an issue of having a proper army, it simply a complicated sitution. We cant go into Syria with out pissing the Russians off and that where ISIS and friends are hanging out. Iraq is different we could go there but no european nation wants to recommit to that shitshow short of a hand full of SF.

more access to the black sea and a land border with serbia

>Angry
lol
>you should be happy that I support an EU army
I think it's been established that I don't like the idea of a government (Or economic union for that matter) wasting money on pointless endeavors
Unless you have something to use that army for it isn't worth a damn
What's the reason for making one other than """power projection"""
>which would make us rely less on you
You don't rely on us at all

currently, we are facing great challenges of islamic terrorism and refugee crisis.
I think we cant solve those problems without beeing able to project power to africa and middle east
who knows which other threats await us in future?

France asked us for help in Syria, and we obliged. The RAF have ended up doing more bombings than the French airforce.

but that's what you are wondering about too?
having an army to defend you against shitskin terrorism? how is it a side discussion?

Austria-Hungary

I don't think Russia would have anything against EU troops in Syria as long as we dont try to topple Assad.
When we have the common goal to fight ISIS, I am sure they would welcome our contributions.

I just find it really ridicilous that such a wealthy union like EU is completely toothless even against such a weak organization as ISIS, and we have to let Russia and USA do our job

>Unless you have something to use that army for it isn't worth a damn
To protect our ships in international water
To protect our investments in african countries
To fight terrorism in middle eastern countries

Those are just a few reasons EU would need an army