Ban guns for people on the terror watch list but make it so that to put you on the terror watch list the FBI has to take you to court and have a jury decide to put you on the list.
Unlike crimes the trial information would be kept secret so as to not affect the person's ability to find a job since they haven't actually done anything wrong yet.
What if you shove it up your faggot ass Fuck boy?
I wouldn't want isis to come after me
Would be too hard and time consuming, and expensive, to do it. Watch lists must be dynamic and unilateral.
Preventing someone to exercise a right because he is in a watchlist is just stupid. They should instead monitor people in the watch lists that buy guns so they go to some kind of secondary, high alert watch list to be watched very closely.
The terror watchlist is way too big. This would just make the problem worse by letting the people who really should be watched slip through the cracks.
Fbpb
If it's that big how can you justify banning gun sales to people on it?
That's what both presidential candidates are saying they'll do. Both trump and hillary.
How big is this list? Is everyone on Sup Forums on it? Is this just an attempt by the government to disarm a large portion of the population?
In 2014 handguns killed 5500 people in the USA, rifles only killed 370. How come the government and the controlled media only talk about banning rifles? How come nobody talks about banning hand guns when they commit most murders and are used in robberies and rapes?
Is the government preparing for a major economic collapse that will lead to civil unrest and could potentially lead to civil war?
If you commit a crime or intend to then you go to regular court. If not you keep your rights. The idea that a white supremacist or a black panther drilling in a racially segregated militia is somehow less entitled to his opening and ability to organize for defense is the same argument to disarm someone because they believe the government could be wrong on an issue. It would be a built in disarmament for any group openly saying they would resist disarmament attempts now or in the future. Secret courts and double standards are straight out of the class warfare playbook. If people weren't largely uneducated on issues they vote for a meritocracy would impose itself, but for now a narritive and a party line vote trump fact due to ignorance. The right buzz words could make anything fly.
TL;DR: ir would be abused. Also, get fucked commie.
Any background check without private sale loophole equals mandatory gun registration. They will know where all the guns are
wow, its almost as if you should have to be put on trial and found guilty without a reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers before they are able to take your rights away.
The government needs probable cause to put someone on any watchlist that infringes upon an individual right. If someone has given the FBI probable cause to suspect them of terrorism, then a (potentially temporary) ban on them buying a gun is a valid balancing of interests. If the FBI abuses its power and puts too many people on the watchlist, then civil rights groups will sue on behalf of the affected parties and the FBI will have to prove they had probable cause.
People far smarter than you facilitate the procedural aspects of justice system, and it works the way it does for a reason.
>What is being arrested
Surprise faggot, you can get thrown in jail without a trial. The gubment just took your right to freedom away without being judged by a jury of your peers. Why can they do this? It's called probable cause. Allows temporary suspension of a right in the interest of the public good. Same thing applies to watchlists. This isn't hard to understand.
so probable cause is enough to take away someone's second amendment?
Except being put on the list is not a temporary measure before a trail. It is Permanente. Their is no due process, no appeals, no evidence, no rule of law. The reason you are put on the list is secret, the process is secret, and their is basically no way off other than the government deciding to take you off for also secret reasons.
No fucking shit it is. Your right to freedom is more important than your right to have muh AR. The only question is length. I'm not going to explain all of constitutional law to you but if you want to learn about it look up the strict scrutiny test. If the government banned terror suspects from owning guns for as long as the FBI had probable cause, it would almost certainly pass judicial review
Yes because the list doesn't mean anything at this point you retard. It's just internal surveillance data. If a law gets passed forbidding gun ownership for those on any such list, the process that gets you on (and off) would need to withstand court scrutiny
So what youre saying is they have to put you on trial before they can take your rights away?
... You serious?
I said the PROCESS would need to withstand court scrutiny; the process being the FBI's determination of terrorist suspects and removal of people once they're cleared of suspicion within a reasonable time. If they only put people on the list with probable cause, then the process would pass constitutional muster.
If this happened, and the FBI had probable cause to suspect you of terrorism and put you on the list, the govt can take your guns away without a trial, until you get off the list. You would never go on trial.
Sage
SAGE
Op I think you are onto something
The problem with the no fly list and the terror watch list is that there is no trial. It's wrong that someone suspect of terrorism could buy a rifle and body armor, but theres nothing stopping the lizard people from putting you on there for no reason, removing your right without a trial.
Gun control in America isn't about preventing gun crime, it's about feel good measures meant to secure votes and get re-elected. Very few gun laws in America have any tangible effect. Prior to the closure of the machine gun registry a total of 3 Homicides had every occurred with legally acquired machine guns. Machine guns are scary though so when those Dems wanted to get more feel good votes they closed the machine gun registry forever, preventing any new machine guns intended for civilian sale from ever being legally manufactured ever again. High capacity mags, barrel shrouds, bayonet lugs and pistol grips are all easily visible and therefore scary and bannable. When's the last time you heard about someone committing murder with a bayonet?
I know what you said, nigger.
They cannot suspend your rights indefinitely without a trial. Period. They can suspend them temporarily but they cant suspend them forever on probable cause.
No shit? That's why I said to be constitutional they would have to show the process removes people from the list within a reasonable time.
Why the fuck are you even arguing about suspending rights indefinitely? Watchlists generally aren't permanent, and if there was a watchlist that prohibited gun ownership it DEFINITELY wouldn't be permanent.
The fact that the government can't suspend your rights indefinitely without a trial is a common sense statement that has nothing to do with the thread.
>reading comprehension
Thats literally what i was saying from the beginning faggot. If theyve got enough probable cause to suspend your rights and put you on a list, why not just arrest you and put you on trial?