Is this the best Rock album of the 90's?

Is this the best Rock album of the 90's?

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Be Here Now is better.

*blocks your path*

No but some might say might be the best rock song

no

No. Probably top ten though, along with Definitely Maybe

Top 5 for sure.

What you said pal?

Again... Wut you said pal?

Siamese Dream like top 50 nigga.

Top 15 at most nigga. Alice In Chains' Dirt pisses on that album

I would say top 20. I enjoyed the whole Britpop fad while it lasted. I just think What's the Story is belitled for its overproduction and wall of sound. Definitely Maybe is better imo.

Definitely Maybe has a raw sound, and it's aged better than the overproduction of Morning Glory

>Oasis
>raw sound

>two guitars, bass, drums, cranked up full blast
>not raw
kek

I would say it is one of the best rock albums of the 90s, along with these:

...

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smashing pumpkins HAHHAHAHA

go back to your nin threads dweeb

m'lads

Siamese dream is top 3

*kicks oasis into the gutter*

Yeah, it is. Nobody could come close to the peak the Gallaghers hit around 95. A damn near perfect album.

...

the instrumental for supersonic is the GOAT autopilot song

patrician although dog man star is more coherent as an album imo

Siamese Dream
The Holy Bible
Dog Man Star
Adam & Eve
This is Hardcore

Just to name 5 that are vastly better.

>I like them more, so they are better
Not how it works

No, sorry.

This

Oasis are literally the pleb britrock option

Anyone with a sense of taste know its Suede, Pulp, Mansun

>Anyone with a sense of taste know its Suede, Pulp, Mansun
Why? Please muse music theory to answer the question

Not nearly the best of the decade, but Where You Been predy gud

n o

This, also this.

thats not the colour and the shape

literally nobody knows oasis outside of wonderwall kys

*clears throat*

Wrong

this is the only correct answer in this thread. any other answers just prove youre a pleb

Immediately kill yourself

these

Come at me

Another mention for Holy Bible as well
Also this guy has fantastic taste

It's not even the best Oasis album of the 90s.

Patricians

Pleb

Not even the best britpop album.

this is closer, but I'd say pic related is the best. The Holy Bible is about the same level but not britpop technically

this guy has the right one.

based

mah patrician. Tool takes so much shit but this album is toweringly good.

this unequivocally

...

>there are really people this ignorant

its literally this

quintessential 90s guitar rock album

Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory are both relatively immortal but Morning Glory requires the context of Definitely Maybe, I think. If you put them both together then you can say that Morning Glory is the best album of the 90s. But in the absence of Definitely Maybe I feel like something is missing from Morning Glory. You need to be aware that it's their second album, that there were big expectations that were exceeded, etc.

Sorry but Siamese Dream, like all Smashing Pumpkins albums, is way too hit-and-miss to be considered at the upper echelon. They produced some great singles but they always struggled to produce a great album.

>Siamese Dream
>hit and miss
Nigger, get the fuck out of here. That album is literally flawless from start to finish, not to mention it's best songs aren't singles.

You sound like one of those people who always whines that the dEeP cUtZ never get the recognition they deserve. The most famous Pumpkins album wasn't even produced well. It's like a wall of mud.

Finally an user who isn't a fucking idiot

>"it's perfect"
>look at the track listing
>i literally can't remember how a single one of these songs sounds except for Cherub Rock and Today
>i only remember Cherub Rock because of how bad the lyrics in the chorus were
>mfw i own this album

>The most famous Pumpkins album wasn't even produced well. It's like a wall of mud.
I agree, Mellon Collie was a little muddy

Luckily Siamese Dream sounds fantastic

Have you listened to the Siamese Dream remaster?

Sounds like your problem for being an unmusical pleb, not the album's

thats because youre a dullard pleb

The one mastered by Bob Ludwig, the top mastering engineers around today?

Yep, it sounds great. Why?

Definitely Maybe is better

>mfw i remember every note of around half of the songs from mellon collie
>mfw if they had cut out the garbage and made it one disc then it would have been a far more memorable album than siamese dream

The mellon collie Ludwig remaster sounds great

>he thinks there's garbage on Mellon Collie
kek
Yes, he made it a bit better.

There is though, MCIS is probably the most unnecessarily long album in the history of music.

not him but absolutely not.

I wouldn't cut a single song off MCIS. The album works because its scope.

See Every song is great. It's not the album's fault you have a short attention span.

It doesn't though, the album just does not work as a cohesive whole in the way Siamese Dream did. There's a lot of great material on it that could have well made for their greatest album but it's held-back by all the awkward moments in between.

Which is another thing. There are WAY BETTER songs on the MCIS demos that didn't make the final cut. I don't know how Stumbeline, Ugly or Meladori Magpie didn't make it but Tonight, Tonight did.

>It doesn't though, the album just does not work as a cohesive whole in the way Siamese Dream did
Why not?
>all the awkward moments in between.
Like what?
>I don't know how Stumbeline didn't make the cut
Time to stop posting.

Well as explained in that post
>Why not?
Because of all the awkward moments in between
>Like what?
Like Tonight, Tonight
>Time to stop posting.
Right, I'm an idiot.

>Suede used to be managed by Ricky Gervais

what le fuck

>Well as explained in that post
No you just stated what your opinion was. You didn't explain *how* and *why* it doesn't work. Try again?
>Because of all the awkward moments in between
Like what?
>Like Tonight, Tonight
What's awkward about it? it's one of the band's most beloved songs, a song that is often played at weddings. That doesn't seem awkward
>Right, I'm an idiot.
You never even bothered listening to disc 2, did you?

>No you just stated what your opinion was. You didn't explain *how* and *why* it doesn't work. Try again?
>Like what?
Because I think the album is more ambitious than it was able to live up to and this is mostly caused by it being unnecessarily long. What this means is that it can be boring, not entirely due to the weak tracks (e.g Tonight, Tonight - Muzzle - Tales of a Scorched Earth) but also decent tracks that are just superfluous (e.g Love, Zero, Bullet with Butterfly Wings) . There were a lot of great, great songs that didn't make the final cut of Siamese Dream (e.g Set the Ray to Jerry, Blew Away, Meladori Magpie once again) and that's good because Siamese Dream was just as long as it needed to be. It never feels like a chore to listen to. Then there's also the weak tracks, I just don't think these songs sound good and I don't enjoy listening to them.

>What's awkward about it? it's one of the band's most beloved songs, a song that is often played at weddings. That doesn't seem awkward
1. Weddings are probably one of the most awkward places on the planet.
2. And a lot of people love the Machina era, it's still not good.
3. Being upfront I'm very biased against happy Smashing Pumpkins songs, I would rarely enjoy them and I prefer Billy's songs about being depressed. No coincidence that Siamese Dream is 100% about that exact thing. I also think the orchestra part just wasn't a good choice, in fact that's probably my biggest problem with that song. The instrumental from the demos is pretty decent, but for the above reasons I don't like the finished product.

>You never even bothered listening to disc 2, did you?
Dude, if I've bothered to listen to the demos and B-sides of course I've listened to disc 2. I like MCIS, I just don't love it the way I love Siamese Dream.

>this is mostly caused by it being unnecessarily long.
Why do you think it's unnecessarily long? This implies you have an objective measure of what the length should be. What is that? Why?
>e.g Tonight, Tonight - Muzzle - Tales of a Scorched Earth)
These are all great tracks. What's weak about them?
>There were a lot of great, great songs that didn't make the final cut of Siamese Dream (e.g Set the Ray to Jerry, Blew Away, Meladori Magpie once again)
kek
>1. Weddings are probably one of the most awkward places on the planet.
Why? Have you ever been in love?
>2. And a lot of people love the Machina era,
Not really.
>Being upfront I'm very biased against happy Smashing Pumpkins songs
Why don't you like happy songs? What's wrong with you?
>if I've bothered to listen to the demos and B-sides of course I've listened to disc 2.
OK but you said Stumbleine didn't make the album. But there it is, track 8 of the second disc. That's kind of a big blunder, sin't it?

>Why do you think it's unnecessarily long? This implies you have an objective measure of what the length should be. What is that? Why?
I listened to it and got bored at many points. That's more or less the most objective measure of an album being unnecessarily long that there could be. I should remind you that I do like MCIS and I'm not trying to convince you to hate it, I'm just saying these are the reasons I wouldn't consider it their best album.

>These are all great tracks. What's weak about them?
They don't sound good in my ear.

>kek
Those are tunes and half though. You're just being contrary now.

>Why? Have you ever been in love?
Because they're full of drunk people and drunk people are just awkward.
I don't know, maybe.

>Not really.
But they do? An awful lot of people love those albums despite their mixed reception.

>Why don't you like happy songs? What's wrong with you?
I do like happy songs, I just don't usually like happy songs from this particular band. imo Billy Corgan is just not as good at writing about that kind of thing as he is at writing about bad things.

>OK but you said Stumbleine didn't make the album. But there it is, track 8 of the second disc. That's kind of a big blunder, sin't it?
Right, and as said I'm an idiot.

>I listened to it and got bored
Why did you get bored? Did you listen to the lryics and chord changes? What about the drumming? There are a lot of things to keep you interested.
>That's more or less the most objective measure
"I didn't like it" is not objective.
>They don't sound good in my ear.
Why not?
>You're just being contrary now.
I am being contrary because I think literal album rejects (twice over for some of them) are sub-par?
>I don't know, maybe.
You've never felt love, have you?
>But they do?
Again, not really. Do you remember the backlash when machina was first released?
>I just don't usually like happy songs from this particular band.
Like Luna or Sweet Sweet or Silverfuck or Spaceboy or Mayanoaise or Hummer or Rocket?
>Billy Corgan is just not as good at writing about that kind of thing as he is at writing about bad things.
Also most of MCIS is all sad songs

>There are a lot of things to keep you interested.
Supposedly but clearly that didn't work. It's supposed to be engaging and I was not engaging with it.

> is not objective.
Yes, now you're catching on. It's not objective at all is it?

>Why not?
Well that's a very complicated question that probably has more to do with my entire life's experience and general philosophy of life than it does to do with Billy's songwriting skills.

>I am being contrary
Yes, just because something didn't make the finished product doesn't make it bad and conversely the fact that something did doesn't make it good. Unless you're trying to say the artists tastes concerning their own works are objective and must be accepted by the audience, which is just flatly not true.

>You've never felt love, have you?
Are you trying to convince me MCIS is 10 or bully me?

>Do you remember the backlash when machina was first released?
No because I was two years old when Machina was released. But I do know that it has a 66 on Metacritic, clearly more than a few people like it.

>Like Luna or Sweet Sweet or Silverfuck or Spaceboy or Mayanoaise or Hummer or Rocket?
I wouldn't consider those "happy songs". Hummer in particular is a fine example of dark lyrics juxtaposed on more upbeat music. The only one I think you could really make a case for being a happy song is Luna but even then it's no coincidence that it is the closing track of the album, there is tension and then there is release, like in a story. Were it not for the fact that it's the closing track it would be one of the ones I'd say should have been swapped out for one of the unused tracks.

That said those (with the exception of Mayonnaise which is the best) are among the weaker songs from SD. Sweet Sweet in particular, which would be on about the same tier as Geek USA.

>Also most of MCIS is all sad songs
And most of MCIS is good. It just could have been better.

>No because I was two years old when Machina was released

I'm 20 now. Are we not allowed to talk about music that was made before we were adults or something?

>Supposedly
Then explain some of the lryics and chord changes. Prove you were paying attention
>It's not objective at all is it?
But you just said it was. Which is it?
>that probably has more to do with my entire life's experience and general philosophy of life than it does to do with Billy's songwriting skills.
So you admit the album is great, and you just have a negative bias?
>just because something didn't make the finished product doesn't make it bad
Right, it makes it less good than the album tracks.
>must be accepted by the audience
You don't take artist intent into account? That sounds foolish.
>Are you trying to convince me MCIS is 10 or bully me?
It would explain why you can't properly evaluate the album
>No because I was two years old when Machina was released.
So, you don't know what you are talking about then
>Hummer in particular is a fine example of dark lyrics
How is that dark? Explain it
>It just could have been better.
Not possible if it's already perfect.
You can talk about it, but it's obvious you don't understand it

I'm not gonna white knight for Billy Corgan, but
>not remembering Mayonaise

Good

1/2
>Then explain some of the lryics and chord changes. Prove you were paying attention
No, it's 3 in the morning and I've already spent two hours defending my position on MCIS. And on that note this is probably going to be the last reply I make unless this thread is up in a couple of hours.

>But you just said it was. Which is it?
No I didn't, I said "That's more or less the most objective measure of an album being unnecessarily long that there could be.". If I need to explain what this means it means no, it is not objective and objectivity does not matter because there is no objective way of quantifying music. The most objective way there is is whether or not you personally think it sounds good, and I do not think Tonight, Tonight sounds good.

>Right, it makes it less good than the album tracks.
Why?

>So you admit the album is great, and you just have a negative bias?
No, I say the album is good by my tastes and some aspects of it don't suit my tastes. This is what taste is, it's not a matter of MCIS being shit and you just having a positive bias, it's a matter of it being right to your taste.

This is

>You don't take artist intent into account?
It's worth considering, but it's not indisputable. Once again music is not objective, the only person who has a final say on what something means or whether something is good is ones self. I happen to think SD would have been better if some unused tracks were included in place of ones that made the cut. The fact that they artist thought otherwise doesn't really change my opinion on this at all.

Though there are times when the artists intent makes the difference. As I said I think Luna is one of the weaker songs but I do think it's the best choice for the closing track from the thematic point of view given what I think the album as a cohesive whole is supposed to be about. As individual songs Blew Away for instance is better than Luna by a clean mile, but it wouldn't fit in Luna's slot as well as Luna does.

>you can't properly evaluate the album
So is your opinion objective and proper while mine isn't because your life experiences might be different to mine? Do you know what "objective means"

>you don't know what you are talking about then
There are precisely zero people alive who were born before the 20th century. Does this mean no one can talk about music made before 1900? No, because that would be retarded.

>How is that dark?
Because, probably above and beyond all other songs on SD, it is deeply bittersweet. What I would interpret the lyrics to mean is that Billy has come to know what it feels like to be a fulfilled person that can accept themselves but can't fully realize that as a permanent part of his life despite having a clear awareness of what he wants and needs. In this the lyrics are largely divided into three mood-shits, what his life was like and how he wanted to get away from it, how it feels to liberate yourself from such a situation, and a consideration of whether any such liberation is permanent. It strikes me as a song written to himself rather than to anyone else.

The Beefheart and Diamanda Gslas influences on this are fuckin great.

>I've already spent two hours defending my position on MCIS
You haven't done very well. Everything just boils down to "because I don't like happy music!" which isn't an argument
>the most objective way there is is whether or not you personally think it sounds good
That's not objective at all. That is subjective. I think you are confused.
>Why?
Less substance and does not fit as a cohesive whole of the album.
>I say the album is good by my tastes and some aspects of it don't suit my tastes.
So now you are backpedaling
>I happen to think SD would have been better if some unused tracks were included in place
The inferior ones? Because you don't like happy music with orchestras? That seems like poor music criticism.
>because your life experiences might be different to mine
What life experiences?
>Do you know what "objective means"
Do you? You also admitted you are an idiot. Maybe you should look it up and check.
>Does this mean no one can talk about music made before 1900?
You can talk about it, but it's obvious you don't understand it
>What I would interpret the lyrics to mean...
How so? Please show us your literary analysis, with citations

Objective 90s Rock Ranking Coming Through (1 album per band)

Excludes metal i.e. Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Tool

1. Definitely Maybe
2. Dirt
3. Nevermind
4. Superunknown
5. Siamese Dream
6. Above
7. Use Your Illusion
8. QotSA S/T
9. Loveless
10. Smash
11. Angel Dust
12. Ritual De Lo Habitual
13. Core
14. Welcome to Sky Valley
15. Ten

>excludes metal
>7. Use Your Illusion

>Guns 'n' Roses
>Metal

...

it's not even the best rock album in the beatles

The true best rock album of the 90s coming through

>it s-says so on wikipedia!1
dude

youtube.com/watch?v=-1yzoiUIGGs

Yes, so?